AdamGrossmanLG
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The LANDR Thread
So i gave it a try on a finished mix of a song I have.. which had a Dynamic Range scoring of 13. I mastered it on my own first and it still had a Dynamic Range scoring of 13.
LANDR made my mix ultra loud (increasing it by 4.5 db RMS) and squashed the dynamics to a scoring 8.
No thanks. I will master on my own.
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ampfixer
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Re: The LANDR Thread
2016/02/23 12:36:12
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There are a few YouTube video's that run that comparison with similar results. It's a subscription service but Cakewalk seems to have a deal with them for this new feature.
I have no interest in this update at all.
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John T
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Re: The LANDR Thread
2016/02/23 12:37:32
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I expect there's going to be a lot of LANDR nay-saying.
Myself, I've tried it out from curiosity a few times, and hopefully without sounding to arrogant, it doesn't do anything I can't do better myself. So not a fan as such.
However, if it helps some people get their stuff where they need it to be, then I'm all for it. It's not nearly as good as good mastering, nowhere close. But it's better than a lot of bad mastering I've heard.
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AdamGrossmanLG
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Re: The LANDR Thread
2016/02/23 12:40:36
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John T
I expect there's going to be a lot of LANDR nay-saying.
Myself, I've tried it out from curiosity a few times, and hopefully without sounding to arrogant, it doesn't do anything I can't do better myself. So not a fan as such.
However, if it helps some people get their stuff where they need it to be, then I'm all for it. It's not nearly as good as good mastering, nowhere close. But it's better than a lot of bad mastering I've heard.
Absolutely. If someone doesn't know the first thing and they screw up their recording.. sure use LANDR. Just don't expect great results. A good master shouldn't decrease dynamic range by 5db. Even though LANDR says on their site they are kinda against the loudness war... they just squashed my track lol.
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anxiousmofo
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Re: The LANDR Thread
2016/02/23 12:49:02
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☄ Helpfulby annifarkle 2016/02/29 22:22:37
It's hard to see the incorporation of what is ultimately a paid service as a real value-add for SONAR users. The free options are relatively useless.
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Andrew Rossa
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Re: The LANDR Thread
2016/02/23 12:53:42
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anxiousmofo
It's hard to see the incorporation of what is ultimately a paid service as a real value-add for SONAR users. The free options are relatively useless.
Well you get free previews so you can always check it out and tweak the mix if you think something is off. It could be a useful tool if you want to get an idea on what your track will sound like mastered. That being said, we understand it won't be for everyone and that some people prefer to send it to a mastering engineer.
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AdamGrossmanLG
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Re: The LANDR Thread
2016/02/23 12:53:45
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anxiousmofo
It's hard to see the incorporation of what is ultimately a paid service as a real value-add for SONAR users. The free options are relatively useless.
yea it comes off bad. It left a sour taste in my mouth. "Our next update is to make more money through partnerships!"
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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Re: The LANDR Thread
2016/02/23 12:57:11
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SilverBlueMedallion
So i gave it a try on a finished mix of a song I have.. which had a Dynamic Range scoring of 13. I mastered it on my own first and it still had a Dynamic Range scoring of 13.
LANDR made my mix ultra loud (increasing it by 4.5 db RMS) and squashed the dynamics to a scoring 8.
No thanks. I will master on my own.
Did you use the default which is the medium setting or Low? The low setting does only minimal dynamics processing and I've never seen it squash dynamics noticeably. I have to say that I've had really good results with Landr feeding it the same input that was used for my professionally mastered tunes. The algorithms are genre dependent so results could vary but in my case it did not squash dynamics.
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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Re: The LANDR Thread
2016/02/23 13:01:26
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SilverBlueMedallion
yea it comes off bad. It left a sour taste in my mouth. "Our next update is to make more money through partnerships!"
That wasn't the intent at all. We partner with companies that make serious contributions to the music production process with their tech. Celemony is another good example and I believe Landr is doing some pretty groundbreaking work in this area. The e-zine which covers many workflows enabled by this technology.
post edited by Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk] - 2016/02/23 13:54:01
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AdamGrossmanLG
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Re: The LANDR Thread
2016/02/23 13:01:46
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
SilverBlueMedallion
So i gave it a try on a finished mix of a song I have.. which had a Dynamic Range scoring of 13. I mastered it on my own first and it still had a Dynamic Range scoring of 13.
LANDR made my mix ultra loud (increasing it by 4.5 db RMS) and squashed the dynamics to a scoring 8.
No thanks. I will master on my own.
Did you use the default which is the medium setting or Low? The low setting does only minimal dynamics processing and I've never seen it squash dynamics noticeably. I have to say that I've had really good results with Landr feeding it the same input that was used for my professionally mastered tunes. The algorithms are genre dependent so results could vary but in my case it did not squash dynamics.
Hmmm I didn't even see that setting. I will re-try again when I get back to my DAW. thanks for the response!
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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Re: The LANDR Thread
2016/02/23 13:10:57
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☄ Helpfulby chilldanny 2016/02/23 14:00:11
Look at page 8 in the e-zine. There are 3 options Low, Medium and High. For music where you want to preserve dynamics such as acoustic music or solo instrumentals, I'ts recommended to start out with the Low setting. Here is the text from their FAQ: Want to know about our intensity settings?We currently offer three intensity options: low, medium and high. If maximum loudness is what you're after, opt for the high intensity; if you want to remain as true to your dynamics as possible, stick with the low intensity; and if you want to strike a nice balance between the two, try medium.You can always preview all of your intensity options by clicking on the "Change Intensity" button during the preview stage.Keep in mind that LANDR will analyze your track and set whichever default intensity it deems most appropriate. It changes depending on what you're uploading.
post edited by Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk] - 2016/02/23 13:29:34
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chilldanny
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Re: The LANDR Thread
2016/02/23 13:44:31
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I'm happy with most of the results I've had using LANDR. In fact, I was pleasantly surprised as I wasn't expecting it to be any good!  In my experience the best results, as with any mastering, come from using balanced mixes that aren't too hot. As for it's integration into Sonar, I'm happy it's there as an option for me to use.
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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Re: The LANDR Thread
2016/02/23 14:01:43
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☄ Helpfulby kennywtelejazz 2016/02/25 11:43:49
chilldanny
I'm happy with most of the results I've had using LANDR. In fact, I was pleasantly surprised as I wasn't expecting it to be any good! In my experience the best results, as with any mastering, come from using balanced mixes that aren't too hot.
As for it's integration into Sonar, I'm happy it's there as an option for me to use.
Indeed a good mix that is not excessively hot is a prerequisite. There is a note here on pre-mastering requirements. The requirements are the same as what you would give a normal mastering engineer. Don't excessively process the master bus or make the mix too loud since you want to leave headroom for mastering. The really big advantage with Landr is that you can iteratively refine your mix as you go since you can almost instantaneously hear how a section of audio will sound mastered. Even if you have the free version of Landr you can keep using the preview on sections of your song by exporting just that region. Its really a new tool that can change how you mix when used this way. I wish I had this when I was mixing my stuff some years ago. Its "agile mixing" rather than waiting until the end to master and then find out your mix has problems :-) Its often too late to do anything at that stage.
post edited by Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk] - 2016/02/23 14:16:04
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Anderton
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Re: The LANDR Thread
2016/02/23 14:03:10
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☄ Helpfulby thirst4music 2016/02/27 22:16:47
SilverBlueMedallion
So i gave it a try on a finished mix of a song I have.. which had a Dynamic Range scoring of 13. I mastered it on my own first and it still had a Dynamic Range scoring of 13.
LANDR made my mix ultra loud (increasing it by 4.5 db RMS) and squashed the dynamics to a scoring 8.
No thanks. I will master on my own.
There is often essential documentation included in the eZine. People should read the eZine to find out about an update's features. (I can't help but think of all the people who didn't read the eZine, didn't realize the Sizzle Bus was a bus effect, so they inserted it into a track and wondered why it "didn't work"...) LANDR makes it clear they do not intend to replace mastering engineers, but supplement what can be done. There are plenty of examples given in the eZine of ways to use LANDR that don't impinge in any way on traditional mastering and in fact, make life easier for mastering engineers. As a professional mastering engineer who is not threatened by LANDR at all (remember, LANDR doesn't do surgical mastering or restoration, only processing), I would have LOVED it if people could have had a free preview of what the dynamics processing they ask me to do would actually do to their music. For many clients I do separate masters with varying degrees of squashing, particularly if they ask me for maximum squashing and I'm trying to talk them out of it. It would be so easy if they compared what they wanted to one of the three options in LANDR. And as any pro mastering engineer knows, adding dynamics and EQ changes will change the mix. I've had to do many a back-and-forth with a client because doing what they wanted altered the mix, so I suggested how to tweak their mix to preserve it in the light of what they wanted, and did another round. It would have saved me a lot of time if they could have had a rough idea - for free - before sending me their mix to master.
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joden
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Re: The LANDR Thread
2016/02/24 11:41:19
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☄ Helpfulby Zargg71 2016/02/25 16:12:16
Seems like a good idea to me. I would place it in the same category as the "Monitorizer" tool. Another value add-on by CW to help make our work just that little bit easier 
post edited by joden - 2016/02/24 11:55:36
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bluzdog
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Re: The LANDR Thread
2016/02/24 13:31:48
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I understand the both the pros and cons of Landr. I don't care for it myself and wish the CCC would facilitate Landr as an option much like the Vsti's, Melodyne, Boz Digital, Addictive Drums, etc. Maybe that should be a feature request.
Rocky
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scook
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Re: The LANDR Thread
2016/02/24 13:37:55
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☄ Helpfulby bluzdog 2016/02/24 14:13:06
Pretty sure if the "Verbose Install" option is enabled in the Command Center, it is possible to skip installing the LANDR client software. I would recommend enabling the Verbose Install option to anyone who wants more control over installation. It usually just results in a few more mouse clicks during install.
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joeb1cannoli
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Re: The LANDR Thread
2016/02/24 13:54:01
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My studio budget for the year went to upgrading my monitors and upgrading Ozone 7 from standard to advanced along with Insight in hope that I could become acceptable at mastering on my own. I'm gonna be really pissed if LANDR does a better job than me It will be good test of my skills, although my opinion may be biased.
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NeoSoul
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Re: The LANDR Thread
2016/02/24 13:54:13
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
SilverBlueMedallion
yea it comes off bad. It left a sour taste in my mouth. "Our next update is to make more money through partnerships!"
That wasn't the intent at all. We partner with companies that make serious contributions to the music production process with their tech. Celemony is another good example and I believe Landr is doing some pretty groundbreaking work in this area. The e-zine which covers many workflows enabled by this technology.
This comes across as different though. The Melodyne inclusion is something Cake should be paying Celemony to use...this is the other way around where LANDR should be paying Cake. Agree LANDR would ideally be an optional part of the program install.
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bluzdog
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Re: The LANDR Thread
2016/02/24 13:59:04
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scook
Pretty sure if the "Verbose Install" option is enabled in the Command Center, it is possible to skip installing the LANDR client software. I would recommend enabling the Verbose Install option to anyone who wants more control over installation. It usually just results in a few more mouse clicks during install.
Thanks Scook. Rocky
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jpetersen
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Re: The LANDR Thread
2016/02/24 15:26:43
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On the LANDR wikipedia page they link to a Forbes article "Making Money On The Music Mix: Meet MixGenius I have a fantastic money making idea. I go to http://juke-bot.com/, enter the parameters for a song I want, pipe the result off to LANDR, and - done! I'm gonna write a bot that keeps up this cycle perpetually and plays me back the results. Based on the principle of having enough monkeys on typewriters at some point producing the complete works of Shakespeare, I figure I should have a string of hits by year end. Do I need SONR?
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jpetersen
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Re: The LANDR Thread
2016/02/24 15:28:02
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...that was supposed to be a joke.
But - I wonder.
H'mmm....
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Paul P
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Re: The LANDR Thread
2016/02/24 15:35:39
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jpetersen
...that was supposed to be a joke.
Connection to Juke-Bot will be available in the next update.
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bitflipper
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Re: The LANDR Thread
2016/02/24 15:38:29
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I'm curious...has LANDR really become "the leading online mastering service"? And in such a short time?
"Leading" suggests there are competitors, but I don't know of any. At least, not any with that business model.
 All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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Anderton
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Re: The LANDR Thread
2016/02/24 15:51:56
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bitflipper
I'm curious...has LANDR really become "the leading online mastering service"? And in such a short time?
"Leading" suggests there are competitors, but I don't know of any. At least, not any with that business model.
There are a ton of online mastering services. I've often gotten clients from people who've tried them . But no, not with the same business model. The main distinction to me isn't the AI stuff, but the free preview so you know what to expect.
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stxx
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Re: The LANDR Thread
2016/02/24 16:30:55
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I hate to get into this again as I've written MANY comment regarding LANDR and I am a huge fan and proponent of the service as I think there are MANY uses for it that can help us as well as bery very good budget mastering.. I am an early adopter with LANDR meaning I joined up when it first came out, [provided comments and feedback to help them improve and now pay a very small subscription price for as long as they continue to deduct from my account lol. LANDR has 3 mastering intensities: LOW, Med and Hi. Personally I think LANDR is GREAT for the average home studio who has not goten a budget for mastering. Also, I can do it myslef but it whole other level of anxiety and second guessing. Landr LOW and Medium provide PLENTY of dynamic range. Only the HI crushes your MOIX. YOU MUST NOT PEAK HIGHER THAN -5! LANDR says this for a reason! Yu WILL get very good results if you start with a great mix and send in with the specified headroom. Now I just learned about SONARs arrangement but don't yet know if you get your choice of intensities. If you do, I suggest trying them all.
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jpetersen
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Re: The LANDR Thread
2016/02/24 16:47:58
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bitflipper
"Leading" suggests there are competitors, but I don't know of any. At least, not any with that business model.
I figure other mastering tool providers must be aware the casual user just flips through their presets. So if this cloud-only solution gains in popularity, iZotope, IK Multimedia et al are going to have to review their product line and tack on some sort of AI software analysis. TC-Helicon have for the longest time had their "Personal Sound Engineer" concept which supposedly analyzes your singing and optimizes your mic signal automatically.
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Blackiejames7
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Re: The LANDR Thread
2016/02/24 17:04:24
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☄ Helpfulby Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk] 2016/02/24 18:25:49
LANDR is a computer intelligence robot mastering program and does a decent job of getting songs in the ballpark of the mastering realm but it is not designed to replace a mastering engineer. I master my own projects as I have thirty years of studio experience and I know exactly what I want my projects to sound like however if I had little to no experience then LANDR would be a great help in getting a decent end result. If you know how to master then don't be concerned but if you are new to the recording game or lack the confidence then LANDR is a good service to get your projects sounding decent. Remember many factors have to be in place such as good input levels and a nice balanced mix before you can master so don't expect LANDR to make a track sound professional if you don't have your production in order.
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stxx
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Re: The LANDR Thread
2016/02/24 17:30:28
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☄ Helpfulby Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk] 2016/02/24 18:25:53
I'm glad there are REASONABLE people here because there some VERY ignorant LANDR haters out in the ether! Blackiejames has it exactly right! Its anoither tool and has many potential uses depending on your skills and budget but it definitely should NOT be immediately written off!
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Anderton
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Re: The LANDR Thread
2016/02/24 17:38:17
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stxx
I'm glad there are REASONABLE people here because there some VERY ignorant LANDR haters out in the ether!
But to be fair, a lot of them haven't tried it and/or don't seem to have read the eZine, or know that there are different options available for the masters, so their opinions may change when they actually find out what it can and cannot do. LANDR says upfront it's not intended to replace a good, traditional mastering engineer. But that leaves a lot of room for a variety of applications, some of which as I said before, will make my life as a mastering engineer much easier when dealing with clients who don't get what mastering is about.
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