John
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Re:Sonar X1 Expanded
2011/09/21 15:37:11
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N-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o...... tell me that isn't the defintion, I wanna be a fanboi, I do, I do, I do - but I've reported bugs so I can't be? Me too. Only because there is dispute is that word being used. I will meet you half way but I wont swim that far, I will use a boat. We can march on CW together. A bit wet and you weary but march we will. 
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FastBikerBoy
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SteveStrummerUK
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Re:Sonar X1 Expanded
2011/09/21 15:43:02
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Jonbouy
Jonbouy
SteveStrummerUK
Serious question...
Will I have to purchase 'Expanded' to get a scrollable Pro-Channel?
Yes, so I was told a few pages back by Brandon.
edit: see this post.
http://forum.cakewalk.com/fb.ashx?m=2391906
*A noise traversing bump for Strummy's question.*
Thanks JB, I missed that somehow. That's a real kick in the nuts for someone who's eyesight means I have to operate my 24" monitor at 1600 x 900 instead of it's full resolution of 1920 x 1080  Can I pay a few dollars for a 'scroll' module  Why on earth did anyone think not having vertical scrolling in the first place was a good idea? It's there in the Console View and it works perfectly for me.
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John
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Re:Sonar X1 Expanded
2011/09/21 15:55:28
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Bub
FastBikerBoy
The whole reason people buy the Producer version is to get all the effects and synth's. Now if you don't want the Pro Channel, you have to give up everything else. How is that right to us?
I think it's disgusting personally, I'm so mad I'm going to start swimming across the Atlantic to Boston tonight to complain. I'll see you all in about 6 months, now where are my swimming trunks..............
I think John had them last ... check with him.
Now that is funny. LOL.
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Jonbouy
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Re:Sonar X1 Expanded
2011/09/21 15:55:48
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Why on earth did anyone think not having vertical scrolling in the first place was a good idea? It's there in the Console View and it works perfectly for me. A/ So they could sell an Xpansion later on? B/ Bad design in the first place?
"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles. In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
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Jim Roseberry
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Re:Sonar X1 Expanded
2011/09/21 16:00:48
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No, Fanboi's are the guys who tell you something is great even though they know it's not. Fanboi's are the guys who say, "Works great here, never had a single problem." when they know there is a list of over 200 bugs ... that's what a Fanboi is. Do you fall in to that category? I can dig up some quotes from you if you need your memory joggled.
Hi Bub, I want to approach this so as not to start (restart) an argument...  The discussion about X1 has turned the way of discussing Politics or Religion. You've experienced problems with X1... and I'm not discounting this... But that doesn't mean that all users are experiencing (all) the same problems/symptoms. ie: I've never had the issue with Pro Channel turning itself on/off. It's clear to me that your machine is a factor/variable in at least some problems. ie: Your experience with higher CPU use with Guitar Rig While I do understand the frustration, I think you need to allow the possibility that some folks might be using X1 successfully. I've been using X1 (without major issues) since the night it was released. I can show you video of X1 running a full mix of a live 24-track recording at a 64-sample ASIO buffer size (no dropouts, crashes, glitches, ProChannel turning on/off, etc). I realize this doesn't address/solve the issues you've experienced... But it is a legitimate end-user's exprience. I think this can be said (legitimately) without being a "fanboi", without being a liar, and without attacking those that have issues. If anything positive is going to come from all this discussion, we need to leave the emotional side out (from both extremes). I'm not saying that's an easy thing to do... I hope your issues are ultimately resolved. If I can help with your machine, let me know. I also hope that (ultimately) we can all discuss Sonar X1 without the conversation ending in conflict. That's the part of all this that does get old (and I'm sure that's true no matter what your experience/opinion). BTW, I like the idea of expansion options... But I'm not particularly crazy about expansion options being tied exclusively to the Pro Channel. In the same way I'm not crazy about the classic compressors being tied to Guitar Rig.
post edited by Jim Roseberry - 2011/09/21 16:11:26
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Elffin
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Re:Sonar X1 Expanded
2011/09/21 16:17:11
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Will Notion be invited to add a score notation module?.....  I generally like the idea of Pro channel.... getting to be as flexible as possible would be quite cool.... Even a simple notepad module could be handy.... (which links to the text option in track inspector)
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Bub 
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Re:Sonar X1 Expanded
2011/09/21 16:19:53
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Jim Roseberry
Hi Bub,
I want to approach this so as not to start (restart) an argument...
You won't get an argument from me because I can have a normal conversation with you. ;) The discussion about X1 has turned the way of discussing Politics or Religion.
Yes, I agree. You've experienced problems with X1... and I'm not discounting this...
But that doesn't mean that all users are experiencing (all) the same problems/symptoms.
I agree. ie: I've never had the issue with Pro Channel turning itself on/off.
It's clear to me that your machine is a factor/variable in at least some problems.
We're talking about the Pro Channel, so lets just tackle that one and skip the Guitar Rig thing-a-ma-bobber. :) Do you think the problem with the Pro Channel is PC related or Sonar related? I'm going somewhere with this so be careful how you answer this. ;)
"I pulled the head off Elvis, filled Fred up to his pelvis, yaba daba do, the King is gone, and so are you."
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Bub
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Re:Sonar X1 Expanded
2011/09/21 16:21:32
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Jim Roseberry
BTW,
I like the idea of expansion options...
But I'm not particularly crazy about expansion options being tied exclusively to the Pro Channel.
In the same way I'm not crazy about the classic compressors being tied to Guitar Rig.
That's exactly what I've been saying all along. Thanks for backing me on that.
"I pulled the head off Elvis, filled Fred up to his pelvis, yaba daba do, the King is gone, and so are you."
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thomasabarnes
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Re:Sonar X1 Expanded
2011/09/21 16:22:49
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John T
Bub
most people don't have skin as thick as I
This magical incantation just transformed my entire being into a massive raised eyebrow.
ROTFLOL!
 "It's not a song till it touches your heart. It's not a song till it tears you apart!" Lyrics of Amy Grant. SONAR Platinum X64 (jBridge), Windows 10 Pro 64-Bit, Core i7 990X Extreme Edition Processor 3.46 GHz 6 Cores, Gigabyte EX58-UD5, Crucial Ballistix 24GB 1333MHz DDR3 @1333 MHz, TASCAM UH-7000, Behringer X-Touch, EVGA GTX 980TI Superclocked 6GB, 1TB Samsung EVO 850 SSD, 150GB, 320GB, 1TB 7200rpm HDDs
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Bub
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Re:Sonar X1 Expanded
2011/09/21 16:47:46
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Bub
Jim Roseberry
ie: I've never had the issue with Pro Channel turning itself on/off.
It's clear to me that your machine is a factor/variable in at least some problems.
We're talking about the Pro Channel, so lets just tackle that one and skip the Guitar Rig thing-a-ma-bobber. :)
Do you think the problem with the Pro Channel is PC related or Sonar related? I'm going somewhere with this so be careful how you answer this. ;)
Well, he went offline before he saw this post so I'll just finish my thought and let him respond if he wants to ... 1. Keep in mind I didn't bring this up ... so I'm on the defense here and not being argumentative, I'm just giving my side of the story. 2. There are other people here who are seeing problems with the PC that are using machines professionally built. One is Danny Danzi and he's using a Studio Cat DAW. I have no doubt whatsoever that Danny's machine is running 100% and there is nothing wrong with it, which is why it's so frustrating when people come here and tell me it's my DAW. We all know it's not when 99.99% of the problems I've had have been resolved by patches and are being worked on for future patches. If that seems confrontation I'm sorry, but I'm not going to let anyone come here and tell me I have problems with my self built DAW when their professional built DAW is exhibiting the same exact problem I'm having. You can understand that I hope? :)
"I pulled the head off Elvis, filled Fred up to his pelvis, yaba daba do, the King is gone, and so are you."
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thomasabarnes
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Re:Sonar X1 Expanded
2011/09/21 16:50:41
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Do you think the problem with the Pro Channel is PC related or Sonar related? I'm going somewhere with this so be careful how you answer this. ;) Bub: Just because Cakewalk was able to produce one or more of your PC problems on one or more of their machines, doesn't mean either of your reported PC problems are globally experienced by the SONAR X1 user base. I think this is what Jim is trying to relate to you. But you just don't seem to understand. SONAR works for some users in areas where it seems to be problematic for some. Face it, man. Some of us are successfully using SONAR and many of it's features.
"It's not a song till it touches your heart. It's not a song till it tears you apart!" Lyrics of Amy Grant. SONAR Platinum X64 (jBridge), Windows 10 Pro 64-Bit, Core i7 990X Extreme Edition Processor 3.46 GHz 6 Cores, Gigabyte EX58-UD5, Crucial Ballistix 24GB 1333MHz DDR3 @1333 MHz, TASCAM UH-7000, Behringer X-Touch, EVGA GTX 980TI Superclocked 6GB, 1TB Samsung EVO 850 SSD, 150GB, 320GB, 1TB 7200rpm HDDs
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:Sonar X1 Expanded
2011/09/21 16:55:40
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I thought the problem was we were all being forced to upgrade to a pro channel that we don't want, and that's going to make all previous methods of working impossible, or have mis-understood (again). Anyway I've just had confirmation from CW of another bug I reported, thus damaging my fanboi status, so I'm off to update that thread. I'll be back to the squabbling shortly. PS. Dabbed my toe in the Atlantic, definitely too cold for swimming tonight.......
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Bub
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Re:Sonar X1 Expanded
2011/09/21 17:03:37
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thomasabarnes
Do you think the problem with the Pro Channel is PC related or Sonar related? I'm going somewhere with this so be careful how you answer this. ;) SONAR works for some users in areas where it seems to be problematic for some.
Face it, man. Some of us are successfully using SONAR and many of it's features.
I've never argued with that. You're just seeing what you want ... but that's ok. We all do it sometimes. :)
"I pulled the head off Elvis, filled Fred up to his pelvis, yaba daba do, the King is gone, and so are you."
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pbognar
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Re:Sonar X1 Expanded
2011/09/21 17:04:42
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Elffin
Will Notion be invited to add a score notation module?.....
Why should the invitations be limited to Notion?
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John
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Re:Sonar X1 Expanded
2011/09/21 17:16:36
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Bub
Bub
Jim Roseberry
ie: I've never had the issue with Pro Channel turning itself on/off.
It's clear to me that your machine is a factor/variable in at least some problems.
We're talking about the Pro Channel, so lets just tackle that one and skip the Guitar Rig thing-a-ma-bobber. :)
Do you think the problem with the Pro Channel is PC related or Sonar related? I'm going somewhere with this so be careful how you answer this. ;)
Well, he went offline before he saw this post so I'll just finish my thought and let him respond if he wants to ...
1. Keep in mind I didn't bring this up ... so I'm on the defense here and not being argumentative, I'm just giving my side of the story.
2. There are other people here who are seeing problems with the PC that are using machines professionally built. One is Danny Danzi and he's using a Studio Cat DAW. I have no doubt whatsoever that Danny's machine is running 100% and there is nothing wrong with it, which is why it's so frustrating when people come here and tell me it's my DAW. We all know it's not when 99.99% of the problems I've had have been resolved by patches and are being worked on for future patches.
If that seems confrontation I'm sorry, but I'm not going to let anyone come here and tell me I have problems with my self built DAW when their professional built DAW is exhibiting the same exact problem I'm having. You can understand that I hope? :)
Bub no one has said there are no bugs in X1 or for that matter in 8.5.3. Think about this though. This thread is about an expanded version of the PC and now we are reading about the problems you have had on your machine in general. I know that you are a passionate fellow and that things are not going well for you but can you see how hearing nothing but problems that for most of us don't have is also a problem? Its too much of the same thing. You stand with those that despise X1 yet I don't believe you do. I think you want X1 to work on your machine yet you align yourself with those that don't even have it. This forum has always been about helping users with problems. Sometimes the problems are beyond our ability to help. It is then up to the user to deal directly with CW and through them figure out a fix. It does none of us any good to hear about your ongoing issues when ever you post. At the same time looking at those like myself that are having a great time with X1 as fanboys and not understand that we are only relating our actual experience it becomes a "he said she said" sort of thing that benefits no one and is provocative to say the least. This thread is about a new feature that will come along very soon. So why are we talking about your problems? Even if they have to do with Pro Channel at some point it needs to be given a rest.
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John
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Re:Sonar X1 Expanded
2011/09/21 17:21:50
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PS. Dabbed my toe in the Atlantic, definitely too cold for swimming tonight....... You better hurry. It wont be getting any warmer any time soon. I just loaded the cooler in the 12 foot boat I plan to meet you half way with with Guinness.
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Bub
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Re:Sonar X1 Expanded
2011/09/21 17:22:25
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John
Bub no one has said there are no bugs in X1 or for that matter in 8.5.3.
Think about this though. This thread is about an expanded version of the PC and now we are reading about the problems you have had on your machine in general.
Hey ... don't blame me. I didn't bring it up ... someone else did and I responded. Go scold them ... not me.
"I pulled the head off Elvis, filled Fred up to his pelvis, yaba daba do, the King is gone, and so are you."
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Tom F
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Re:Sonar X1 Expanded
2011/09/21 17:43:44
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this whole thing ist turning into a ponzi-scheme - LOL (attention: "irony")
i got all this ad-mails telling me for months that its once again the last chance to uprgrade just for a frew bucks from 8.53pe
and now they have "reinvented" the odd zetasome times ago to then immediatley reinvent x1 - hahaha - cool
as soon as one udates then i am sure the "executive senior x1" updates comes out followed by the "premium longterm user x1 gold edition" followed by the "very best of x1 complete diamond pack"
why does this remind me ironmaiden releasing best of albums of their best of albums ???
when will i see a homeshopping cable channel selling sonar??? buy sonar x1 now and get a free aluminium ladder and a edible toothbrush ;-)
...trying to be polite... quick temper...trying to be...
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:Sonar X1 Expanded
2011/09/21 17:53:25
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John
PS. Dabbed my toe in the Atlantic, definitely too cold for swimming tonight.......
You better hurry. It wont be getting any warmer any time soon.
I just loaded the cooler in the 12 foot boat I plan to meet you half way with with Guinness.
I could always call into Dublin on the way past and pick some up, Killkenny too while I'm thinking about it, they no longer supply that delight to us here. But......... what with pitchforks and lit torches to worry about carrying I fear there'll be no room or worse still I'll do a titanic.
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Tom F
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Re:Sonar X1 Expanded
2011/09/21 18:09:26
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btw... since i am im a sarcastic mood:
funny how one could esaily believe to be stucked here in a transition thread from 6 to 7 or from 7 to 8 or from 8 to x1 - the only thing changing is the version - the discussions are the same: why hasnt this be fixed yet when will this finally be opzimized, will the patch solve this and that.. and the good old john telling people to be confident since: "
no one has said there are no bugs in X1 or for that matter in 8.5.3.
if i wouldnt know its september 2011 one could think to be in a loop ;-)
meanwhile i also have bought ableton live 8 - that thing kicks - but probably many horses dont wanna learn new tricks - but having 4 professional sequencers at my disposlal now (sonar, logic,reaper, live) feels better than being a one trick pony - hahaha
...trying to be polite... quick temper...trying to be...
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trimph1
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Re:Sonar X1 Expanded
2011/09/21 18:56:01
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Wow. This epic thread is now up to 17 pages..and counting!  
The space you have will always be exceeded in direct proportion to the amount of stuff you have...Thornton's Postulate. Bushpianos
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UnderTow
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Re:Sonar X1 Expanded
2011/09/21 19:30:57
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Brandon Ryan [Cakewalk
]
There's something to things that are simple and powerful. Sometimes complexity simply for the sake of flexibility can be detrimental.
That is a very good point Brandon. What do you think if Digidesign/Avid's approach: Allow the user to assign any Avid or 3rd party plugin to be the default dynamics or default EQ plugin? All the controls map to the same exact knobs and buttons on the Avid control surfaces regardless of which plugin you use, Avid or 3rd party. That to me is simple and powerful and gives more flexibility than Cakewalk's solution. Don't get me wrong. I understand why Cakewalk added the ProChannel. The only thing I would like more is for an option to choose which EQ/dynamics plugin to use as the default tool. Either one from Cakewalk (the PC modules themselves, or the Sonitus plugins, VC-64 or any of the other Cakewalk offerings) or any 3rd party EQ or dynamics plugin. That to me would be very nice. I don't understand what is this fervor over the ProChannel. I must admit I'm baffled. If you don't find it useful then don't use it.
I think it probably has to do with how prominently present the ProChannel is. You can always see those EQ / Compressor/Saturation buttons in the inspector or console view. If they could be used to turn on/off another default compressor/EQ of one's choosing it might be less of an issue for some. I don't know... Or maybe it is as some have stated: They would prefer Cakewalk to use their resources differently. After all, it is simpler to just give the end-user a choice of default EQ/dynamics plugin and develop 3 VST modules (the current PC modules) than to create a whole ProChannel framework. Not only would it be simpler, cost much less development time and be much less likely to introduce bugs, it would also allow more flexibility and more choice to the users. It's not a vast conspiracy to make SONAR a dumbed-down starter software or anything akin to some of the conjecture I've seen thrown around since the release of X1. It's about modernizing and streamlining SONAR so that it fits the modern music production environment and the tasks performed.
I certainly don't believe that there is any conspiracy to make SONAR dumbed-down but I do believe that the cakewalk developers have a different idea of what constitutes an advanced professional DAW than, say, people like me. If you want to see what a modern powerful, albeit much more expensive DAW combined with a fully integrated control surface can do, have a look at this video: http://apps.avid.com/even...d/in-depth-webcam.html (Warning, it is an hour long). I am aware it isn't a fair comparison with SONAR due to the huge price difference (The control surface alone is about 4,5 times the price of the Cakewalk VS700) but what is instantly noticeable in this video is how well thought out, powerful and far reaching every single feature is. Avid puts a lot of thought into each new feature. (Then again. The PT9 software itself, which is where most of this functionality resides, is only 100 Euro more than X1 Producer...) I often feel Cakewalk do not put enough thought and long time planing into new features. I have said it many times in the past: I would much prefer if Cakewalk would add less new features per version but make each new feature they add much more complete, extensive and powerful. IMO, that approach yields much greater gains in the long term as the combination of these powerful features allows even more efficient and and powerful workflows. The sum of the individual features becomes much greater than the individual parts. For instance PT doesn't have FX chains but what it does have is the ability to import data from other sessions. If you want that great vocal chain from that other song you worked on you can import the vocal track from that session into your current project and you can choose whether you want the actual clips included or not, the alternate playlists, the automation, the I/O settings, the sends etc etc. This not only covers a huge part of the functionality of FX chains but also allows all sorts of other functionality that FX chains could never possibly cover. Sure it doesn't look as sexy as FX chains but it is infinitely more powerful. Personally I think that having a project(+OMF+AAF) browser in X1 where you can view tracks, buses, FX, instruments etc from other existing projects (without actually opening and loading them!) and being able to drag and drop those things into current projects would be a very powerful feature indeed! Anyway back to X1: Sadly, I feel that X1 might be further away from the powerful advanced DAW paradigm than previous versions of Sonar were and I think that is exactly the feeling that some other Cakewalk customers have. Talking about modern music production environments: Gap-less audio engine! :-) Anyway, just ideas... UnderTow
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John
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Re:Sonar X1 Expanded
2011/09/21 19:44:30
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Though I can't agree with every point you made Undertow in your post above I do agree with how you said it and what you said in general.
I would very much like to see better CS support in X1. I am especially interested in better Mackie Control support. I think all support for many CSs could use a nice big update.
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UnderTow
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Re:Sonar X1 Expanded
2011/09/21 19:54:58
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Bub
Brandon Ryan [Cakewalk]
If you don't find it useful then don't use it.
You're absolutely right. And if that's how it would have worked on release, you probably wouldn't be seeing near as much turmoil as you are now. Of course, I'm referring to the phantom on/off thing.
I think that what happens to the Sonitus channel EQ from previous versions of Sonar when an old project is loaded in X1 might be a better example. You can still control part of the Sonitus EQ through the graphical little window but not all of it. So some effort was put into porting it but the effort was not finished and instead one is more or less forced to switch to the ProChannel if one wants to dig in to the EQ settings. Also, if I remember correctly, the current EQ settings are completely discarded when switching to the ProChannel, no? Not a good thing at all. Actually I think it is a real shame that users don't have the choice between the ProChannel EQs and the Sonitus EQ. I would have thought that getting that little graphical UI to work would be the hardest part. Opening the Sonitus EQ by double clicking the graph seems trivial in comparison to actually being able to tweak the frequency and gain of the bands as you can! So it isn't even a technical decision. It must be a marketing decision! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDW_Hj2K0wo UnderTow
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John T
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Re:Sonar X1 Expanded
2011/09/21 19:56:11
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Why must it? What possible marketing benefit does it provide?
http://johntatlockaudio.com/Self-build PC // 16GB RAM // i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz // Nofan 0dB cooler // ASUS P8-Z77 V Pro motherboard // Intel x-25m SSD System Drive // Seagate RAID Array Audio Drive // Windows 10 64 bit // Sonar Platinum (64 bit) // Sonar VS-700 // M-Audio Keystation Pro 88 // KRK RP-6 Monitors // and a bunch of other stuff
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UnderTow
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Re:Sonar X1 Expanded
2011/09/21 20:17:04
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John T
Why must it? What possible marketing benefit does it provide?
Do you really think a coder will go to all the trouble of making the little GUI functional but then stop at allowing one to open the plugin by double clicking? I guess it is possible but I doubt it. Anyway, even if it is not a marketing decision, it does urge people to switch to the ProChannel EQs (and loose all one's EQ settings in the process) because the functionality is limited until you switch (no access to Q if I remember correctly, no access to the EQ type, no access to the extra 5th and 6th bands, no changing of the main output gain). UnderTow
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John T
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Re:Sonar X1 Expanded
2011/09/21 20:26:15
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Well, you didn't quite answer my question there. Why would a marketing team ask for it to be this way?
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Jonbouy
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Re:Sonar X1 Expanded
2011/09/21 20:32:03
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John T
Well, you didn't quite answer my question there. Why would a marketing team ask for it to be this way?
To be fair he did say, 'even if it is a not a marketing decision' which qualified his statement. Did you miss that bit?
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UnderTow
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Re:Sonar X1 Expanded
2011/09/21 20:37:56
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John T
Well, you didn't quite answer my question there. Why would a marketing team ask for it to be this way?
And again you completely miss the point and essence of a post. It doesn't matter who's decision it was.... unless you are just here to argue for the sake of arguing. As you can't seem to figure it out yourself here you go: The marketing department probably want as many people as possible to switch to and fully embrace the ProChannel so that they will update to X1 Expanded (which, nota bene, is what this thread is about) and buy future modules if/when they become available. It isn't rocket science. UnderTow
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