pbognar
Max Output Level: -76 dBFS
- Total Posts : 720
- Joined: 2005/10/03 16:22:03
- Status: offline
Re:They have to make an update to make SONAR stable ...like SOOOOOoo ASAP !
2013/02/11 16:12:41
(permalink)
munmun
I have heard that Midi implementation in Reaper isn't as good as Sonar. remains to be seen. Just hope it is intuitive with an easy learning curve. Just want to make music. Not have to contend with never ending crashes and computer maintenance issues.
Release 4.33 of Reaper is supposed to have a lot of MIDI improvements and some stretch audio stuff -HOWEVER- I wouldn't give up on Sonar just yet. Cakewalk are "investigating what is going on". Just speculation, but I expect something relatively soon. Also, there is a big conceptual difference between Reaper and Sonar. Pick your poison.
|
pbognar
Max Output Level: -76 dBFS
- Total Posts : 720
- Joined: 2005/10/03 16:22:03
- Status: offline
Re:They have to make an update to make SONAR stable ...like SOOOOOoo ASAP !
2013/02/11 16:17:28
(permalink)
Bub
sharke
It does sound like Reaper has a much better design philosophy when it comes to handling plugin crashes etc...from what I've heard a plugin crash or incompatibility will not cause Reaper to hang, instead Reaper identifies the problem and resets the plug while remaining stable itself. Not sure how accurate that is, just going by comments I've read from others.
The VST thing I can confirm. I forget which VST I was using, but it crashed, Reaper put a message on the track that said it was not responding (or something to that effect), it reset the VST, and kept working. I didn't even have to close Reaper, it just kept chugging along like nothing happened after about 15 seconds.
I know it was the VST that crashed for two reasons, 1: Reaper told me it was this particular VST by name, and 2: It crashes all the time in Sonar. I always freeze immediately when I use it. I don't know for sure if it responds this way to all VST's when there is a problem, but I can confirm it did in this case. Another thing you can do is, there is a setting you can check off in Reaper to help make unstable VST's work better. I haven't tried it because, well ... it's never crashed or given me any problems.
If that is the case then Cakewalk should definitely look toward following that path, because I'm sure a lot of these crashes are to do with instability in 3rd party plugs taking Sonar down with them.
The VST I was using was one that comes with Sonar ... but I can't remember if it was one they did themselves or if it was one of the 3rd party ones they use.
Reaper supports VST3 ... maybe that has something to do with the fact that it was able to reset it like that?
I may be mistaken, but I believe VST3 is still a feature request in Reaper.
|
Bub 
Max Output Level: -3.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 7196
- Joined: 2010/10/25 10:22:13
- Location: Sneaking up behind you!
- Status: offline
Re:They have to make an update to make SONAR stable ...like SOOOOOoo ASAP !
2013/02/11 16:45:10
(permalink)
John
Reaper crashes as much as any other DAW.
Personally speaking, I have to say it does not in my experience. I've never had a crash in Reaper, and I've got a good 80 hours working time in it. IOW, actually usage, I'm not counting the hours it sits there doing nothing while I go grab some coffee or use the bathroom. I had 4 WSOD crashes in Sonar on Saturday alone and had to reboot. I was using Auto-Save, so I didn't lose hardly any work, so it's not as big a deal as if I hadn't had Auto-Save on, but it did happen nonetheless. I can honestly tell you, I've never had a crash in Reaper. Reaper's MIDI is very good and is quite usable. Its not as mature as Sonar's but it can do much the same things except there is no Staff View, no Step Sequencer and the like.
Staff View, I can live without. If it was something I needed though, I'd go buy an actual program that does it right. But ... my beloved Step Sequencer 2.0, I cannot live without.  Midi seems to be pretty much the same in it as Sonar. Actually, I think Sonar is just now catching up to Reaper in that regard. You can get 3rd party Step Sequencers for it, some free ... but nothing works like Sonar's SS2 for me. I'm so used to it. Before the X versions of Sonar Reaper was a viable alternative to Sonar. With the Pro Channel and various other features there is no competition now.
That doesn't make any sense? 2 of the 3 offerings of Sonar that Cakewalk sells come without the Pro Channel. If the Pro Channel doesn't interest you, then Reaper is still a very viable contender. Especially with all the quality free VST's and synths out there now ... you could basically set yourself up with the equivalent of Sonar Studio for $60 bucks.
"I pulled the head off Elvis, filled Fred up to his pelvis, yaba daba do, the King is gone, and so are you."
|
Bub
Max Output Level: -3.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 7196
- Joined: 2010/10/25 10:22:13
- Location: Sneaking up behind you!
- Status: offline
Re:They have to make an update to make SONAR stable ...like SOOOOOoo ASAP !
2013/02/11 16:51:12
(permalink)
pbognar
Bub
sharke
It does sound like Reaper has a much better design philosophy when it comes to handling plugin crashes etc...from what I've heard a plugin crash or incompatibility will not cause Reaper to hang, instead Reaper identifies the problem and resets the plug while remaining stable itself. Not sure how accurate that is, just going by comments I've read from others.
The VST thing I can confirm. I forget which VST I was using, but it crashed, Reaper put a message on the track that said it was not responding (or something to that effect), it reset the VST, and kept working. I didn't even have to close Reaper, it just kept chugging along like nothing happened after about 15 seconds.
I know it was the VST that crashed for two reasons, 1: Reaper told me it was this particular VST by name, and 2: It crashes all the time in Sonar. I always freeze immediately when I use it. I don't know for sure if it responds this way to all VST's when there is a problem, but I can confirm it did in this case. Another thing you can do is, there is a setting you can check off in Reaper to help make unstable VST's work better. I haven't tried it because, well ... it's never crashed or given me any problems.
If that is the case then Cakewalk should definitely look toward following that path, because I'm sure a lot of these crashes are to do with instability in 3rd party plugs taking Sonar down with them.
The VST I was using was one that comes with Sonar ... but I can't remember if it was one they did themselves or if it was one of the 3rd party ones they use.
Reaper supports VST3 ... maybe that has something to do with the fact that it was able to reset it like that?
I may be mistaken, but I believe VST3 is still a feature request in Reaper.
Yeah, you are right. It does not support VST3.
"I pulled the head off Elvis, filled Fred up to his pelvis, yaba daba do, the King is gone, and so are you."
|
John
Forum Host
- Total Posts : 30467
- Joined: 2003/11/06 11:53:17
- Status: offline
Re:They have to make an update to make SONAR stable ...like SOOOOOoo ASAP !
2013/02/11 16:55:12
(permalink)
My post is my opinion based on experience with the DAWs mentioned. Take it or leave it. You can't dispute it because its my view. You can hold any opinion you wish.
|
Bub
Max Output Level: -3.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 7196
- Joined: 2010/10/25 10:22:13
- Location: Sneaking up behind you!
- Status: offline
Re:They have to make an update to make SONAR stable ...like SOOOOOoo ASAP !
2013/02/11 16:59:32
(permalink)
John
My post is my opinion based on experience with the DAWs mentioned. Take it or leave it. You can't dispute it because its my view. You can hold any opinion you wish.
No dispute ... just stating my own opinion with some facts thrown in.
"I pulled the head off Elvis, filled Fred up to his pelvis, yaba daba do, the King is gone, and so are you."
|
frankandfree
Max Output Level: -82 dBFS
- Total Posts : 447
- Joined: 2008/04/26 11:56:32
- Location: Norddeutschland
- Status: offline
Re:They have to make an update to make SONAR stable ...like SOOOOOoo ASAP !
2013/02/11 17:33:12
(permalink)
Right, Reaper does not support VST3.
And it definitely cooks with water, means it absolutely can crash and do odd stuff.
As for plugin handling:
It tries its best to handle plugin crashes gracefully and you can be lucky getting a crash and the host survives (to my knowledge Sonar tries that as well), but many plugin crashes will still drag the host and maybe the audio driver with it, just like in any other DAW. If you don't take extra steps, of which there are some.
There are some extra compatibility modes the user can choose for misbehaving plugins which are working pretty well, using some security measures like zeroing out buffers before giving them to the plug, extra samples at loop edges and such. These modes helps a lot with sloppy coded plugins already (but wouldn't prevent Reaper to crash if a plugin crashes anyway in an ugly kind of way).
Another method to cope with crash prone plugins is very useful, and maybe something to consider implementing in Sonar (if there isn't something like that already): you can run problematic plugins in dedicated processes, so that they can't drag the host down when they crash, but only its own process (they can still take the audio driver down, so you have to restart, but as the host is still alive, the situation loses much of the horror). Because running separate processes taxes the cpu a bit this is not done automatically or for every plugin. You have to set it yourself on a per-plugin basis if you have a plugin of which you know it will occasionally crash, but you like it so much that you want to use it anyway (btw, this mode was also cool in the 32bit world, as it allowed the plugin to access it's extra share of RAM).
Saying this not to tout Reaper here, just to prevent myth spreading. Reaper doesn't do magic, just stuff every host can consider to implement.
|
backwoods
Max Output Level: -49.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2571
- Joined: 2011/03/23 17:24:50
- Location: South Pacific
- Status: offline
Re:They have to make an update to make SONAR stable ...like SOOOOOoo ASAP !
2013/02/11 17:37:32
(permalink)
That is very intereseting frankandfree.
I believe the new Cubase claims to have a new scheme in place to quasi-isolate vsts so the whole daw won't be taken down by a rogue plugin.
|
Swiller
Max Output Level: -88 dBFS
- Total Posts : 110
- Joined: 2012/04/25 16:19:21
- Location: West Wales UK
- Status: offline
Re:They have to make an update to make SONAR stable ...like SOOOOOoo ASAP !
2013/02/11 18:00:57
(permalink)
Sonar is fine for producing music and creating music. No worse than anything else really.
Always download a demo and see whether you and your system fit with it first.
Computers crash, software crashes. They always have and they always will. Some more than others. A fact of life.
Don't like sonar x2? Move on to something else as stop hanging around like a floating turd that refuses to flush.
Fact is no one really gives a flying toss what anyone uses when push comes to a shove.
These threads are a good laugh though for a relative newb me. It is pure pantomime . Ohhhhhh no it isn't......,,, ooohhhh yes it is !!!
I7 3700k 3.5-3.9ghz, 16gb 1600 ddr3, 240gb ssd sata3, 2tb sata 3 hd, 2gb gt640 nvidia graphics, win 7 he, sonar x2 prod, a500pro, jd800,the magnificent juno 106, virus c, basstation rack, mpx1, xv5050, maschine mikro 1.8 with massive, kontakt,reaktor, mc505 groovebox, tlaudio 5021, 01x, Scarlett 8i6, prs ce24, squire classic vibe 60s.... tele,strat,jazz bass, blues jr 3 navy vintage 30 edition, orange ad5, line 6 ld15 bass amp, akg condenser mic, krk rokit 5, ns10s. Lots of thatchers gold.
|
robert_e_bone
Moderator
- Total Posts : 8968
- Joined: 2007/12/26 22:09:28
- Location: Palatine, IL
- Status: offline
Re:They have to make an update to make SONAR stable ...like SOOOOOoo ASAP !
2013/02/11 18:19:44
(permalink)
backwoods
That is very intereseting frankandfree.
I believe the new Cubase claims to have a new scheme in place to quasi-isolate vsts so the whole daw won't be taken down by a rogue plugin.
I think that would be a great band name: Rogue Plugin. Bob Bone
Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!" Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22 Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64 Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms
|
Susan G
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 12016
- Joined: 2003/11/05 22:49:26
- Location: Putnam County, NY
- Status: offline
Re:They have to make an update to make SONAR stable ...like SOOOOOoo ASAP !
2013/02/11 19:03:27
(permalink)
Midi seems to be pretty much the same in it as Sonar. Actually, I think Sonar is just now catching up to Reaper in that regard. Hi Bub- Not at all in my experience. In fact, I think it's the other way around! -Susan
2.30 gigahertz Intel Core i7-3610QM; 16 GB RAMWindows 10 x64; NI Komplete Audio 6.SONAR Platinum (Lexington) x64
|
chuckebaby
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 13146
- Joined: 2011/01/04 14:55:28
- Status: offline
Re:They have to make an update to make SONAR stable ...like SOOOOOoo ASAP !
2013/02/11 19:32:05
(permalink)
@Swiller,
one of my all time favorite quotes
"Play frogger using prv view"
dude that is awesome.
Windows 8.1 X64 Sonar Platinum x64 Custom built: Asrock z97 1150 - Intel I7 4790k - 16GB corsair DDR3 1600 - PNY SSD 220GBFocusrite Saffire 18I8 - Mackie Control
|
munmun
Max Output Level: -64 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1319
- Joined: 2005/02/10 21:04:27
- Location: Toronto, Canada
- Status: offline
Re:They have to make an update to make SONAR stable ...like SOOOOOoo ASAP !
2013/02/11 20:50:16
(permalink)
Swiller
Sonar is fine for producing music and creating music. No worse than anything else really.
Always download a demo and see whether you and your system fit with it first.
Computers crash, software crashes. They always have and they always will. Some more than others. A fact of life.
Don't like sonar x2? Move on to something else as stop hanging around like a floating turd that refuses to flush.
Fact is no one really gives a flying toss what anyone uses when push comes to a shove.
These threads are a good laugh though for a relative newb me. It is pure pantomime . Ohhhhhh no it isn't......,,, ooohhhh yes it is !!!
This is why I have hesitated to post anything about thinking about moving on. There are some that can get quite abusive here. Almost as though someone rejecting their favourite DAW is a reflection on them. 
|
munmun
Max Output Level: -64 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1319
- Joined: 2005/02/10 21:04:27
- Location: Toronto, Canada
- Status: offline
Re:They have to make an update to make SONAR stable ...like SOOOOOoo ASAP !
2013/02/11 20:57:43
(permalink)
Bub
That doesn't make any sense? 2 of the 3 offerings of Sonar that Cakewalk sells come without the Pro Channel. If the Pro Channel doesn't interest you, then Reaper is still a very viable contender. Especially with all the quality free VST's and synths out there now ... you could basically set yourself up with the equivalent of Sonar Studio for $60 bucks. Exactly. Since Waves has gone nuts with the deals, I have found myself the proud owner of their Diamond package. I need no other plugs. So my Sonar Producer is defunct. I need something quite stripped there and Reaper may just be the ticket if it is stable.
|
Tom Riggs
Max Output Level: -57.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1752
- Joined: 2003/11/08 22:47:26
- Location: Displaced Kansan living in Philippines
- Status: offline
Re:They have to make an update to make SONAR stable ...like SOOOOOoo ASAP !
2013/02/11 21:22:23
(permalink)
By the way for those with nvidea and windows 7 if you want to disable the graphics acceleration it is done in the nvidea control panel. just go to manage 3d settings>cuda-gpus and deselect your card. Click apply and it is disabled. Sorry for the formatting on firefox at the moment.
i7-3770k OC at 4.5Ghz, asus p8z77-m, 16g g.skill aries 1600 c9 ram, Noctua d-14 cooler, RME HDSPe Raydat, Motu FastLane, Nvidea GTX 980 ti 6G, windows 7 and 8.1 pro x64. Sonar Platinum and x3e currently installed My Music My YouTube
|
Splat
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 8672
- Joined: 2010/12/29 15:28:29
- Location: Mars.
- Status: offline
Re:They have to make an update to make SONAR stable ...like SOOOOOoo ASAP !
2013/02/11 21:36:25
(permalink)
If you update the nvidea drivers you can force a clean installation, don't use typical install and choose not to install 3d drivers. Job done.
Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed. @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38. Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.4,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),4 x Seagate ST31500341AS (mirrored),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5.Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1.Addictive Keys,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist.Acronis True Image 2014.
|
Tom Riggs
Max Output Level: -57.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1752
- Joined: 2003/11/08 22:47:26
- Location: Displaced Kansan living in Philippines
- Status: offline
Re:They have to make an update to make SONAR stable ...like SOOOOOoo ASAP !
2013/02/11 21:44:14
(permalink)
Sorry Cake Alex that is not fully correct. It does not disable the use of the gpus for 3d graphics that is already supported by the main driver. What you describe is exactly how I installed the driver and still there are 3d options in the Nvidea Control panel.
i7-3770k OC at 4.5Ghz, asus p8z77-m, 16g g.skill aries 1600 c9 ram, Noctua d-14 cooler, RME HDSPe Raydat, Motu FastLane, Nvidea GTX 980 ti 6G, windows 7 and 8.1 pro x64. Sonar Platinum and x3e currently installed My Music My YouTube
|
hockeyjx
Max Output Level: -74 dBFS
- Total Posts : 839
- Joined: 2003/12/09 18:36:28
- Status: offline
Re:They have to make an update to make SONAR stable ...like SOOOOOoo ASAP !
2013/02/11 21:58:10
(permalink)
Can't you just unzip the nvidia executable and isolate the drivers?
Intel i7 950 Proc, Asus Sabertooth x58 MB, 2 Crucial 128GB SSDs and Seagate 1TBGB drive, 12GB Corsair 1600mhz 8-8-8-24 Memory, Nvidia GeForece 8400 Dual Monitor vid card
Cooler Master Silent Pro 700w Power Supply, Cooler Master Sileo 500
Win 7 64 bit, SPlat 64-bit, Komplete 10 Ultimate, AmpliTube3 and AD2 Tascam FW-1884 and AKAI MPK-49
|
Splat
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 8672
- Joined: 2010/12/29 15:28:29
- Location: Mars.
- Status: offline
Re:They have to make an update to make SONAR stable ...like SOOOOOoo ASAP !
2013/02/11 21:58:28
(permalink)
I stand corrected. Apols. Anyway good idea to remove that driver in addition, plus Phyx.... Having said that I'm not sure about the benefit of removing 3D acceleration if it comes with the main driver, as surely the load would simply be moved onto the CPU if 3D graphics were being displayed (not desirable). I would have thought there would be very little if no resource hit if 3D graphics are not being displayed.... I may be corrected again....
post edited by CakeAlexS - 2013/02/11 22:05:21
Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed. @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38. Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.4,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),4 x Seagate ST31500341AS (mirrored),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5.Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1.Addictive Keys,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist.Acronis True Image 2014.
|
Bub
Max Output Level: -3.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 7196
- Joined: 2010/10/25 10:22:13
- Location: Sneaking up behind you!
- Status: offline
Re:They have to make an update to make SONAR stable ...like SOOOOOoo ASAP !
2013/02/11 22:30:17
(permalink)
Susan G
Midi seems to be pretty much the same in it as Sonar. Actually, I think Sonar is just now catching up to Reaper in that regard. Hi Bub-
Not at all in my experience. In fact, I think it's the other way around!
-Susan
That could very well be the case. For the limited amount I use PRV, Reaper operated the same as X2a to me. But I don't get in to editing all the in depth Midi features I will admit. I do the basics such as insert/delete notes, change lengths, velocity, change a few midi events. The basics. There was '0' learning curve in those areas for me.
"I pulled the head off Elvis, filled Fred up to his pelvis, yaba daba do, the King is gone, and so are you."
|
Tom Riggs
Max Output Level: -57.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1752
- Joined: 2003/11/08 22:47:26
- Location: Displaced Kansan living in Philippines
- Status: offline
Re:They have to make an update to make SONAR stable ...like SOOOOOoo ASAP !
2013/02/12 00:38:15
(permalink)
I would only suggest disabling the cuda-gpu for troubleshooting to see if it corrects issues with display corruption or other weirdness.
i7-3770k OC at 4.5Ghz, asus p8z77-m, 16g g.skill aries 1600 c9 ram, Noctua d-14 cooler, RME HDSPe Raydat, Motu FastLane, Nvidea GTX 980 ti 6G, windows 7 and 8.1 pro x64. Sonar Platinum and x3e currently installed My Music My YouTube
|