ba_midi
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Re:Sonar crashes yet again - Time to drop it
September 28, 10 10:24 PM
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scxy11
Having paid good money for it I just expect it to work. Some of us are not made of money and music is a hobby. Sonar was a big investment for me.
You're confusing it with a toaster.
LOL that's a great line!
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Victoria C
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Re:Sonar crashes yet again - Time to drop it
September 28, 10 10:25 PM
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I know exactly how you feel it happens to me all the time!!! BUT...and this is a big but Sonar has alot tooffer believe me I have had a pure fit with it, however its worth it, when you learn how to really utilize it, its worth the hassle secondly I can pretty much feel when its about to crash and its usually when I am doing editing an I edit while the song plays back or I am using a lot of plug ins after I re open it, its fine I have learned the hard way to save everything after each scratch in case sonar closes Im not making excuses but there isnt a software around that has all of sonars capabilities it either has one and lacks the other or visa versa I would say check your requirements against the requirements off your sonar version look at your and look at your audio preferences (latency etc) I hope this helps good luck!
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John
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Re:Sonar crashes yet again - Time to drop it
September 28, 10 10:56 PM
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ba_midi
John
As for the OP's problem - the fact that the midi activity indicator stays on after Sonar exits is clearly a bad sign. Something is stuck there. If rebooting doesn't solve it, my guess would be that the faulty device is somehow disabled/blocked by Windows. I must have missed this very critical piece of information. I don't know which post has it in it but if so then it is a MIDI device that is causing the problem. This should be a very simple thing to troubleshoot. All the OP needs to do is start Sonar with no MIDI install or on. Then goto the MIDI options and deselect any reference to a MIDI device. Close Sonar and restart with only one device hooked up. Goto Options MIDI and select that device and see if on closing Sonar leaves the MIDI activity still on. If so then this it problem if not repeat for each device.
A quick way is do not do any of the above and simply unplug each MIDI device in turn until the MIDI activity is no longer on after closing Sonar. The one that causes the indicator to go off and exit is the problem device.
John,
I was the one who originally asked the OP if the MIDI icon stayed or not -- and I, too, didn't see (or missed) his answer.
However, it should be said that by itself it does not mean there's a MIDI device that's the 'sole' or 'main' culprit. There are situations where a bad plugin will crash a system along with Sonar and Sonar doesn't get a chance to execute a formal exit/shutdown of itself and the devices it loads.
So, in simple terms, it may be another clue and may be a direct clue -- but it also may not be. It has to be investigated, however.
Well it will give him something to do besides complaining.
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Goseba
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Re:Sonar crashes yet again - Time to drop it
September 28, 10 11:02 PM
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ba_midi
scxy11
Having paid good money for it I just expect it to work. Some of us are not made of money and music is a hobby. Sonar was a big investment for me.
You're confusing it with a toaster.
LOL that's a great line!
Hilarious......and oh so helpful. It is pointless posts like these that make it easy to miss relevent posts.
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Goseba
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Re:Sonar crashes yet again - Time to drop it
September 28, 10 11:05 PM
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John
ba_midi
John
As for the OP's problem - the fact that the midi activity indicator stays on after Sonar exits is clearly a bad sign. Something is stuck there. If rebooting doesn't solve it, my guess would be that the faulty device is somehow disabled/blocked by Windows.
I must have missed this very critical piece of information. I don't know which post has it in it but if so then it is a MIDI device that is causing the problem. This should be a very simple thing to troubleshoot. All the OP needs to do is start Sonar with no MIDI install or on. Then goto the MIDI options and deselect any reference to a MIDI device. Close Sonar and restart with only one device hooked up. Goto Options MIDI and select that device and see if on closing Sonar leaves the MIDI activity still on. If so then this it problem if not repeat for each device.
A quick way is do not do any of the above and simply unplug each MIDI device in turn until the MIDI activity is no longer on after closing Sonar. The one that causes the indicator to go off and exit is the problem device.
John,
I was the one who originally asked the OP if the MIDI icon stayed or not -- and I, too, didn't see (or missed) his answer.
However, it should be said that by itself it does not mean there's a MIDI device that's the 'sole' or 'main' culprit. There are situations where a bad plugin will crash a system along with Sonar and Sonar doesn't get a chance to execute a formal exit/shutdown of itself and the devices it loads.
So, in simple terms, it may be another clue and may be a direct clue -- but it also may not be. It has to be investigated, however.
Well it will give him something to do besides complaining.
And on the previous page I was appreciating your comments and now you have a dig at me, cheers.
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Goseba
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Re:Sonar crashes yet again - Time to drop it
September 28, 10 11:15 PM
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Midi icon.............I answered this in post #54 on the same page the question was asked. To clarify, when Sonar is working, the midi icon goes when Sonar exits. It was only when Sonar crashed at start-up that the midi icon remained until rebooting. (Edit reason - typo)
post edited by Goseba - September 28, 10 11:16 PM
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Goseba
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Re:Sonar crashes yet again - Time to drop it
September 28, 10 11:18 PM
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Goseba
ba_midi
scxy11
Having paid good money for it I just expect it to work. Some of us are not made of money and music is a hobby. Sonar was a big investment for me.
You're confusing it with a toaster.
LOL that's a great line!
Hilarious......and oh so helpful. It is pointless posts like these that make it easy to miss relevent posts.
Just wanted to point out the last line of the post above was mine but got caught up in the quote.
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johnnyV
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Re:Sonar crashes yet again - Time to drop it
September 28, 10 11:35 PM
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Pardon our humor, but it is an important aspect of this forum, We need comic relief because sometimes these threads start heading for the dark side.
We all want you to get that system working smoothly because it is our mission! You won't get out of here alive!
Give any one of us 2 hours with your computer and we'll make it work or tell you you need new parts. It's not the software, it never is. If it is then send it back for a refund or replacement.
Sonar X3e Studio - Waiting for Professional Scarlett 6i6Yamaha Gear= 01v - NSM 10 - DTX 400 - MG82cx Roland Gear= A 49- GR 50 - TR 505 - Boss pedalsTascam Gear= DR 40 - US1641 -Mackie Gear= Mix 8 - SRM 350's i5 Z97 3.2GHZ quad 16 Gig RAM W 8.1 home buildTaylor mini GS - G& L Tribute Tele - 72 Fender Princeton - TC BH 250 - Mooer and Outlaw Pedals Korg 05/RW
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wormser
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Re:Sonar crashes yet again - Time to drop it
September 28, 10 11:42 PM
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Skimmed the thread so don't shoot me if I missed something already answered.
1. It's not your Delta card unless it's broken. Those cards have always been amongst the most stable IMHO. Occasional not so good drivers, but they get them sorted out and you can always go back.
2. Substitute "Cubase, Reaper, Protools, etc" for Sonar and you can find this kind of thread in every manufacturer's forum.
3. What works for one person doesn't necessarily work for others. Only generalities can be formed. An example of this is the current Cubase x64 problems. There are a LOT of people having troubles so it's fair to say the software has problems of some sort.
I've been using Cake since it fit on a floppy and I have always been the person with few if any problems. I would read posts like this and wonder what the poster was doing "wrong".
That was until I hit Sonar 7.
I could not make that work well worth a crap.
I got dropouts, poor performance with VST's and so forth.
It didn't really crash much other than the audio engine puking but I never got the performance I should have or that others in this group were getting on similar systems.
I'm an experienced user, more or less, and none of the usual tricks were working for me. My hardware was proven mainstream and worked fine with Sonar 6 and every other DAW program I tried.
I almost tossed Sonar at that point but it was usable so I remained faithful.
Enter Sonar 8.0 and all my troubles disappeared, like magic.
Haven't had a problem since.
Point is, I feel your pain and I would keep at it.
Maybe try a fresh Windows install and try using your on board sound chip just as a test. Or a cheap Soundblaster you might have laying around etc.
Install just Windows, drivers and then immediately Sonar.
Don't even plug your NIC card in.
Also memtest86 is a pretty good memory diagnostic.
Google it.
Best of luck to you and keep reporting back!
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scxy11
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Re:Sonar crashes yet again - Time to drop it
September 28, 10 11:50 PM
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You're confusing it with a toaster.
LOL that's a great line!
Hilarious......and oh so helpful. It is pointless posts like these that make it easy to miss relevent posts.
I should apologize--it was a bit arch, but I am making a point. You're acting like a computer is an appliance, which has a very simple mission (yet even those malfunction quite a bit). Computers are meta-appliances, in that they are an appliance that can be morphed to do billions of things. This is a very new paradigm in human history (only about 50 years old). You, my friend, are on the bleeding edge of history. What I would say about Sonar is that it's incredibly feature rich while existing in a very complex environment. That it has problems at times isn't surprising given this. So, I'd say to you--what's the cost-benefit equation here? Let's say you found 1 single thing that someone told you that corrected your problem and you began experiencing crashes only very rarely, yet got to use all that functionality? Wouldn't it then be worth it to have made the effort? I think you are making big conclusions from small facts. You are having issues, not accepting that you might have to do some up-front work to arrive at an environment that will work for you because you 'paid good money' for the product, and it offends you that it's not working like an appliance. Now, you have a judgment to make. If you believe fundamentally that the product is flawed and life with it will be a never-ending series of heartbreak events, then you should go off to wherever. However, if you believe what so many are telling you and that there is a solution to the problem if you put in some up-front work, you may be rewarded. For me, I am relatively new to this product (only about 1 year+) and I've had to learn quite a bit, particularly using it with Kontakt and Garritan. There were times when I thought 'when do I get to the music?' Still, I came to accept that you have pay your dues, as the incredibly helpful and experienced people here know. I'm very close to completing a piece of music I wanted to orchestrate for 25 years, and it finally sounds like what's been in my head all this time. That's very rewarding. If you can go off to Cubase land or wherever and never have problems and have all the functionality you'd like on the machine you're using, then bless you and God-speed.
post edited by scxy11 - September 29, 10 1:23 AM
Sonar X1 | Kontakt 4 64 | Garritan Band 64/Aria | Windows 7 Ultimate | Dell 8 core 12Gb | SB Audigy 2 ZS
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Rain
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Re:Sonar crashes yet again - Time to drop it
September 29, 10 0:00 PM
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Goseba
Midi icon.............I answered this in post #54 on the same page the question was asked.
To clarify, when Sonar is working, the midi icon goes when Sonar exits.
It was only when Sonar crashed at start-up that the midi icon remained until rebooting.
(Edit reason - typo) Let me clarify the best I can in spite of the language barrier and my less than stellar skills. When Sonar is working, the midi icon goes when Sonar exits. Ok, as it should. It was only when Sonar crashed at start-up that the midi icon remained until rebooting. That's our clue. Sonar is probably having issues w/ a device, or conflicting devices. It calls the device, something goes wrong, and from there on, even if you reboot, Sonar and the device just won't talk to each other. What makes it perplexing is that it just starts to happen (apparently) for no reason. But since it happens constantly, there is a pattern, so it most likely can be solved. You may have answered this already but at this point, though I'd like to help, I don't have the courage to go through this entire thread - Sonar suddenly start crashing at start-up, correct? This is not something that starts happening after it crashes on you while you were working or when you last closed it?
post edited by Rain - September 29, 10 0:02 PM
TCB - Tea, Cats, Books...
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Goseba
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Re:Sonar crashes yet again - Time to drop it
September 29, 10 0:25 PM
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scxy11
You're confusing it with a toaster.
LOL that's a great line!
Hilarious......and oh so helpful. It is pointless posts like these that make it easy to miss relevent posts.
I should apologize--it was a bit arch, but I am making a point. You're acting like a computer is an appliance, which has a very simple mission (yet even those malfunction quite a bit). Computers are meta-appliances, in that they are an appliance that can be morphed to do billions of things. This is a very new paradigm in human history (only about 50 years old). You, my friend, are on the bleeding edge of history.
What I would say about Sonar is that it's incredibly feature rich while existing in a very complex environment. That it has problems at times isn't surprising given this.
So, I'd say to you--what's the cost-benefit equation here? Let's say you found 1 single thing that someone told you that corrected your problem and you began experiencing crashes only very rarely, yet got to use all that functionality? Wouldn't it then be worth it to have made the effort?
I think you are making big conclusions from small facts. You are having issues, not accepting that you might have to do some up-front work to arrive at an environment that will work for you because you 'paid good money' for the product, and it offends you that it's not working like an appliance.
Now, you have a judgment to make. If you believe fundamentally that the product is flawed and life with it will be a never-ending series of heartbreak events, then you should go off to wherever. However, if you believe what so many are telling you and that there is a solution to the problem if you put in some up-front work, you may be rewarded.
For me, I am relatively new to this product (only about 1 year+) and I've had to learn quite a bit, particularly using it with Kontakt and Garritan. There were times when I thought 'when do I get to the music?' Still, I came to accept that you have pay your dues, as the incredibly helpful and experienced people here know. I'm very close to completing a piece of music I wanted to orchestrate for 25 years, and it finally sounds like what's been in my head all this time. That's very rewarding.
If you can go off to Cubasis land or wherever and never have problems and have all the functionality you'd like on the machine you're using, then bless you and God-speed.
No worries. It just feels like kick a man when he's down sort of thing. After my initial frustration I have been trying to work this out as my posts show. What doesn't help is when people come in and have a dig about me leaving Sonar etc (even misquoting me as saying I am going off to Cubase even though I have never mentioned it or have any intention to) when they obviously haven't followed the whole thread. I have worked through some of the suggestions and having reinstalled it is up and running again, although I had probabaly only around half an hour playing with it. I am reluctant to do much else at this time because I want to see if those changes have made a difference first. If I get the same crash again I already have a few more things lined up to try. Making too many changes now could be detrimental to solving it. I will work at it slowly. If you look back at earlier posts you will see I have had good experiences with Cakewalk (even though I had to use get-arounds with Project 5). It would only be that Sonar was too unreliable to use that I would drop it. And to be honest at the moment I have my concerns. Maybe I am thinking of Sonar as an appliance and expecting it to work without problems, just like my other DAW appliances have. 
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Goseba
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Re:Sonar crashes yet again - Time to drop it
September 29, 10 0:34 PM
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Rain
Goseba
Midi icon.............I answered this in post #54 on the same page the question was asked.
To clarify, when Sonar is working, the midi icon goes when Sonar exits.
It was only when Sonar crashed at start-up that the midi icon remained until rebooting.
(Edit reason - typo)
Let me clarify the best I can in spite of the language barrier and my less than stellar skills.
When Sonar is working, the midi icon goes when Sonar exits.
Ok, as it should.
It was only when Sonar crashed at start-up that the midi icon remained until rebooting.
That's our clue. Sonar is probably having issues w/ a device, or conflicting devices. It calls the device, something goes wrong, and from there on, even if you reboot, Sonar and the device just won't talk to each other.
What makes it perplexing is that it just starts to happen (apparently) for no reason. But since it happens constantly, there is a pattern, so it most likely can be solved.
You may have answered this already but at this point, though I'd like to help, I don't have the courage to go through this entire thread - Sonar suddenly start crashing at start-up, correct? This is not something that starts happening after it crashes on you while you were working or when you last closed it?
A few weeks ago I went to use Sonar and it crashed on start up straight away. I ended up uninstalling/reinstalling and all was ok again. I used it once or twice after and all was OK. Then a couple of days ago I was using Sonar and had to break off for 15 minutes or so. I exited Sonar but left the pc and all the hardware left on knowing I would be back soon. Then when I started Sonar after this short break the crash on start up occurred again (and soon after that, this thread started). I was pissed off to say the least. If I tried to start Sonar at the point it was crashing, I would get the Sonar splash screen briefly, then the Microsoft box offering to send the error. The midi icon would then stay on. After rebooting, the icon was gone until I tried to start Sonar again. Now I have reinstalled again, it is ok again.
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ba_midi
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Re:Sonar crashes yet again - Time to drop it
September 29, 10 1:07 AM
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Goseba,
Do you know how to check for IRQ conflicts? If you do - have you done so?
The more I read and re-read some of this thread, I'm still pretty convinced it's hardware or hardware driver related -- but it does also start to sound like and IRQ conflict.
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John
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Re:Sonar crashes yet again - Time to drop it
September 29, 10 1:13 AM
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Rain
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Re:Sonar crashes yet again - Time to drop it
September 29, 10 1:15 AM
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Yikes, ok. That's a tough one... The best I can do for now is to try and help keep this on-topic, maybe someone will get an idea. :s In the meantime, keep us posted. I'll think about it...
I understand how frustrating this can be when you only have a few hours to spend on working on your music and you have to spend that time troubleshooting - from that perspective, if Cubase or Reaper or a Fostex or whatever works for you does it, w/ minimal drawbacks, so be it - getting those songs out of your system is what matters. I'm sure you know that all those applications have their bugs, but if overall they work for you...
But since you're a member since 2006, I guess that you're probably used to Sonar and that wouldn't be the ideal option for you. No matter how people word it, I guess all we're trying to say here is that Sonar can work - and it does for many, many of us - but then something as insignificant as a driver update can make it all go wrong (been there, done that, bought a t-shirt).
That being said, if you end up having a bit of time to spare, I'd opt for a previously stated option. Run Sonar with the minimal components enabled: Sonar + audio device. Then Start adding Midi devices, one by one...
TCB - Tea, Cats, Books...
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Goseba
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Re:Sonar crashes yet again - Time to drop it
September 29, 10 1:24 AM
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ba_midi
Goseba,
Do you know how to check for IRQ conflicts? If you do - have you done so?
The more I read and re-read some of this thread, I'm still pretty convinced it's hardware or hardware driver related -- but it does also start to sound like and IRQ conflict.
I will double check to be sure but I am certain it is one of the many things I checked last time it crashed.
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Goseba
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Re:Sonar crashes yet again - Time to drop it
September 29, 10 1:30 AM
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John
Or heat.
Do you mean the CPU overheating? If so, I can check the CPU temp the next time I am using the PC, it always ran at reasonable temperatures. The ambient temperatures here are currently around 16 degrees during the day so that should not affect things.
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Goseba
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Re:Sonar crashes yet again - Time to drop it
September 29, 10 1:37 AM
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Thanks for the comments Rain. I've only had Sonar since December last year but I have a fair amount of experience with other hosts, including P5 which I own and many years ago Pro Audio 9 which a friend I did music with had.
Thinking back, Pro24 on the Atari crashed more then than Sonar does now for me, so Sonar hasn't been my worst sequencer software experience!
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ba_midi
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Re:Sonar crashes yet again - Time to drop it
September 29, 10 1:38 AM
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Goseba
John
Or heat.
Do you mean the CPU overheating? If so, I can check the CPU temp the next time I am using the PC, it always ran at reasonable temperatures.
The ambient temperatures here are currently around 16 degrees during the day so that should not affect things.
CHeck the CPU fan while you're at it. A few years back I had a system that did really strange things, without any pattern to it. It turns out it was an intermittent cpu fan. Cost me 4 bucks to replace, that system then ran great for another 2 years. So it just goes to show that almost anything can cause a system problems. You may ask so why only Sonar? There can be many reasons. Each product handles devices and drivers differently - which is why some applications expose problems others don't. And that's just ONE scenario. There are many. Which is also why a strategical and logical approach to debugging is so necessary.
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montezuma
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Re:Sonar crashes yet again - Time to drop it
September 29, 10 1:43 AM
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Goseba
And on the previous page I was appreciating your comments and now you have a dig at me, cheers.
Yeah he'll do that
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lorneyb2
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Re:Sonar crashes yet again - Time to drop it
September 29, 10 1:59 AM
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Is your clock running properly or have you had to adjust time/date? A low/dead motherboard bios battery can cause a variety of problems. Long shot, but sometimes it's the simplest things. In looking at your motherboard specs it looks like it could be old enough that the battery could be going dead.
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Goseba
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Re:Sonar crashes yet again - Time to drop it
September 29, 10 5:55 AM
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An update.
No IRQ conflicts.
Time and date ok.
I have had Sonar running in a loop with 35 tracks, a mixture of audio, midi going to each connected device and 18 instances of NI Massive, for well over an hour now. More than I would usually have for a track.
Core temperatures had a minimum of 33 and a maximum of 38 during this time.
Then with Sonar still running, for a bit of extra stress I opened Record and still Sonar was running ok.
The core temp peaked at 41 while Record was loading. I think these temperatures are quite reasonable.
This is obviously a positive position compared to a few days ago and I would like to thank those who made a positive contribution in this thread.
Time will tell if I have the crash at start up problem occur again; all I can do is keep my fingers crossed that one of the actions I have done has put an end to the problem.
I delayed posting this and now, after nearly an hour and 3/4 non stop running, I have stopped Sonar. It closed down fine and opened without a problem.
Lets hope that is the end of the crashes.
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re:Sonar crashes yet again - Time to drop it
September 29, 10 6:15 AM
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I don't know if this has been mentioned at all during this thread, but have you checked your power management settings in Windoze?
Make sure everything is set to "Always on", or "Turn off - Never".
As a matter of routine maintenance, I'd be inclined to whip the covers off and give it a good clean (no, not with Mr Sheen <doh>), use a can of compressed air to clean up the fans/heatsinks etc.
Does your PSU deliver enough power to run everything you want safely?
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Goseba
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Re:Sonar crashes yet again - Time to drop it
September 29, 10 6:20 AM
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I have it set to always on apart from the screen. I had the covers of yesterday to check out the motherboard and it was surprisingly clean, certainly not obviously dusty like I have seen in the past.
I cant answer about the PSU though.
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Goseba
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Re:Sonar crashes yet again - Time to drop it
September 29, 10 8:20 AM
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I know this is off topic, but this place is full of w**kers isn't it. By chance I have come across 2 threads where I have seen people having a dig about the people who are dropping Sonar. Fairly obvious they are talking about me, yet they made pointless comments in this thread that offered no benefit or support to solving the problem. It's trolls like these that get forums a bad reputation. EDIT: Full was the wrong word to use. I should have said that it has some.
post edited by Goseba - September 29, 10 8:23 AM
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re:Sonar crashes yet again - Time to drop it
September 29, 10 8:50 AM
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After spending years on the BBC's 606 forums, I've acquired an inbuilt filtering system that automatically kicks in whenever posts like that appear, and as a consequence, I don't even see them!
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mudgel
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Re:Sonar crashes yet again - Time to drop it
September 29, 10 8:50 AM
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I guess the reality is that a lot of folks around here put in a of of time not only with SONAR but on this forum trying to help folks with the problems they're having with SONAR and their setups.
It makes for quite a few folks talking things pretty seriously whether that's right or wrong is not for me to say.
Unfortunately your subject line and opening post kind of immediately polarised people as to how they view you and so you got comments not about the subject but about the post itself. It makes for interesting reading at times but perhaps rather than talking about folks as you do in the post above mine you could focus on the help you've recieved; after all you're complained how people have spoken to and about you. Now after having received some help you want to stick it to some folks again. Your own words were that if you don't like a comment why reply. so why make inflammatory remarks?
Glad things are starting to work out for you.
anyway just a couple of aussie cents worth from me.
BTW I was just down in Geelong visiting some friends.
Mike V. (MUDGEL) STUDIO: Win 10 Pro x64, SPlat & CbB x64, PC: ASUS Z370-A, INTEL i7 8700k, 32GIG DDR4 2400, OC 4.7Ghz. Storage: 7 TB SATA III, 750GiG SSD & Samsung 500 Gig 960 EVO NVMe M.2. Monitors: Adam A7X, JBL 10” Sub. Audio I/O & DSP Server: DIGIGRID IOS & IOX. Screen: Raven MTi + 43" HD 4K TV Monitor. Keyboard Controller: Native Instruments Komplete Kontrol S88.
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Goseba
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Re:Sonar crashes yet again - Time to drop it
September 29, 10 8:51 AM
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Here is just one example to back up my comment. In this thread where I have said my audio card is an M-Audio Delta 2496. Sijel
but he needs to get a good engineered machine, one of the many great audio interfaces, and load only Sonar on it.
In another thread where someone else is asking about another M-Audio Delta card. Sijel
got my M-Audio Delta 1010LT working but someone suggested that those cards are pretty outdated Was it one of the people that complain they are dropping Sonar because they can't get it to work?!
D'OH!
And Sijel
The Delta is fine! I had the Delta 66 for YEARS and I produced commercial songs with it.
Only reason I changed was that the Alien had no PCI slots.
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Beagle
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Re:Sonar crashes yet again - Time to drop it
September 29, 10 8:58 AM
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Goseba
Here is just one example to back up my comment.
In this thread where I have said my audio card is an M-Audio Delta 2496.
Sijel
but he needs to get a good engineered machine, one of the many great audio interfaces, and load only Sonar on it.
In another thread where someone else is asking about another M-Audio Delta card.
Sijel
got my M-Audio Delta 1010LT working but someone suggested that those cards are pretty outdated
Was it one of the people that complain they are dropping Sonar because they can't get it to work?!
D'OH!
And
Sijel
The Delta is fine! I had the Delta 66 for YEARS and I produced commercial songs with it.
Only reason I changed was that the Alien had no PCI slots.
two things: 1) when you start out a thread with a title that says you're disgruntled and leaving sonar then that is not a request for help, that is just a complaint and people will usually jump in and start complaining back. you did good by changing the thread title to asking for help instead of saying "time to drop it" but the damage was already done. next time consider asking for help instead of threatening to leave and people will be less likely to jump on you for your rant. 2) get some big boy panties and quit worrying about what everyone else is doing in other threads referencing you. so what if this has spilled over into other threads because of your initial rant? it isn't hurting you. just continue to work on solving the problem you have with the folks who are trying to help you and get on with recording and making music! then write a song about those jerks in the other threads...
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