Bristol_Jonesey
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Re:Sonar X2 in December or more modules and updates for X1?
2012/03/22 11:17:05
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It seems to me that a lot of the Naysayers complaints revolve around Cakewalk developing Sonar in such a way that these users feel "tied in" to continue using Cakewalk products.
What a fascinating concept! Developing tools that only your own customer base can use and something that the opposition doesn't possess. How on earth can this be a bad thing - for Cakewalk?
You guys really ought to listen to what you're saying, it's childish & laughable.
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lfm
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Re:Sonar X2 in December or more modules and updates for X1?
2012/03/22 11:19:01
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John T
Don't see how you can be "sure" there would be VST support, that's nothing but speculation. And currently, the number of VST3-only plug-ins around is not huge. There's a case for adding it of course, but not adding it hasn't *shrunk* the choices available. And you also have the choice to *not* invest in the expanded stuff, if you prefer not to.
Well, that the kind of choice that you have in countries with totalitarian regims as well, you can vote and not vote  You obviously think PC and Expanded are not taking resources away from anything else. I do - it's common sense. - "And currently, the number of VST3-only plug-ins around is not huge. " Your focus is already away from VSTs. Cake is winning the battle. Good luck 
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John T
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Re:Sonar X2 in December or more modules and updates for X1?
2012/03/22 11:20:37
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Oh man, what absolutely rubbish. There's no smiley in the world smiley enough to make that totalitarian cobblers any less mindless than it is.
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lfm
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Re:Sonar X2 in December or more modules and updates for X1?
2012/03/22 11:22:02
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Bristol_Jonesey
It seems to me that a lot of the Naysayers complaints revolve around Cakewalk developing Sonar in such a way that these users feel "tied in" to continue using Cakewalk products.
What a fascinating concept! Developing tools that only your own customer base can use and something that the opposition doesn't possess. How on earth can this be a bad thing - for Cakewalk?
You guys really ought to listen to what you're saying, it's childish & laughable.
I never said it was bad for Cake. It's very good for Cake that everybody is jumping when they say "jump". My perspective is users solely.
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John T
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Re:Sonar X2 in December or more modules and updates for X1?
2012/03/22 11:22:37
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As for the resources argument, you can say that about anything. Time spend on Matrix view, which I don't use, could have been spent on something that I do use. Thing is, I comprehend that they're not making stuff bespoke for me alone. Thing about the Expanded / Pro Channel stuff is that it actually is its own product line and revenue stream. If you don't buy it, then your money is *not* being spent on it.
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John T
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Re:Sonar X2 in December or more modules and updates for X1?
2012/03/22 11:23:01
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This argument is simply too stupid to continue with.
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Sickvision 
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Re:Sonar X2 in December or more modules and updates for X1?
2012/03/22 11:25:31
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i dont think they painted them self in, there user base is growing and there marketing structure seems solid,
there aware im shure the limitations or everything would be pluged like the prochannel plugs.
i may not be a fan of there marketing structure but.
i cant deny that, when i saw the intire built in prechannel plug in action it was a workflow dream.
if all is solid and good with x1 now as we think. then i guess what other direction can they go.
but to just add alot more features . i would like to see the stuff like SD and v vocal get a make over.
and i would like to see, v vocal built in a prochannel format.its in need of some help since we all bounce stuff right after we use it, so where shure it dont crash out projects, so its a good match , fix v vocal and make a new plug to sell, now that i would call progress.
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lfm
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Re:Sonar X2 in December or more modules and updates for X1?
2012/03/22 11:29:17
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John T
This argument is simply too stupid to continue with.
I'm still not sure who you are arguing with, you have not found the way to "Quotes" yet Some prefer to call everybody stupid that does not agree with them.
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John T
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Re:Sonar X2 in December or more modules and updates for X1?
2012/03/22 11:54:03
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Some people do do that, yeah, but that's not the case here. I'm saying that your point about "less choice" doesn't stand, and I've explained why. So we're left with two possibilities; you're just being a troll in sticking to it, or you actually are too stupid to understand. Both of those lead to the same conclusion: no point carrying on.
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michaelhanson
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Re:Sonar X2 in December or more modules and updates for X1?
2012/03/22 12:33:32
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I guess I am confused by this train of thought as well.
How can you have "less choice" when you have more options?
I am guessing that it is the paying for options that bothers some. I look at it this way, though, if I am in the market for a new LA2 Compressor plug in, I can either buy one from Waves, T- Racks, etc., or buy the one that Cake is about to put out. It is still my choice though, just another option, and certainly not less choice. It will not transfer to another DAW, but that is my choice if I buy it. I don't feel like I am just jumping on the band wagon either....me and my money are hard to part with. I am making an educated conscous decision which way I decide to purchase.
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stevec
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Re:Sonar X2 in December or more modules and updates for X1?
2012/03/22 12:40:49
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or you actually are too stupid to understand I dunno John... I actually agree with your premise here, but "name calling" really doesn't help. Me? I like ProChannel, and no, I am not "painted into a corner". If I was given a choice between VST3 and PC I would choose PC, because I have no dire need for VST3 at this point. So regardless of how you want to spin it, there is a market for ProChannel and I happen to fall into that segment. It has absolutely nothing to do with the "say jump" theory either - if I didn't like what PC is and does, I simply wouldn't be using it. For example, I made the decision to purchase Melodyne and no longer use V-Vocal. But my choice doesn't make V-Vocal any less useful for those that are using it. Can V-Vocal be used outside of SONAR?
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Sickvision
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Re:Sonar X2 in December or more modules and updates for X1?
2012/03/22 12:41:36
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lfm
John T
This argument is simply too stupid to continue with.
I'm still not sure who you are arguing with, you have not found the way to "Quotes" yet
Some prefer to call everybody stupid that does not agree with them.
ya stupid is not a word i would use since everyone here can at least, get around sonar, or a computer. lets just all agree on one thing, we could be crying to cakwalk to patch there broken daw. but at this point seems most of us have thing running smooth since where nickpicking about the next version. that for all we know is already being tested,time will tell what cake will do with its, next expantion ,update ,or makeover
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John T
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Re:Sonar X2 in December or more modules and updates for X1?
2012/03/22 12:43:00
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Apologies if I wasn't clear. I don't think he's too stupid to understand, I think he's trolling.
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stevec
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Re:Sonar X2 in December or more modules and updates for X1?
2012/03/22 12:43:11
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...but at this point seems most of us have thing running smooth since where nickpicking about the next version. One of the best things I've read from you yet. And so true. 
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stevec
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Re:Sonar X2 in December or more modules and updates for X1?
2012/03/22 12:53:15
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Apologies if I wasn't clear. I don't think he's too stupid to understand, I think he's trolling. lfm has been around for a few years, so I don't think it's really trolling, per se. However, it seems he may be stuck on a perspective based on speculation on what could have been, had things been done in an entirely different way. But I don't think VST3 would have been added even without PC, just based on previous posts from the Bakers to that effect. Personally, I'm just enjoying what we have in front of us.
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pwal
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Re:Sonar X2 in December or more modules and updates for X1?
2012/03/22 12:56:43
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:Sonar X2 in December or more modules and updates for X1?
2012/03/22 12:59:17
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Am I thinking wrong here???
If the PC modules nay sayers main complaint is that they can't be used in other DAWs, can I safely assume that they would be happy if Cakewalk released two versions?
The PC only version for us "jump to our tune" PC only users and then a second VST "use in any DAW" version which would still come with the PC version. Of course that version would be more expensive to reflect the non-tied usage, say double the PC only version. That would still put them in the lower price range end of the comparitive alternate VSTs.
Nay sayers opinions on that thought train please.
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pwal
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Re:Sonar X2 in December or more modules and updates for X1?
2012/03/22 13:01:22
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i'd like to use 2 instances of [something] pc module on the same track without ridiculous bussing hoops to jump through - how's that?
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stevec
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Re:Sonar X2 in December or more modules and updates for X1?
2012/03/22 13:29:06
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i'd like to use 2 instances of [something] pc module on the same track without ridiculous bussing hoops to jump through There's something I can't really argue with... particularly when it comes to EQ... Perhaps that would help convert a few Pro Channel naysayers into yaysayers. Just sayin.
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trimph1
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Re:Sonar X2 in December or more modules and updates for X1?
2012/03/22 14:30:35
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Comparing Cakewalk to a totalitarian country? OY!!!   My parents left what was to become East Germany just before the iron curtain went up...talk about getting too close to Godwin's Law here... Wow.
The space you have will always be exceeded in direct proportion to the amount of stuff you have...Thornton's Postulate. Bushpianos
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pwal
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Re:Sonar X2 in December or more modules and updates for X1?
2012/03/22 14:32:42
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i suspect it was just a "my way or the highway" rather than a "my way or die"... but that's what people forget - noone's forcing them to use sonar...
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trimph1
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Re:Sonar X2 in December or more modules and updates for X1?
2012/03/22 14:40:50
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I don't know. It seems a lot of people are getting into more non-VST3 related formats as well. Look at Reason...Rack Extensions. PT with their AAX/RTAS scenarios, and such.
There are a lot more choices out there...a lot more.
And, for that I am glad that Cakewalk has taken the opportunity to go that route as well.
The space you have will always be exceeded in direct proportion to the amount of stuff you have...Thornton's Postulate. Bushpianos
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pwal
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Re:Sonar X2 in December or more modules and updates for X1?
2012/03/22 14:45:31
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well, pt & reason are the only ones? i think the moan is about resources going on that (pc mod dev), rather than more global/generic improvements/fixes... just some kind of roadmap would be useful :) and fwiw, i'm not sure it's a sound business plan (it's certainly not a technical decision) as they're excluding anyone who doesn't own sonar-ex...
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trimph1
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Re:Sonar X2 in December or more modules and updates for X1?
2012/03/22 15:10:30
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Well, I guess Pluggo became Max4Live and the Kore2 wrapper thing went south as well. There are certain FL fx generators that seem to fall into that grey area as well.
But it seems that there is a lot of ideas being flung around. Some of this may be placed at the feet of Steinberg's push to have VST3 and the lack of support that came about for it.
As far as a roadmap goes, I find that X1d has answered a lot of concerns and ....well...may they carry on with X2.
The space you have will always be exceeded in direct proportion to the amount of stuff you have...Thornton's Postulate. Bushpianos
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re:Sonar X2 in December or more modules and updates for X1?
2012/03/22 15:36:59
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pwal
well, pt & reason are the only ones? i think the moan is about resources going on that (pc mod dev), rather than more global/generic improvements/fixes... just some kind of roadmap would be useful :) and fwiw, i'm not sure it's a sound business plan (it's certainly not a technical decision) as they're excluding anyone who doesn't own sonar-ex...
Well that's not true. The last update to X1D was applicable to both Expanded & non-Expanded users, so you're a little off the mark there.
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John T
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Re:Sonar X2 in December or more modules and updates for X1?
2012/03/22 15:40:00
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What he means is that stuff that he doesn't like shouldn't be worked on at all. I think he's onto something, and if he's got the money to pay the entire annual wage bill for a DAW-making team by himself, I will set one up right now. Sounds like a dream business. In more senses than one.
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pwal
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Re:Sonar X2 in December or more modules and updates for X1?
2012/03/22 16:06:28
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pwal
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Re:Sonar X2 in December or more modules and updates for X1?
2012/03/22 16:21:01
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jonesy, i thought one needed expanded to use pc modules? (i didn't mean to exclude unexpanders from updates) ta
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re:Sonar X2 in December or more modules and updates for X1?
2012/03/22 16:27:33
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I don't know if it was this thread or another one, but somebody speculated that the coders implementing bug fixes would be a totally different team to the one desigining new plugins, which sounds altogether reasonable.
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michaelhanson
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Re:Sonar X2 in December or more modules and updates for X1?
2012/03/22 16:56:53
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Bapu and I were having that conversation on the first page. I don't see why Cake would not run their progaming development unlike any other software company. They typically divide up in teams and have specific assignments. It's not like 2 guys are developing in their garage, get up each morning and say..."Hey, what should we work on to day."
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