pwal

it's reinventing the wheel, with added lock-in

Exactly.

how many non-sonar users would buy pc if were an un-crippled vst? (vst3 please)

I would not have bought it or any channel strip.

That's a great idea. So great, in fact, it's been in there from day one, switched off and hidden by default.

John T


That's a great idea. So great, in fact, it's been in there from day one, switched off and hidden by default.

Yeah, but is it like 'block user' on the forum, does it really make John_T go away or is he really still there using up resources in the background?

At least I know he's not a bug because he behaves as expected every time...

frankly, i don't get it, no, not from a user perspective... 8-/ ... i'm not trolling, i do buy channel strip plugins, i honestly don't get the advantage over a track template/project template; i also use more than one host, it would be nice to spread it about a bit (ymmv)

Jonbouy

John T


That's a great idea. So great, in fact, it's been in there from day one, switched off and hidden by default.

Yeah, but is it like 'block user' on the forum, does it really make John_T go away or is he really still there using up resources in the background?

This should not be too difficult to test, but if they are not turned on why would they still be using resouces? I guess they could be sitting in the background plotting the destruction of all music.

Brandon Ryan [Cakewalk
]

Bub


Brandon,

Will the features of Expanded be incorporated in to X2 Producer or will there be a new version of Sonar called X2 Producer Expanded that current Producer owners would have to upgrade to?

It looks to me like there is going to be 5 versions now and Producer will no longer be the top of the line product or am I wrong?

Sonar Essentials
Sonar Studio
Sonar Producer
Sonar Expanded
Sonar Production Suite

It's too early to tell. Actually Expanded is Producer Expanded, not a separate version as it depends on Producer. Production Suite is a bundle with no added functionality over the others.

Except - Z3ta 2 if I'm not mistaken...

Jonbouy


I think where Brandon is going wrong here he's using his intelligence, reason and logic to try and explain these concepts.

I tried that over the weekend.  It doesn't work.

<shrugs>

LOL 

no time for forum wankery, songs to make!

John T

pwal


it'll make a change from your usual jibber-jabber ;-) ... really though, the matrix isn't such a good comparison, as it's rather specialist (compared to a channel strip)...

Well, hang on. You were saying you don't see how the PC is useful. Some other people do. That's the point of the comparison.

imagine a few years down the line, pc has loads of modules available - isn't it just another fx-bin?

My god, it will truly be the end of days. This must be stopped. Won't someone think of the children.

I see locusts swarming on the horizon. 

John T


Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is PC4K S-Type.

Brandon Ryan [Cakewalk]

I think you are reading way too much in. We are not "limiting everything".

There's a lot of people who disagree.

FX Chains and bins are still there in all their previous glory so nothing has been removed.

Haven't been removed yet. I never dreamed the Tool Bar would be rendered untouchable either until X1 came out. That was a total blindside.

I don't understand what is this fervor over the ProChannel. I must admit I'm baffled.

People don't like being forced to use some things, and then have other things taken away. Maybe Cakewalk should listen to the fervor. It's been there since X1's release. Keep in mind, the fanboi's aren't the people you need to listen to ... they'll give you their money and slobber on you no matter what you throw at them. It's the people who bring up concerns, legitimate concerns, that you need to listen to, and it seems like those are the ones you don't understand. Ignore the guys who come in, spout off about something they don't understand, then leave, but listen to the guys who have been around here for years saying, this is B.S. man. I don't include myself in that group by the way, but those guys are definitely here if you read and should be listened to, not the guys who will sit here and tell you to use multiple instances of PC if you want to use more than one EQ. That's just nuts.

If you don't find it useful then don't use it.

You're absolutely right. And if that's how it would have worked on release, you probably wouldn't be seeing near as much turmoil as you are now. Of course, I'm referring to the phantom on/off thing. You lost the trust of a lot of people because of that and they saw first hand the problems with having something like an effect embedded the way the Pro Channel is.

I'm willing to bet that the vast majority of any product any of us owns does things we don't need or want. My microwave can cook stuff but I only use it for heating. My toaster oven can bake, but I only use it for toasting. My vehicle can haul a trailer but I can't see myself ever doing that. It's nice that it's there in case I need it, but I don't use it and I'm not upset that the manufacturer built in the capability.

I'm not upset, I'm just pointing out the fact that it is limited. And by the way, I'm not the only one. I'm not even the one who started this conversation ... I was just stating my opinion with the OP when I saw there was an effort to discredit his observations.

I've said it once (ok many many times) and I'll say it again. I'm all for some Smart Tool customization and some color customization returned to SONAR. It's not a vast conspiracy to make SONAR a dumbed-down starter software or anything akin to some of the conjecture I've seen thrown around since the release of X1. It's about modernizing and streamlining SONAR so that it fits the modern music production environment and the tasks performed.

So, it's a plus to be able to skin an FX chain to make it look cool and that's going to help modern music production houses, but not being able to customize the Tool Bar is an added plus? Well, I'm not in a modern music production environment so I guess I really can't debate that with you.

Anyhoo ... thanks for responding. I probably will upgrade to the Expanded pack eventually, but right now I have to hold off for a few reasons, mostly financial concerns on my end.

Thanks,

Bub

meh

Do you know off hand if the Softube saturation model will softclip? I personally use saturation tools to "musically" catch stray peaks more so then to add saturation color. I'm currently using the PC "tube" model for this functionality, being a Softube fan my curiosity has sprung.

John

Because PC is integrated in X1 producer that to you is unfair?

Yes.

Can you use Cubase's included plugin's in any other DAW. How about Logic or Studio One are their plugins open to any DAW?

The difference is, you didn't pay for an upgrade that allowed you to add those effects, then get charged again for the effects.

What Cakewalk has done is created an environment where you buy a 3rd party plug-in that only works in Sonar. That's not right.

One way to avoid the being "locked in" to PC is get the Studio version and let us that like PC alone.

The whole reason people buy the Producer version is to get all the effects and synth's. Now if you don't want the Pro Channel, you have to give up everything else. How is that right to us?

Why didn't they just make the Pro Channel an option like they did with Expanded? Everyone would have been happy because they would have had a choice then. And at least at that point, they would have had a legitimate reason for charging you for the upgrade ...

stevec

So, it's a plus to be able to skin an FX chain to make it look cool and that's going to help modern music production houses, but not being able to customize the Tool Bar is an added plus?

 
Maybe it's just wishful thinking, but I'm hoping that the ability to skin the FX Chain is just the beginning...
 

It already will be more than that it allows you to make a compound effect out of any combination of VST's you already have and make that controllable/automatable from a simple UI front end, whilst still having individual access to each contained effect.

FX Chains 2 willl be useful have no doubt.

I can also see the usefulness of the modular PC too even if it is nothing ground breaking, but having your bread and butter DSP's right under your nose on every track, integrated into the familiar GUI is going to be useful to some, especially if they like the add-on modules and I reckon given the popularity of the current PC they likely will.  Not for me perhaps as I like to keep the same processors available to more than one app.

I have reservations about how it's being marketed not the content of what seems to be quite a useful bump up in functionality.  Which isn't to say it's not worth what they are charging for it.

But that's just me.