Anderton
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Re: There is no subscription!!!!!
2015/01/16 12:35:15
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Paul P
[we're getting pretty close to double-posting here...]
So tell me how the program is different from renting for the first 11 months ? Because "the program" isn't just about the first 11 months. It's also about buying upfront if you prefer that. If you want to look at only a selected part of one aspect of the program and not consider that it's DESIGNED to last more than 11 months, then it has the appearance of a rental program. But then the 12th month hits, and its true nature of not being a rental program (as the world defines it) becomes obvious. If it was a rental program, then you'd rent for the 12th month, 13th month, etc. That would be like saying SONAR's model is giving away software for free because if you download the demo, it sure looks like that's the case for month 1. But at month 2, you discover it is not a model that gives away software for free. Similarly, at month 12, it's obvious the "rental program" is not a rental program. And I think it's great that you can now rent Sonar for a few months. You should be crying this from the tree tops.
Why aren't you ? 
Because the overwhelming sentiment in the forums is that people want to own what they buy. This is not a rental program and promoting it as such would be inaccurate.
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rontarrant
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Re: There is no subscription!!!!!
2015/01/16 12:37:32
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Perhaps it's the word 'membership' that's tripping them up. Whenever you read 'membership' think 'rent-to-own.' 
-Ron T. ---------------------------------------------------------- MSI GE72 2QF-247US, 12 gb, Focusrite 6i6, AT-2020 ---------------------------------------------------------- Windows 10 x64, Sonar Platinum
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John
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Re: There is no subscription!!!!!
2015/01/16 12:42:23
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A renter will never own what they pay rent for. That is in complete opposition to what CW is offering. They are giving you 12 months to pay for the product. After that you own it.
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John
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Re: There is no subscription!!!!!
2015/01/16 12:46:41
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For some this new model will be a true godsend. Believe it or not many would love to have a full professional DAW but can't come up with money. Now they are included too. I for one am very pleased with what CW is doing.
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vintagevibe
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Re: There is no subscription!!!!!
2015/01/16 12:50:09
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Anderton
Paul P
John
CW is not using a rental model either. That needs to be clear.
The first 11 months look a lot like a rental to me, John.
Maybe we should call it an eleven month lease, with option to buy (for one payment) at the twelfth month.
A program is the entirety of the model. In a rental program, you rent. Obviously this is not a rental program because at its conclusion, you stop "renting" and own the software. The closest you can come to a rental program is to call the monthly payment variation a "rent-to-own" program.
But, you also don't have to choose that option. You can buy it outright and have a permanent license from Day 1. So the "program" really comprises choices, it is not just one model.
You save money with quantity pricing. You can either make accounting deal with your account every month, or you can buy all 12 months at once and save money. It's like any store where you pay less if you buy things in bulk instead of singly.
Isn't the main difference here that you only get tech support for that one year or am I missing something?
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John
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Re: There is no subscription!!!!!
2015/01/16 12:53:22
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vintagevibe
Anderton
Paul P
John
CW is not using a rental model either. That needs to be clear.
The first 11 months look a lot like a rental to me, John.
Maybe we should call it an eleven month lease, with option to buy (for one payment) at the twelfth month.
A program is the entirety of the model. In a rental program, you rent. Obviously this is not a rental program because at its conclusion, you stop "renting" and own the software. The closest you can come to a rental program is to call the monthly payment variation a "rent-to-own" program.
But, you also don't have to choose that option. You can buy it outright and have a permanent license from Day 1. So the "program" really comprises choices, it is not just one model.
You save money with quantity pricing. You can either make accounting deal with your account every month, or you can buy all 12 months at once and save money. It's like any store where you pay less if you buy things in bulk instead of singly.
Isn't the main difference here that you only get tech support for that one year or am I missing something?
Actually I'm not sure about that. I think support will be there in the same way it has been in the past. It would help if CW would be more clear about this.
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bluzdog
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Re: There is no subscription!!!!!
2015/01/16 12:55:15
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I agree that the plan works well for most and I'm just playing devil's advocate here: Let's say Joe starving musician wants to start recording his band. He is pretty broke but his day job provides enough income for the monthly plan at $50/m. Joe gets through the first 11 months of membership but is then layed off from his day job and can't pony up the last $50 for ownership. He has 11 months of projects in the works and has spent $550 but is completely hosed under this system. Just a little food for thought.
Rocky
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Anderton
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Re: There is no subscription!!!!!
2015/01/16 12:56:05
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vintagevibe
Isn't the main difference here that you only get tech support for that one year or am I missing something?
I think this needs to be clarified. I don't know if Premium Tech Support entails only phone, but email support is still available. In any event I would think most people would have their issues sorted out after a year, and of course, the forums offer significant support if people have questions after that. I assume Cakewalk considered the kind of $99 per incident support that companies like Apple offer for Logic, but that wouldn't make much sense when for $50 more you get support and all the updates.
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Anderton
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Re: There is no subscription!!!!!
2015/01/16 12:59:01
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bluzdog
I agree that the plan works well for most and I'm just playing devil's advocate here: Let's say Joe starving musician wants to start recording his band. He is pretty broke but his day job provides enough income for the monthly plan at $50/m. Joe gets through the first 11 months of membership but is then layed off from his day job and can't pony up the last $50 for ownership. He has 11 months of projects in the works and has spent $550 but is completely hosed under this system. Just a little food for thought.
Rocky
Under the old system, he would not have been able to use the software at all because he would have had to pay the full amount upfront. At least this way he got to use the full version for almost a year. Hopefully he would have been able to complete his projects by then. If not, he could renew when he has money again. The fact is software has a price. If you pay the price, you own the software. If you don't pay the price, you don't own the software. It's no different from buying anything.
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bluzdog
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Re: There is no subscription!!!!!
2015/01/16 13:54:28
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Anderton
bluzdog
I agree that the plan works well for most and I'm just playing devil's advocate here: Let's say Joe starving musician wants to start recording his band. He is pretty broke but his day job provides enough income for the monthly plan at $50/m. Joe gets through the first 11 months of membership but is then layed off from his day job and can't pony up the last $50 for ownership. He has 11 months of projects in the works and has spent $550 but is completely hosed under this system. Just a little food for thought.
Rocky
Under the old system, he would not have been able to use the software at all because he would have had to pay the full amount upfront. At least this way he got to use the full version for almost a year. Hopefully he would have been able to complete his projects by then.
If not, he could renew when he has money again. The fact is software has a price. If you pay the price, you own the software. If you don't pay the price, you don't own the software. It's no different from buying anything.
Fair enough but I was under the impression that the 12 months have to be consecutive. Will he be on the hook for another 12 months or still nothing? Does he start from scratch at $50 a month? Rocky
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SteveStrummerUK
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Re: There is no subscription!!!!!
2015/01/16 15:06:55
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Two quick questions regarding the new subscription membership plan: - Do we now get free phone support from here in the UK?
- Can I still use email support if my Guitar Tracks 2 gives me any problems?
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musicroom
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Re: There is no subscription!!!!!
2015/01/16 15:31:29
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I look at this new program like this.
- Cakewalk is offering payment plan of 12 monthly payments or we can pay up front and save ~20% for this upgrade.
Why they are doing this IMO is... Cake has determined that releasing the software in stages is better suited for a variety of reasons including stability and user adaptation to new features. Also, this method allows people to pay for their software in stages as well versus having to dig a little deeper on the front end. And with any dedicated software user group - there will ALWAYS be some folks who resist ANY change to the program. So, this approach minimizes that unrest from the software level with the upgrades being incrementally released and also allows Cakewalk programmers to quickly address any issues.
This is all simple and common for a number of products and services we as consumers can purchase. I'm okay with it. Let's roll it out and get started.
Dave Songs___________________________________ Desktop: Platinum / RME Multiface II / Purrfect Audio DAW I7-3770 / 16 GB RAM / Win 10 Pro / Remote Laptop i7 6500U / 12GB RAM / RME Babyface
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Seth Kellogg [Cakewalk]
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Re: There is no subscription!!!!!
2015/01/16 15:49:55
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☄ Helpfulby bluzdog 2015/01/16 16:06:19
bluzdog
I agree that the plan works well for most and I'm just playing devil's advocate here: Let's say Joe starving musician wants to start recording his band. He is pretty broke but his day job provides enough income for the monthly plan at $50/m. Joe gets through the first 11 months of membership but is then layed off from his day job and can't pony up the last $50 for ownership. He has 11 months of projects in the works and has spent $550 but is completely hosed under this system. Just a little food for thought.
Rocky
I think if Joe Sixpack here reached out to us in a polite manner and described the reality of his current situation, there could be some sort of accommodation or adjustment of his terms. We're not here to kick people when they are down.
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bapu
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Re: There is no subscription!!!!!
2015/01/16 15:57:27
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Seth Kellogg [Cakewalk]
bluzdog
I agree that the plan works well for most and I'm just playing devil's advocate here: Let's say Joe starving musician wants to start recording his band. He is pretty broke but his day job provides enough income for the monthly plan at $50/m. Joe gets through the first 11 months of membership but is then layed off from his day job and can't pony up the last $50 for ownership. He has 11 months of projects in the works and has spent $550 but is completely hosed under this system. Just a little food for thought.
Rocky
I think if Joe Sixpack here reached out to us in a polite manner and described the reality of his current situation, there could be some sort of accommodation or adjustment of his terms. We're not here to kick people when they are down.
And in this case the world has ONLY become slightly unraveled for Joe, not the entire user base. These Bakers do seem more and more like real people. Whoodathunk?
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bapu
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Re: There is no subscription!!!!!
2015/01/16 15:58:29
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SteveStrummerUK
- Can I still use email support if my Guitar Tracks 2 gives me any problems?
Why? I thought it was packed away in the attic. 
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Seth Kellogg [Cakewalk]
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Re: There is no subscription!!!!!
2015/01/16 16:01:20
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SteveStrummerUK
Two quick questions regarding the new subscription membership plan:
- Do we now get free phone support from here in the UK?
- Can I still use email support if my Guitar Tracks 2 gives me any problems?
1. We don't charge you for the call or on a per-case basis unlike some of our competitors. Yes, some long distance charges can apply. I'm not sure if we're looking at opening more access numbers yet. You could try giving your local distributor a call first, they are should be able to handle basic support cases. United KingdomFocusrite Audio Engineering Ltd. Windsor House Turnpike Road<br /> High Wycombe Bucks HP12 3FX Tel: +44 1494 462246 Fax: +44 1494 459920 Email: sales@focusrite.com Web: http://uk.focusrite.com 2. Guitar Tracks 2 has not been supported by e-mail for years.
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Splat 
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Re: There is no subscription!!!!!
2015/01/16 16:06:59
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Hang Seth Kellogg [Cakewalk]
You could try giving your local distributor a call first, they are should be able to handle basic support cases.
United Kingdom
Focusrite Audio Engineering Ltd.
Windsor House
Turnpike Road<br /> High Wycombe Bucks HP12 3FX
Tel: +44 1494 462246
Fax: +44 1494 459920
Email: sales@focusrite.com
Web: http://uk.focusrite.com
Are you sure that Focusrite distributes Sonar... ? If so I wouldn't need to ring them, I could drive round and see them ;). Just clarifying I think this is a typo or I have misunderstood!
Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed. @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38. Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.4,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),4 x Seagate ST31500341AS (mirrored),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5.Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1.Addictive Keys,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist.Acronis True Image 2014.
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Paul P
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Re: There is no subscription!!!!!
2015/01/16 16:09:29
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John
A renter will never own what they pay rent for. That is in complete opposition to what CW is offering. They are giving you 12 months to pay for the product. After that you own it.
Forget everything else for a moment. Do you agree or not that I will be able to rent and use full Sonar for five months by paying five monthly payments and at the end of this term I will own nothing, just like with any other rental. This option may be very attractive to somone, say in a studio, who doesn't have Sonar but needs it for a project. I didn't invent this idea, someone else here did but I'm sorry I don't remember who it was.
Sonar Platinum [2017.10], Win7U x64 sp1, Xeon E5-1620 3.6 GHz, Asus P9X79WS, 16 GB ECC, 128gb SSD, HD7950, Mackie Blackjack
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bluzdog
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Re: There is no subscription!!!!!
2015/01/16 16:09:44
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Seth Kellogg [Cakewalk]
bluzdog
I agree that the plan works well for most and I'm just playing devil's advocate here: Let's say Joe starving musician wants to start recording his band. He is pretty broke but his day job provides enough income for the monthly plan at $50/m. Joe gets through the first 11 months of membership but is then layed off from his day job and can't pony up the last $50 for ownership. He has 11 months of projects in the works and has spent $550 but is completely hosed under this system. Just a little food for thought.
Rocky
I think if Joe Sixpack here reached out to us in a polite manner and described the reality of his current situation, there could be some sort of accommodation or adjustment of his terms. We're not here to kick people when they are down.
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Seth Kellogg [Cakewalk]
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Re: There is no subscription!!!!!
2015/01/16 16:12:17
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CakeAlexS
Hang Seth Kellogg [Cakewalk]
You could try giving your local distributor a call first, they are should be able to handle basic support cases.
United Kingdom
Focusrite Audio Engineering Ltd.
Windsor House
Turnpike Road<br /> High Wycombe Bucks HP12 3FX
Tel: +44 1494 462246
Fax: +44 1494 459920
Email: sales@focusrite.com
Web: http://uk.focusrite.com
Are you sure that Focusrite distributes Sonar... ?
If so I wouldn't need to ring them, I could drive round and see them ;).
Just clarifying I think this is a typo or I have misunderstood!
I'm pretty sure: http://www.cakewalk.com/Dealers/Global AFAIK, that is current and accurate, but I'm not sure on all the details.
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bluzdog
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Re: There is no subscription!!!!!
2015/01/16 16:12:29
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My reply didn't post with the quote. Any who......Seth, that was the coolest answer you could have possible given to my scenario. Thanks and that is why I have been a loyal Cake customer since Sonar 1.x
Rocky
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John
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Re: There is no subscription!!!!!
2015/01/16 16:27:17
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Paul P
John
A renter will never own what they pay rent for. That is in complete opposition to what CW is offering. They are giving you 12 months to pay for the product. After that you own it.
Forget everything else for a moment. Do you agree or not that I will be able to rent and use full Sonar for five months by paying five monthly payments and at the end of this term I will own nothing, just like with any other rental.
This option may be very attractive to somone, say in a studio, who doesn't have Sonar but needs it for a project. I didn't invent this idea, someone else here did but I'm sorry I don't remember who it was.
I am at a loss to explain the difference. I have tried to do so and have not succeeded. I do agree with the fact that if you fail to pay the agreed amount you will end up owning nothing. That is true of all contracts even a quit claim deed. There if you fail to pay your monthly payment you will lose the property. Are you renting? No, you are buying. In the real world people buy things all the time on credit. As long as the seller has not received the full amount agreed to that seller will have a claim on what ever it is he sold. If he wants to reclaim his property because the buyer has not paid in full he has every right to do so. The buyer is still not renting. A renter has no prospect or expectation of ownership. A buyer does. Is that clear enough?
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vintagevibe
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Re: There is no subscription!!!!!
2015/01/16 18:06:12
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bluzdog
Fair enough but I was under the impression that the 12 months have to be consecutive. Will he be on the hook for another 12 months or still nothing? Does he start from scratch at $50 a month?
Rocky
If this is that case that you can pick up your rental later and finish out the 12 months instead starting over then Cakewalk has not clearly communicated this and caused a huge amount of misunderstanding on several forums.
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slartabartfast
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Re: There is no subscription!!!!!
2015/01/16 18:18:32
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The distinction between rent or buy may be neither as simple nor inconsequential as some people think. see this: http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/3148721 That post does not address the possibility of re-characterizing the difference between time payment plan costs minus lump sum payment as deductible loan interest. I have my doubts that would pass the laugh test at the IRS.
post edited by slartabartfast - 2015/01/16 18:25:00
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SteveStrummerUK
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Re: There is no subscription!!!!!
2015/01/16 18:31:48
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Seth Kellogg [Cakewalk]
2. Guitar Tracks 2 has not been supported by e-mail for years.
Sorry Seth, I was only ribbing you a bit with that one  Guitar Tracks 2 was my very first Cakewalk purchase, and my entry into the world of digital audio. As such, it holds a special place in my musical heart, as do the guys that used to hang out in the GT forum back in the day who virtually taught me how to use it from start to finish. I'll never forget the spirit of friendship and co-operation that overwhelmed me when I first dipped a tentative toe in there. I was pretty new to computers, and to the internet in general at the time, and those fine folk walked me through everything I needed to know about using these new tools to make music with. Although I got it a couple of years after it was released, my GT2 is now well over 10 years old and still runs absolutely perfectly on the Win7 64bit PC I'm typing this message on. Now that's value for money!
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SteveStrummerUK
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Re: There is no subscription!!!!!
2015/01/16 18:48:29
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In the olden days, we used to call it "buying in instalments", or "buying on the never never" - a colloquial term for a hire-purchase agreement.
Your payment plan would usually involve putting down a part payment, and then signing up to pay the balance off (plus interest) weekly or monthly over an agreed period of time. Once you'd made your last payment, the agreement was terminated and you owned the item outright.
However, part of the agreement would stipulate that if you missed a payment, the repo men would come knocking on your door a few days later to remove said item from your property. And you certainly weren't entitled to a refund of the part payments you'd already made.
Seems like a good analogy for the new Cakewalk option which allows one to spread the payment over a 12 month consecutive period to me.
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John
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Re: There is no subscription!!!!!
2015/01/16 18:56:09
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vintagevibe
bluzdog
Fair enough but I was under the impression that the 12 months have to be consecutive. Will he be on the hook for another 12 months or still nothing? Does he start from scratch at $50 a month?
Rocky
If this is that case that you can pick up your rental later and finish out the 12 months instead starting over then Cakewalk has not clearly communicated this and caused a huge amount of misunderstanding on several forums.
You make a good point Vintagevibe. I have heard that it will be possible to not pay for a month and then pick it up later. As you say this is still not all that clear though.
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vintagevibe
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Re: There is no subscription!!!!!
2015/01/16 19:50:31
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John
vintagevibe
bluzdog
Fair enough but I was under the impression that the 12 months have to be consecutive. Will he be on the hook for another 12 months or still nothing? Does he start from scratch at $50 a month?
Rocky
If this is that case that you can pick up your rental later and finish out the 12 months instead starting over then Cakewalk has not clearly communicated this and caused a huge amount of misunderstanding on several forums.
You make a good point Vintagevibe. I have heard that it will be possible to not pay for a month and then pick it up later. As you say this is still not all that clear though.
I suspect that knowledge would mute much of the nonsense going on over at Grearslutz.
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Dave1992
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Re: There is no subscription!!!!!
2015/01/16 21:07:18
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Not a subscription...COOL!
I am at Sweetwater right now and want to buy it! RIGHT NOW!
BUT I came here to verify for upgrade status, I cant access my store account...
so how do I prove I own X3 Pro?
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bapu
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Re: There is no subscription!!!!!
2015/01/16 21:13:10
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John
vintagevibe
bluzdog
Fair enough but I was under the impression that the 12 months have to be consecutive. Will he be on the hook for another 12 months or still nothing? Does he start from scratch at $50 a month?
Rocky
If this is that case that you can pick up your rental later and finish out the 12 months instead starting over then Cakewalk has not clearly communicated this and caused a huge amount of misunderstanding on several forums.
You make a good point Vintagevibe. I have heard that it will be possible to not pay for a month and then pick it up later. As you say this is still not all that clear though.
I believe that you can pay n-months, stop and pickup later. It would certainly benefit to make a call to CW and see if they deem you to keep the past payments as "consecutive". They have said (on this forum) that they will work with customers on a one-on-one basis and if the circumstances warrant it make accommodations.
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