yorolpal
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RE: Superior 2.0 WOW
2008/07/15 23:34:35
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Well, you get a goodly number but the interesting thing is that unlike EZD or the EZXs you have to access the grooves from EZPlayerPro and not Superior 2.0. In fact Superior doesn't even have a groove screen. I understand why Toon did this but I wish they'd let you access the groove screen from it just like the other EZD kits. But EZPlayerPro is such a wonderful tool it is no shortcoming to have to utilize it to get to the grooves.
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mlockett
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RE: Superior 2.0 WOW
2008/07/16 18:31:45
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I would add that the midi that comes with S2 is... well... superior to the midi that comes with EZD and EZXs. Subjectivelty, they seem more organic to me; objectively, most of them are 2-measure sequences, whereas EZD are mostly 1-measure sequences.
The ability to have complete mixer presets with panning, fx, outputs and all is a huge benefit IMHO.
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Dave Modisette
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RE: Superior 2.0 WOW
2008/07/16 19:11:45
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EZplayer Pro gives you the ability to drag grooves or individual kit pieces into the EZPP arranger as well as into your host. Using EZPP as a staging area really can help you get organized. Create a sketch pad by dragging your grooves first in a Track in EZPP's track arranger. Choose your candidates for verses into an EZPP track called Verses. Do the same for choruses and the bridge on separate EZPP tracks.
Then drag them into SONAR from there. If you drag a collection from the same EZD or SUP 2 folder, you won't have to wonder where a similar groove might reside. Plus, if you let EZPP split the instruments out you can mix and match hi hats, snares and kicks to come up with quick alternate versions. Save the EZPP as a project and name it the same thing as your SONAR project. Next time you need it, you'll have all the grooves right there where you need them.
As mentioned, the grooves get stronger every release as well as the host program but that's likely because it's becoming cumulative. The product and product line will be getting stronger and stronger as even products release a year or two ago are being improved and refined.
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bobr
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RE: Superior 2.0 WOW
2008/07/16 19:22:05
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ORIGINAL: mcgoo
ORIGINAL: vicsant
Which Roland kit would you guys recommend to properly trigger the Superior 2.0?
you might also check out the Trapkat kit from Alternate Mode. Strictly a MIDI controller (no internal sounds). Pretty small footprint in your studio for a 25 piece drum set! 
I recently added a Trapkat to our studio. It really is a great unit. I really lik the Hat Pedal (hi-hat) and Fat Pedal (bass Drum) as well.
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Duojet
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RE: Superior 2.0 WOW
2008/07/16 19:22:47
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ORIGINAL: Mod Bod
EZplayer Pro gives you the ability to drag grooves or individual kit pieces into the EZPP arranger as well as into your host. Using EZPP as a staging area really can help you get organized. Create a sketch pad by dragging your grooves first in a Track in EZPP's track arranger. Choose your candidates for verses into an EZPP track called Verses. Do the same for choruses and the bridge on separate EZPP tracks.
Then drag them into SONAR from there. If you drag a collection from the same EZD or SUP 2 folder, you won't have to wonder where a similar groove might reside. Plus, if you let EZPP split the instruments out you can mix and match hi hats, snares and kicks to come up with quick alternate versions. Save the EZPP as a project and name it the same thing as your SONAR project. Next time you need it, you'll have all the grooves right there where you need them.
As mentioned, the grooves get stronger every release as well as the host program but that's likely because it's becoming cumulative. The product and product line will be getting stronger and stronger as even products release a year or two ago are being improved and refined.
Dave, what's up with the track template bug in sonar. the vst does not remember any settings.....i am using 6.2.1, but do you get this in sonar 7?
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Dave Modisette
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RE: Superior 2.0 WOW
2008/07/16 22:53:20
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Dave, what's up with the track template bug in sonar. the vst does not remember any settings.....i am using 6.2.1, but do you get this in sonar 7? I'm seeing that behavior too. I will report that and see what can be done.
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Susan G
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RE: Superior 2.0 WOW
2008/07/17 03:11:25
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Hi Dave- Just wondering out loud... Now that Superior 2.0 allows mix 'n matching EZD kits and they offered the crossgrade and all, does that mean EZDrummer will no longer be offered/developed as a separate product? Only if you know and can say, of course! Thanks- -Susan
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mudgel
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RE: Superior 2.0 WOW
2008/07/17 04:31:02
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Just received my Superior 2 upgrade. All installed. Now to play. See you later.
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Internalized Sun
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RE: Superior 2.0 WOW
2008/07/17 06:01:15
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ORIGINAL: bobr
I recently added a Trapkat to our studio. It really is a great unit. I really lik the Hat Pedal (hi-hat) and Fat Pedal (bass Drum) as well.
Sorry for the highjack - does the Trapkat have a higher resolution with the Hi-Hat Pedal? I have the Yamaha Xpress III and I'm not very impressed with the Hi-Hat pedal - the drum brain does actually output 4 different CC numbers, but the 2 in the middle ones are being output so close together pressing the pedal - and I've REALLY tried to adjust the pedal (not much to adjust though), so it's a pain to get 3/4 open notes... Dennis P out!
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mcgooze
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RE: Superior 2.0 WOW
2008/07/17 06:09:00
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ORIGINAL: fessorman
does the Trapkat have a higher resolution with the Hi-Hat Pedal?
It's not quite as good as the Roland, but it's pretty good. It actually offers two different modes- 1 to do CC control to open & close (like Roland) & one to access different samples / note numbers depending on its position / depression.
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Dave Modisette
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RE: Superior 2.0 WOW
2008/07/17 08:07:49
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ORIGINAL: Susan G
Hi Dave-
Just wondering out loud... Now that Superior 2.0 allows mix 'n matching EZD kits and they offered the crossgrade and all, does that mean EZDrummer will no longer be offered/developed as a separate product? Only if you know and can say, of course!
Thanks-
-Susan
EZdrummer is still the best bang for the buck drum sampler out there. More EZXs are on the way and you will continue to see updates for it in the future. However, the vision for the EZdrummer product is a very user friendly, accessible sampler for song writers. Short on learning curve and easy on the pocket book. If it doesn't fit the vision for the "EZ" products, it won't get in. So.... if by developement you mean, is there a chance that the product will get "EZ-er", there is a good chance of that. If you mean will they bloat it down with a lot of tweakable parameters.... I can't speak for them and I don't know for sure...but I wouldn't bet on it.
post edited by Mod Bod - 2008/07/17 08:34:56
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Blackwaters End
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RE: Superior 2.0 WOW
2008/07/17 10:57:50
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ORIGINAL: mcgoo
It's not quite as good as the Roland, but it's pretty good. It actually offers two different modes- 1 to do CC control to open & close (like Roland) & one to access different samples / note numbers depending on its position / depression. I've seen some reference to the Roland hi-hat implementation being better than others. I'm curious if anyone can explain this in more detail. I have a Roland TD-3 and I'm wondering if it has the ability to take full advantage of S2.0's features - it may impact whether I bother to upgrade or not. (Anecdotally: my cousin is a drummer and has a Yamaha electronic kit and has complained about the hi-hat not working well...exactly what he meant by that I'm not sure. But when he played on my TD-3 he said the hi-hat acted the same way that his Yamaha kit does.) I know that for many drummers the current electronic kits don't really measure up to the real thing. I'm just wondering if S2.0 helps to resolve any of these issues...can anyone explain what drummers don't like about electronic hi-hats? Thanks!
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mcgooze
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RE: Superior 2.0 WOW
2008/07/17 11:09:45
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ORIGINAL: Blackwaters End
I know that for many drummers the current electronic kits don't really measure up to the real thing.
I'm just wondering if S2.0 helps to resolve any of these issues...can anyone explain what drummers don't like about electronic hi-hats?
as a keyboard playing drummer wanna be, that spent many years in Music retail selling electronic drums, I can tell you that drummers tend to be the worst at embracing technology. If a snare drum breaks a head, a drummer replaces the head. If the snares are too loose, he tightens it. If a trigger false triggers, he says it's crap & doesn't work. There are exceptions of course; look at drummers that take the time to learn about electronic drums (check out Glennbo's stuff), & you'll see that the limitations aren't near as limiting as most drummers say they are.
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Blackwaters End
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RE: Superior 2.0 WOW
2008/07/17 11:20:49
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ORIGINAL: mcgoo
as a keyboard playing drummer wanna be, that spent many years in Music retail selling electronic drums, I can tell you that drummers tend to be the worst at embracing technology. If a snare drum breaks a head, a drummer replaces the head. If the snares are too loose, he tightens it. If a trigger false triggers, he says it's crap & doesn't work.
Well whaddaya expect from guys who thump on stuff for a living?  But I think earlier in this thread it was mentioned a couple of times that the Roland hi-hat implementation was better. Why?
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Susan G
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RE: Superior 2.0 WOW
2008/07/17 14:13:22
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Ok, thanks for the reply, Dave.
-Susan
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Jose7822
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RE: Superior 2.0 WOW
2008/07/17 20:12:40
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ORIGINAL: Blackwaters End
ORIGINAL: mcgoo
as a keyboard playing drummer wanna be, that spent many years in Music retail selling electronic drums, I can tell you that drummers tend to be the worst at embracing technology. If a snare drum breaks a head, a drummer replaces the head. If the snares are too loose, he tightens it. If a trigger false triggers, he says it's crap & doesn't work.
Well whaddaya expect from guys who thump on stuff for a living?
But I think earlier in this thread it was mentioned a couple of times that the Roland hi-hat implementation was better. Why?
I'm not a drummer but I did have an 'el cheapo' Yamaha kit for a month at one time (borrowed from a friend of mine), so I'm just talking about my experience with it. I was using it with DFHS 1.5 (at the time) and noticed that the Hi-Hat didn't play much of the in-between sounds as a real HH does. Basically, I only had the following sounds: tight, semi-closed and opened HH sounds but not much else. I believe people are saying that you can get more detail out of Roland HH as they are modeled to be closer to the real thing which enables you to play more of the in-between sounds. It was also harder to play the specific sounds I wanted with the Yamaha kit (specially the closed HH sound), but then again it is the cheapest model they sell so that could have been the problem. In conclusion, I think that this is what people are refering to when they say that Roland's HH implementation is better. Anyone correct me if I'm wrong as I'm no drummer (I only hit them once in a while  ). HTH
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bobr
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RE: Superior 2.0 WOW
2008/07/17 21:58:09
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I have not upgraded to Superior 2.0 yet but I plan to. I am currently using EZDrummer and have a couple of the expansion packs. EZDrummer works very good with the Trapkat and I am sure Superior will be superior. I'm looking forward to it. I think that all of these programs like Superior, EZD, Addictive, BFD etc. are really changing the landscape of what you can achieve with a digital kit or triggering device. Regarding some of the questions and comments above about the hat pedal, I have made some comments below. the Hi-Hat didn't play much of the in-between sounds as a real HH does. Basically, I only had the following sounds: tight, semi-closed and opened HH sounds but not much else. I believe people are saying that you can get more detail out of Roland HH as they are modeled to be closer to the real thing which enables you to play more of the in-between sounds. Yes I think that's the jist of it. The in-betweens. i.e. when the Hi-hat is not fully open or fully closed. And how authentic can you get the sound and feel to respond. It requires a "Continuos Controller" capable pedal and brain/plugin. Now I must state my disclaimer that I am not a drummer. I just try to play any instrument that I can get my hands on but primarily play guitar. I have played drums on occasion but not much. So my experience with the feel of a "real" Hi-Hat is limited. Regarding the specific pedal I have with the Trapkat, it's called the HAT Pedal. They have 3 or 4 different pedals they offer on their web site so I wanted to be clear which one I'm talking about. It does support the "Continuos Controller" feature. The Trapkat itself supports it in the sense that it has parameters to set what it calls the "CHICKS" There are "OPEN", "CLOSED" and "CHICKS". And "CHICKS" are the in-betweens and the TrapKat allows you to assign those variables coming from the HAT Pedal. I feel like it does very good on the "in-betweens" of the hi-hat. I've never tried the roland one so I can't compare it to that but to me it seems to have a good feel. I have not tried to tweak it yet but according to the manual, you can set many chicks or in-betweens as long as it is supported by your brain/plugin. There are specific instructions to hook the HAT Pedal up to the Roland unit's and it supports the "Continuos Controller" data that the Roland unit requires. I hope that helps some regarding the Trapkat and the HAT Pedal. Take care, Bob
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Philip
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RE: Superior 2.0 WOW
2008/07/17 22:34:25
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I have EZ-Drummer and wonder how seemlessly it would be ... with my 'time-spent' EZ-MIDI tracks on prior projects.
Will I be able to uninstall EZ-D completely and use Superior Drummer 2.0 instead ... as a complete upgrade?
(Also, Susan, thanks for your $219 lead)
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yorolpal
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RE: Superior 2.0 WOW
2008/07/17 23:13:44
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No Philip, DO NOT uninstall EZD! You will be able to use it with Superior 2.0 and any EZX you have as well. Please understand tho that Superior is not as "easy" as EZDrummer as Dave alluded above. It is a more comprehensive and powerful program than EZDrummer but allows much more control and "tweakability" than EZD. That being said it is very intuitive and is a joy to use. It complements EZD but does not replace it. You can use both in many different situations. If you are not into very detailed control of every aspect of your drum mix then you might stick with EZD and the EZXs. If, however, you need more detailed control of your drum kits, Superior 2.0 is a true wonder.
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Al Nico
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RE: Superior 2.0 WOW
2008/07/18 09:43:22
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I have a quick question....
I have EZD and the Nashville EXP and am wondering if Superior 2.0 has a large Groove library or is it mainly just improved sounds that you need to provide loops for???
How many loops does it come with compared to EZD or the Nashville???
Thanks for your time,
AL
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Glennbo 
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RE: Superior 2.0 WOW
2008/07/18 12:24:27
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But I think earlier in this thread it was mentioned a couple of times that the Roland hi-hat implementation was better. Why? For me, I only hear one or two in-betweens from open to closed using my Roland hihat. What sets the Roland apart for me is that both with the internal sounds of the V-Drums, and when triggering EZD, DFHS, or the new Superior 2.0, it it's ability to do "hihat foot splashes". This is where you "pop" the hihat pedal, which produces a sound similar to marching band cymbals. On my acoustic drum kit I play live and on my pad kit, I use the crap out of that effect, doing quarter note hihat splashes while playing eighth note hits on the ride cymbal. You can hear it pretty plainly at about the 0:37 mark when I switch to ride cymbal in this test. http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_songInfo.cfm?bandID=403575&songID=6334230
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mcgooze
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RE: Superior 2.0 WOW
2008/07/18 12:46:48
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ORIGINAL: Glennbo
For me, I only hear one or two in-betweens from open to closed using my Roland hihat. What sets the Roland apart for me is that both with the internal sounds of the V-Drums, and when triggering EZD, DFHS, or the new Superior 2.0, it it's ability to do "hihat foot splashes". The "hat kat" pedal does this for the Trapkat (& drumkat) also. Physically, I think the Roland feels more like a hihat pedal than the hat kat does though.
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Internalized Sun
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RE: Superior 2.0 WOW
2008/07/18 12:56:08
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ORIGINAL: Glennbo
What sets the Roland apart for me is that both with the internal sounds of the V-Drums, and when triggering EZD, DFHS, or the new Superior 2.0, it it's ability to do "hihat foot splashes". This is where you "pop" the hihat pedal, which produces a sound similar to marching band cymbals. My Yamaha DTXpress III does this too - the problem is getting it to play a 3/4 open Hi-Hat - the pedal needs to be in exact position (give or take 1 mm) for that particular note (or CC), which is quite hard to put your foot in angle for and keep it there. I'm not sure about the BFD 2 yet, but BFd 1.5 had the ability to set different tolerances for the different notes, which seems quite clever, if only the brain would send out more than the 4 different CC's, then the brain would have decoupled itself from its own limitations and make it possible for other drum brains/plugins to utilize the entire range of CC's. Is such a pedal and brain really that impossible to find? /Dennis P
2+4 ~ 5?!? Why don't I get the math behind DSP programming?! Windows 10 Pro x64 , i7 980X, 12GB RAM Sonar Platinum Music made at home with Sonar 5/6/8 Producer and Sonar Platinum Edition at: http://soundcloud.com/internalized-sun
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Glennbo
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RE: Superior 2.0 WOW
2008/07/18 13:08:54
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ORIGINAL: fessorman
ORIGINAL: Glennbo
What sets the Roland apart for me is that both with the internal sounds of the V-Drums, and when triggering EZD, DFHS, or the new Superior 2.0, it it's ability to do "hihat foot splashes". This is where you "pop" the hihat pedal, which produces a sound similar to marching band cymbals.
My Yamaha DTXpress III does this too - the problem is getting it to play a 3/4 open Hi-Hat - the pedal needs to be in exact position (give or take 1 mm) for that particular note (or CC), which is quite hard to put your foot in angle for and keep it there.
I'm not sure about the BFD 2 yet, but BFd 1.5 had the ability to set different tolerances for the different notes, which seems quite clever, if only the brain would send out more than the 4 different CC's, then the brain would have decoupled itself from its own limitations and make it possible for other drum brains/plugins to utilize the entire range of CC's.
Is such a pedal and brain really that impossible to find?
/Dennis P
On my kit, the hihat pad is dual trigger, so I have it set such that full closed has a tight "tip" sound in the center of the pad, and on the edge is a looser closed sound. When the hihat pedal is up, I get full long sustaining open hihat in the center of the pad, and sloshy half open on the edge. There are of course at least a couple in-betweens when the pedal is less than full open or closed, but I find having the additional pad striking zones to be very effective as I hit different areas on my real acoustic hihat as well.
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Philip
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RE: Superior 2.0 WOW
2008/07/18 15:07:31
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Very well, Steve;
Thankyou very much for the clarification.
I ordered the Superior 2.0 Crossgrade today based on the raves, histeria, and aligning of the planets.
I'm hoping I can still get rid of EZD, ultimately ... for tidiness sake and/or because EZD does have one annoying bug on my system (i.e., EZD has to remain visible to work correctly).
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yorolpal
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RE: Superior 2.0 WOW
2008/07/18 15:55:11
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Well, you won't have to "open" EZD in order to use it as you'll just select it if you want from your kit options in Superior. But you WILL need to have it installed on your system so Superior can load it.
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Dave Modisette
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RE: Superior 2.0 WOW
2008/07/18 18:56:02
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ORIGINAL: yorolpal
Well, you won't have to "open" EZD in order to use it as you'll just select it if you want from your kit options in Superior. But you WILL need to have it installed on your system so Superior can load it.
Actually, Superior doesn't care whether EZD is there or not. You can buy the EZXs and use them in SUPERIOR 2 without EZD.
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Duojet
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RE: Superior 2.0 WOW
2008/07/18 19:25:02
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ORIGINAL: Mod Bod
ORIGINAL: yorolpal
Well, you won't have to "open" EZD in order to use it as you'll just select it if you want from your kit options in Superior. But you WILL need to have it installed on your system so Superior can load it.
Actually, Superior doesn't care whether EZD is there or not. You can buy the EZXs and use them in SUPERIOR 2 without EZD.
Dave, do you know if superior2 contains all of the kit pieces in ezdrummer?
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DigiBiu
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RE: Superior 2.0 WOW
2008/07/18 19:31:28
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Superior only comes with the Avatar kit. If you already have ezdrummer, then Superior will use the samples also, but, no, it does not come with Ezdrummer kits.
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Dave Modisette
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RE: Superior 2.0 WOW
2008/07/18 22:15:29
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The Pop/Rock kit in EZdrummer is a small version of the AVATAR kit. There's some presets to mimic the Pop/Rock kit included. So there's no need for the default EZdrummer kit. EDIT: But also, there's no reason not to have it either. EZdrummer is still a great product and if you are hashing out a song, you can't beat it for simplicity and great sound.
post edited by Mod Bod - 2008/07/18 22:45:50
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