WHY IS SONAR NOT THE INDUSTRY STANDARD???

I had a conversation with a friend of mine today who has a production team and they are using Logic and Protools.  I was talking to him about finding and studio to Master a project for me.  He stated if you mix correctly you don't need to Master.  He asked me what I was using, I told him Sonar Producer 8 and he said man you have to get Logic or Protools on a Mac a PC cannot compare.  He said a PC can't compete, he said the samples that Logic has it in will remove the need for any instrument.  I told him I have been a Cakewalk person for years and I like it, he said the the Industry Standard is Protools and know other DAW can compare.  He said if you take a project done in Sonar to an agent he is not going to even want to hear it because it is not Protools. Depsite feeling small because everything I came back with to defend Sonar was shot down by what is considered Industry Standard.

How come we don't have more industry studios using Sonar?  The bigger question is how can we change this, I have read several forums on the difference of Logic vs Sonar and there will always be a debate, but the fact of the matter is Protools and Logic is what the Industry is using unless I am wrong.

How can we put Sonar on the Industry map?

The Music Industry I will say this I live in Florida and all of the good studios here are using Protools

yorolpal


What industry?

Well, the situation is what it is, and isn't likely to change anytime soon. Figuring out how we got here is pointless, and has been hashed to death here, there, and everywhere.

It's not like CW is going to find some magic fairy dust and change "The Industry" opinion of their product. They have made their bed and now...well, you know.

Pro-Tools is like Kleenex. It has become the generic layman's name for a DAW. How the Hell would someone from "The Industry" know what tool you used to record your track unless you told them?

Anyone who thinks you must have Pro-Tools to record a hit song is ignorant. I would hazard a guess that most of those people have never even looked at anything else.

(edit)

Oh, and your friend is an idiot who clearly has absolutely no idea what he is talking about. Stop listening to his advice. How he got where he is is anyone's guess.

Actually, Sonar is the industry standard.  All those people using ProTools and Logic are behind the times and in denial.

Seth Perlstein [Cakewalk

2. SONAR Producer ships with 20+ gigs of content

And that's about 19.5 gigs too much IMHO!

yeah this has been discussed to death on here....

long story short -- pro-tools was the first -- back in the 90's -- they implimented a separate hard drive and saved cpu .. computers in general wernt really strong enough to do it alone -- hence the HD system .. and why it exisits

they were first.... and nailed the market -- all the big studio's used them and never looked back

thats the short version --- they were first and beat the rest to the market

as stated above by people -- if anyone thinks thats pro-tools is the only way or only good program to produce a great CD/album/mp3 ect... then they are just pro-Fools

Paul

While I certainly don't have an answer, I do have an opinion. Personally I think Sonar would become more standardized throughout the industry if CW would quit making making it a marketing circus and took the product more seriously. Instead of slapping on gobs of free do-dads that professionals never use, distributing half-baked big ideas that never really work right and never seem to get updated and fixed, and ignoring fundamental functionality that should unquestioningly work (like automation, envelopes), instead provide the rock-solid tools that professionals need. And for god's sake quit selling bug-ridden first versions!

Much of it is in how Sonar is perceived. I do believe among the greater majority of industry professions that Sonar is seen as buggy software designed for hobbyists with home studios. There's a reason that perception exists...because they DO sell buggy software and their marketing is aimed squarely and the home recording crowd.

Regards,

DB

It's also a good integrated solution that has the control surface, the DSP cards, the plugins that run on them, the convertors that go up to 192 KHz (not saying it's a need or a must-have, but it's what they do) and the preamps that go in front, which are of very good quality.

There is one more thing, and this is true for any industry. They've been using it for almost 20 years, all of their files are stored in that format, the format is not easily interoperable, they are efficient using it, and Digi provides good consulting services for setting up a studio, and also industry-strong support contracts (AKA expensive).
It's the same when looking at other systems.. Windows is the preferred desktop system in any corporation, even if MAC OS or Linux are (arguably) better. Oracle and IBM DB2 are the leading databases regarding business applications, despite the fact they are heavy, expensive and complicated. Banks are still running 40 year old COBOL applications on AS400, and it's not tomorrow they will change them.
No matter the industry, there are always tools that become de facto standards, and once they are settled, it's very difficult to change them. 

Digi would really need to screw things up bad, or a different company would have to invent something really new, that would shift the paradigm for the industry to look elsewhere.. which by the way is what Digi did back then.. The industry standard was SSL and ADAT tapes.. Before that SSL shifted the paradigm by creating "computerized" consoles that could be automated.. Alesis came up with the digital tapes which replaced the analog tapes..  and so and so and so back to when music was a caveman hitting a log with a branch.

I had a conversation with a friend of mine today who has a production team and they are using Logic and Protools. I was talking to him about finding and studio to Master a project for me. He stated if you mix correctly you don't need to Master. He asked me what I was using, I told him Sonar Producer 8 and he said man you have to get Logic or Protools on a Mac a PC cannot compare. He said a PC can't compete, he said the samples that Logic has it in will remove the need for any instrument. I told him I have been a Cakewalk person for years and I like it, he said the the Industry Standard is Protools and know other DAW can compare. He said if you take a project done in Sonar to an agent he is not going to even want to hear it because it is not Protools. Depsite feeling small because everything I came back with to defend Sonar was shot down by what is considered Industry Standard. How come we don't have more industry studios using Sonar? The bigger question is how can we change this, I have read several forums on the difference of Logic vs Sonar and there will always be a debate, but the fact of the matter is Protools and Logic is what the Industry is using unless I am wrong. How can we put Sonar on the Industry map?

He doesn't know what he is talking about. Mastering has nothing to do with whether its done on a PC or Mac. Nor does mixing either. I also believe he is overstating the case against mastering. He would be more correct in saying mastering is far easier with a well mixed source. But mastering is far more then just making a song sound better. This means he doesn't know that he doesn't know much.

The reason Sonar is not the industry standard is because of people just like your friend.  He obviously has been drinkin the kool-aid if you know what I mean.  If you were familiar with Logic, you would have laughed your ass off when he told you the samples could replace instruments.  People perpetuate this BS and it just continues to be lapped up by the lowest common denomiators so it keeps spreading like a virus. 

Here is your mission should you choose to accept it:  Create a killer production that blows your buddy out of the water.  Only then can people be made to understand that the DAW doesn't matter.

Hi all,
 
a few thoughts to throw into the pot:
 
Something that Protools/Logic have in common with each other is that they are both produced by companies that also make Non Linear Video editors, in the case of Protools, the partner product is Avid and Apple have Final Cut Pro. Both these products are also the 'industry standard' for the digital video editing market. mmm.
 
Might not automatically sound like much but when you think about the amount of film/tv/advertising/computer game (and who knows what else) work that is about in this age of having had an explosion in the number of tv channels, games platforms, multiplex cinemas etc..  not to mention on-line and mobile/handheld platform distribution ...  the ability to cover both the audio and visual requirements of any production 'in-house' is a big advantage, hence Protools/Avid combinations in the biggest most expensive studios and Logic/Final Cut setups in many others too.
 
I'm on a Film Studies course but have had an interest in music production for a long time. For the sake of conforming/allowing myself access to the 'industry standard' I was going to buy a Mac and Final Cut Pro, at huge expense which I found hard to justify. In the end I saw Adobe CS4 (A video production package) available to me as a student (Cue the booing and throwing of rotten food ;o) ) at an absolutely mind numbing discount that made the decision an instant no-brainer. I stayed With my laptop, bought CS4 and then SP7 and have upgraded to SP8 since.
 
For me (Although having prchased SP7,) where Cakewalk miss out is in not having a package for students. I have a few friends (honestly) who are on Music Tech courses at my Uni, and they are all getting into Logic and Protools because that's the equipment that is on offer for them to train with. The truth is that whatever DAW you use it has virtually nothing to do with the creative stuff that goes on in your mind. We might say that the DAW has to give you the abiltity to translate your creativity quickly into a real product, but, once you've learnt to operate your software properly there is nothing to stop you achieving this at all, be you a user of Protools/Logic/Sonar or whatever. Its just a case of investing enough time in the product you've purchased to understand and know it. If Cakewalk had a decent - and I mean really decent - Education package, there would be a lot more people graduating from Universities and entering the jobs market within the industry who had been trained on Protools/Logic and Sonar, over time that could make some difference to what may become the future of the 'industry standard', if such an achievement matters anyway, world domination is so passe. As long as I have the choice, I will be faithful to Adobe becasue the products I have from them enable me to do whatever I want, with no real difference in quality between them and the other 'industry standards'.
 
I've invested the time in them, I know how to use them, they work with my creativity and they cost me less. Simple.
 
One of the key things in my learning to use the Adobe Software is the amount of online tutorials that are available - free. I have had no formal training in these products but am really pleased with what I am becoming increasingly more able to do with them as I continue to learn more. If Cakewalk had a similar support network it would make a real difference to the number of users who were happy with their products and free of any worry about weather or not it is the 'industry standard'
 
to see what i mean google:
'adobe tv'
'video copilot' - this it has to be said is an amazing website for trianing - yes it sells stuff too, but the products are never rammed down your throat.
'creative cow'
 
some of these websites even have tutorials on how to mix/master use audio effects plugins and so on - things that are often left to last in video production (if known about at all) but here, on video production websites they still get their own tutorials. As far as I can tell (and a big hands up by way of apology here if I am wrong) when it comes to in-depth, free, online video tutorials, we have nothing. I can not express what a difference these free on-line tutorials have made to my perception of my Adobe products and to my own ability to translate my creative ideas into real world finsihed products. Cakewalk I really really think you are missing a trick here.
 
Good luck all,
 
focus on learning your products and when the creativity hits, a finished product won't be far behind.

^^^^^^^

He's right. He always is

Industry Shmindustry ... i hate standards anyway... Sonar all the way.

strikinglyhandsome1


I've never seen it as my job to make Sonar the industry standard.

I see my role as buying it, using it and looking fabulous as I do.

ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!

Freddie, in a pro studio environment there's usually separate rigs for VSTi's, sometimes a dedicated composers room, etc.  They don't try and do everything on the main PT HD rig.