DARNIT! I thought this thread had finally died.

Just checking to see if X2 improved the staff and lyrics view. After Sonar 8 destroyed my university assignment with the lyrics/clip bug (*) I vowed not to spend another cent (yen actually) until they fixed it. So it looks like I won't be buying X2 either.

I really don't understand people like the above who try to argue against any improvements in notation or try to defend Cakewalk. There are dozens of features I never use but never comment on, I'm not interested in the latest Analogue Tube Warming Exciter FET Compressor Buss Channel (TM) but if that floats your boat then great - I'm sure your killer synth track will sound so much better with preset 3. And X2 has the Advanced Arpeggiator! Not even Kraftwerk had that!

Perhaps notation invokes some sort tall poppy syndrome, but to those of us who have been using notation since we were children, it's simply the language of music.

For my needs Sonar notation comes so close, all I want to do is print out a rough lead sheet and it can't even do that properly.


* the introduction of clips broke the lyrics view, it's never been fixed or documented, and the simple work around of keeping the track as one clip never mentioned.

djwayne


You obviously got me wrong and are believing the negative hype the supporters of notation are spewing about me.

I am not against improvements to notation...why would I be ?? 

You seem confused 

"Sonar works well for me and my needs. I don't need notation and I don't want to be forced into paying for it or the developement of it."

"I don't need notation and I don't want to be forced into paying for it or the developement of it. "

  

I just don't care about it because it's not a priority for me.

You certainly put a lot of effort into not caring.

I've printed out a sample score with lyrics to check the system. It worked fine but what am I going to do with the score I printed out ?? Blow my nose with it ?? 

Give it to a musician, he'll know what to do with it.  

I'm not going to boycott Cakewalk.

I'm not going to threaten Cakewalk.

I'm not going to run crying to Cubase.

I'm planning on buying X2 as soon as it becomes available because I like the many other features that X2 has.

My world doesn't revolve around notation.

If I want to enter in notes to my music, I'll simply just use my midi keyboard.

I'm not a psychologist but you may suffer from paranoia; you think that people are talking about you when they aren't, and you think that your opinions are more important than they really are.

I think what we have here is a case of cubase salesmen trashing X1 to help cubase sales.

mmmm....methinks some doth protest too much.

DJ...if you really do not care then why go on a stump about it?

IT'S PLAIN AND SIMPLE. WE WOULD LIKE IMPROVEMENT TO THE NOTATION!!!

Please let this be the last post in this thread.

^^   I'm not sure who maybe threatening, boycotting, or improperly treating anyone around here, as you insinuate. I'm not sure either how you can accomplish that by posting mere user experience and opinions on a forum, in hope that they are heard and considered by the developers of SONAR.

As far as I can tell, the vast majority of people posting on this thread have maintained a fair and objective tone, and commensurable netiquette. Hopefully that will prevail over any uncalled for attempt to derail it.

You are entitled to your opinion, so are the rest of those who have decided to express theirs in this thread. If you have had an issue with anyone over previous threads/posts, I'm sure the best route to address it is to report it to the forum mods for resolution.


@ Guitarprima - I, on the contrary, would hope this thread could continue being kept alive until the final X2 announcement. Not that other past threads haven't, but this has been a good reference and may serve to perpetuate the outstanding (hopefully not further ignored) issue for future reference.

DJ, I don't think it's necessarily your stance on the subject that causes friction in these threads, but rather your choice of words; e.g., "go ahead and a have a hissy fit" in response to what seems to be a fairly well thought-out reply.   IMHO.
 

@ Guitarprima - I, on the contrary, would hope this thread could continue being kept alive until the final X2 announcement. Not that other past threads haven't, but this has been a good reference and may serve to perpetuate the outstanding (hopefully not further ignored) issue for future reference.

+100

Why not keeping the list on this? Again, it'd be best to keep track of people who posted and provided some feedback on here. Not trying to discourage you, but there have been other great threads in the past about SV improvements & features... e.g.:

http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.aspx?m=1743654

Between the so much stuff there and just looking at the marketplace and what others do, you'd think CW would have more than enough to get themselves going for a good while....
 
p.s. BTW, John sent the laundry list to CW back when.....

Guitarpima

Gusfmm


@ Guitarprima - I, on the contrary, would hope this thread could continue being kept alive until the final X2 announcement. Not that other past threads haven't, but this has been a good reference and may serve to perpetuate the outstanding (hopefully not further ignored) issue for future reference.

On the contrary, I like the discussion about SV improvments. I think we should stick to specifics about what we don't like about it rather than get drawn into useless debates about things we have no control over feuled by someone who thinks we should just shut up. I started another thread with the hope we could stick to the specifics and stop the nonsense. Who cares about other products. I like Sonar as a DAW. I would hope they make the SV better so it's more usable. If I need to print music, I use Finale. For now, till the SV is fixed, I have to use Finale for the more technicly involved scoring.

+1000
 
My position is pretty much exactly that too ... I use Sibelius when I want to score, I just get on with it.
The SV is a bit sadly lacking, and deserves focussed discussion here by those wanting to see practical improvements and advancement.
Good on you for starting a new thread, though it wouldn't surprise me if certain users crash in there to be disruptive.
I've blocked em, not worth the bandwidth.
 
There's been some pretty informative discussion in the past, lets hope you new thread gets the treatment it deserves, and not the other.
 
Cheers - Cliff
 

I broke down, done gone and bought cube 6.5 a few months back... dongle shmongle, I say... I just need an integrated DAW. Plus, I justified the steinberg key by getting a really good deal on Arturia's synths at the time anyway... :) I've been using MakeMusic's PrintMusic for years for basic lead sheet stuff that I do from scratch (really nice app for the $$$, BTW). I have no real use for full-blown Finale or Sibelius, etc., in that I'm not doing full scores for film and print, etc... but I do need full-featured staff in the way that I need comprehensive MIDI, a decent step sequencer, audio stretch, etc. etc. all in one package. Rewire and XML import/export and all that other jazz is really something I don't have the patience for... which is another reason I wouldn't use Finale/Sibelius anyway, because on the DAW side they're lacking, comparatively. 

I've played piano for years, and honestly, programming chords and harmonies in PRV is paaaaiiinfullllll... I don't know what it is... no, I do know what it is... I don't play piano at a 90 degree angle. If the piano keys were along the top, then I could at least see the notes naturally as they relate to the, you know, piano... but then you lose the ability to naturally "read" the notes left to right. I'm sorry, but PRV sucks for part programming from scratch. I've done it for years (in SONAR and elsewhere) and every time it takes longer to do simple things. Tweaking a live performance, perfectly adequate, but notes from scratch, very difficult, IMO. So... if I need to write in a horn section or some strings, I just need the tool that is the most efficient for that sort of job, which for me is notation. Other times I may just play those same parts in and tweak in PRV... but I need the options. I've actually programmed entire scratch tracks using only the mouse in Sonar, FL, reaper, etc., including piano, drums, bass, melody... so for me, the more tools, the better!

Funny thing is I do have Finale and have been upgrading with them even though I'm not really using it at the moment. I used the last version more for the education worksheets I printed out. I got Finale 2007 for a really great price at the time and keep upgrading. I'm just like Keith and that I'm used to the staff view and kept hoping for Cakewalk to make it shine. Looks like I might be looking at Cubase too.

vicsant

If the notation user base is that small...then Cakewalk shouldn't be afraid to lose the income of a handful of users who need better notation.
 

It seems to me that if the notation user base is small, that would be because the notation functionality is not good enough to attract one. Every other DAW that has decent notation editing must be getting a good return off of it, otherwise they wouldn't have put the $$$'s into developing it. 

So the only arguments I can think of are that:

a) Cakewalk does not have the money to budget for notation development as opposed to other areas of development, because
b) They spent that money developing all the other awesome features of X1, and/or
c) Their notation engine in its present form is not strong enough to build on and would require a complete rewrite

These guys certainly aren't stupid, and they are no doubt well aware that a new improved notation view would increase their potential user base. I simply don't buy the argument that not enough people use notation. The music industry is bursting with people who work with music notation every single day, and always has been. 

Yep fully x64, and it runs a treat, as does Sonar of course.
The Score editor is way better than X1, but they have continued to refine it over the years and so it should be.
Importing and scoring to video has more functions than X1 [moving video around the timeline etc]
Another thing Cubase and most other DAW's seem to have, that X1 does not, is chase long Midi notes.
That would be a nice future request.

Keith, is Cubase properly 64 bit? What I've read is a bit vague. I know it will run in Win 7 64 bit, but it addresses 64 bit (ie >4Gbyte)  memory properly?  I saw the score capabilities in a music shop recently and I was blown away. Also not sure if I can get the English version, I live in Japan. I'd thought of going to Pro Tools because of it's ubiquity but it wasn't 64bit last time I looked. I use piano roll view but with the staff view open above it.