If I had any idea that some customers would get so upset about this,

I was kinda shocked but mostly amused at the backlash against the tweets. I like getting the daily update--and no, I'm not on twitter. How curious that I can find out about the daily features anyway  So put at least one voice in the likes-it column.

And as to the complainers about it... sheesh.

No, we won't be downloading first day, we usually wait until first patch before comitting.

Marketing- you don't have to respond to everyone's gripes like that in detail- just not professional IMHO- it would have been better to just say
To all concerned- to clarify- Cakewalk is offering a great deal- if you buy 8 now- you will get the next version for free.
that is it- not the next paid update- update means we are paying for an 8.x update.
It is not hard to see that people are confused on what they are buying- so- Marketing- do your job and make it easy for them to understand.  It is completely obvious by the amount of posts this whole subject has accumulated that the announcement was not clear enough- REGARDLESS IF YOU THINK IT WAS-  us lowly music types need it to be fed to us in easy to swallow pieces- we don't have the mindpower to figure out what you are really meaning to say.
SO, please- just come out and rephrase this whole thing so everyone is clear (as it is painfully obvious that we are not).
Thanks

All I can say marketing administrator is that it took until early September to make a concise statement  to clear up something that was stated in August. Comments about the poor handling of the whole 'paid update' business abound on this forum....instead of blaming your customers for their confusion and frustration I suggest you have a subjective and realistic look at how you have handled your promoting of this new version.

If this was your idea of fun then I'd hate to see what it would look like if you wanted to put your cutomer's through a hard time. Also your statement  "we would have made you all wait" smacks of an 'us and them mentality' and consequently reveals somewhat of a negative attitude on your part, so I find it hard to believe you were doing this as some big favour and quote "a bit of fun".

I'm really not interested in geting into a debate about how you sell your product, but when a product is presented to me to purchase I expect to know what it is and when it will be delivered...not much to ask really when there's a zillion other companies out there doing just that!
 

Forgive me - TO ALL THE JAW JACKERS - this thread is ridiculous.

Sheesh. Really.
If you are getting more features, free, for what others are going to pay for, what is the big deal?  Does it matter if it is CALLED sonar 8.7, or SONAR PLUS, or SONAR 9, or SUPERSONAR??  Is the name going to make any difference on your productions? (Please don't tell me I'm stupid - I am a tech guy and I am well aware of the difference between updates and upgrades).

People scream every summer because they want, covet and crave the slightest crumb of information regarding every new release... now people are screaming because they are getting them 'dribbled out' on Twitter.  If you don't like it, don't read the posts!  Just wait for the release announcement.

As musicians, don't you understand that if you don't like the music, you change stations, or walk out of the performance, or club? Or do you confront the band because they are not stylistically pleasing you? "The guitar's too loud/soft, the music is too slow/fast... " - - - don't people that do that piss you off?  Thought so.... Then why has this thread devolved into a gripefest at marketing? Wouldn't your time be better spent creating new music?  Are you a marketer?  So what if Cakewalk is trying something different and new?  Isn't innovation, or taking a risk, accepted in the musical community anymore? Or are we so creatively vapid we prefer to throw rocks - instead of building something positive and productive anymore? Are we becoming as shallow as all that?

Do you use Sonar because of the marketing?  Or because it works for you? Maybe you decide on a product because you like the color of the owner's manual.  

Some people gripe about the heat.  Others gripe about the cold.  You can't please everyone, and some people can never be pleased, no matter what.  Things can always be better, but they could be SO, SO much worse. We live in a world where 28 children die every minute from starvation but your britches are in a twist about something like this. Please.  Come on.  We have great lives.  It is amazing to have computers, software, AND creativity.

As for me, I remember when I could not afford to record because studio time was so expensive.  Thank you, Cakewalk, for changing my life. 
I can not say that about any other single program I own.
 I am grateful.

Waiting for my free whatever it is going to be... I have shared my foolish 2 cents, so I will now expend my energy working on some new music that may bring something good to someone else's life -

<gripe /off>

Alan Richards you need to get informed. The reason people were heated up about this next version of Sonar was not whether it was an update or an upgrade but what was supposed to be included in that update (although the term "paid update" caused confusion, just read a few posts to find that out).
The wording was used of a "paid update" which would include the features Kate Watt mentioned, but after Kate released the paid update information containing all the so call "goodies" on 01/07/09 marketing made a statement on 7/07/09 that they could not disclose what would be in the next release.
And I quote;
"As far as what the upgrade will be called, exactly when it will be available, and what features it will include, the only thing I can definitively tell you today is that full version of Rapture will not be included as part of this upgrade. For the rest, you can speculate all you want, but you’ll need to wait for our official announcement to get the full scoop".
In addition to this on the 04/09/09 I received a reply from CW customer service politely refusing to clearly confirm the features Kate had stated would be in the next version.
 
Given that statement from marketing AND the direct email response I received from CW customer service that they would not assure me the features were going to be included as a bonus and given there was no information on this forum only a lot of people asking the same sort of questions I wondered WTF was going. With the information I had I saw no reason to buy S8 as had been heavily promoted by CW and said so.
 
Why would I buy S8 and then have to spend more money to get the features I wanted  if they were not included until Sonar 9. Why would I not just buy S9...tell me that!
Have the decency to read the previous posts and get informed before making statements!

AudioMax -
I am aware of this whole thing, the issue you point out, from the beginning, from the very first announcement.  It was what got me off the fence to go to S8 in the first place.
I fully agree that there was missteps on Cakewalk's part regarding the announcement. The thing is, that if a definite statement is made, prematurely, then that statement is found to be inaccurate, that Cakewalk could find themselves in a huge legal problem... maybe they were still determining exactly what the next up-'thing' -- whatever -- would be called and exactly what would be included. 
I'm sure you know that software development is a continuous, ongoing project.  I am guessing that they had, oh, lets say 30 new features that would be the next planned version ,15 are ready, and 15 are not.  Coding and recoding can prove challenging (the notation issue comes to mind) and the law of unexpected consequences plays a big role here.  So, maybe, Cakewalk decides to do a feature release, not a full blown new version, but to get their new stuff that they have been working on, and IS ready, out there and available.  Maybe, since Sonar is pretty well developed, it would be better to have cheaper, incremental improvements, so that they can take the time to do massive rewrites that would absorb too many resources in a one year cycle.  And, as regarding the 'Kate's announcement' issue, well; if things are 98% ready to go on a feature, but then something happens (and LOTS can happen at the last minute -- unexpected and nasty glitch, employees gets sick - quits - whatever... it happens!) and the feature was already announced, there would be a lynch mob heading towards 268 Summer Street, calling for Greg Hendershott's head. As it is, Cakewalk is currently looking for another Senior Software Engineer as of yesterday.
I was just surprised at how accusatory and intense this discussion has become.

I am a small business owner, as I am sure Cakewalk would  be categorized. The entire company has 65 employees, according to my sources.  By contrast, Microsoft employs nearly 90,000. I know how things can get a bit disconnected in a small company so I tend to give them a pass on stuff like this.  Your background and experience may elicit a different response. 

I do know that we (our own business) have customers that we have bent over backwards for, and lost money with, just to do the right thing for the customer, fixing problems we didn't cause (contrary to the customer's uninformed opinion).  And I also know what it is like to be blasted for doing the best we could - unfairly blasted because the customer's expectations were wildly unrealistic and ill-informed.  Happens a lot in a Tech environment - so I hate to see it happen here.  Civility goes a long way with me in my business, and I assume that's a pretty general rule.

Oh - and I am sure that the software is still being tweaked... (so they are not 'delaying the release' to twitter out features). 
 
Peace out, let's make music!   
Alan
 
I read pretty much every single post on this issue before I commented - so, FYI, I do have the decency to read the previous posts and get informed before making statements. Just to clear the air. I read too many irrational posts in a row, I guess, and it got under my skin. I totally understand the concerns, and the confusion. I am glad it is clearer now myself.

koolbass


In this world, there are always going to be people who see a glass that is half full, and there will always be those who complain because the glass is half empty.

It depends on what's in the glass
 
 
Seriously though, I can appreciate everyones' points of view on this - my initial reaction was that the whole thing was a bit childish and unprofessional but having read Carl's (Marketing) posts I can understand the value such a strategy might afford Cakewalk. I've had the pleasure of dealing with Carl before and can say that he's a good guy - straight down the middle and an asset to the company *.
 
The important thing is that we are so lucky to be dealing with a company that actually bothers to really listen to its customers and I guess the fact that some of the tid-bits being released are referring to feautures and improvements that forum users have actually asked for is a major plus point for the Bakers.
 
I still think the 'Twitter' idea is a little daft but again, I can now appreciate it's worth - maybe if the OP had sort of mentioned this after giving us the forum links for the drip feed it would have just appeared more professional'.
 
 
Steve
 
 
 
 
* Just PM me for my address to send the VS-700 to
 
 

OK, here's what may be a difficult question for Cakewalk Sales...

If I were to take advantage of this current upgrade/update deal (Producer 7 to Producer 8), would I be treated on par with a new user? 

For instance, say in October, you release this product as Producer 9.0. If I bought now, I'd get Producer 9.0 also.

But, would I also get Producer 9.01, 9.2, 9.3, or whatever the final stable version becomes, just like a new user who came along in November and bought Sonar Producer 9.0?

Need I explain the reasoning behind my question?

Anyone who's been a Sonar user for a version or two knows that it takes few major releases (8.1, 8.2, 8.3, etc.) before the bugs are out of the build. The final release version of Cakewalk 8 is 8.3.1. The final version of Producer 7 was 7.02. The final version of Producer 6 was 6.2.1, etc. If I buy this upgrade, I want to know if I'll be eligible for all the upgrades/updates to whatever the final release of Producer 9.X becomes at no extra charge, as it's been with each other version of Sonar I've owned, ie, 4, 6, and 7.

Is this so or has this already been confirmed?


--kwgm

i've also really enjoyed getting the daily feature/tidbit announcements. it's done what was intended: gotten me psyched for S9. i'm glad they're being posted on the forum and not just on twitter, that would've been silly.

one complaint: the screenshots are mainly annoying cos they're so frickin small.

OT: Here's me being a nag, but just to point out that CW staff has the same problem as we regular forum members do with the new quoting behavior!

-Susan

Marketing [Cakewalk
]

kwgm


OK, here's what may be a difficult question for Cakewalk Sales...

If I were to take advantage of this current upgrade/update deal (Producer 7 to Producer 8), would I be treated on par with a new user? 

For instance, say in October, you release this product as Producer 9.0. If I bought now, I'd get Producer 9.0 also.

But, would I also get Producer 9.01, 9.2, 9.3, or whatever the final stable version becomes, just like a new user who came along in November and bought Sonar Producer 9.0?

Need I explain the reasoning behind my question?

Anyone who's been a Sonar user for a version or two knows that it takes few major releases (8.1, 8.2, 8.3, etc.) before the bugs are out of the build. The final release version of Cakewalk 8 is 8.3.1. The final version of Producer 7 was 7.02. The final version of Producer 6 was 6.2.1, etc. If I buy this upgrade, I want to know if I'll be eligible for all the upgrades/updates to whatever the final release of Producer 9.X becomes at no extra charge, as it's been with each other version of Sonar I've owned, ie, 4, 6, and 7.

Is this so or has this already been confirmed?


--kwgm
 

All people who will own the next version will be treated the same, regardless of how you came to own it (pirates excluded).  That means if you buy it at retail, or get it for free through a current upgrade promotion, you will be eligile for the same things, including any maintenance point releases that we might issue.

Hey, thanks for that. I appreciate the quick feedback.

Good luck getting the new release done.

"including any maintenance point releases that we might issue. "
OK kiddies- we have a new word to jump on.  So, is the paid UPDATE/UPGRADE different than UPDATE/MAINTENANCE.  I think if we can clear this up- we can move on to new threads.  I am believing we are paying for the next upgrade and not for the next 8.x maintenance "update". 
Please please please just confirm this so we can return to our regular scheduled program.

Can I quote you on that Susan

Susan G


Hi Steve-

Can I quote you on that Susan

You can try!

-Susan

LOL!
 
On a serious note, I think the old 'quote in a box' was much clearer and easier to read.
 
And I agree 100% with you concerning the other feature you asked to be reinstated....
 
 
 
 
 

I'll jump in with a question if Kate or other Admins are still reading...
 
I took the plunge and purchased Sonar Studio 8 in July. I know I'm thus eligible for the free download of the upcoming "update".
 
Will there be any advantage of jumping to the Professional version now? I was hoping to wait for my $100 summer rebate check to come before I did the upgrade.  The upgrade to Pro 8 is $199, what can I expect in cost and/or installation hassle if I wait until the next update is out? Any advantage or disadvantage for acting now or waiting?