cparmerlee
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Re: When is Sonar X4 coming out
2014/10/28 08:44:13
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John
I recommend Paint Shop Pro X7. It can do 99.9 % of what Photoshop can do plus uses PS's plugins yet its a heck of a lot cheaper. Its also 64 bits.
Also PhotoPlus from Serif.
DAW: SONAR Platinum Audio I/F: Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 gen2
OS: Windows 10 64-bit CPU: Haswell 4790 4.0 GHz, 4 core, 8 thread Memory: 16 GB Video: GTX-760Ti
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lawp
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Re: When is Sonar X4 coming out
2014/10/28 09:16:03
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and GIMP and Paint.NET are both free
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FCCfirstclass
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Re: When is Sonar X4 coming out
2014/10/28 09:24:39
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John
I recommend Paint Shop Pro X7. It can do 99.9 % of what Photoshop can do plus uses PS's plugins yet its a heck of a lot cheaper. Its also 64 bits.
On the mark John. I have used Paint Shop Pro for many years and it works for me.
Win 10 Pro x64, 32Gb DDR3 ram, Sonar Platinum, Cubase 9.5, Mackie MCU Pro, Cakewalk VS 100, Roland Octa-Capture, A 800 Pro, Carver M-1.5t amp & C4000 pre amp, various mics, drums and brass instruments. And away we go!
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Anderton
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Re: When is Sonar X4 coming out
2014/10/28 09:30:25
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John
I recommend Paint Shop Pro X7. It can do 99.9 % of what Photoshop can do plus uses PS's plugins yet its a heck of a lot cheaper. Its also 64 bits.
I use Paint Shop Pro, but it's a really ancient version - pre-Corel IIRC. If GIMP doesn't do what I need, I'll look into the latest version for sure.
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Sanderxpander
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Re: When is Sonar X4 coming out
2014/10/28 09:33:25
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I'm not a fan of the subscription model but the photography deal Adobe offers currently isn't that bad. It includes, Lightroom, Lightroom Mobile, PhotoShop and a basic 2GB creative cloud storage dealie. I believe I paid 99e for a year's worth with some deal. Considering the price point of both products, I don't think that's unfair. I've bought software for more that I stopped using or had to upgrade within a year. Philosophically I agree with Craig on the rental vs subscription idea, however practically speaking for me the digital world changes so quickly that I'm just not going to use three or four year old versions of my main programs. Perhaps some odd utility but not my main DAW. I think it's more the idea of paying per month and not having an independent copy of the software than any practical differences or drawbacks, for most people.
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brconflict
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Re: When is Sonar X4 coming out
2014/10/28 10:02:51
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Anderton makes a good point. So, let's say, after you've subscribed to Sonar for 2 years, or that you've paid for the software by 120% using the subscription price, that version of Sonar is free to use after that, along with its updates. In other words, because you bought it using the subscription price, you pay a little extra (like Interest) until you've paid 100% for the license, and 20% for the Interest, then you own the license forever. However, to get the next version, you need to re-subscribe, or buy it outright.
Waves does this with their WUP. You can own the license of the Waves plug-ins, but if you want to get the latest versions (and in many cases, free plug-ins, if you own the larger Bundles) in the future, you need to buy WUP. Although WUP is an annual or bi-annual cost, you still get all the free updates or versions. Believe me, I used to despise WUP. But after Waves capped the price and put incentives out there for early renewal, not to mention hosting massive plug-in sales, I'm ok with it now. Their support is pretty great, too.
Brian Sonar Platinum, Steinberg Wavelab Pro 9, MOTU 24CoreIO w/ low-slew OP-AMP mods and BLA external clock, True P8, Audient ASP008, API 512c, Chandler Germ500, Summit 2ba-221, GAP Pre-73, Peluso 22251, Peluso 2247LE, Mackie HR824, Polk Audio SRS-SDA 2.3tl w/upgraded Soniccraft crossovers and Goertz cables, powered by Pass-X350. All wiring Star-Quad XLR or Monster Cable. Power by Monster Power Signature AVS2000 voltage stabilizer and Signature Pro Power 5100 PowerCenter on a 20A isolation shielded circuit.
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cparmerlee
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Re: When is Sonar X4 coming out
2014/10/28 10:17:05
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brconflict
So, let's say, after you've subscribed to Sonar for 2 years, or that you've paid for the software by 120% using the subscription price, that version of Sonar is free to use after that, along with its updates.
We may be having some confusion about terminology. In most cases, "subscription", particularly for cloud-based software/services, means you only use the function while your subscription is fully paid up. It is certainly possible to define a "maintenance plan" or "update plan" where you may a recurring fee and are in turn provided all the patches and version upgrades that are released while you have you plan in force. But that is not the common practice for what is called "subscription model". I certainly hope Cake does not adopt the subscription model where you can only use the software while your subscription is in force. And I really don't see a compelling reason to adopt a prepaid maintenance plan. We effectively have that if Cake does annual releases. I can see where the software vendor would like to see more of their user base move up to the most current version (both for revenue and a support cost reasons). But by the same token, that is asking users to buy a pig in a poke. Cakewalk has done an very good job improving product quality and they continue to be a leader in adding useful function to the product, so I would go along with a prepaid maintenance model if that was the only choice because I trust Cake more than other software suppliers. But I really don't see any big advantages for me over the current approach of more-or-less annual releases.
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Anderton
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Re: When is Sonar X4 coming out
2014/10/28 10:45:43
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cparmerlee
It is certainly possible to define a "maintenance plan" or "update plan" where you pay a recurring fee and are in turn provided all the patches and version upgrades that are released while you have you plan in force.
Actually, I think that's a pretty good model.
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Sanderxpander
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Re: When is Sonar X4 coming out
2014/10/28 10:57:11
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☄ Helpfulby Echojester 2014/10/28 11:57:42
I agree, which is why I don't object to WUP. Judging by most people's responses I don't think it would be well received but I don't think it's a bad idea.
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Truckermusic
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Re: When is Sonar X4 coming out
2014/10/28 11:20:58
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I use both Sonar X3 and Reaper.
If Sonar went subscription.....It would only be Reaper.
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Ibanezer
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Re: When is Sonar X4 coming out
2014/10/28 11:36:22
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I don't like being forced to be online to use my computer. my studio is remotely located and requires some hassle to authenticate licenses etc. and it's been getting worse lately. BTW Corel user professionally since version 3 Win 95 ( X6 currently) I have to deal with Adobe users daily
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lawp
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Re: When is Sonar X4 coming out
2014/10/28 11:38:04
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what if it was named something else? like "version [N.0] plus all [N.x] updates" - the only difference i'm seeing other than the name is the speculation that once the sub is cancelled nothing would work (if i wasn't still subscribed)
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lawp
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Re: When is Sonar X4 coming out
2014/10/28 11:54:46
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Ibanezer
I don't like being forced to be online to use my computer. my studio is remotely located and requires some hassle to authenticate licenses etc. and it's been getting worse lately. BTW Corel user professionally since version 3 Win 95 ( X6 currently) I have to deal with Adobe users daily
some kind of "offline mode" a la steam might work?
sstteerreeoo ffllllaanngge
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twoifbysea
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Re: When is Sonar X4 coming out
2014/10/28 12:01:28
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Anderton
cparmerlee
It is certainly possible to define a "maintenance plan" or "update plan" where you pay a recurring fee and are in turn provided all the patches and version upgrades that are released while you have you plan in force.
Actually, I think that's a pretty good model.
CUP: Cakewalk Update Plan? No thanks.
post edited by twoifbysea - 2014/10/28 12:17:40
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CJaysMusic
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Re: When is Sonar X4 coming out
2014/10/28 12:05:07
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SUBSCRIPTION = FAILED BUSINESS MODEL
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lawp
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Re: When is Sonar X4 coming out
2014/10/28 12:13:59
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CJaysMusic
SUBSCRIPTION = FAILED BUSINESS MODEL
it depends how you judge it - what criteria do you use? if you judge a fish by its ability to climb trees, etc
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Sanderxpander
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Re: When is Sonar X4 coming out
2014/10/28 13:01:33
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Haha, QED I guess.
EDIT: as for those who don't want to need internet access on their DAW, that has nothing to do with it. I have my Waves license on a USB stick, I could also have it on the HDD. You only need online access when updating or moving licenses.
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Ibanezer
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Re: When is Sonar X4 coming out
2014/10/28 13:13:33
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So how would subscription based software know when the time is up?
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dke
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Re: When is Sonar X4 coming out
2014/10/28 13:28:38
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If cakewalk goes to a subscription model X3 would be the last version for me. I quit updating Audition when Adobe went to subscription based and I'd do the same with Sonar.
Heck I didn't even finish the Survey because they didn't give an option on the pricing model of "Neither of the Above", I simply won't give a sub model any consideration at all.
Dan
Sonar Platinum ( x64), Windows 10 x64, HP Envy i5 2.9GHZ, 8GB, Tascam 4x4 USB, BX5a Monitors.
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Andrew Rossa
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Re: When is Sonar X4 coming out
2014/10/28 13:51:10
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Oh boy. There were like 35 other questions on the survey. Who wants to talk about rollbacks? :)
Seriously though, I don't think it's such a bad thing to try and understand how users purchase software these days. The more information we have, the better we can service our customers. So all these questions had a purpose...to try and understand our customers better. I've been at Cakewalk for 12+ years and one thing has always remained true... we are very customer focused. So please keep that in mind as you speculate on how SONAR will evolve.
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Anderton
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Re: When is Sonar X4 coming out
2014/10/28 14:02:02
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Sanderxpander
I agree, which is why I don't object to WUP. Judging by most people's responses I don't think it would be well received but I don't think it's a bad idea.
If there's one thing that's clear from the way this thread has gone, it's that Adobe has defined a "subscription" model that sends people running for cover. I still think it's a "rental" model. Maybe it's my print background, but I think of a "subscription" as something that sends you something new typically every month, you pay for it a month at a time at a newsstand or save some money by buying upfront for a year, and you keep your back issues. I just don't see the Adobe plan as that kind of a "subscription." But the HUGE aspect where magazine subscriptions differ from Adobe's rental concept is that magazines don't have a lock on their readers. So, they need to offer incentives to subscribe ("three free trial issues!") and because renewing a subscription is optional, they have to satisfy their readership to convince them to keep subscribing. With Adobe, you have to subscribe. I'm sure Keyboard, Sound on Sound, Guitar Player, etc. would love a way to do business where if someone started a subscription, they would have to keep subscribing forever 
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Anderton
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Re: When is Sonar X4 coming out
2014/10/28 14:06:01
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Andrew Rossa [Cakewalk]
I've been at Cakewalk for 12+ years and one thing has always remained true... we are very customer focused. So please keep that in mind as you speculate on how SONAR will evolve.
I hope I can take that to mean iLok is not being considered...
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ampfixer
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Re: When is Sonar X4 coming out
2014/10/28 14:12:02
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You said the i word. Bad bartender.
Regards, John I want to make it clear that I am an Eedjit. I have no direct, or indirect, knowledge of business, the music industry, forum threads or the meaning of life. I know about amps. WIN 10 Pro X64, I7-3770k 16 gigs, ASUS Z77 pro, AMD 7950 3 gig, Steinberg UR44, A-Pro 500, Sonar Platinum, KRK Rokit 6
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Anderton
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Re: When is Sonar X4 coming out
2014/10/28 14:15:44
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ampfixer
You said the i word. Bad bartender.
No, smart bartender! The "i word' drives people to drink. Would you like a lime in your gin and tonic?
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Musikus
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Re: When is Sonar X4 coming out
2014/10/28 14:30:47
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On the avid pro tools forum we have the same discussion over the last weeks. Many users are not really amused! Avid's not really coming arround with the facts, what users might get for their money (199$/year for PT vanilla) and what happens when your subscription lapse. Rumours say that you than have to purchase a new license of PT vanilla for 899$. Not to mention costs for PT HD.
I thought that's another reason to use Sonar more than usual and now I read the same things here.
I have no problem to pay an annual fee, but who guarentees a decent value. Will I be able to decide, what I spend my money for? Or do I just have to take what cakewalk or avid give me?
I know that all these brands, if it's avid or gibson, try to get constant income to make their shareholders smile. I truely hope that they don't forget about their userbase and drive into a deadend street.
I think the number of DAWs will decrease in the next decade. Some will have to strike sail, I'm sure.
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Sanderxpander
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Re: When is Sonar X4 coming out
2014/10/28 14:51:35
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Anderton
Sanderxpander
I agree, which is why I don't object to WUP. Judging by most people's responses I don't think it would be well received but I don't think it's a bad idea.
If there's one thing that's clear from the way this thread has gone, it's that Adobe has defined a "subscription" model that sends people running for cover. I still think it's a "rental" model.
Maybe it's my print background, but I think of a "subscription" as something that sends you something new typically every month, you pay for it a month at a time at a newsstand or save some money by buying upfront for a year, and you keep your back issues. I just don't see the Adobe plan as that kind of a "subscription."
But the HUGE aspect where magazine subscriptions differ from Adobe's rental concept is that magazines don't have a lock on their readers. So, they need to offer incentives to subscribe ("three free trial issues!") and because renewing a subscription is optional, they have to satisfy their readership to convince them to keep subscribing. With Adobe, you have to subscribe.
I'm sure Keyboard, Sound on Sound, Guitar Player, etc. would love a way to do business where if someone started a subscription, they would have to keep subscribing forever
Again, I philosophically agree on the rental vs subscription and in a way I prefer WUP to Adobe's deal. BUT in my view people are forgetting the cost of the initial purchase. Sure, if you already have the pro package and you can choose whether or not to upgrade every year/iteration, the balance is rather in favor of the regular purchase. But if hadn't already spent 600 bucks you can get a lot of subscription for that kind of money. I wouldn't personally have bought PhotoShop for full price for instance, but since I did want Lightroom and the Photography subscription included both, I'm quite happy with it. I totally understand the mistrust for subscription deals. But if I add up everything it may actually be cheaper for me. EDIT: also, with WUP I actually still have a large initial purchase.
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dke
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Re: When is Sonar X4 coming out
2014/10/28 14:59:35
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☄ Helpfulby mike_mccue 2014/10/28 15:32:33
Andrew Rossa [Cakewalk]
Oh boy. There were like 35 other questions on the survey. Who wants to talk about rollbacks? :)
Seriously though, I don't think it's such a bad thing to try and understand how users purchase software these days. The more information we have, the better we can service our customers. So all these questions had a purpose...to try and understand our customers better. I've been at Cakewalk for 12+ years and one thing has always remained true... we are very customer focused. So please keep that in mind as you speculate on how SONAR will evolve.
My position is even though I answered the previous questions with no uncertainty that I would not support a subscription model, to answer $9.99/mo or 99.99/yr would imply, push comes to shove I would accept a subscription model. An answer of "None of the Above" or skip, would have been a valid answer in keeping with my feelings on the matter and to me should have been an obvious choice. There is nothing wrong with trying to understand how users purchase software these days, and I had no problem with the questions other than when a question omits an important choice in the context of the questions, to me it is leading the user to answer in a desired way rather than actual feelings on the matter. I'm not speculating on how Sonar evolves, I'm just stating my feelings on the matter. Dan
Sonar Platinum ( x64), Windows 10 x64, HP Envy i5 2.9GHZ, 8GB, Tascam 4x4 USB, BX5a Monitors.
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P-Theory
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Please don't move to a subscription model
2014/10/28 15:20:29
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I just did the survey thing and they were pushing for a subscription model. Pretty polly please don't as that would end my relationship with Cakewalk
A subscription model would mean my main machine would have to be connected to the internet which it ever is very deliberately. It would mean I would have to subscribe for the shortest period of time so that I could migrate all of my projects to a new DAW. It is very intrusive and offers me no benefit whatsoever as a user.
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Anderton
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Re: When is Sonar X4 coming out
2014/10/28 15:24:52
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Musikus
I know that all these brands, if it's avid or gibson, try to get constant income to make their shareholders smile.
FYI, Gibson is privately held.
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scook
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Re: When is Sonar X4 coming out
2014/10/28 15:29:02
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☄ Helpfulby mike_mccue 2014/10/28 15:32:09
This would mean the shares are not publicly traded. The company still has shareholders.
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