ORIGINAL: montezuma

What book was it you read?

The Beatles recording sessions.the official Abbey Road Studio Session Notes 1962-1970,I really enjoyed it.In a way it's a snapshot of the history of recording along with the story of the Beatles working lives.


The more I think about varispeed,the more I wonder why SONAR doesn't have it,That's it I now officially have a gripe!

ORIGINAL: papa2004

Well, I got Reaper installed and working (much more difficult to setup than I recall SONAR to be)...Found the vari-speed slider and, TA-DA, guess what? Works on audio tracks but MIDI tracks are only altered by tempo...The pitch remains the same as the original speed...I guess the option will be to bounce any relevant MIDI tracks to audio as a "rough mix" and then do the vari-speed overdubs...

Well, that makes sense. To alter a MIDI track's pitch by the same amount as the audio, the program would have to know the exact pitch-bend range of each receiving MIDI synth (be it hardware or softsynth), and different patches might have different pitch-bend ranges, or a patch might only have a 200 cent range but the varispeed is set to half-speed (-1200 cents), etc., etc. MIDI would certainly have to be printed to audio before expecting varispeed to affect it.

ORIGINAL: Glennbo

ORIGINAL: papa2004

Well, I got Reaper installed and working (much more difficult to setup than I recall SONAR to be)...Found the vari-speed slider and, TA-DA, guess what? Works on audio tracks but MIDI tracks are only altered by tempo...The pitch remains the same as the original speed...I guess the option will be to bounce any relevant MIDI tracks to audio as a "rough mix" and then do the vari-speed overdubs...

Obviously a variable speed option can't work with midi, because the midi spec works in semi-tones, not cycles per second. If you slowed down a track to a pitch that is a microtonal difference from the original, midi can't hit those notes, unless you also employ pitch bend data. It could probably be done, but what a massive coding adventure that would be! Something I haven't experimented with so far, is that Reaper can be a rewire device, so it's at least theoretically possible to use Reaper as a plugin to Sonar. Whether you can really do it, is another thing. ;)

Haha! Simultaneous posts!

I wasn't aware that Reaper could be a rewire *client*; if that's the case, then I wonder if it would be possible to use it like Melodyne with MelodyneBridge to do some on-the-fly varispeeding - i.e., send the audio out to Reaper, do any necessary varispeed overdubbing, and render it back. Wouldn't there by tempo sync issues, though? If SONAR were the host, then Reaper would still be locked to SONAR's non-varispeeded tempo.

ORIGINAL: RTGraham

ORIGINAL: Glennbo

ORIGINAL: papa2004

Well, I got Reaper installed and working (much more difficult to setup than I recall SONAR to be)...Found the vari-speed slider and, TA-DA, guess what? Works on audio tracks but MIDI tracks are only altered by tempo...The pitch remains the same as the original speed...I guess the option will be to bounce any relevant MIDI tracks to audio as a "rough mix" and then do the vari-speed overdubs...

Obviously a variable speed option can't work with midi, because the midi spec works in semi-tones, not cycles per second. If you slowed down a track to a pitch that is a microtonal difference from the original, midi can't hit those notes, unless you also employ pitch bend data. It could probably be done, but what a massive coding adventure that would be! Something I haven't experimented with so far, is that Reaper can be a rewire device, so it's at least theoretically possible to use Reaper as a plugin to Sonar. Whether you can really do it, is another thing. ;)

Haha! Simultaneous posts!

Hehe, I was thinking the same thing as I read your post! ;)

I wasn't aware that Reaper could be a rewire *client*; if that's the case, then I wonder if it would be possible to use it like Melodyne with MelodyneBridge to do some on-the-fly varispeeding - i.e., send the audio out to Reaper, do any necessary varispeed overdubbing, and render it back. Wouldn't there by tempo sync issues, though? If SONAR were the host, then Reaper would still be locked to SONAR's non-varispeeded tempo.

Like I said, I've never tried to use Reaper as a Rewire plugin, but I know for sure you can load it. Just this moment I flamed up Sonar 5, went to the synthrack and added Reaper as a Rewire plugin. I now have Reaper on Sonar's screen as a plugin. What you can do from here, I got no freeking idea! <G>

ORIGINAL: Gary McCoy

Do I understand that Sonar 6 DID have this capability? I fired up S6 last night and could find no reference to varispeed. Where is the function located? Did they use another name for it perhaps? Any info is appreciated.

To the best of my knowledge, no version of SONAR has included the vari-speed feature. There have been various plugins that would alter clips using time stretching/compressing algorithms but not a functional variable speed option.

Bump - because it makes me sad that Sonar doesn't have a varispeed control How am I supposed to sound like Lindsey Buckingham/Fleetwood Mac if Melodyne just doesn't cut it!

Looks like I'll be trying the Reaper demo.

There are hardware solutions that are simple to use - the beauty being that the DAW program has no extra processing to do.

For variable amounts :-

I think if you have an RME soundcard - you can do it because they have an adjustable sample rate clock on board. Because Sonar is using the cards sample rate as it's timing reference, changing the rate changes both tempo and pitch just like vari-speed. I'm not sure if RME allow enough adjustment range to do anything more than tuning the project to an un-tunable instrument, although it should be enough for multi-tracking for a fatter sound.

I can do it using my old Roland VS-840 recorder as a variable sample clock - although it would be no use for other than 44.1k projects. Plug it's s/pdif out into my soundcard and set the VS-840 for vari-speed, switch the soundcard to external clock and now the Roland vari-speed will control Sonars speed (or any other audio program using the soundcard). Sonar doesn't know the rate is wrong because my soundcard doesn't report the actual external rate - it carries on thinking it's on the set rate for the project. It works because the Roland VS vari-speed (aka vari-pitch) works by adjusting it's own sample-rate which is repeated at the s/pdif output.

For fixed amounts:-

You may be able to switch your soundcards sample-rate while Sonar is open and get away without it complaining that it doesn't match the project setting - so in a 44.1k project you might have 48k or 32k actual rate.
Alternatively, you may have a piece of external digital hardware with selectable sample-rates and can drive your soundcard rate from a digital clock connection as the Roland VS example above.

Caveat - Not all soundcards blindly follow external s/pdif clock. Some re-sample the incoming audio according to their own set internal clock - so varying the external rate will have no affect on the DAW.

Jim

ORIGINAL: Peestie

Yeah, it's okay for vocals but it just doesn't sound as great on some other instruments. I've downloaded the Reaper demo and I was able to pitch a mix up by less than a semitone and it still sounds natural, which is something that just doesn't work that great in Melodyne.

Fair enough.

Just another chime in for a plus one on varispeed. Sometimes an entire song was mixed with varispeed for effect... ever try to play along to a song and your instrument wasn't in tune?  Varispeed in action.

Jim

Yes please, true analogue-style varispeed would be a highly useful addition.

Please note that we are not asking for an alternative way of getting a similar effect, we are asking for true varispeed: varying the transport rate of the whole project. I would guess a range from -50% (half speed) to +100% (double speed) would be ideal, but personally I'd be happy with +/-26% (four semitones up or down). How difficult can that be to implement? Okay, there are bound to be problems to do with sample rates etc, but nothing that remotely compares with the signal processing complexities of AudioSnap or V-Vocal.

The interface could consist of just two controls: a varispeed on/off toggle, and a slider or rotary knob with a speed readout/type-in box. Nice job!