SvenArne
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Re:Sonar X2 Wish List
2010/11/27 04:44:28
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yorolpal
I liked the idea someone had way back earlier in this thread about different Sonar lines:
Sonar X1Post for all us commercial broadcast types
Sonar X1Score for all the notators and composers
Sonar X1Producer which would be basically what we've got without the video, post pro and notation sections.
of course you'd still have to have
Sonar X1MaxPro with everything AND the kitchen sink thrown in but it would cost so much that only Mike McCue might buy it.
I think having the post/video and notation functionalities as add-ons/upgrades is actually a good idea, as they are high-maintenance features that only a subset of users need. I'm a midi guy and I even read/write music to some degree, but since I worked the PRV into my fingertips, I've never used the score view. And post/video is even more specialized. Sven
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noiseboy
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Re:Sonar X2 Wish List
2010/11/27 05:39:12
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I think having the post/video and notation functionalities as add-ons/upgrades is actually a good idea, as they are high-maintenance features that only a subset of users need. I'm a midi guy and I even read/write music to some degree, but since I worked the PRV into my fingertips, I've never used the score view. And post/video is even more specialized.
Sven
OK, but my points are: 1. These features already exist within Sonar. If you take them away, people will be asked to pay more in order to remove features that they may rely on. Does this really make sense? How would you sell X2 to them?! 2. A huge proportion of features in Sonar are only used by a subset of users. I couldn't care less about Matrix view, for example. Should it be taken away cos only a subset use it? 3. It's becoming my life's mission on these boards to explain that no-one is arguing that Sonar be used as a film / tv post-production tool, and Cakewalk shouldn't try (see previous post). Also, just to reiterate, no-one wants video editing either. 4. Many of the changes being asked for in terms of video support are not high-maintenance at all, it's simply refining what is already there. The exception is probably better tempo / meter working, but arguably that would benefit a far greater range of users than those who score to picture. As for notation, I'd like to hear more from those guys who use it... although potentially it's a bottomless pit, I think there are some easy wins to be had that will help people. I'd be curious to see people who argue for split versions of Sonar to respond to these points (and those in my previous post). It just makes no sense to me whatsoever.
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SongCraft
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Re:Sonar X2 Wish List
2010/11/27 05:55:05
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SvenArne
yorolpal
I liked the idea someone had way back earlier in this thread about different Sonar lines:
Sonar X1Post for all us commercial broadcast types
Sonar X1Score for all the notators and composers
Sonar X1Producer which would be basically what we've got without the video, post pro and notation sections.
of course you'd still have to have
Sonar X1MaxPro with everything AND the kitchen sink thrown in but it would cost so much that only Mike McCue might buy it.
I think having the post/video and notation functionalities as add-ons/upgrades is actually a good idea, as they are high-maintenance features that only a subset of users need. I'm a midi guy and I even read/write music to some degree, but since I worked the PRV into my fingertips, I've never used the score view. And post/video is even more specialized.
Sven
When you explain it that way I think you and ol'pal have a good idea, IMO 'addons' when installed are 'tightly integrated' into Sonar, thereby nice workflow, more advanced, 'enhanced features' for Notation and/or Video (score to film) all within Sonar :) Next up: It would also be nice if Cakewalk could do a deal with a video editor software company, to allow direct 'Jump' to and from Sonar for example; * From video editor > Export Video - 'Jump' to Sonar will automatically open Sonar + import video at best optimized video playback. (although with optional user global settings) * From Sonar Export Audio - 'Jump' to video editor will open video editor + import audio file. All that done, ready to go, all setup and done automatically with one click (Jump)! Sort of what Adobe does with their line of software, 'Jump' allowing users to jump between Photoshop and other programs. This 'Jump' idea would be cool for those who want to see the progress of their work and have the option to 'Jump' back to redo something such as; the mix. Jump could also have options to export as separate files, such as; separate 'narration' track thereby; one stereo mix and one mono narration track. Oh and..... Yeah, yeah, yeah, OK! Ok! I also agree that Cakewalk should continue to focus on further enhancing existing features in Sonar. I've been saying that for years and yeah it's getting old *LOL* {no pun intended}  That said, to be fair.... Cakewalk do listen but they can only do so much with the time and resources they have, and so far from what I've seen and read about X1; it's looking pretty cool, the additional workflow enhancements is worth the upgrade alone. I'm very excited about it :) -
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subtlearts
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Re:Sonar X2 Wish List
2010/11/27 06:24:58
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noiseboy
I think having the post/video and notation functionalities as add-ons/upgrades is actually a good idea, as they are high-maintenance features that only a subset of users need. I'm a midi guy and I even read/write music to some degree, but since I worked the PRV into my fingertips, I've never used the score view. And post/video is even more specialized.
Sven
OK, but my points are:
1. These features already exist within Sonar. If you take them away, people will be asked to pay more in order to remove features that they may rely on. Does this really make sense? How would you sell X2 to them?!
2. A huge proportion of features in Sonar are only used by a subset of users. I couldn't care less about Matrix view, for example. Should it be taken away cos only a subset use it?
3. It's becoming my life's mission on these boards to explain that no-one is arguing that Sonar be used as a film / tv post-production tool, and Cakewalk shouldn't try (see previous post). Also, just to reiterate, no-one wants video editing either.
4. Many of the changes being asked for in terms of video support are not high-maintenance at all, it's simply refining what is already there. The exception is probably better tempo / meter working, but arguably that would benefit a far greater range of users than those who score to picture. As for notation, I'd like to hear more from those guys who use it... although potentially it's a bottomless pit, I think there are some easy wins to be had that will help people.
I'd be curious to see people who argue for split versions of Sonar to respond to these points (and those in my previous post). It just makes no sense to me whatsoever.
I'm with you on all points here, Noiseboy. Nicely laid out.
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SongCraft
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Re:Sonar X2 Wish List
2010/11/27 07:05:39
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Noiseboy: These features already exist within Sonar. If you take them away... I agree not to take them away. I also agree to; 'addons' for far more advanced, 'enhanced features' for Notation and/or Video (score to film) all tightly integrated Sonar :) Other companies do 'Addons' (won't name one particular DAW here)! But that does not mean there is NO core (basic) features in the initial version. I look at it this way... if you want the additional (addons) 'more advance notation' that blows away those so-called All-in-One competitors (DAW) then I would gladly pay a little more, I think that's fair. ;) Already, the flagship has been reduced in price, yet with 'suggested' options available for 'addons' whilst keeping Sonar competitive and fulfilling 'individual customers needs and their budgets' I think that's a good idea. I've said a million times... I would prefer Cakewalk continue to focus on further enhancing existing core features in Sonar that are 'essential needs for the broader customer base'. That said; I'll wait until 2011 before I start submitting my 'Feature Requests'... meanwhile there is no harm in posting what is obviously not available in X1 as confirmed by Cakewalk ~ read the X1 forums > threads ;) -
post edited by SongCraft - 2010/11/27 07:07:44
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noiseboy
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Re:Sonar X2 Wish List
2010/11/27 07:50:34
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SongCraft
Noiseboy:
These features already exist within Sonar. If you take them away...
I agree not to take them away.
I also agree to; 'addons' for far more advanced, 'enhanced features' for Notation and/or Video (score to film) all tightly integrated Sonar :)
Other companies do 'Addons' (won't name one particular DAW here)! But that does not mean there is NO core (basic) features in the initial version.
I look at it this way... if you want the additional (addons) 'more advance notation' that blows away those so-called All-in-One competitors (DAW) then I would gladly pay a little more, I think that's fair. ;)
Already, the flagship has been reduced in price, yet with 'suggested' options available for 'addons' whilst keeping Sonar competitive and fulfilling 'individual customers needs and their budgets' I think that's a good idea.
I've said a million times... I would prefer Cakewalk continue to focus on further enhancing existing core features in Sonar that are 'essential needs for the broader customer base'.
That said;
I'll wait until 2011 before I start submitting my 'Feature Requests'... meanwhile there is no harm in posting what is obviously not available in X1 as confirmed by Cakewalk ~ read the X1 forums > threads ;)
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That sounds fair enough. I think (someone else will need to speak with more experience than I) that improving third party notation software support should be a core feature though - integrating properly with other products is basic. A full-blown feature set to rival Finale would be a good example of a paid extra though.
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gtgarner
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Re:Sonar X2 Wish List
2010/11/27 08:01:32
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noiseboy
SongCraft
Noiseboy:
These features already exist within Sonar. If you take them away...
I agree not to take them away.
I also agree to; 'addons' for far more advanced, 'enhanced features' for Notation and/or Video (score to film) all tightly integrated Sonar :)
Other companies do 'Addons' (won't name one particular DAW here)! But that does not mean there is NO core (basic) features in the initial version.
I look at it this way... if you want the additional (addons) 'more advance notation' that blows away those so-called All-in-One competitors (DAW) then I would gladly pay a little more, I think that's fair. ;)
Already, the flagship has been reduced in price, yet with 'suggested' options available for 'addons' whilst keeping Sonar competitive and fulfilling 'individual customers needs and their budgets' I think that's a good idea.
I've said a million times... I would prefer Cakewalk continue to focus on further enhancing existing core features in Sonar that are 'essential needs for the broader customer base'.
That said;
I'll wait until 2011 before I start submitting my 'Feature Requests'... meanwhile there is no harm in posting what is obviously not available in X1 as confirmed by Cakewalk ~ read the X1 forums > threads ;)
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That sounds fair enough. I think (someone else will need to speak with more experience than I) that improving third party notation software support should be a core feature though - integrating properly with other products is basic. A full-blown feature set to rival Finale would be a good example of a paid extra though.
Excellent post. Cakewalk - focus on what you do best. Focus on the core features. Let other companies focus on what they do best and then integrate with them. That way, the cost can remain low. Keep in mind -We are not only paying for product development, but "support" after we purchase Sonar. If a robust Staff View is added to Sonar then, everyone will have to share the cost for the added SUPPORT of this enhanced feature wether you use it or not. People who develop/support Sonar at Cakewalk don't work for free.
post edited by gtgarner - 2010/11/27 08:04:03
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Crg
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Re:Sonar X2 Wish List
2010/11/27 11:26:59
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Put up Craig. I wish to see the proof of your statements of audio's superior abilities to create itself. What would you have me put up? Examples of real time phrasing that Midi cannot interpret and write as is. The fact that Midi makes a best guess of those phrasings and writes them into it's own structure? Sure midi made it possible to do a lot things by bridgeing gap between notation and data for one thing, but midi in and of it's self does not make possible what the synthesizer does, it is the synthesizer that makes that possible. The same midi data sent to two different synjthesizers will give you different results. I'm not sure what it is you want as proof. I use midi all the time to write music by playing it. But there are things midi can't do that instruments can do in audio.
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Mike Trujillo [Cakewalk] 
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Re:Sonar X2 Wish List
2010/11/27 11:34:15
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Just a friendly suggestion but why don't we move the midi discussion to a new thread and continue the debate there?
(pulls steering wheel to the left trying to keep the bus full of screaming passengers on the road and not off into the ravine)
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Crg
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Re:Sonar X2 Wish List
2010/11/27 12:07:55
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Mike Trujillo [Cakewalk
]
Just a friendly suggestion but why don't we move the midi discussion to a new thread and continue the debate there?
(pulls steering wheel to the left trying to keep the bus full of screaming passengers on the road and not off into the ravine)
I'll shut up.
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pwal
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Re:Sonar X2 Wish List
2010/11/27 12:39:23
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x1's not even out yet and there's a x2 wish list already? 
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:Sonar X2 Wish List
2010/11/27 12:47:39
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pwal
x1's not even out yet and there's a x2 wish list already?
Yeah I'm confused. I've seen the X1 'Highlights' list but I haven't seen the definitive "What's new" & bug fix list yet. Where is it? Anyone like to link me please......
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pwal
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Re:Sonar X2 Wish List
2010/11/27 13:34:34
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i'd be keen to see a bug fix list too
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SongCraft
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Re:Sonar X2 Wish List
2010/11/28 10:51:30
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Earlier someone mentioned something about enhanced audio for video? This is what Brandon said in another thread: Brandon Ryan [Cakewalk]
I know it's vague, but I'll tell you this at least - enhancing the audio for video capabilities of SONAR are a relatively high priority for us. I think we have a pretty good handle on the size and scope of what some of you are asking for.
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mytify
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Re:Sonar X2 Wish List
2011/06/27 15:10:25
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I wish, Sonar X2 will have a user interface that ist capable of really being used with multimonitor (e.g. 2 LCD screens).
Also, some ease-of-use-templates would be nice, e.g. for Songwriting, Presets for Rock, Black Music, ...
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:Sonar X2 Wish List
2011/06/27 15:45:32
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mytify
I wish, Sonar X2 will have a user interface that ist capable of really being used with multimonitor (e.g. 2 LCD screens).
Eh? What can't you do with X1 on a multi monitor setup? Sonar has been usable on multi monitor setups since I can remember.
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Glennbo
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Re:Sonar X2 Wish List
2011/06/27 16:10:08
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mytify
I wish, Sonar X2 will have a user interface that ist capable of really being used with multimonitor (e.g. 2 LCD screens).
Also, some ease-of-use-templates would be nice, e.g. for Songwriting, Presets for Rock, Black Music, ...
After trying the X1 demo, I'm hoping that X2 will have taller channel strips that will dwarf the Burj Khalifa!!! Also more blank grey stuff!!! <g>
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e.Blue
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Re:Sonar X2 Wish List
2011/06/27 16:14:50
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FastBikerBoy
mytify
I wish, Sonar X2 will have a user interface that ist capable of really being used with multimonitor (e.g. 2 LCD screens).
Eh? What can't you do with X1 on a multi monitor setup? Sonar has been usable on multi monitor setups since I can remember.
One issue that I can think of right off the top of my head occurs if you float a second window (Console View, Matrix view, etc) onto a non-primary monitor. The main window on the secondary monitor does not behave like the main window on the primary monitor. Basically the floating window has no 'priority' over any other windows placed on top of it. Which means that any plugin or other windows that are placed on the secondary monitor can become 'lost' behind the main floating window. It's a very annoying limitation. -e.B
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:Sonar X2 Wish List
2011/06/27 16:35:50
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That'll be because the TV is the only window with that sort of priority, always has been. Whether that'll ever change remains to be seen.
IMHO X1 has improved the situation a bit though with the multidock. Put any windows in there and then Ctrl-Shift & arrow keys to switch between them.
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SynthBum
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Re:Sonar X2 Wish List
2011/08/01 13:22:17
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Next version or next up date of sonar I do like to see the appregiator to work and trigger inside the groove cells as the old P5 ver2 was capable of. That would be nice to include. Oh but wait a minute I was wrong, I just come to realize there is no need to all that when you could bounce to clips within the same clips after using the appregiator. Sorry I do apologize for writing this in the first place.
post edited by SynthBum - 2011/08/02 16:01:59
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SynthBum
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Re:Sonar X2 Wish List
2011/08/16 21:46:10
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One other thing would be nice is to add an extra rhythm or measure controller tab on each matrix cell so you'll have A, B, and C to mess with and not just A and B. Now anyone can be very creative as far as DJing or making good music in any way one can.
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PenguiN42
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Re:Sonar X2 Wish List
2011/08/17 14:17:41
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Things I would like to see done for X2:
- Deep workflow scrub. X1 improved some things, made some things worse. I think there should be a huge effort to polish up various common functions and continue to try to get the interface out of the way of getting work done! I could list perhaps a dozen things I'd like changed under this category but I'll save the space :)
- Clean up lingering bugs involving automation, cutting & pasting, and general editing functions. It's way too easy to corrupt your project or have weird unexpected things happen.
- Give the matrix view a good makeover. More routing flexibility (hardware out? midi channels other than 1?), more options for cell playback, and most of all: consistent playback (no longer dropping MIDI notes, playing things out of sync, etc).
- Varispeed, better handling of tempo changes across the board (I've found that lots of tempo changes can really start to muck with the GUI rendering and editing functions, not to mention weird bugs like VX64 de-esser glitching on tempo changes!), more options for resampling/retiming events and clips. It's 2011, these things are becoming essential for modern workflows, and sonar is a bit behind the times.
- Bring video/post-production/scoring features up to modern standards, as well.
Maybe this seems like a lot to bite off in one go, but honestly these are mostly things that SONAR has needed for several versions now. The flashy stuff has been nice, but it's time for cakewalk to focus on core functionality again.
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Freddie H
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Re:Sonar X2 Wish List
2011/08/17 15:26:52
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*ALL color options back! *Bigger GUI menus in preference * all kinds of bigger windows based on HD 1920 x1080 and HD 1920 x 1200. * A SONAR GUI color scheme that looks this default. NOT GREY!!! 
-Highly developed spirits often encounter resistance from mediocre minds. -It really matters!
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jbow
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Re:Sonar X2 Wish List
2011/08/19 15:05:07
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Drag and drop an audio clip into the browser from any other view.
J
Sonar Platinum Studiocat Pro 16G RAM (some bells and whistles) HP Pavilion dm4 1165-dx (i5)-8G RAM Octa-Capture KRK Rokit-8s MIDI keyboards... Control Pad mics. I HATE THIS CMPUTER KEYBARD!
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timidi
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Re:Sonar X2 Wish List
2011/08/19 19:58:09
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tyacko
Like wicked, I too would like to see varispeed as a feature for the next release. I'm actually surprised this isn't yet a part of the software.
Hmm. considering audiosnap, and the Cakewalk engine, can you imagine how ****ed a Cakewalk varispeed would be? Pretty sad state of affairs actually.
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doncolga
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Re:Sonar X2 Wish List
2011/08/19 21:16:53
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How do you all think of all this stuff? My only request for X2: leaner with greater stability.
HP Z220 Workstation I7 3770, 8 GB RAM, Windows 10, Sonar Platinum, RME Multiface II via PCIe, JBL 4326 w/sub, AvanTone MixCubes
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mumpcake
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Re:Sonar X2 Wish List
2011/08/19 23:09:08
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Notecrusher
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Re:Sonar X2 Wish List
2011/08/20 03:18:37
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PenguiN42
- Give the matrix view a good makeover. More routing flexibility (hardware out? midi channels other than 1?), more options for cell playback, and most of all: consistent playback (no longer dropping MIDI notes, playing things out of sync, etc).
YES! and record into cells, full track headers per row, edit content of cells -- in other words being able to actually work in the matrix w/o constantly having to switch to TV.
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lfm
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Re:Sonar X2 Wish List
2011/08/20 04:04:40
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From X2 I wish that Cake carefully examine S8.5 and putting all effort getting that stuff into X-series. Too many reveal stuff they miss.
Otherwise just stability and carefully test program and installers. Installers has been to much of a problem for too many.
I'd rather see they take a year to do this - than having an impossible deadline at end of this year - and a deja vue of X1 release.
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trimph1
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Re:Sonar X2 Wish List
2011/08/20 06:39:33
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FastBikerBoy
pwal
x1's not even out yet and there's a x2 wish list already?
Yeah I'm confused. I've seen the X1 'Highlights' list but I haven't seen the definitive "What's new" & bug fix list yet. Where is it? Anyone like to link me please......
Wait untill next week...when several X3 threads will show up. 
The space you have will always be exceeded in direct proportion to the amount of stuff you have...Thornton's Postulate. Bushpianos
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