John T

What's the goal here? Are you expecting to bring about a change in that policy? I'm asking entirely seriously.

Just one update to the legacy version would be a start and I see no reason why it shouldn't be done.
 
I guess the goal is to change CW policy of abandoning their legacy versions.  If everyone shuts up and tows the party line then nothing will happen.  If banging on about it 2 or 3 times a year upsets enough people then maybe something will change.
 
All I've ever asked for is that the software I've paid money for works as advertised.
If it were 5 year old software that nobody uses any more, then fair enough. Drop it.  But that's not what is happening.
(From memory) there was at least six months between the final 8.5.3 update and the release of X1.  That's six months of 8.5.3 as the current version with loads of known bugs and come Dec 2010 they say "That's it, here's X1. No more updates to 8.5.3"

So X1 comes along, people hate it (and still complain about it now) and the party line is "You can always stay with 8.5.3"  NO, IT'S FULL OF BUGS THAT YOU ARE NOT GOING TO FIX
 
 
What's the goal?

Cheeseman?  Gareth?

.

Any word about V-Vocal? I'm looking at doing animation voice tracks. Anyway does anyone know why they could not get it working in Sonar 8.5.3?

sgotr


Any word about V-Vocal? I'm looking at doing animation voice tracks. Anyway does anyone know why they could not get it working in Sonar 8.5.3?

I never had a problem with it in 8.5.3 that I can recall. What problem were you having? I ask because there are some tricks to make it work better, sometimes it can give you a little trouble.

Regrading further updates to pre-X1 SONAR:

SONAR X1 has probably been supported with more updates and reaching further out from initial launch than any previous incarnation. This is something we feel good about and an endeavor in which we are are continually striving to do better. It's desirable to Cakewalk and I'm sure it's desirable to users/customers (you folks!).

Having said that, it is simply not feasible for us to go back to pre-X1 codebase and start implementing and testing features and/or fixes. We are committed to moving SONAR forward in terms of functionality and stability and that is where our resources are dedicated.

sgotr


Any word about V-Vocal? I'm looking at doing animation voice tracks. Anyway does anyone know why they could not get it working in Sonar 8.5.3?

VV Works fine for me in 8.5.3 (most of the time)... and the same in X1. I just want it better! ...and up the ante to polyphonic correction as the latest Melodyne...

Keni

John


Name a version ever that when a new version has come out CW still is busy updating the last version? It never happened.

What makes anyone now think they are being cheated out of their wanted update?

CW is putting its resources where its needed most on the current product.

All software companies (that are still in business) do this.

Brandon Ryan [Cakewalk
]

Regrading further updates to pre-X1 SONAR:

SONAR X1 has probably been supported with more updates and reaching further out from initial launch than any previous incarnation. This is something we feel good about and an endeavor in which we are are continually striving to do better. It's desirable to Cakewalk and I'm sure it's desirable to users/customers (you folks!).

Having said that, it is simply not feasible for us to go back to pre-X1 codebase and start implementing and testing features and/or fixes. We are committed to moving SONAR forward in terms of functionality and stability and that is where our resources are dedicated.

Hi Brandon...

I understand (and have all along), but when you think about it this can be very frustrating to many... Buying a car that claims to make left/right turns yet only can turn right sometimes... You would expect it to be fixed...

I know that's not the way of things in the software world (at the moment) but it will be someday...  People will not continue to buy products that don't meet the claims...

Simple solution? Don't drop a product... You want to completely revise something instead of fixing it? Make the new version a new product.... Yes it means requiring more staff to now work on two products... so product prices must go up... sounds good for the company and good for the users to me...

That said, I am more than happy to continue with things the way they are as I somewhat understand the myriad of complications... I know the team is doing the best they can and currently the best in the world (my opinion), but that doesn't mean there's no room for improvement.

I'll bet if all the 8.5.3 bugs get fixed before X2 (or even close), most people would be thrilled!

Thanks for joining in...

Keni

John T


Aside from the general bad manners of it, if I was trying to get complaints about a lack of updates taken at all seriously, I wouldn't put them on a thread about a pending update.

ROTFLMHO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No software that is at all complex is ever totally bug free no matter how long its worked on.

One has to ask when is the developer free to move on?

Then I wonder how I was able to use Sonar 8.5.3 for so long without any problems.

X1 has not been totally free of prominent bugs. Yet even it was at first use not so buggy that it couldn't be used. Plus bugs were expected with any new version CW brings out. X1 was more likely to have bugs considering the total overhaul it went through. I am pleased with the response of CW in the tracking down and elimination of known bugs in X1.  So far so good.

To me that is the void I see between many of us and some others.

I try to cheer them on not find fault with every post they make. CW has been very good to me and I will not forget that. Nor do I feel put upon for upgrading each year. It is my choice to do so no one else's.

The only reason I asked about V-Vocal is that doing animation voice tracks equals many small voice tracks and if they could not get it to work in Sonar 8.5.3 I sure would want to know if it's working in X1 for what I want to use it for. I didn't ask for a fix for Sonar 8.5.3 in this post I asked if it was working in X1.

"Anyway does anyone know why they could not get it working in Sonar 8.5.3?" is what I said.

These kinds of threads always provide not only much comic relief but, usually, much food for thought.  And both Mike and John's posts and, to some extent, other's musings have got me to thinking about this core question that seems to be at the heart of many of the arguments here;  can a complex software product which must take into account a wide range of functions and a user base which uses myriad platforms and has many different "niche" needs ever be released as a truly "bug free" package??  And the answer, I think, is, remarkably...yes.  I use for my example, Quickbooks Pro.  We have used this software for many years at my business and although we chafe at the way Intuit quite literally "makes" us update every single year (we have to get the current tax tables, ergo we must pay for a new update) we have NEVER had a version that did not work completely as advertised and HAS NEVER...EVER...crashed.  On ANY system we have happened to be using at that particular time.  Now, one could say that Sonar is a "much more complex" beast than a small business accounting package and it very well may be; I do not know.  But I sincerely doubt it.  What I think is more likely to have happened to all of us is that we have grown accustomed to the notion that our DAW software "will NEVER work 100% as advertised" upon release.  Or even 90%.  Or even 80%.  We've just grown used to things having bugs and crashing our systems and just plain "weirding out" on us.  We just accept it.  I know I have.  But why?? 

Think about it.  No, I mean really think about it.  Think about all (and I mean all) the other software you use in your daily life (yes, I'm even talking about your ATM and your cell phone, etc....)

Doesn't it...well...work??  Mine does. 

So why SHOULDN"T we expect the same from our DAWs?  Especially since we pay (and continue to pay) so much and so regularly for them?  What's wrong with expecting more?  What's wrong with expecting them to....well...actually work?  With any system.  And any (OK, most) plugs, etc...???

And why on earth should anyone be castigated for complaining that it doesn't?

Don't get me wrong...I'm not for childishness or incessant whinning (to me, the continued chorus insisting on retroactive fixes to 8.5 is particularly pointless has Cake has NO INTENTION WHATSOEVER to comply)...and we have far too much of that here 24/7.  But, there is nothing wrong with bringing up issues in a civil manner until they are either addressed, dismissed or self-evidently ignored by Cake and the rest of the forum. 

I use, love and even defend Sonar every day in my business and hope to continue to for years to come.  But I think it's about time that Roland/Cakewalk (and all the other DAW makers for that matter) start turning out products that work as advertised.  And if they cannot stand the heat...then get the hell out of the kitchen.

And now, back to your regularly scheduled programming:-)

yorolpal


These kinds of threads always provide not only much comic relief but, usually, much food for thought.  And both Mike and John's posts and, to some extent, other's musings have got me to thinking about this core question that seems to be at the heart of many of the arguments here;  can a complex software product which must take into account a wide range of functions and a user base which uses myriad platforms and has many different "niche" needs ever be released as a truly "bug free" package??  And the answer, I think, is, remarkably...yes.  I use for my example, Quickbooks Pro.  We have used this software for many years at my business and although we chafe at the way Intuit quite literally "makes" us update every single year (we have to get the current tax tables, ergo we must pay for a new update) we have NEVER had a version that did not work completely as advertised and HAS NEVER...EVER...crashed.  On ANY system we have happened to be using at that particular time.  Now, one could say that Sonar is a "much more complex" beast than a small business accounting package and it very well may be; I do not know.  But I sincerely doubt it.  What I think is more likely to have happened to all of us is that we have grown accustomed to the notion that our DAW software "will NEVER work 100% as advertised" upon release.  Or even 90%.  Or even 80%.  We've just grown used to things having bugs and crashing our systems and just plain "weirding out" on us.  We just accept it.  I know I have.  But why?? 

Think about it.  No, I mean really think about it.  Think about all (and I mean all) the other software you use in your daily life (yes, I'm even talking about your ATM and your cell phone, etc....)

Doesn't it...well...work??  Mine does. 

So why SHOULDN"T we expect the same from our DAWs?  Especially since we pay (and continue to pay) so much and so regularly for them?  What's wrong with expecting more?  What's wrong with expecting them to....well...actually work?  With any system.  And any (OK, most) plugs, etc...???

And why on earth should anyone be castigated for complaining that it doesn't?

Don't get me wrong...I'm not for childishness or incessant whinning (to me, the continued chorus insisting on retroactive fixes to 8.5 is particularly pointless has Cake has NO INTENTION WHATSOEVER to comply)...and we have far too much of that here 24/7.  But, there is nothing wrong with bringing up issues in a civil manner until they are either addressed, dismissed or self-evidently ignored by Cake and the rest of the forum. 

I use, love and even defend Sonar every day in my business and hope to continue to for years to come.  But I think it's about time that Roland/Cakewalk (and all the other DAW makers for that matter) start turning out products that work as advertised.  And if they cannot stand the heat...then get the hell out of the kitchen.

And now, back to your regularly scheduled programming:-)

Ya, what he said. Can't we all just......... Oh, never mind.

The only problem I have with that Ol Pal is I don't see how an accounting program is in any way as complex as a DAW program.

Lets take a look at some differences.
Sonar supports tons of file formats both in loading them and on writing them. File formats they have little or not control over.  Also it supports video playback as well as a multi track audio and MIDI project. At the same time it supports third party add-ons in the form of plugins. Not only plugins but two different types DX and VST.  Not to mention it support 64 bits and 32 bits.

It has to interface not with just a computer keyboard but all sorts of hardware that my use various protocols.  Sync it all together and act as if it is seamless. All this and full backward compatibility to older projects.

I will grant that its vital that an accounting program be reliable but I will not grant that what X1 is expected to do and does is in any way equivalent to what is expected from an accounting program.  

As to cells phones working without errors and crashes, mine is not that reliable and its a good one. It will do some odd things from time to time. Mostly when I need it most.

We can ask for perfection. We can even demand it. But it will never come. All we really can do is continue to strive for it as elusive as it is. I think CW holds to the same values.

I believe that CW wants its products to be as good and reliable as they are able to make them. There is no up side in producing poor or inadequate products for them or us.

We also need to remember that in order to stay competitive CW has as a small concern tried to push the DAW envelope as far as they can with the limited resources they have.  With that in mind X1 may not be the right fit for everyone. But it is for many.