Beepster
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Re: The LANDR Thread
2016/02/25 12:16:22
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So has anyone blasted some "extreme" metal (apparently that's what it's being called these days) into this thing yet? I'm talking soaked with distortion, complex hyper velocity drums, growler vox, etc?
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jimkleban
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Re: The LANDR Thread
2016/02/25 12:23:59
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I agree with brother Craig on bit rate perception. However, it might be a good idea to offer a standard resolution and a "hi fi" resolution (for a premium) so that those who think they can hear the difference or actually have HIGH END audio equipment can choose. So, if someone thinks that they hear a difference then there is a difference to them and they won't mind paying the premium for this Hi Def audio.
This theory applies to whatever format your music may be in (MP3, FLAC, etc.).
Just my 2 cents.
Jim
The Lamb Laid Down on MIDI www.lldom.com Studio Cat Custom i7 with Thunderbolt (wonderful system built and configured by our own Jim R) Apollo Duo (via TB) UAD Quad UAD Duo WIN 8.1 x64 with 32 GB Ram 4 SSD for programs and sample libraries Splat (latest version)
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Anderton
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Re: The LANDR Thread
2016/02/25 12:43:08
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jimkleban
I agree with brother Craig on bit rate perception. However, it might be a good idea to offer a standard resolution and a "hi fi" resolution (for a premium) so that those who think they can hear the difference or actually have HIGH END audio equipment can choose. So, if someone thinks that they hear a difference then there is a difference to them and they won't mind paying the premium for this Hi Def audio. There are two encouraging trends in that respect. First, many MP3-related patents have already expired; I believe the final ones expire in December 2017. Yes, fellow SONAR users - I think that implies that starting in 2018, Cakewalk can build in an MP3 encoder without having to pay a licensing fee. However, it's a hollow victory because... Second, Microsoft has pretty much adopted FLAC as their default audio format, and other lossless codecs are in play for Apple. Although the size reduction isn't as drastic as MP3, there is no loss in fidelity any more than zipping a word doc deletes letters. Given the ever-increasing and ever-lowering cost of memory, I believe that in the near future, the issue of which bit rate to use for encoding will be moot. People will encode to FLAC or Apple Losslesss, and be done with it. (LANDR already offers WAV, but I wouldn't be surprised if they added a FLAC option if that format continues to gain traction.)
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rabeach
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Re: The LANDR Thread
2016/02/25 12:53:58
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
That's not accurate - Landr uses Machine learning. If you look at the theory, machine learning is as accurate as the DATA its given rather than as intelligent as the programmer. Unlike conventional programming where you write an algorithm to solve a problem, machine learning is a branch of data science where the data is used to solve the problem. One definition is "Machine learning is a field of study that gives computers the ability to learn without being explicitly programmed" There is a brief overview here.
Machine learning is being used widely for all kinds of applications today including DSP, studying the brain, medicine and finance. As I mentioned earlier, our Vocal sync feature was designed using machine learning to understand how to analyze and extract data from a huge subset of vocals samples.
I'm not sure why there is so much resistance and doubt about applications that use modern science to solve problems. It sounds like a repeat of fears people had about computers taking over when I first started out in programming 35 years ago :) Did that happen - of course not, people just use them to work more efficiently now.
link to brief overview doesn't work for me
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jpetersen
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Re: The LANDR Thread
2016/02/25 12:58:18
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I've already had a band where nobody had a CD player. Pre-mixes were listened to as MP3s on phones.
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
Cakewalk Staff
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Re: The LANDR Thread
2016/02/25 13:03:38
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rabeach
link to brief overview doesn't work for me
Sorry about that - I posted the wrong link. Its updated now to the correct link
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pwalpwal
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Re: The LANDR Thread
2016/02/25 13:08:05
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"Machine learning is a field of study that gives computers the ability to learn without being explicitly programmed" they still have to be explicitly programmed to self-learn... another thought: put off using this service as the longer you leave it the more accurate the algorithms will have become (in theory) yet another: how different is this from harbal-on-a-server? ( http://www.har-bal.com/ )
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panup
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Re: The LANDR Thread
2016/02/25 13:10:54
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Since yesterday I LANDR has been very, very slow.
I'm making some tests but currently the service fails to process about half of my uploads.
Has anyone else noticed?
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bluzdog
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Re: The LANDR Thread
2016/02/25 13:26:44
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pwalpwal
yet another: how different is this from harbal-on-a-server? (http://www.har-bal.com/ )
There is nothing automatic about Har-bal, there's not even presets. The EQ section is fantastic and a great learning tool. I have never been able to get my head around the dynamics section. I would say Landr and Har-bal are apples and oranges, 2 completely different animals. Rocky
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gswitz
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Re: The LANDR Thread
2016/02/25 13:49:49
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panup
Since yesterday I LANDR has been very, very slow.
I'm making some tests but currently the service fails to process about half of my uploads.
Has anyone else noticed?
Yesterday, I had to go off one of the uploads and back to see the Low-Medium-High settings. The circle going around and around never ended. It was only from leaving and returning that I was able to listen.
StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen. I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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chilldanny
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Re: The LANDR Thread
2016/02/25 14:01:01
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panup
Since yesterday I LANDR has been very, very slow.
I'm making some tests but currently the service fails to process about half of my uploads.
Has anyone else noticed?
Just booted up to spend the evening trying out some more mixes through LANDR, opened the LANDR desktop app and got an update message:   " /> Possibly related? In any case, I'll try and upload some mixes and report back..
* Windows10 (x64), Focusrite Safire Pro24, Sonar Platinum (x64) * MacOS High Sierra, Logic Pro X, Ableton Live 9 * Danny M
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Beepster
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Re: The LANDR Thread
2016/02/25 14:05:28
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chilldanny
panup
Since yesterday I LANDR has been very, very slow.
I'm making some tests but currently the service fails to process about half of my uploads.
Has anyone else noticed?
Just booted up to spend the evening trying out some more mixes through LANDR, opened the LANDR desktop app and got an update message:
" />
Possibly related?
In any case, I'll try and upload some mixes and report back..
Seriously? The day after a major cross promo release? OMG... this is all getting clownier and clownier. Get this POC out of our main installer, please. It's obviously not ready for primetime and needs to be completely isolated from the DAW. Like not even for the NEXT monthly release. Patch the installer so users can use Newbury without this silliness. Guh!
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jpetersen
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Re: The LANDR Thread
2016/02/25 14:07:37
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I downloaded Newburyport directly, not over CCC. The installer had a new option checkbox for if you want LANDR. I have no interent in my studio so I didn't select it.
post edited by jpetersen - 2016/02/25 14:23:01
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skinnybones lampshade
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Re: The LANDR Thread
2016/02/25 14:07:55
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I've been wondering how LANDR would compare to Waves' Greg Wells MixCentric plug-in, which I've been reading about with interest lately. Would anyone have an idea? I do know that MixCentric doesn't include a limiter, but other than that, I'm wondering how they'd stack up against each other in terms of sound quality and so on.
post edited by skinnybones lampshade - 2016/02/25 14:33:48
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jpetersen
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Re: The LANDR Thread
2016/02/25 14:10:10
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The EZ Drummer people have something similar.
Time for iZotope to step up to the plate.
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panup
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Re: The LANDR Thread
2016/02/25 14:11:54
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Landr has created the last 16 minutes Low intensity preview of a 40 sec test sample. The other file I uploaded 2-3 hours ago is still in "Creating Preview" phase and I can't delete it.
SONAR users are obviously overloading the system...
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Beepster
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Re: The LANDR Thread
2016/02/25 14:13:05
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jpetersen
I downloaded Newburyport directly, not over CCC.
The installer had a new option checkbox for if you want LANDR.
It should NOT even be part of the download. I don't want it anywhere near my system now that I've seen the user reports. Sonar is a high end DAW that peple rely on for pro work (including me). This has absolutely NO place being bundled IN THE MAIN DOWNLOAD! There is no excuse for this. I was trying to be open minded about the matter but this is ludicrous. Who are these people and why are they trying to invade my workstation? Marketing... FAIL!
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Psychobillybob
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Re: The LANDR Thread
2016/02/25 14:15:08
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It seems odd to me that Cakewalk wants to be taken seriously by the industry but then instead incorporates services that no real industry engineer would use...it's like saying we want to be professional just like the amateurs are...if you think people like Brad Blackwood or other mastering guys are not worth paying then you have no idea what you are doing, if you think some paid subscription service can get even remotely close to what those guys do you are uninformed...this is a bad idea just like gobbler and you guys need to hire some real audio studio engineers to work with your product development the team you have now is missing the boat.
I'm using SOnar Platinium on a 6 core Lynx Audio machine and a ton of vintage pre-amps/eq's/comps I build for fun and sometimes money, REDD.47/API/Neve I also use the UAD stuff, and also use a Macbook Logic 9 through Apogee...
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chilldanny
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Re: The LANDR Thread
2016/02/25 14:19:30
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It took about 7mins to upload a 24bit 11mb file, which is much slower than usual and it's still busy creating the previews, so I'd agree that it seems to be slower at the moment. LANDR was also introduced to Studio One 3 I think, so perhaps it's purely a traffic thing? Beep, I installed an early version of the LANDR desktop app and chose not to reinstall via the Newburyport update, so there's a good chance that my version number would differ to the one included in the installer.
post edited by chilldanny - 2016/02/25 14:34:50
* Windows10 (x64), Focusrite Safire Pro24, Sonar Platinum (x64) * MacOS High Sierra, Logic Pro X, Ableton Live 9 * Danny M
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jpetersen
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Re: The LANDR Thread
2016/02/25 14:20:01
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Beepster
It should NOT even be part of the download. I don't want it anywhere near my system now that I've seen the user reports. Sonar is a high end DAW that peple rely on for pro work (including me). This has absolutely NO place being bundled IN THE MAIN DOWNLOAD!
You're no fan of the Style Dials either, then? ...Hey! the Style Dials! Who needs Greg Wells (or LANDR) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GHil3jRT4U
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Beepster
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Re: The LANDR Thread
2016/02/25 14:28:43
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Comparing Style Dials to this thing is no comparison at all. Style Dials are non disruptive, in the box, Cakewalk produced plugs that can be totally ignored (and I don't think they are part of the main installer).
Apples and monkey wrenches, dood.
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cparmerlee
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Re: The LANDR Thread
2016/02/25 14:44:40
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stxx
The headroom is needed so things don't get overly crunched from the get go.
People keep saying that. Please explain why their process should not always begin with a normalization step to force the headroom to exactly the amount they need for their algorithms. stxx
They apparently do not do any pre-master level adjustments so your mix level as they are submitted become the starting point.
Why not? This seems like such a no-brainer, if they haven't even figured out that much, how sophisticated can the rest of the process be?
DAW: SONAR Platinum Audio I/F: Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 gen2
OS: Windows 10 64-bit CPU: Haswell 4790 4.0 GHz, 4 core, 8 thread Memory: 16 GB Video: GTX-760Ti
Storage: Sandisk SSD 500GB for active projects. ReadyNAS 20 TB for long-term storagesonocrafters.com
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Beepster
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Re: The LANDR Thread
2016/02/25 14:46:37
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chilldanny
Beep, I installed an early version of the LANDR desktop app and chose not to reinstall via the Newburyport update, so there's a good chance that my version number would differ to the one included in the installer.
Okay, thanks for the additional info. So in that case they likely did make sure they had things sorted before the Cake release. Still doesn't change the fact there's gonna be some extra app probin' and naggin' and potentially disrupting system processes. Are there any settings in the app relating to "Auto Updates" or is always going to be hunting around for an internet connection/updates? Cheers.
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cparmerlee
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Re: The LANDR Thread
2016/02/25 14:52:35
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pwalpwal
they still have to be explicitly programmed to self-learn...
This may fall into the realm of semantics, but the "explicit programming" in this case would be embedded in the AI framework. The typical AI system consists mostly of "training" the system by feeding in data and having having the responses scored. The system "learns" how to respond to various patterns in ways that produce the best score. other than the "engine" itself, that isn't really programmed explicitly.
DAW: SONAR Platinum Audio I/F: Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 gen2
OS: Windows 10 64-bit CPU: Haswell 4790 4.0 GHz, 4 core, 8 thread Memory: 16 GB Video: GTX-760Ti
Storage: Sandisk SSD 500GB for active projects. ReadyNAS 20 TB for long-term storagesonocrafters.com
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Psychobillybob
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Re: The LANDR Thread
2016/02/25 14:52:56
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Not for professional use...
post edited by Psychobillybob - 2016/02/25 15:08:18
I'm using SOnar Platinium on a 6 core Lynx Audio machine and a ton of vintage pre-amps/eq's/comps I build for fun and sometimes money, REDD.47/API/Neve I also use the UAD stuff, and also use a Macbook Logic 9 through Apogee...
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Anderton
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Re: The LANDR Thread
2016/02/25 14:53:34
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Psychobillybob
It seems odd to me that Cakewalk wants to be taken seriously by the industry but then instead incorporates services that no real industry engineer would use...it's like saying we want to be professional just like the amateurs are...if you think people like Brad Blackwood or other mastering guys are not worth paying then you have no idea what you are doing, if you think some paid subscription service can get even remotely close to what those guys do you are uninformed...this is a bad idea just like gobbler and you guys need to hire some real audio studio engineers to work with your product development the team you have now is missing the boat.
Read pages 6 and 7. Even LANDR itself says this is NOT designed to replace traditional mastering engineers, but complement what they do. Anyone who thinks that the purpose of LANDR is to substitute robot-driven mastering on gigs normally done by professional mastering engineers is clueless about the concept. I'm a professional mastering engineer. I've already explained how it benefits professional mastering engineers if they have clients with access to LANDR.
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chilldanny
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Re: The LANDR Thread
2016/02/25 15:01:42
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Beepster
Are there any settings in the app relating to "Auto Updates" or is always going to be hunting around for an internet connection/updates?
Cheers.
In the LANDR desktop app go: File > Preferences > Account tab > Next to App settings un-tick 'Enable Notifications' One would assume this would stop update notifications, I have no idea to be honest. I only got the update prompt when opening the LANDR app, so I doubt you'd ever see it if you never use it.
* Windows10 (x64), Focusrite Safire Pro24, Sonar Platinum (x64) * MacOS High Sierra, Logic Pro X, Ableton Live 9 * Danny M
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Psychobillybob
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Re: The LANDR Thread
2016/02/25 15:03:46
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Anderton
Psychobillybob
It seems odd to me that Cakewalk wants to be taken seriously by the industry but then instead incorporates services that no real industry engineer would use...it's like saying we want to be professional just like the amateurs are...if you think people like Brad Blackwood or other mastering guys are not worth paying then you have no idea what you are doing, if you think some paid subscription service can get even remotely close to what those guys do you are uninformed...this is a bad idea just like gobbler and you guys need to hire some real audio studio engineers to work with your product development the team you have now is missing the boat.
Read pages 6 and 7. Even LANDR itself says this is NOT designed to replace traditional mastering engineers, but complement what they do. Anyone who thinks that the purpose of LANDR is to substitute robot-driven mastering on gigs normally done by professional mastering engineers is clueless about the concept.
I'm a professional mastering engineer. I've already explained how it benefits professional mastering engineers if they have clients with access to LANDR.
Craig I appreciate that you've taken the time to look at this but really, its an algorithm...no matter what style of music you throw at it, the results will be the same, how is that helpful in the slightest? Think it through, it is no different than slapping a "preset" across the master bus, the difference is it is supposed to emulate a "pre-master" preset...really? I really have a hard time believing a real mastering engineer would support this idea on any level, it's like saying "send me an mp3 so I can master it for you"...what you are describing is not mixing it is not mastering it is not engineering...it is sales and math...get back to the art of the studio, I don't find ny of this helpful or predictive except for sales, and therein is my problem Cakewalk seems to not want to play on the same playing field as the big boys, fine so be it.
post edited by Psychobillybob - 2016/02/25 15:18:10
I'm using SOnar Platinium on a 6 core Lynx Audio machine and a ton of vintage pre-amps/eq's/comps I build for fun and sometimes money, REDD.47/API/Neve I also use the UAD stuff, and also use a Macbook Logic 9 through Apogee...
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Anderton
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Re: The LANDR Thread
2016/02/25 15:05:42
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cparmerlee
stxx
The headroom is needed so things don't get overly crunched from the get go.
People keep saying that. Please explain why their process should not always begin with a normalization step to force the headroom to exactly the amount they need for their algorithms.
I don't know if LANDR does or does not normalize, but here are some really good reasons not to. - In classical music, some movements are quiet and never hit 0, let alone -6. The last thing you want is the solo harpsichord movements in the Brandenburgs coming in at 0.
- Same thing for individual cuts with chill, ambient, and new age.
- If you've spent a lot of effort balancing mixes for an album, you don't want someone to decide the balance among songs should be different.
- If indeed LANDR doesn't normalize, then that gives you a lot more control over how your mix interacts with the algorithm. Anyone who's varied the input level to a compressor or limiter knows what I'm talking about.
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Anderton
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Re: The LANDR Thread
2016/02/25 15:12:39
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Psychobillybob
Anderton
Psychobillybob
It seems odd to me that Cakewalk wants to be taken seriously by the industry but then instead incorporates services that no real industry engineer would use...it's like saying we want to be professional just like the amateurs are...if you think people like Brad Blackwood or other mastering guys are not worth paying then you have no idea what you are doing, if you think some paid subscription service can get even remotely close to what those guys do you are uninformed...this is a bad idea just like gobbler and you guys need to hire some real audio studio engineers to work with your product development the team you have now is missing the boat.
Read pages 6 and 7. Even LANDR itself says this is NOT designed to replace traditional mastering engineers, but complement what they do. Anyone who thinks that the purpose of LANDR is to substitute robot-driven mastering on gigs normally done by professional mastering engineers is clueless about the concept.
I'm a professional mastering engineer. I've already explained how it benefits professional mastering engineers if they have clients with access to LANDR.
Craig I appreciate that you've taken the time to look at this but really, its an algorithm...no matter what style of music you throw
at it, the results will be the same, how is that helpful in the slightest? Think it through, it is no different than slapping a "preset" across the master bus, the difference is it is supposed to emulate a "pre-master" preset...really?
I really have a hard time believing a real mastering engineer would support this idea on any level.
What in the following from the linked material does not make sense to you as why I would welcome clients having access to this: As a professional mastering engineer who is not threatened by LANDR at all (remember, LANDR doesn't do surgical mastering or restoration, only processing), I would have LOVED it if people could have had a free preview of what the dynamics processing they ask me to do would actually do to their music. For many clients I do separate masters with varying degrees of squashing, particularly if they ask me for maximum squashing and I'm trying to talk them out of it. It would be so easy if they compared what they wanted to one of the three options in LANDR. And as any pro mastering engineer knows, adding dynamics and EQ changes will change the mix. I've had to do many a back-and-forth with a client because doing what they wanted altered the mix, so I suggested how to tweak their mix to preserve it in the light of what they wanted, and did another round. It would have saved me a lot of time if they could have had a rough idea - for free - before sending me their mix to master.
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