Jose7822
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Re:***The Sonar 8.5.1 Master Bug Thread***
2009/10/05 12:19:34
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brundlefly
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Re:***The Sonar 8.5.1 Master Bug Thread***
2009/10/05 12:23:35
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A saved Instrument Track Template will sound dimmer than inserting the same synth directly from either the Synth rack, or Insert Menu. Any particular synth or procedure for reproducing? I'll check it out. Also, dragging the mouse pointer (as if you were to lasso a bunch of MIDI notes) all the way to the sides (left or right, doesn't matter) causes drawing issues in the Piano Roll View. I've noticed this, but didn't know in which version it was introduced. I take it you're talking about the selection box outline being duplicated with a dozen or more nested boxes like mouse trails?
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Jose7822
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Re:***The Sonar 8.5.1 Master Bug Thread***
2009/10/05 12:29:50
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Brundlefly,
I've tested the first one with Beatscape and EWQLSO with the same results. I don't think this bug is picky about which instrument is used. The second one is exactly as you've described and does not happen in Sonar 8.3.1. Let me know when you have confirmed the first bug to write a bug report.
Thanks for taking the time! :-)
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brundlefly
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Re:***The Sonar 8.5.1 Master Bug Thread***
2009/10/05 13:18:03
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I've tested the first one with Beatscape and EWQLSO with the same results. I don't think this bug is picky about which instrument is used. I could not reproduce this with either Dim Pro or Cakewalk's "Twonar" test VSTi. My procedure was basically to insert the VSTi, and let it create the audio track for the output. I changed the output of the track from Master Bus to the digital loopback path I have set up in my Patchmix session. I saved that as a template, and inserted a new track from the template, which created another instance of the synth in the synth rack to go with the new audio track. I created a MIDI track, and drew a single extended MIDI note at C5, vel=100. Then I used the digital loop to re-record the output of each audio track hosting one of the soft synths in real time in two passes (changing the output of the MIDI track from one synth to the other in between). I inverted the phase of the template track recording, and played the two recordings back together. They nulled perfectly in both cases. The one issue I noticed was that the output setting of the original synth host track was not saved with the template. After inserting the track from the template, I had to change its output from Master to the digital loop out. I don't normally use track templates, so I don't know if this is working as designed.
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dzilizi
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Re:***The Sonar 8.5.1 Master Bug Thread***
2009/10/05 13:50:31
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I don't know if this is a bug or an issue with my computer, but the sound is just not working right. I'm on a laptop with a so so audio card. Outside options are my MBox mini and a Sonar SPS-25. The MBox works for the audio but the midi doesn't play through it. Just testing with a standard drum kit.
Updated to ASIO for All drivers and the midi works on the computer but Audio won't play. The problem is I thought I had 8 working, but I only remember trying audio on it. I am pretty new to Sonar. I was hoping to switch so I wouldn't have to carry the MBox just to be able to use the mic for quick song ideas when I'm on the road.
The other thing is I keep getting an error message saying my sound card is disconnected from the system. Yet at the same time the sound will be working. (this was with MME) I guess I should say, with MME it was working. Then I got the error message and I have been trying to get it to just go away. Nothing is working.
Don't make me want to go back to ProTools.....
Any help is always happily accepted.
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Jose7822
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Re:***The Sonar 8.5.1 Master Bug Thread***
2009/10/05 14:26:45
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Brundlefly, You didn't have to do a loopback test cause the difference should be obvious (at least it is here). Try this: - Insert Dim Pro with only the "Simple Instrument Track" and Synth Property Page" options ticked.
- Load any sound. I loaded "Comping Rhodes" inside the "10 - Electric Pianos" folder in Dimension Pro.
- Save this as a Track Template. Don't remove it.
- Now insert the saved Dim Pro Track Template into the project.
- With your MIDI keyboard/controller, play the two Dim Pro tracks and compare their sound level.
In my case, I see about a 10dB difference between the two. Let me know if you do too. Thanks!
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Jose7822
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Re:***The Sonar 8.5.1 Master Bug Thread***
2009/10/05 14:30:36
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Dzilizi,
I believe what you're experiencing is a configuration issue rather than a bug.
I suggest opening a thread and copy/pasting what you have described here so you don't have to write it again.
However, give as much info about your setup and how you're going about this as possible. This will make it easier to find the culprit.
Thanks and good luck!
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brundlefly
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Re:***The Sonar 8.5.1 Master Bug Thread***
2009/10/05 15:06:33
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Insert Dim Pro with only the "Simple Instrument Track" Loss of output level with Instrument Track templates confirmed. Reason number 267 not to use Instrument Tracks.  I suspected that might be the difference. Also, I noticed that inserting the new instrument track from the template, adds a second instance of the synth to the rack, and associates the new track with it, but the track name is still 'Dimension Pro 1", which is very misleading. The track name should take on the synth instance name. I personally won't use Instrument Tracks until every parameter contained in a MIDI-Audio track pair is made available in the Instrument Track.
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panup
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Re:***The Sonar 8.5.1 Master Bug Thread***
2009/10/05 16:12:08
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CWBRN-1812 Problem Description: Sometimes input gain values of all buses are ignored Workaround: set bus output to some else output, then back to original and input gain gets active again Status: SUBMITTED TO DEVELOPMENT
post edited by panup - 2009/10/05 16:13:49
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Freddie H
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Re:***The Sonar 8.5.1 Master Bug Thread***
2009/10/05 16:28:11
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Jose7822
Hey guys,
I think I found two bugs:
- A saved Instrument Track Template will sound dimmer than inserting the same synth directly from either the Synth rack, or Insert Menu.
- Also, dragging the mouse pointer (as if you were to lasso a bunch of MIDI notes) all the way to the sides (left or right, doesn't matter) causes drawing issues in the Piano Roll View.
Can anyone confirm these?
Thanks!
I will try it, Jose! 
-Highly developed spirits often encounter resistance from mediocre minds. -It really matters!
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Jose7822
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Re:***The Sonar 8.5.1 Master Bug Thread***
2009/10/05 16:40:30
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Thanks a lot Brundlefly.
I'll be summiting a report right now.
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Jose7822
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Re:***The Sonar 8.5.1 Master Bug Thread***
2009/10/05 17:01:25
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brundlefly
Also, I noticed that inserting the new instrument track from the template, adds a second instance of the synth to the rack, and associates the new track with it, but the track name is still 'Dimension Pro 1", which is very misleading. The track name should take on the synth instance name. This is actually the way it's supposed to work, since you also save the track's name with the template. It works as expected if you're not using track templates, but that's because you're inserting the instrument as a new instance. By the way, I've reported the issue to Cakewalk and added it to the OP. I'm also gonna report the ghost-drawing-mouse-dragging issue. Thanks for your time Brundlefly!
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brundlefly
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Re:***The Sonar 8.5.1 Master Bug Thread***
2009/10/05 17:10:44
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This is actually the way it's supposed to work, since you also save the track's name with the template. It works as expected if you're not using track templates, but that's because you're inserting the instrument as a new instance. Yes, I suppose it makes sense that the track name is saved and restored with the template as-is since it's just a label; the real problem is that without the Input field, there is no way to see where an Instrument Track is getting its audio input from. I guess that would have to be a feature request.
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Jose7822
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Re:***The Sonar 8.5.1 Master Bug Thread***
2009/10/05 17:18:46
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brundlefly
This is actually the way it's supposed to work, since you also save the track's name with the template. It works as expected if you're not using track templates, but that's because you're inserting the instrument as a new instance.
Yes, I suppose it makes sense that the track name is saved and restored with the template as-is since it's just a label; the real problem is that without the Input field, there is no way to see where an Instrument Track is getting its audio input from. I guess that would have to be a feature request.
That's why I always re-name my instruments in both the Synth Rack and the actual Track. However, that would be a nice feature to add.
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Oddmeister
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Re:***The Sonar 8.5.1 Master Bug Thread***
2009/10/05 17:44:54
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Hi,
Can anyone confirm this:
1: Open piano roll view.
2: Paint some midi data in (using pattern brush tool) for 16 bars.
3: Zoom in on midi data so that bars 1 to 8 only, are visible.
4: Select "PRV select tool".
5: Using PRV select tool, click at bar 4 and drag to bar 15 (or another bar that is out of zoomed view).
6: The selection lassoo goes a little crazy.
7: Any data that is touched by the lassoo while it goes crazy is also selected, the selected data is normally outside of the desired selection range.
It has been reported (CWBRN-1885) but the response I got was that it could not be repeated and that it may be mouse speed settings.
I have adjusted mouse speed settings to various speeds and the issue still persists.
Can anyone else reproduce this or is it only happening to me?
Regards
Oddmeister
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Jose7822
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Re:***The Sonar 8.5.1 Master Bug Thread***
2009/10/05 17:59:13
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Oddmeister
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Re:***The Sonar 8.5.1 Master Bug Thread***
2009/10/05 18:17:18
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Hi Jose, Thanks for the confirmation, I have also emailed jpeg screen shots of this to cakewalk support. It even selects undesired data (Above and / or below a particular series of notes that is intended to be selected) when chords have been programmed. On the plus side though, I now have my mouse pointer working at a more desireable speed. 
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Jose7822
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Re:***The Sonar 8.5.1 Master Bug Thread***
2009/10/05 18:22:14
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I thought about sending a jpeg, but didn't :-S
That would've proven your point to them once they saw someone else showing the same exact problem.
Guess it's too late. :-(
Take care!
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bitflipper
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Re:***The Sonar 8.5.1 Master Bug Thread***
2009/10/05 21:30:55
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This may be the same bug reported earlier regarding bus automation. If so, perhaps this will provide a way to duplicate the problem.
I had mixed a song, exported it and encoded it as an MP3 and downloaded it to my MP3 player. When I listened to it, I said "WTF! How did I mix the vocals so low and not notice???". The vocals were drastically low in the mix.
Further investigation showed that the instrument bus had been raised by 17db! Ozone, to its credit, had managed to absorb that without making the final output sound like total mush. But the instrument-to-vocal mix was totally hosed.
Further investigation showed that this phenomenon only occurred after freezing the drum tracks (Superior Drummer 2.0).
I then created a minimal test project consisting only of the TTS-1 playing the same MIDI drum tracks. The TTS-1's audio tracks were routed to a bus called "Drums", which in turn was routed to another bus called "Instruments", which was finally routed to the master bus. This routing was to simulate the earlier project in which I'd first noticed the problem.
What happens is that the volume envelope on the intermediate bus ("Instruments") is ignored. Since it had been lowering the audio by 17db, the effect was equivalent to turning everything up by 17db.
Now, the curious part is that the project does not behave this way initially - it is only after freezing the TTS-1 that the wackiness ensues.
 All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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Jose7822
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Re:***The Sonar 8.5.1 Master Bug Thread***
2009/10/05 22:25:10
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Wow, that is a wicket one. Im gonna try to repro it, brb. EDIT: Hmm, I'm not able to replicate this one. I inserted the TTS-1 into an empty project and grabbed a drum loop from the Media Browser. Set up the Busses the way you described and added a volume envelope to the "Instruments" Bus with 17dB of attenuation. Froze the TTS-1 and exported the project. Unfroze the TTS-1 and exported again. Brought the two exported files back into the project (on separate audio tracks) and they both play at the correct volume. Am I missing something?
post edited by Jose7822 - 2009/10/05 22:51:20
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bitflipper
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Re:***The Sonar 8.5.1 Master Bug Thread***
2009/10/05 23:21:34
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Am I missing something?
Maybe not. Such is the challenge of these types of issues that reliably reproducing them can be difficult. I have tried to reduce the project down to its barest essentials, removing all plugins and all automation save the volume envelope on the bus. The only thing I haven't done yet is start a brand-new project and set it up the same way. Mmm - I just realized that I may have mis-spoken. It's not that the bus envelope was reducing the level 17db, but rather the TRIM that was turned down 17db. It would appear to be the trim control that was being ignored. EDIT: Yes, I have confirmed that it is the trim that's being ignored. I can duplicate it with no envelopes at all.
post edited by bitflipper - 2009/10/05 23:25:56
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bitflipper
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Re:***The Sonar 8.5.1 Master Bug Thread***
2009/10/05 23:37:26
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I have reproduced the problem with the simplest possible project: 1 MIDI track 1 Audio track 1 Instance of TTS-1 TTS Audio -> "Drums" bus -> Master -> Main Outs Trim on "Drums" bus set to -10db Initially, when I play the project, the output of the audio track is -13.4db and the output of the "Drums" bus is -23.4db. Exactly as expected. Next, I freeze the TTS-1. On playback, the output of the drum audio track is still -13.4db, but now the output of the "Drums" bus is also -13.4db, because there is no attenuation. The trim control still says -10db. EDIT: And adjusting the trim during playback has no effect, even when moved all the way to -INF.
post edited by bitflipper - 2009/10/05 23:39:05
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bitflipper
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Re:***The Sonar 8.5.1 Master Bug Thread***
2009/10/05 23:41:52
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 Reported to CW: CWBRN-1896
post edited by bitflipper - 2009/10/05 23:51:24
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gtgarner
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Re:***The Sonar 8.5.1 Master Bug Thread***
2009/10/06 00:47:13
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I found an issue. Has anyone experienced this?
I assigned a pad on my axiom keyboard to bring up the "BIG Time" view.
I also assigned a pad on my axiom keyboard to bring up the "Track" view.
In 8.3.1 I could press each button to bring up the appropriate view.
In 8.5.1 - If I open up Big Time, then Big Time is ALWAYS in front. I can't get "Track view to display unless I close Big Time using my mouse.
I use Sonar Live - and switching views using buttons is a must for me. Switching views no longer works in 8.5.1
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Jose7822
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Re:***The Sonar 8.5.1 Master Bug Thread***
2009/10/06 01:37:13
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@ Bitflipper,
Yeah, this one is a known bug - CWBRN-1812.
I was about to ask you if prehaps you weren't experiencing the Bus Input Trim bug, but I didn't :-P. Either way, it doesn't hurt to report it again since this bug is a must fix. Thanks for taking the time to reproduce it reliably Bit. That's always key in killing these annoying bugs.
@ Gtgarner,
Could you please explain how to call up views like that so I can give it a try?
Thanks!
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Freddie H
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Re:***The Sonar 8.5.1 Master Bug Thread***
2009/10/06 02:38:52
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A saved Instrument Track Template will sound dimmer than inserting the same synth directly from either the Synth rack, or Insert Menu.
Yes, confirm here too! Happen only with Track Template's "Instrument"-track not normal open, "Midi+Synth Output"- track. Volume is always lower! I have also checked so it's not any synth values that just has changed after you open it again. As far as I can see, all vaules are exactly the same, still lower volume?. I have also checked with different patches, same bug... = Its a BUG! Also, dragging the mouse pointer (as if you were to lasso a bunch of MIDI notes) all the way to the sides (left or right, doesn't matter) causes drawing issues in the Piano Roll View. No its works for me... I have tried on different ZOOM-levels. Working just fine. I use ASUS NVIDIA 9600 GT Silent-Heatsink and the latest drivers from NVIDIA. I can really recommend that card, if anyone is on move buying new one... Also the new NVIDIA-series are great too... but I haven't found them in any heatsink version yet? http://www.silentpcreview.com/article821-page1.html
post edited by Freddie H - 2009/10/06 03:08:30
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Freddie H
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Re:***The Sonar 8.5.1 Master Bug Thread***
2009/10/06 02:47:37
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Insert Meter Bug (Sonar Crash) - CWBRN-1878
Icky, we can see this as well. It has been passed on to our development team.
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Freddie H
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Re:***The Sonar 8.5.1 Master Bug Thread***
2009/10/06 02:48:46
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Alias Bit-Factor - CWBRN-1826
we are aware of this issue and hope to address this in the future.
post edited by Freddie H - 2009/10/06 02:51:59
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Freddie H
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Re:***The Sonar 8.5.1 Master Bug Thread***
2009/10/06 02:51:45
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Reverse Audio Not Working With 64bit Files - CWBRN-1821 , CWBRN-1845
We are aware of this issue and hope to address it in a future release.
-Highly developed spirits often encounter resistance from mediocre minds. -It really matters!
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Freddie H
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Re:***The Sonar 8.5.1 Master Bug Thread***
2009/10/06 02:58:54
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New BUG: COLOR BUG! (blurriness) ! CWBRN-1822
Report: Some settings doesn't get change or remembered? Exampel: COLOR-BUG! inserted Plugin in "COLOR" ---> Console View ----> "Console FX bin Text"
1. I have it set to green.. works fine...but blurry...?
2. Change the color in Console-view: "Console FX bin Text" to example: RED-color
3. Restart SONAR to effect the color.
4. Open project... the Plugin name "Console FX bin Text" = Red... in project
5. Double click on the inserted plugin... it turns Green again and stay green... as was my deafult color too in 8.3.1? Please FIX this!
Answer:
Thank-you for the report. We have been able reproduce this and hope to address it in a future release. It is not x64 specific and occurs in all versions of SONAR 8.5.1
post edited by Freddie H - 2009/10/06 03:00:50
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