Sycraft
 
"Rent to own" might be a more accurate description. You can straight out buy Sonar, or you can rent it monthly. If you rent it for 12 months, you bought it.

And yet there are many here who just can't get that simple concept.  Sheeesh!

Dave1992
Not a subscription...COOL!  
I am at Sweetwater right now and want to buy it! RIGHT NOW!
BUT I came here to verify for upgrade status, I cant access my store account...
so how do I prove  I own X3 Pro?

Just buy it from Sweetwater and when you redeem, you'll be asked to enter your X3 Producer number. And that's it. We do verification on our end.

Hey John, can you use my invite? I want to wait a few weeks until the dust settles before moving fwd.

John
You guys have made laugh too much on this thread.  That could have been said by the Doc on Start trek. 

I thought the same thing..
Im a DR john, not a subscription.

friggin' idiots...go away!

slartabartfast

Marcus Curtis
 It seems obvious to me that this is not a subscription. When I was looking at the pricing section I noticed that you get a licence. Subscriptions don't offer you a licence. This seems more like a payment plan and now when you buy Sonar you become a member of some sort of cakewalk support community. 

 
Actually, whatever you call it, rental, subscription, installment sale, you get a license. Software is primarily protected under copyright, and if someone gives you the permission to download a copy onto your computer, that is a license in itself. Most software never becomes property of the purchaser, the way a book would, because most vendor's EULA specifically says that all you are buying is a license to copy and use the software under the restrictions of the license. The difference is not in the nature of the license that you get when you pay for a month, but for the duration for which the license is valid. The monthly payment gets you a license for a month, after the full payment is received you get a perpetual license, which does not expire after any set time. The granting of a perpetual license is as close as you will probably get to ownership of software these days, at least in the US. But one of the usual characteristics of ownership is the ability to sell or give the property to someone else. I have not seen the license for the new Sonar, but I expect that, like the X3 and all prior licenses, it is not transferable. In that sense you will never fully own either the software or the license.
 

I never implied that I owned the software. I said you get a licence. I know all the legal terms associated with software and licences. perpetual licence is implied in my statement. I made a mistake and signed up for the adobe subscription. I canceled the subscription soon after that. I am well aware that a person never owns the software. And I know the legal terms involved with a licence. Even if some software is freeware vendors tend to retain ownership. There are restrictions with it. Let's be clear here. It was never my intent to say that people who don't purchase subscriptions own the software.
 
A software subscription is understood by most people to mean you make monthly payments for as long as you use the software. Once you stop paying your monthly fee you stop accessing the software. (Adobe's model for example)
 
So no don't call it a subscription. That is the point of this thread and that is why people are getting hung up. They immediately think of Adobe's licence and model or Microsoft's licence and model 
 
I think we are splitting hairs here and I have seen this same point argued on many other threads. In my opinion, I think that is one of the reasons why this even became an issue and it detracts from my main point which is this. According to the licence I receive when I make my lump payment my ability to use the software will not end after 12 months. This is were people are getting hung up. Arguing the merits of licences and copyright laws only serves to add to the confusion.
 
While I don't disagree with you your reply, you seemed to entirely miss the point I made. 

Hello,
I have just discovered why all the confusion is around this Membership issues...
Right now all roads here lead you to the BIG pitch ie. Sonar, Sonar Family and so one... 
I was looking for system requirements, and I know I saw them... Still cant find them but I did discover something else...
Depending on how you find yourself at the New Sonar ad... You don't get all the information about the membership...
 
Drop down menu to "Sonar Family" does NOT show Membership description... you have to click on a menu option at the top.
I for one never look up once I'm in a page.. I'm use to links being with in the document. Old Dog thing...
 
and yet you can see the info ON the other pages...

slartabartfast

Marcus Curtis
 It seems obvious to me that this is not a subscription. When I was looking at the pricing section I noticed that you get a licence. Subscriptions don't offer you a licence. This seems more like a payment plan and now when you buy Sonar you become a member of some sort of cakewalk support community. 

 
Actually, whatever you call it, rental, subscription, installment sale, you get a license. Software is primarily protected under copyright, and if someone gives you the permission to download a copy onto your computer, that is a license in itself. Most software never becomes property of the purchaser, the way a book would, because most vendor's EULA specifically says that all you are buying is a license to copy and use the software under the restrictions of the license. The difference is not in the nature of the license that you get when you pay for a month, but for the duration for which the license is valid. The monthly payment gets you a license for a month, after the full payment is received you get a perpetual license, which does not expire after any set time. The granting of a perpetual license is as close as you will probably get to ownership of software these days, at least in the US. But one of the usual characteristics of ownership is the ability to sell or give the property to someone else. I have not seen the license for the new Sonar, but I expect that, like the X3 and all prior licenses, it is not transferable. In that sense you will never fully own either the software or the license.
 

Normally what one calls something isn't important. Here it is very important. Cakewalk is not, I repeat, not offering a subscription. You do not subscribe to anything. You are made a member only and there are no dues to pay. You buy the program and its yours just like in all the previous versions. The differences from the past is being a member gives you access to all new updates for the coming year and addons CW comes up with.  
 
 
That is it in a nutshell!! 

Sweet Tooth
You guys can try to redefine all you want, in the meantime the current definition is as follows...
 
-merriam-webster.com

sub·scrip·tion

 noun \səb-ˈskrip-shən\
: an agreement that you make with a company to get a publication or service regularly and that you usually pay for in advance
: a fee that you pay regularly to belong to or support an organization


Full Definition of SUBSCRIPTION
 
1 a :  the act of signing one's name (as in attesting or witnessing a document)

b :  the acceptance (as of ecclesiastical articles of faith) attested by the signing of one's name


2:  something that is subscribed: as

a :  an autograph signature; also :  a paper to which a signature is attached 
b :  a sum subscribed or pledged


3 :  an arrangement for providing, receiving, or making use of something of a continuing or periodic nature on a prepayment plan: as

a :  a purchase by prepayment for a certain number of issues (as of a periodical) 
b :  application to purchase securities of a new issue 
c :  a method of offering or presenting a series of public performances 
d British :  membership dues

That is as I have said.  

Sweet Tooth
Yes, so when I stop payment on my fourth month my subscription (membership) ends.

No they reposes it until you pay the balance. Just like any other credit contract. If you pay the full amount its yours forever. A subscription never ends. You never own the product.  When you bought Sonar before you did the exact same thing. Now CW is simply allowing you to choose a monthly payment plan if you can't come up with the $149.
 
This is not hard to understand.  Unless you don't want to understand.     

Subscriptions do end when you stop paying.
 
What is appalling to me is a Company trying to pretend as if their business model is not subscription based and even more appalling to me are the forumites supporting that position by forcefully shoving their definition down everyone's throat. There is nothing wrong with the new subscription model, it is where the software industry is moving as a whole but please...Call it what it is.
 
Definition #3 states it very clearly and can be interpreted in a modern context very easily.
 
3 :  an arrangement for providing, receiving, or making use of something of a continuing or periodic nature on a prepayment plan: as

a :  a purchase by prepayment for a certain number of issues (as of a periodical) 
b :  application to purchase securities of a new issue 
c :  a method of offering or presenting a series of public performances 
d British :  membership dues
 
 
For all who want to know about subscription based licensing there is a whole wealth of info...
 
http://blogs.flexerasoftware.com/ecm/
 
Decent blog post...
 
http://blogs.flexerasoftware.com/ecm/2010/09/making-the-subscription-software-licensing-model-work-for-you.html
 
"The subscription license model typically involves providing the combination of a software license (or “right to use” the software) along and all software updates during a period of time, typically on an annual basis."
 
Different models exist, you may be able to keep Sonar after 12 months but you keep nothing if you pay to play for only 4 months. The right to keep your license after 12 months is an Incentive to subscribe annually.

Sweet Tooth
Subscriptions do end when you stop paying.
 
What is appalling to me is a Company trying to pretend as if their business model is not subscription based and even more appalling to me are the forumites supporting that position by forcefully shoving their definition down everyone's throat. There is nothing wrong with the new subscription model, it is where the software industry is moving as a whole but please...Call it what it is.
 
Definition #3 states it very clearly and can be interpreted in a modern context very easily.
 
3 :  an arrangement for providing, receiving, or making use of something of a continuing or periodic nature on a prepayment plan: as

a :  a purchase by prepayment for a certain number of issues (as of a periodical) 
b :  application to purchase securities of a new issue 
c :  a method of offering or presenting a series of public performances 
d British :  membership dues
 
 
For all who want to know about subscription based licensing there is a whole wealth of info...
 
http://blogs.flexerasoftware.com/ecm/
 
Decent blog post...
 
http://blogs.flexerasoftware.com/ecm/2010/09/making-the-subscription-software-licensing-model-work-for-you.html
 
"The subscription license model typically involves providing the combination of a software license (or “right to use” the software) along and all software updates during a period of time, typically on an annual basis."
 
Different models exist, you may be able to keep Sonar after 12 months but you keep nothing if you pay to play for only 4 months. The right to keep your license after 12 months is an Incentive to subscribe annually.

This is from the link you provided,
 
"Subscription license models still seem to cause a fair amount of anxiety among customers looking into the possibility of offering such a model for their traditional software. While there are some minor variances in the interpretation of a subscription license model, It is typically defined as an annual or multi-year software license that combines the right-to-use the software with the rights to obtain software updates and service. At the end of the term, all rights associated with the use of the software and the acquisition of updates ceases."
 
http://blogs.flexerasoftware.com/ecm/2010/03/dont-be-afraid-of-subscription-license-models.html
 
This is their definition. "Typically Defined" means, or the normal definition and I quote "At the end of the term, all rights associated with the use of the software and the acquisition of updates ceases."
 
This is what most people believe a software subscription to be. That is the general subscription license model. The difference here is that you don't ever lose the right to use the software. You eventually get a perpetual license. If Cakewalk did not offer you the payment option you would still need to make the very same lump sum payment to get the upgrade. This is the exact same payment I made to get X3 producer. If you only made 4 payments then you did not meet the cost for the upgrade and therefore you are cut off. This is a lot different then the standard subscription model.
 
You could argue that the membership is a subscription in and of itself and that may very well be the case, but the license is not based on a standard subscription model and that is where the confusion is coming from. People are arguing that it is a subscription.

Sweet Tooth
Ironic because I would say the same.

Of course you would! Why say things that make sense?
 
Fortunately, you have proven incontrovertibly and beyond a shadow of any possible doubt that you indeed choose not to see, because you obviously did not read the link YOU (yes, you) so generously provided that totally and completely undermines your faux argument. But thanks for that!
 
Read post #85 to fully comprehend the extent to which you've made a fool of yourself.
 
However, rest assured we all appreciate the convenience of having you come in here, making a ridiculous argument, and then demolishing it yourself so we don't have to. It saves us all some time.

Marcus Curtis
 
...
 
This is their definition. "Typically Defined" means, or the normal definition and I quote "At the end of the term, all rights associated with the use of the software and the acquisition of updates ceases."
 
This is what most people believe a software subscription to be. That is the general subscription license model. The difference here is that you don't ever lose the right to use the software. You eventually get a perpetual license. If Cakewalk did not offer you the payment option you would still need to make the very same lump sum payment to get the upgrade. This is the exact same payment I made to get X3 producer. If you only made 4 payments then you did not meet the cost for the upgrade and therefore you are cut off. This is a lot different then the standard subscription model.
 
You could argue that the membership is a subscription in and of itself and that may very well be the case, but the license is not based on a standard subscription model and that is where the confusion is coming from. People are arguing that it is a subscription.

Yes, Subscribers are often called members. There is no single form of the subscription model or SaaS (Software as a Service), Let us take a look at what Wiki has to say...
 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subscription_business_model
 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_as_a_service
 
Adobe is SaaS and is not cloud computed.
 
The purchase of razor cartridges can be considered a subscription model, heck Gillete even has a Subscription Shave plan now.
 
Razor and Blades business model
 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freebie_marketing
 
 
A new user who pays for 4 months and stops payment leaves with no perpetual license...This is by definition subscription software.