Microapp
 
I know "how you do it". I have to do it every day. I hope Keith already knew it too. I am not saying your example is not "the way". It is great, you fixed a bug. I am saying you don't get a gold star for it.  Fix some more, there are plenty that are easily replicated and comparitively low hanging fruit.  It goes with the territory. Buy the ticket, take the ride.

 
You are not only missing the point, I believe you are misrepresenting it. I never said I fixed a bug, and I never asked for a gold star. I never even gave any props to Cakewalk for fixing a bug, which is expected from developers. 
 
Please don't make things up. It would prefer to think it's beneath you. (And don't waste your time telling me to "fix more bugs." I can't write a line of code, except Kontakt scripting and SFZ files if you consider those "code.")
 
Re-read the original post. I pointed out that the person who started all this was THambrecht. The forum followed up on what he presented and came up with a recipe. My only involvement that I mentioned was coming up with some workarounds (which apparently is a callous and uncaring act...who knew!) to hold people over until if/when it got fixed.
 
This thread was all about a forumite, the forum, how a really important fix was prioritized based on the data THambrecht and the forum provided so Cakewalk could act on it, and I thought all those people deserved props. I summarized by saying: "I think THambrecht, the forum, and Keith deserve some props for underscoring the tangible benefits to having a partnership between the users and the company."
 
And I started it off by my saying that this showed "why this forum can be very, very cool." But also as this thread shows, that's not always the case.
 

Anderton

Microapp
 
I know "how you do it". I have to do it every day. I hope Keith already knew it too. I am not saying your example is not "the way". It is great, you fixed a bug. I am saying you don't get a gold star for it.  Fix some more, there are plenty that are easily replicated and comparitively low hanging fruit.  It goes with the territory. Buy the ticket, take the ride.

 
You are not only missing the point, I believe you are misrepresenting it. I never said I fixed a bug, and I never asked for a gold star. I never even gave any props to Cakewalk for fixing a bug, which is expected from developers. 
 
Please don't make things up. It would prefer to think it's beneath you. (And don't waste your time telling me to "fix more bugs." I can't write a line of code, except Kontakt scripting and SFZ files if you consider those "code.")
 
Re-read the original post. I pointed out that the person who started all this was THambrecht. The forum followed up on what he presented and came up with a recipe. My only involvement that I mentioned was coming up with some workarounds (which apparently is a callous and uncaring act...who knew!) to hold people over until if/when it got fixed.
 
This thread was all about a forumite, the forum, how a really important fix was prioritized based on the data THambrecht and the forum provided so Cakewalk could act on it, and I thought all those people deserved props. I summarized by saying: "I think THambrecht, the forum, and Keith deserve some props for underscoring the tangible benefits to having a partnership between the users and the company."
 
And I started it off by my saying that this showed "why this forum can be very, very cool." But also as this thread shows, that's not always the case.

I am aware that you personally did not fix a bug, but you certainly claimed to be part of it along with several other forum members and Keith. The 'you' refers to those involved...the partnership in your own words. You do not get a gold star.
What you showed an example of, is not that the 'partnership worked' but rather that when Cakewalk finally invests time in trying to solve a problem, and listens to forum members, it can be solved. The partnership has always been here..at least the forum end of it. So when Keith or any other Baker locks onto a problem until it is solved, it is because they decided to do so. We're here, and have been all along and begging for cooperation.
 
Try this, since you claim you want a better model... get someone to interact in the forum in an official capacity. Get an intern, hire someone, a forum member, whatever. He could dig into an issue which gets reported on the forum, give updates about fixes, sort out newbie issues from real bugs, that sort of thing.
When someone asks when MAC OS Alpha will be out, he can be the mouthpiece.
Even if he has to say "I can't comment on that", this is still better than SILENCE.
I actually consider "I don't know" a legit answer. I do not consider silence a legit answer.
He could certainly filter out some of the trivial from the real problems and allow developers to develop.
He could ask willing users to try to replicate a problem and discard those which cannot be.
He could probably eliminate half the post volume just by eliminating speculation.
We as users do not want silence. 
 
 
 

BASSIC Productions
Does Gibson have some manager that is really invested in Sonar as a product?
Who is this individual?  Can you get us an email address or any sort of contact
information where we might be able help escalate issues, bugs and/or problems
that truly affect the operation of Sonar?

Anderton

BASSIC Productions
Mr. Anderton, when something isn't working and you offer a complicated work around, it has a very "... then let them eat cake" kind of feel to us users.

 
I didn't realize you spoke for all users, but thanks for the heads-up. It never occurred to me that trying to help people with problems they're having would be seen as my being callous. I figured people who are having some kind of problem would appreciate any solution compared to no solution.
 

Well nobody speaks for all users, but speaking for this user only (myself, to make sure it's excruciatingly clear, which seems to be necessary around here sometimes) I very much do appreciate workarounds being offered when a problem presents itself, for a number of reasons: 
 
First, being of a pragmatic bent I'm the kind of person that would prefer to get past the problem and get on with whatever I'm doing that the problem is obstructing, rather than spend much (if any) time complaining about the problem being there in the first place. Bugs happen. I want to get back to work. 
 
But perhaps more importantly, workarounds are generally the product of lateral, creative, problem-solving-type thinking, and therefore offer much more than merely getting past the disconnect of problem and solution. They also frequently provide a different perspective from which to think about the 'problem', thereby uncovering other possibilities that might never have come to light if the problem had never happened. 
 
Furthermore, since there may be several viable 'workarounds' to any given 'problem' - i.e. several different perspectives to look at the situation from - it's a way of interfacing with someone else's knowledge of the program and/or someone else's creative or problem-solving process. I have been using Sonar for a long time, and have relatively thorough knowledge of the fairly thin slice of its functionality that applies to my everyday workflow, but there are lots of feature areas that I never use and therefore have very little knowledge of. If a 'workaround' involves those unused functions, it can open up ways of working that I would never have noticed or bothered with, as they don't obviously apply to my workflow, and possibly enhance my experience and knowledge of the program - or even show me better ways of doing what I already do. 
 
Finally, I have a hunch that every once in a while this process can fuel actual program innovation, where what starts out as a workaround suggests a different way of working, that leads to a lightbulb moment, that leads to new features and functionality down the road. Whether there are concrete examples of this I cannot say, but it wouldn't surprise me. 
 
So please, Craig and everyone else who helpfully posts 'workarounds' here, whether as a stopgap measure until bugs (hopefully) get squashed, or for the more subtle purposes described above, please ignore the ungrateful voices that posit 'workarounds' as somehow patronizing or unhelpful because they aren't Fixing My Exact Problem Now... please keep offering them. There are those of us who greatly appreciate them, and you never know where they may end up...

subtlearts
First, being of a pragmatic bent I'm the kind of person that would prefer to get past the problem and get on with whatever I'm doing that the problem is obstructing, rather than spend much (if any) time complaining about the problem being there in the first place. Bugs happen. I want to get back to work. 

This is my situation too. Having worked with software for over 40 years I know there will be bugs. The more you push software into areas that weren't tested thoroughly, or for which others have no use case, or were not accounted for in the original product design, the more likely you will find those bugs.
 
However I am also aware that pilot error is a huge factor. Despite using SONAR for almost 17 years, I still make rookie mistakes. I don't excoriate myself for those any more than I excoriate a company for making them.
 
People need to realize human beings are flawed, imperfect, fragile, and often damaged. We're all in this together. By helping our fellow travelers we improve the world. By understanding them, we improve ourselves.

Hi. Thanks for trying to post something positive here. Appreciate it.
If nothing else, this thread has given me perspective as to where I will bother to try to help out in the future.
There are always someone new to put on that list 
All the best.

I know hostility when I see it, and my hostility meter's needle didn't move.
 
But let's get reality out of the way. Games and artist programs outsell DAWs by multiple orders of magnitude. For example Electronic Arts has 7,645 employees. Adobe had somewhere around 10,000 last time I looked. People don't seem to understand the market for DAWs is a tiny fringe of a tiny niche in a tiny market, and that alone imposes constraints. Unless people are willing to pay $2,000 - $3,000 for a DAW, these constraints will continue to exist (and not just for Cakewalk by any means). Other DAWs don't deserve to get the crap they endure on their forums.
 
I've been thinking about something else...music. There are bands that are sloppy but exciting. There are bands that play to a click track and reproduce what's on their CD. I think the people who like SONAR like that the company pushes limits and take chances. Yes, that can lead to occasional fails, but also to elements that no other DAW has. 
 
I can only say what I've said many times. It is not a company's responsibility to conform to an individual's needs. It is the individual's responsibility to find a program that conforms to their needs. With few exceptions, that will not be possible - which entails making compromises.
 
I started this thread because I wanted to encourage forumites to follow THambrecht's example, give him and the forum props for their detective work, and I wanted Cakewalk to take better advantage of what this forum has to offer. I'm sorry I ever started it, which is why I've cut back my participation in the forum recently, and will scale it back further going forward since I apparently cannot convey what I want to say with sufficient clarity.