pwal
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Re:Sonar X2 in December or more modules and updates for X1?
2012/03/22 18:35:01
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lfm
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Re:Sonar X2 in December or more modules and updates for X1?
2012/03/23 06:13:34
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stevec
Apologies if I wasn't clear. I don't think he's too stupid to understand, I think he's trolling.
lfm has been around for a few years, so I don't think it's really trolling, per se. However, it seems he may be stuck on a perspective based on speculation on what could have been, had things been done in an entirely different way. But I don't think VST3 would have been added even without PC, just based on previous posts from the Bakers to that effect.
Personally, I'm just enjoying what we have in front of us. 
It's the future of Sonar that I'm looking forward too as well - that is my concern. And my posts was a reaction to many posts wanting to expand Expanded concept in absurdum. - What for? was my general reaction, seing VSTs as the main pluginsource. Why waste resources on a native pluginformat - which will make Cake control what you can plugin there. It would take resources from other things like workflow improvements of different sorts. I resent the way Cake is going with Producer and native addons - so I'm staying with SE. I see where this is going - and I don't want to support it with my money. Things usually done through the excellent VST interface are now built into the gui in a way that narrow peoples options in the long run. On top of this Cake is building their native plugin format. So when everybody is asking for more stuff for Expanded instead of buying VSTs on the free market, they can remove the VST interface alltogether. That is what I see for the future - being the strategy behind the scenes. Just my view - nothing more than that really. You can't agree with everyone - and some can't even read, or simply want to twist the essence of what I'm saying. Nothing I can do about that. 
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re:Sonar X2 in December or more modules and updates for X1?
2012/03/23 06:30:52
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Do you honestly & realistically believe that VST support will be removed from future Cakewalk products?
Sorry, but this idea is absurd and reeks of paranoia.
If I'm wrong you can call me out when it happens.
CbB, Platinum, 64 bit throughoutCustom built i7 3930, 32Gb RAM, 2 x 1Tb Internal HDD, 1 x 1TB system SSD (Win 7), 1 x 500Gb system SSD (Win 10), 2 x 1Tb External HDD's, Dual boot Win 7 & Win 10 64 Bit, Saffire Pro 26, ISA One, Adam P11A,
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lfm
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Re:Sonar X2 in December or more modules and updates for X1?
2012/03/23 06:48:07
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Bristol_Jonesey
Do you honestly & realistically believe that VST support will be removed from future Cakewalk products?
Sorry, but this idea is absurd and reeks of paranoia.
If I'm wrong you can call me out when it happens.
Check this out and you might see what is upcoming next: http://www.kvraudio.com/f../viewtopic.php?t=345003 I say - don't go there with these new native formats that just about every vendor is creating. It has one sole purpose - tying you up as a customer, narrow your options to what they decide. Can nations go broke? We didn't think that not long ago. Am I paranoid - you decide!
post edited by lfm - 2012/03/23 06:56:05
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:Sonar X2 in December or more modules and updates for X1?
2012/03/23 06:49:07
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If VST support is removed, I'll be at the front of the queue complaining. Let's get a grip on reality here though. Unless the VST format goes the same way as the DX format that isn't going to happen is it.
I am more than happy for support & improvements to continue on VSTs, staff view, matrix and all the other parts of the program I barely ever use. I just wish those who, for reasons I cannot comprehend, have a real downer on the PC would stop trying to stop development on it.
It is IMHO an excellent addition to the program that is really starting to come into its own now.
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lfm
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Re:Sonar X2 in December or more modules and updates for X1?
2012/03/23 07:21:28
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FastBikerBoy
If VST support is removed, I'll be at the front of the queue complaining. Let's get a grip on reality here though. Unless the VST format goes the same way as the DX format that isn't going to happen is it.
I am more than happy for support & improvements to continue on VSTs, staff view, matrix and all the other parts of the program I barely ever use. I just wish those who, for reasons I cannot comprehend, have a real downer on the PC would stop trying to stop development on it.
It is IMHO an excellent addition to the program that is really starting to come into its own now.
I'm all for what makes Cake make money so they stay in business and give us new versions of everything. For those that ever played chess, and was in the situation looking a number moves ahead - crap, I'm mate in just a few moves - knows what I'm talking about. It's a bit late to complain when it's too late. The KVR thread shows with 6 pages of posts since yesterday, that I'm not alone in my prediction.
post edited by lfm - 2012/03/23 07:28:53
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michaelhanson
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Re:Sonar X2 in December or more modules and updates for X1?
2012/03/23 07:28:40
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I just wish those who, for reasons I cannot comprehend, have a real downer on the PC would stop trying to stop development on it.
Exactly. I don't see how Cake could stop development of the base program...how could they...what would make you upgrade to X2 if they did? They surely aren't going to abandon PC....it appears to be greatly successful for them. So much so, that they are churning out some REALLY good plug ins that work for PC; plugs that are starting to hold there own with the major plug companies. Check out the sound tests on the new LA2 plug that Middleman has done. PC does nt take anything away from any one, if you don't like it, close it and just use the FX Box for vst's. Of course that has been beat like a dead horse. I am wondering if they will continue to develop vst plugs in the future, or just work on the development of the core program. There are certainly things they could do to improve the core program. What it comes down to though is sales. They have to determine what is going to make you want to buy the next X2. Are plug ins going to get you to buy, or improved base program? They have to consider that they have several audiences, old faithful users that might not need much more than what they already have, and new users. They are a company that is in business to make money, expand there market share, and still put out a product that is the most attractive to the most users. They more units they sell, the more developers they can hire, the more possibilities that they will actually get the specific thing you might want added, worked on.
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lfm
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Re:Sonar X2 in December or more modules and updates for X1?
2012/03/23 07:34:03
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MakeShift
They more units they sell, the more developers they can hire, the more possibilities that they will actually get the specific thing you might want added, worked on.
That's a really scary thought - then Cake got you exactly where they want you. - Tapping your fingers and waiting for possibly having Cake develop what you need. With Vsts there is a whole world out there sensing the needs of people. You want one vendor only - then go for PC and everything in it.
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:Sonar X2 in December or more modules and updates for X1?
2012/03/23 07:47:24
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lfm
MakeShift
They more units they sell, the more developers they can hire, the more possibilities that they will actually get the specific thing you might want added, worked on.
That's a really scary thought - then Cake got you exactly where they want you.
- Tapping your fingers and waiting for possibly having Cake develop what you need.
With Vsts there is a whole world out there sensing the needs of people.
You want one vendor only - then go for PC and everything in it.
That's the whole thrust of my argument really. I like the PC, I'm using and buying into it, you don't - you prefer VSTs - that's fine. There is a whole world of VSTs out there that you can buy and use, go for it. If I end up with a PC that suddenly becomes useless how on earth does that affect you as you haven't bought into it? Leave me to carry on into my fool's paradise and you can carry on using VSTs. I can't see where there's a problem. 
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trimph1
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Re:Sonar X2 in December or more modules and updates for X1?
2012/03/23 07:49:58
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A lot of Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt lay around here.
The program still handles DX for crying out loud. When was the last time anyone developed anything DX?
Formats change all the time. ASCII was out of circulation by the end of the 1990's...if one wants to there are all kinds of OS's that went as well...we just went from 32bit to 64bit and we are still seeing some development of 32bit plugins...
As for PC only...mmmmm...I have yet to see anyone develop IK's AT3.7 for PC...
So one can relax .... the end of the world ain't happening ....
The space you have will always be exceeded in direct proportion to the amount of stuff you have...Thornton's Postulate. Bushpianos
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John T
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Re:Sonar X2 in December or more modules and updates for X1?
2012/03/23 07:51:22
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It must be weird to carry that level of neurosis around all day. I mean, I'm worried about all kinds of things, all the time, but none of them are audio plug in formats.
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John T
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Re:Sonar X2 in December or more modules and updates for X1?
2012/03/23 07:52:51
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Incidentally, there are *already* two vendors of PC modules. So this evil plan of locking people into one vendor really isn't going very well.
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trimph1
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Re:Sonar X2 in December or more modules and updates for X1?
2012/03/23 07:55:08
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What is really funny is that a friend of mine still uses his PII based computer for music making with all kinds of VST's in it running on an a tracker program...and is still loving how it still works for him... 
The space you have will always be exceeded in direct proportion to the amount of stuff you have...Thornton's Postulate. Bushpianos
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:Sonar X2 in December or more modules and updates for X1?
2012/03/23 08:44:40
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Here's a question........
If VST development stopped today, right now, who here wouldn't be able to cope and produce good music?
No didn't think the problem was that big.......
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keith
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Re:Sonar X2 in December or more modules and updates for X1?
2012/03/23 08:58:05
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MakeShift
They surely aren't going to abandon PC....it appears to be greatly successful for them.
Yes, we all know that cakewalk has a history of developing good ideas to their fullest potential... [he said sarcastically]
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John T
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Re:Sonar X2 in December or more modules and updates for X1?
2012/03/23 08:58:21
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In fairness, I suppose the question is more the other way around. Some people seem to be concerned about VST support in hosts going away. I have to say, this seems incredibly unlikely to me. In just the specific case of Sonar, a *huge* amount of the value proposition to the customer is in the bundled VSTs.
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:Sonar X2 in December or more modules and updates for X1?
2012/03/23 09:03:41
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"...a *huge* amount of the value proposition to the customer is in the bundled VSTs."
:-)
...not to mention that all the Pro Channel stuff IS actually Steinberg's VST technology that we pay extra for so that we can not use it in any other DAW that runs VSTs.
:-)
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lfm
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Re:Sonar X2 in December or more modules and updates for X1?
2012/03/23 09:05:54
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FastBikerBoy
Here's a question........
If VST development stopped today, right now, who here wouldn't be able to cope and produce good music?
No didn't think the problem was that big.......
Me, for one... No Vst effects and no VST instruments, then the idea of computer based recording is gone for me. I would revert back to portastudio....I like physical faders and stuff.
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:Sonar X2 in December or more modules and updates for X1?
2012/03/23 09:08:40
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lfm
FastBikerBoy
Here's a question........
If VST development stopped today, right now, who here wouldn't be able to cope and produce good music?
No didn't think the problem was that big.......
Me, for one...
No Vst effects and no VST instruments, then the idea of computer based recording is gone for me.
I would revert back to portastudio....I like physical faders and stuff.
I think you mis-understood me, I didn't mean the existing ones would be taken away, I meant no new ones produced.....
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trimph1
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Re:Sonar X2 in December or more modules and updates for X1?
2012/03/23 09:08:52
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Wait a minute...
Did anyone say that there will be NO VST support ?
No...did not think so.
The space you have will always be exceeded in direct proportion to the amount of stuff you have...Thornton's Postulate. Bushpianos
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michaelhanson
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Re:Sonar X2 in December or more modules and updates for X1?
2012/03/23 09:14:47
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MakeShift
They surely aren't going to abandon PC....it appears to be greatly successful for them.
Yes, we all know that cakewalk has a history of developing good ideas to their fullest potential...
Well, I am talking in the near future of course. I don't think anything in the software world is going to be long term. It has to keep evolving and changing or you fall behind and have nothing to sell. PC is the course they have taken for the near future. If it continues to sell, it will continue to be developed. That is all I am saying. We can suggest things that we would like to see in the future and maybe if Cake sees the suggestions enough, they will develope them. After all, one of the first suggestions that was made by many when PC first came out was that an LA2 would be a great addition. Pultec was mentioned often as well. The only real vote that we have on any thing is with our pocket book. If it does n't sell, it won't be developed.
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John T
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Re:Sonar X2 in December or more modules and updates for X1?
2012/03/23 09:15:14
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trimph1
What is really funny is that a friend of mine still uses his PII based computer for music making with all kinds of VST's in it running on an a tracker program...and is still loving how it still works for him...
Fatboy Slim's main computer is still an Atari ST. Wonder if he feels creatively held back by the grey colour.
http://johntatlockaudio.com/Self-build PC // 16GB RAM // i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz // Nofan 0dB cooler // ASUS P8-Z77 V Pro motherboard // Intel x-25m SSD System Drive // Seagate RAID Array Audio Drive // Windows 10 64 bit // Sonar Platinum (64 bit) // Sonar VS-700 // M-Audio Keystation Pro 88 // KRK RP-6 Monitors // and a bunch of other stuff
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lfm
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Re:Sonar X2 in December or more modules and updates for X1?
2012/03/23 09:21:17
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FastBikerBoy
lfm
FastBikerBoy
Here's a question........
If VST development stopped today, right now, who here wouldn't be able to cope and produce good music?
No didn't think the problem was that big.......
Me, for one...
No Vst effects and no VST instruments, then the idea of computer based recording is gone for me.
I would revert back to portastudio....I like physical faders and stuff.
I think you mis-understood me, I didn't mean the existing ones would be taken away, I meant no new ones produced.....
Yes, I got you wrong. It would still make me prepare plan B, when VST support is taken away. Eventually that would happend. There will be new OS'es demanding changes to plugins etc. Today there are no worries....I'm preparing for the next couple of years doing full time music production. It's beyond that horizon my worries are....will investments today soon to be a waste....
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John T
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Re:Sonar X2 in December or more modules and updates for X1?
2012/03/23 09:23:55
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What is plan b? Tinned food in the basement? Cabin in the hills and a rifle?
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:Sonar X2 in December or more modules and updates for X1?
2012/03/23 09:23:57
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keith
MakeShift
They surely aren't going to abandon PC....it appears to be greatly successful for them.
Yes, we all know that cakewalk has a history of developing good ideas to their fullest potential...
[he said sarcastically]
So Cakewalk abandon the PC.... I still fail to see how that affects those that haven't chosen to buy into it in the first place.
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John T
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Re:Sonar X2 in December or more modules and updates for X1?
2012/03/23 09:26:57
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It's a fantastically meta kind of complaint, isn't it? "If I bought this thing that I don't want and haven't bought, I'd feel a bit cheated if some hypothetical scenario came about in relation to it". Well, who hasn't felt like that before?
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Jind
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Re:Sonar X2 in December or more modules and updates for X1?
2012/03/23 09:29:42
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Whats somewhat humorous to me is that for quite sometime it was a frequent conversation point that Cakewalk should stop forcing customers to pay for synths they already had, for plugins that would not be used because of the quality of third party VST options availlable, for .... well you get the drift. Well the day comes when Cakewalk listen to this concern and go to an À la carte system for additional plugins where if you don't want it, you can choose not to buy it - leaving the choice to have it or not up to the end user, and guess what the end result is - people complain that either they are not getting it for free, or that it's an evil plot to reduce the functionality of the core product.
Funny how these things work.
ProChannel seems to be (from the development effort put towards it and the quality of modules released) a successful product for Cakewalk, one that is generating revenue for them. I can't possibly see how that's a bad thing. I've bought into the concept for similar reasons to others - I like the way it works into my workflow. Will I buy every PC module? Who knows - if I find the plugin useful to me, I will buy it. I could choose to spend my money on third party plugins as well - but it's my choice, one of the benefits of an À la carte system. For many years Cakewalk has had portions of it's development dedicated to optional components for the various levels of their base product - this is nothing new. The core product remains.
Jind Sonar X2 PE, Cakewalk V Studio 100; Intel i7 w/ 16 GB Ram, MS Windows 8.1
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:Sonar X2 in December or more modules and updates for X1?
2012/03/23 09:29:59
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Yes, I got you wrong.
It would still make me prepare plan B, when VST support is taken away.
Eventually that would happend.
I'm willing to take a pretty big bet that VST support doesn't disappear in the next 10 years. As someone has pointed out DX is still supported and that died a death nearly 10 years ago IIRC. There will be new OS'es demanding changes to plugins etc.
That's progress, else I'd still be on an Amiga and others on Win 3.1 Today there are no worries....I'm preparing for the next couple of years doing full time music production.
It's beyond that horizon my worries are....will investments today soon to be a waste....
Why would investing money in today's developments be a waste? If I never ever bought another computer or piece of software or hardware ever again, I still have what I've paid for to use and make music with. I could carry on making music for the next hundred years with the equipment I have now, breakdowns permitting of course, but they can be fixed. I've still got several friends that pay huge amounts of money for hi-fi units made 20 or 30 years ago. It ain't suddenly gonna get turned off like a tap.
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John T
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Re:Sonar X2 in December or more modules and updates for X1?
2012/03/23 09:30:54
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Well, Jind, there you go. And thus the people who just like to complain reveal themselves.
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trimph1
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Re:Sonar X2 in December or more modules and updates for X1?
2012/03/23 09:32:50
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The space you have will always be exceeded in direct proportion to the amount of stuff you have...Thornton's Postulate. Bushpianos
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