BenMMusTech
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Re:WHY doesn't Cakewalk care about the staff view?
2011/12/28 17:38:03
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garrigus
gtgarner
What other major DAW has notation? * Pro Tools
* Cubase
* Logic
* Digital Performer
There may be others, but those are the ones I know of off the top of my head.
Scott
--
Scott R. Garrigus - http://garrigus.com/
* Author of the Cakewalk Sonar and Sony Sound Forge Power book series: http://garrigus.com/?PowerBooks
* Author of the Cakewalk Sonar ProAudioTutor video tutorial series: http://garrigus.com/?ProAudioTutor
* Publisher of the DigiFreq free music technology newsletter: http://digifreq.com/?DigiFreq
* Publisher of the NewTechReview free consumer technology newsletter: http://newtechreview.com/?NewTechReview
I hate the old plus 1 but +1 to scott. I have started to use Notion 3 and have my own little thread about my journy with this program. Notion 3 as a Rewire client can take over the functions of Sonar's or lack of a notation functions. The problem is Notion 3 is only 44k, which is a problem for me at the moment I have a project (96k) and I want to fix up the string quartet, or more or less the solo violin. I am going to have to downsample the track, to make this work. The other problem I have is I have exported the file out as an XLM (I think that is the file type) and as many users have reported, when you open it up in Notion 3 it is a mess. It became obvious to me that I was going to have to write the score out again, in Notion 3. I was a big knocker of X1 but now I realize how silly I was but this has to be fixed, I want and need both, that is the modern way of entering music into a DAW, eg the piano roll but I also need the staff because I like to dabble in Post Modern Neo Classical Music (I made that up because, I can't say I dabble in classical when it, as I have been told, is not classical, my music just has classical elements). So that is a big yes for me, the next thing The Cake need to do is fix this problem, do this and I think no other DAW will compete but this is just my opinion. Ben
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gtgarner
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Re:WHY doesn't Cakewalk care about the staff view?
2011/12/28 17:42:02
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JeffinOz
I have just had to do an Avid Pro Tools course as part of my teaching for next year. It was on Pro Tools 10. Have any of you had any real experience with this version? I doubt it. I was not a PT fan but I must say I have been a bit converted to say the least after doing this course. (I am confused now!)
The PT score editor is excellent (probably the best as of now) and don't forget that Avid owns Sibelius now. And they told us they are about to update the whole shebang so that if you are running Sibelius inside Tools it will all work rather fantastically well. You will be able to play the sounds from Sibelius etc and transfer midi data in real time over to Sibelius etc.
This will proably play out to be the ultimate combination, for people like the OP take note!
I'll believe it when I see it.
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trimph1
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Re:WHY doesn't Cakewalk care about the staff view?
2011/12/28 18:26:22
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pwal
i like eggs
yum...becan and eggs.
The space you have will always be exceeded in direct proportion to the amount of stuff you have...Thornton's Postulate. Bushpianos
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trimph1
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Re:WHY doesn't Cakewalk care about the staff view?
2011/12/28 18:30:46
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The whole idea of Ray Charles being self taught is kind of silly, really. He garnered his knowledge through many different channels-be they through music teachers at his church or through the school for the blind. One learns through practice, hearing, and activity....with others.
The space you have will always be exceeded in direct proportion to the amount of stuff you have...Thornton's Postulate. Bushpianos
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vintagevibe
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Re:WHY doesn't Cakewalk care about the staff view?
2011/12/28 18:36:15
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gtgarner
ProTools Score Editor? Come on. You've got to be kidding. There is nothing decent about it.
It has always been the rule of thumb that everyone purchase an external editor for Sonar.
1. Create your scores in Sonar (MIDI)
2. copy your tracks to a ReWire instrument.
3. export to Sibelius.
THats always been the way to go.
Cakewalk - please don't provide Sonar processing resources to the Staff View. Sonar is a DAW not an editor.
Hmmm, I can't remember what DAW stands for........?
Prootools, Cuebase and Logic all have notation tools that are robust enough to compose in a modern DAW. Sonar does not. If you do not understand the difference between what is need in a DAW and what Sibelius and Finale do you need to do some searches. There probably hundreds of pages that explain it. Rewire is not a solution. Especially the way you described it. The fact that you don't know what other DAWs even have notation indicates that you don't use and are ignorant of the need for notation. The fact that you request that Cakewalk cease to develope things that you personally don't use leads one to conclude that you're the type of person that feels as long as your personal needs are met everyone else can go to h*ll.
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doncolga
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Re:WHY doesn't Cakewalk care about the staff view?
2011/12/28 18:36:31
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jsg
2. Cakewalk is primarily interested in marketing to illiterate musicians who don't read or write music and who simply don't know what they don't know about the power of notation in realizing complexity, subtlety and structural development. Perhaps Cakewalk's primary customer base is musical amateurs.
Wow... 
HP Z220 Workstation I7 3770, 8 GB RAM, Windows 10, Sonar Platinum, RME Multiface II via PCIe, JBL 4326 w/sub, AvanTone MixCubes
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stevec
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Re:WHY doesn't Cakewalk care about the staff view?
2011/12/28 19:09:23
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I'll believe it when I see it. I think PT10 has a demo if you're interested. Or, here's an old PT8 video: http://www.avid.com/US/avid-tv/ProTools8ScoreYourMusic/shadowbox Personally, PT10 looks nicer than any previous version but is way out my price range. And I'm not sure if its PRV compares to SONAR even at this point...
SteveC https://soundcloud.com/steve-cocchi http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=39163 SONAR Platinum x64, Intel Q9300 (2.5Ghz), Asus P5N-D, Win7 x64 SP1, 8GB RAM, 1TB internal + ESATA + USB Backup HDDs, ATI Radeon HD5450 1GB RAM + dual ViewSonic VA2431wm Monitors; Focusrite 18i6 (ASIO); Komplete 9, Melodyne Studio 4, Ozone 7 Advanced, Rapture Pro, GPO5, Valhalla Plate, MJUC comp, MDynamic EQ, lots of other freebie VST plugins, synths and Kontakt libraries
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cornieleous
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Re:WHY doesn't Cakewalk care about the staff view?
2011/12/28 19:16:59
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2. Cakewalk is primarily interested in marketing to illiterate musicians who don't read or write music and who simply don't know what they don't know about the power of notation in realizing complexity, subtlety and structural development. Perhaps Cakewalk's primary customer base is musical amateurs.
3. Cakewalk is so busy creating yet another EQ, compressor, softsynth, etc. (My God, how many compressors and EQs does one need to create great recordings?) that they simply neglect the core language of music sequencing because they're too busy concocting more and more features, bloating the program rather than focus on repairing what is already implemented. Notation allows a composer to create musical detail in a way that is unmatched by any other method, computer or no computer. I sympathize with your frustration. However, your point #2 is showing how much YOU don't know that you don't know about music by thinking that those who use notation are somehow special or closer to the core of music than those who don't. All you have to do is open your ears - unless you are one of these blinded people who are attached to a single genre or method whenever music is involved. Some of the best music ever written is simple, not subtle, and lacks structural development - so your pedestal appears to be falling over here. However, as much as I disagree with your statement in #2, I agree partially with your #3. Cakewalk is focusing on a lot of effects and add ons and not improving the core of the application much at all. I also resent heavily that they have essentially dumbed down the interface by removing customizations and at-reach controls throughout the program in favor of shine and sparkle. Too much marketing hype the last couple versions for very little gain and some serious steps backward. And they WILL sell some of this back to us piece by piece to make money. So what can you or I do about it? I encourage you to look at other applications, especially if notation is your thing. No DAW will ever match Finale or Sibelius for notation, and it would be silly for any of them to try to pack that level of notation software into their applications when like it or not, there is a smaller market for it than the at large group of hobby, semi pro and pro musicians and producers. I too am realizing that many of the powerful features I miss or wanted added to Sonar will never be recognized by the larger group and Cakewalk will not survive unless they cater to that larger group - even if this means ruining the interface and progress we had up until 8.5 in the eyes of many of us. I try to be careful however to keep my criticisms to the software, and not start panning other musicians or their needs. And I too no longer have any issue trying out every DAW under the sun in hopes of finding a tool that feels right to me like Cakewalk did from PA9 to Sonar 8.5.
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gtgarner
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Re:WHY doesn't Cakewalk care about the staff view?
2011/12/28 19:44:10
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vintagevibe
gtgarner
ProTools Score Editor? Come on. You've got to be kidding. There is nothing decent about it.
It has always been the rule of thumb that everyone purchase an external editor for Sonar.
1. Create your scores in Sonar (MIDI)
2. copy your tracks to a ReWire instrument.
3. export to Sibelius.
THats always been the way to go.
Cakewalk - please don't provide Sonar processing resources to the Staff View. Sonar is a DAW not an editor.
Hmmm, I can't remember what DAW stands for........?
Prootools, Cuebase and Logic all have notation tools that are robust enough to compose in a modern DAW. Sonar does not. If you do not understand the difference between what is need in a DAW and what Sibelius and Finale do you need to do some searches. There probably hundreds of pages that explain it. Rewire is not a solution. Especially the way you described it. The fact that you don't know what other DAWs even have notation indicates that you don't use and are ignorant of the need for notation. The fact that you request that Cakewalk cease to develope things that you personally don't use leads one to conclude that you're the type of person that feels as long as your personal needs are met everyone else can go to h*ll.
Wow, Thats amazing that it is suggested that I'm not familiar with PT in that my studio downtown Chicago is sponsored on the Digidesign ICON Powered Studios Website. I own 3 ICONs. http://www.digidesign.com/xtras/iconStudios.cfm Cakewalk should make Daws and Sibelius should be made by Avid. I would rather have 2 companies hard at work on what they do best than to have some kind of ONE-Stop-Shop. As a matter of fact, my ICON HD crashed and could not run PT10 because of something that had to do with the notation section. Can you imagine that. Stop an ICON due to a notation issue? Are you kidding? I rewire IVORY all of the time. As a matter of fact if anyone is ever in Chicago and have a few min they can come to my studio and watch. Sonar is far more useful in terms of workflow as far as I am concerned. Its a musicians DAW. PT is studio/engineers DAW. Please....never state that I would ever say that anyone should go to heck. I don't curse.
post edited by gtgarner - 2011/12/28 19:51:44
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konradh
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Re:WHY doesn't Cakewalk care about the staff view?
2011/12/28 19:46:23
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I don't think Cakewalk is evil or that musicians who don't use notation are dumb. I do use staff view more than any other view for creating music, however, and I wish Cakewalk would fix a few of the quirks. Something as simple as being able to select the note duration and drop it on the staff would be a great improvement. Years ago I documented a number of issues with the staff view to Cakewalk, and the responder said, in essence, that I must have a flawed installation and should send him a video demonstrating the problems. I did not have the time or means to do that, but, as I see on this forum, it was neither my installation nor my imagination. Something to keep in mind: ProTools was created as a digital replacement for the tape machine in a studio. Cakewalk was created for composing and sequencing. My point is that Cakewalk should stay ahead in its composing/creating facilities as it continues to improve its audio capture and edit functions. Few large existing facilities will scrap their hardware investment in ProTools to go to Sonar, but there is an entire generation of project studio producers who are making records now and will continue to be the biggest force in the music industry for many years. I would love to have the money to record at Abbey Road, but as music sales decline, that will cease to be the primary method of recording songs.
post edited by konradh - 2011/12/28 19:54:41
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relpomiraculous
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Re:WHY doesn't Cakewalk care about the staff view?
2011/12/28 21:01:13
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Abelton Live and Maschine don't have staff views at all. You don't see me complaining about that. Sonar's staff view is more than adequate for my needs...and yours. You are lucky to have anything at all. Now get out your wallets and pay up for all the work Cakewalk does for you.
Sonar X2 64 bit - Win 7 Pro 64 bit - Intel Core i7 870 - 8 gigs of ram - HP 3130 desktop
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jsg
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Re:WHY doesn't Cakewalk care about the staff view?
2011/12/28 22:12:30
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To those who took insult to the term illiterate, no insult was intended or implied. Illiterate is an objective term meaning "doesn't read or write". That's all it means. It makes no judgment on either the worth of the person or the sincerity of their efforts. I know some great songwriters who were illiterate musicians . I don't know, however, of any great composers of long-form instrumental music who were illiterate. I use the word "illiterate" and someone thinks that is offensive, but then someone implies I am an A-hole for using the word! I suppose I could feel insulted if I choose to feel that way, but his lack of vocabulary is not my problem. Sometimes it's wise to look into one's own psychology when you feel insulted or defensive about someone else's words, it often provides an important insight into your own fear and pride. For the poster who mentioned how many records Ray Charles sold, this to me is irrelevant. The popularity of a particular artist in a consumer-driven capitalistic semi-educated society is not a true indicator of much, certainly not musical quality. And I like Ray Charles' music. To the person who suggested that Sibelius and Finale are the answer, I've been using notation program since 1987, starting with the first, Leland Smith's (from Stanford) SCORE. I've used Sibelius for over 10 years. But a notation program is for publishing-quality notation, not for MIDI inputting, sequencing and editing. Why Sonar won't fix the longstanding issues with it is my original question, I am not asking for any new features, just to fix what they put there in the first place. Most people who use that view know what I am referring to. And for the poster who said there is little difference between an amateur and a pro, if he's talking merely about how much money one makes, he may or may not be correct, but if he's talking about the difference between spending 40 hours a week at something versus an hour or so a few nights a week, he's wrong. The pro simply spends far more time at his craft and anyone who knows a lot about music composition understands that the amount of time one spends at something is everything. Every creator from Thomas Edison to Mozart to chess-masters to virtuoso musicians have said as much. Amateurs may be very talented, but they simply do not spend the necessary time to achieve what a pro can achieve. If the amateur does spent as much time, the situation can change for him/her. It's about time, not just talent. JG www.jerrygerber.com
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backwoods
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Re:WHY doesn't Cakewalk care about the staff view?
2011/12/28 22:24:05
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"If the amateur does spent as much time, the situation can change for him/her. It's about time, not just talent. "
Not true, it takes th ability to write a popular song. Maybe time listening to songs on radio to understand fundamentals counts but who knows.
I don't know that you're an A-Hole JG but you talk it up a bit don't you think?
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riojazz
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Re:WHY doesn't Cakewalk care about the staff view?
2011/12/28 22:37:35
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My memory of this issue is that Cakewalk did provide some comments a few years back to the effect that they understood what needed to be fixed in the staff view and they shared the desire to have it done for those of us who do use the staff view. The problem they mentioned was something about quite old code requiring a complete rewrite. They said only that it would not be a priority for the next version. This led some of us to hope that it might be addressed in a future version, but to my knowledge, Cakewalk never promised that. Here are two threads to read from 2009. They also reference a reply from a Cakewalk staffer (shown below) that was deleted, but that was quoted in several posts. For the most part, those threads were respectful of the request for an improved staff view, and stayed on topic. http://forum.cakewalk.com...igh=staff+view&mpage=1 http://forum.cakewalk.com...0&mpage=1&key=#1733049 ORIGINAL: Alex Westner [Cakewalk] The good news is that we, in Cakewalk Product Development, know what we need to do, and we have ideas and designs on just how to git 'er done. The bad news is that it's still a ton of work that I haven't been able to schedule into a product cycle. [EDITED with a different browser because Firefox will not put in line breaks.]
post edited by riojazz - 2011/12/28 23:19:42
Software: Cakewalk by Bandlab; Adobe Audition; Band-in-A-Box audiophile; Izotope Ozone; Encore; Melodyne; Win 10 Pro, 64-bit. Hardware: Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 2nd; Roland Integra-7; TCE Finalizer; Presonus Central Station, Behringer X-Touch. Home built i7 with 16 GB RAM, SSDs.
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trimph1
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Re:WHY doesn't Cakewalk care about the staff view?
2011/12/28 23:47:10
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backwoods
"If the amateur does spent as much time, the situation can change for him/her. It's about time, not just talent. "
Not true, it takes th ability to write a popular song. Maybe time listening to songs on radio to understand fundamentals counts but who knows.
I don't know that you're an A-Hole JG but you talk it up a bit don't you think?
Exsqueeze me? I don't know whether it takes either/or time/talent...I always thought it took BOTH. Besides which, who is to say anything about whether I am composing music to be popular or not? Who will be the master subject who will define whether I am a 'serious', or 'real', musician here? 
The space you have will always be exceeded in direct proportion to the amount of stuff you have...Thornton's Postulate. Bushpianos
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jsg
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Re:WHY doesn't Cakewalk care about the staff view?
2011/12/28 23:48:33
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backwoods
"If the amateur does spent as much time, the situation can change for him/her. It's about time, not just talent. "
Not true, it takes th ability to write a popular song. Maybe time listening to songs on radio to understand fundamentals counts but who knows.
I don't know that you're an A-Hole JG but you talk it up a bit don't you think?
Once again, my words misunderstood. Let me say it again clearly for you: Ability and talent are assumed. Without those, all the practice, time, focus and energy spent is useless. I thought that was clear in my statement. Now, try writing a symphony or an opera or a ballet with no studying, no analyzing of scores, no training of playing an instrument. Even a pop songwriter, besides having the talent, must listen to a lot of music. Ability and talent are something one is born with, or not. Skill and craft is something acquired through study, practice and lots of repetition. Got it? No, I know the value of being quiet and I know the value of saying what I want to say. I speak my mind as truthfully as I can, and I arrive at my opinions through much thought and experience. If you cannot handle that, who's issue is that? JG www.jerrygerber.com
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sethmopod
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Re:WHY doesn't Cakewalk care about the staff view?
2011/12/29 00:31:16
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To those who say if you want a decent staff view - use Finale, you probably haven't spent much time with Finale. I write extensively for school based music programs and use Finale to generate all of the parts and scores for those compositions. I use Sonar to do all my sequencing and composing. Finale is a great score & part editor. It is an absolutely useless sequencer. Sonar is a reasonably good sequencer, and a lousy score/part editor.
To get things working right in Sonar, I have to switch back and forth from Score view to PRV view a lot. I wish more functions were available in the Score view so I wouldn't have to switch as much. That said - the X1 multidock has made all the switching a little easier.
Another way that Sonar is a great tool is that once my sequencing is done, I can generate audio demos from Sonar that are far superior to what I can get out of Finale. Also - for strings only pieces (which are the instruments I play) - I can record actual instrument parts right along with my initial sequences so that I end up with a live recording of a piece that can then be given to the ensembles who are using it and then can also be used for promotion to generate sales to new groups.
Finale works much better IMO when you use it alongside a program like Sonar.
Regards,
Seth
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Jimbo 88
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Re:WHY doesn't Cakewalk care about the staff view?
2011/12/29 01:07:16
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This argument over staff being "illiterate" or not... or Sonar is a DAW and has to do with audio is silly. Sonar did start as a music, midi sequencing application.
Having said that, It is a hinderance sequencing certain types of music and not being able to use a score. It is like playing a chess game and not seeing the whole chess board.
I would hope Cake wants to enhance the staff view. It would open Sonar to more markets. It sure would make my life easier.
The MusicXML file thing does not seem to help as much as I thought it would.
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:WHY doesn't Cakewalk care about the staff view?
2011/12/29 03:39:45
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And for the poster who said there is little difference between an amateur and a pro, if he's talking merely about how much money one makes, he may or may not be correct, but if he's talking about the difference between spending 40 hours a week at something versus an hour or so a few nights a week, he's wrong. The pro simply spends far more time at his craft and anyone who knows a lot about music composition understands that the amount of time one spends at something is everything.
That was me and I would say it's the other way round. I class myself as an amateur, I do make a little money by doing work for others but mostly it's for the love/enjoyment of it. Fortunately I make enough money for not a huge time investment in other ways. I do however spend a lot longer than "an hour or so a few nights a week" averaging around 30 and frequently more than 40 per week, so if time in the studio is the yardstick I'm a full blown 'pro' who's making little ££ from it. A personal choice BTW. A pro to me is someone who is making their living from it, which I don't although I may jump that way one day. It is also as much an attitude to whichever field they are 'pro' in and if I had the attitude of some of the music 'pros' here in my field I'd have failed long ago. I also think some confuse 'pro' with prima donna. Others seem to think that pro is some sort of measure of ability/technical skill/expertise which may be true in some cases but certainly isn't the 'rule' - in any field, never mind music which let's face it is also a big 'hobby' industry. You've only got to read some of the woes of some of the 'pros' on here to realise that much of the above is true. Anyway back on topic. Even though I don't use the staff view, if it's there it should work and IIRC correctly the OP was one who commented on the view not following the clicked on track, which let's face it is pretty basic stuff that should work. (Did you ever try the work round I suggested BTW?) I'm all for fixing parts of the program that are meant to work whether I use them or not so FWIW you have my support in that, if not in your methods of trying to achieve that.
post edited by FastBikerBoy - 2011/12/29 05:38:55
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Zonno
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Re:WHY doesn't Cakewalk care about the staff view?
2011/12/29 05:21:37
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The way I see it, there are two ways in which you can use the staff view: - As a means to input and edit notes, like you can do with the PRV and the Step Sequencer. If you write for, for example, a horn section or a trumpet section, the staff view may be more suitable. Depends on what you are used to, of course.
- Printing sheet music. Some would say that is not the main concern of a DAW. But if you compose a score that is to be played by live musicians this is crucial.
For both tasks the staff view is not perfect. Improvements are welcome.
post edited by Zonno - 2011/12/29 10:14:11
Cakewalk, Reason 10, KOMPLETE 11, BIAB 2018, Roland OctaCapture, Finale 26, PCR-300, HP ZBook, Guitars __________________ Any text above is a random collection of characters which bear no meaning whatsoever. The reader will be held liable for any damage due to interpretation of these characters.
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vintagevibe
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Re:WHY doesn't Cakewalk care about the staff view?
2011/12/29 09:55:39
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SteveGriffiths
vintagevibe
relpomiraculous
Audio files do not show up in the Staff View. The Staff View is for midi users, so they can print out their scores if they want to. Beyond that, any serious composer owns a dedicated program for notation like Finale. Obviously the OP is not that serious - or has no money.
This is an ignorant statement. I have Sibelius but I need notation on par with all the other major DAWs so I can COMPOSE INSIDE SONAR!
I'm sure the folks at Cakewalk will jump right on that right away, inspired as they must surely be by the gargantuan size of your heartfelt plea. Of course, if the staff view used the same scale you would need a 96" monitor for a 2 verse ditty.
Cheers... Grif
That's not for Cakewalk. It's for people who can't seem to understand the concept.
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vintagevibe
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Re:WHY doesn't Cakewalk care about the staff view?
2011/12/29 10:22:09
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gtgarner
vintagevibe
gtgarner
ProTools Score Editor? Come on. You've got to be kidding. There is nothing decent about it.
It has always been the rule of thumb that everyone purchase an external editor for Sonar.
1. Create your scores in Sonar (MIDI)
2. copy your tracks to a ReWire instrument.
3. export to Sibelius.
THats always been the way to go.
Cakewalk - please don't provide Sonar processing resources to the Staff View. Sonar is a DAW not an editor.
Hmmm, I can't remember what DAW stands for........?
Prootools, Cuebase and Logic all have notation tools that are robust enough to compose in a modern DAW. Sonar does not. If you do not understand the difference between what is need in a DAW and what Sibelius and Finale do you need to do some searches. There probably hundreds of pages that explain it. Rewire is not a solution. Especially the way you described it. The fact that you don't know what other DAWs even have notation indicates that you don't use and are ignorant of the need for notation. The fact that you request that Cakewalk cease to develope things that you personally don't use leads one to conclude that you're the type of person that feels as long as your personal needs are met everyone else can go to h*ll.
Wow, Thats amazing that it is suggested that I'm not familiar with PT in that my studio downtown Chicago is sponsored on the Digidesign ICON Powered Studios Website. I own 3 ICONs. http://www.digidesign.com/xtras/iconStudios.cfm
Cakewalk should make Daws and Sibelius should be made by Avid. I would rather have 2 companies hard at work on what they do best than to have some kind of ONE-Stop-Shop.
As a matter of fact, my ICON HD crashed and could not run PT10 because of something that had to do with the notation section. Can you imagine that. Stop an ICON due to a notation issue? Are you kidding?
I rewire IVORY all of the time. As a matter of fact if anyone is ever in Chicago and have a few min they can come to my studio and watch.
Sonar is far more useful in terms of workflow as far as I am concerned. Its a musicians DAW. PT is studio/engineers DAW.
Please....never state that I would ever say that anyone should go to heck. I don't curse.
Sibelius is made by Avid and a subset of Sibelius is in Protools. People need notation inside a DAW to compose with. You can't do voice leading in the PRV. Why do you lobby against what others need? You may no curse but that is the attituce you display. Perhaps you should start cursing. It would be more honest.
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gtgarner
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Re:WHY doesn't Cakewalk care about the staff view?
2011/12/29 10:45:11
(permalink)
vintagevibe
gtgarner
vintagevibe
gtgarner
ProTools Score Editor? Come on. You've got to be kidding. There is nothing decent about it.
It has always been the rule of thumb that everyone purchase an external editor for Sonar.
1. Create your scores in Sonar (MIDI)
2. copy your tracks to a ReWire instrument.
3. export to Sibelius.
THats always been the way to go.
Cakewalk - please don't provide Sonar processing resources to the Staff View. Sonar is a DAW not an editor.
Hmmm, I can't remember what DAW stands for........?
Prootools, Cuebase and Logic all have notation tools that are robust enough to compose in a modern DAW. Sonar does not. If you do not understand the difference between what is need in a DAW and what Sibelius and Finale do you need to do some searches. There probably hundreds of pages that explain it. Rewire is not a solution. Especially the way you described it. The fact that you don't know what other DAWs even have notation indicates that you don't use and are ignorant of the need for notation. The fact that you request that Cakewalk cease to develope things that you personally don't use leads one to conclude that you're the type of person that feels as long as your personal needs are met everyone else can go to h*ll.
Wow, Thats amazing that it is suggested that I'm not familiar with PT in that my studio downtown Chicago is sponsored on the Digidesign ICON Powered Studios Website. I own 3 ICONs. http://www.digidesign.com/xtras/iconStudios.cfm
Cakewalk should make Daws and Sibelius should be made by Avid. I would rather have 2 companies hard at work on what they do best than to have some kind of ONE-Stop-Shop.
As a matter of fact, my ICON HD crashed and could not run PT10 because of something that had to do with the notation section. Can you imagine that. Stop an ICON due to a notation issue? Are you kidding?
I rewire IVORY all of the time. As a matter of fact if anyone is ever in Chicago and have a few min they can come to my studio and watch.
Sonar is far more useful in terms of workflow as far as I am concerned. Its a musicians DAW. PT is studio/engineers DAW.
Please....never state that I would ever say that anyone should go to heck. I don't curse.
Sibelius is made by Avid and a subset of Sibelius is in Protools. People need notation inside a DAW to compose with. You can't do voice leading in the PRV. Why do you lobby against what others need? You may no curse but that is the attituce you display. Perhaps you should start cursing. It would be more honest.
Why do I lobby against what others need? I'm not. I believe that others needed a DAW. Tats why they purchased Sonar. They wanted a DAW. Who purchased sonar in order to print notation? Anyone? If others want an editor - buy an editor. Oh wait - I see. They want a FREE editor. Not only a Free editor, but a fabulously free editor. I get it. A fabulously free editor that doesn't push up the price of Sonar. Gotcha. Cakewalk please get movin on that and don't charge us anything. I wouldn't mind that.
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Geoffrey
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Re:WHY doesn't Cakewalk care about the staff view?
2011/12/29 10:59:32
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I agree with the poster that CW has likely given thought to the matter and decided to deploy its limited resources elsewhere. That said, there are compromises between leaving notation as-is and a full blown revision. For example, fix the triplet problem. Make it possible to view a single staff one on top of the other (down the page), rather than merely scrolling. As I understand it, rewire has just become 64 bit, and sonar will have to be fixed to accept 64 bit rewire. I don't know whether sibelius will need further tweaks. It is currently 64 bit but I don't know whether the rewire implementation will require anything special. Anybody have a better grasp of this?
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Geoffrey
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Re:WHY doesn't Cakewalk care about the staff view?
2011/12/29 11:03:26
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Do you have any idea whether the xml problem is on the sonar export side or the notion import side? Because I use sibelius, which imports and exports xml.
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gtgarner
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Re:WHY doesn't Cakewalk care about the staff view?
2011/12/29 11:10:25
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Geoffrey
Do you have any idea whether the xml problem is on the sonar export side or the notion import side? Because I use sibelius, which imports and exports xml.
I'm currently running both Sonar 64bit and Sibelius and I've not experienced an issue with XML. I don't use XML much, however let me try it right now. One moment.
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pwal
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Re:WHY doesn't Cakewalk care about the staff view?
2011/12/29 11:15:26
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i have no employees, why do i need a staff view??
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gtgarner
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Re:WHY doesn't Cakewalk care about the staff view?
2011/12/29 11:36:45
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gtgarner
Geoffrey
Do you have any idea whether the xml problem is on the sonar export side or the notion import side? Because I use sibelius, which imports and exports xml.
I'm currently running both Sonar 64bit and Sibelius and I've not experienced an issue with XML. I don't use XML much, however let me try it right now. One moment.
I just exported MusicXML 64Bit out of Sonar. I didn't have a problem at all openening the track in Notion nor Sibelius. It worked just fine.
post edited by gtgarner - 2011/12/29 12:35:47
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dubdisciple
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Re:WHY doesn't Cakewalk care about the staff view?
2011/12/29 12:16:48
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" I use the word "illiterate" and someone thinks that is offensive, but then someone implies I am an A-hole for using the word! I suppose I could feel insulted if I choose to feel that way, but his lack of vocabulary is not my problem." I correct myself..You come off as a snobby, assuming a-hole. I did not use that term because I felt personally offended. I happen to read and write music just fine. I also happen to be a former state oratorical champion with a more than adequate vocabulary. I just happened to think a-hole was the appropriate term for a guy who chooses to use insulting assumptions to address grievances. I also did not use the term because of one word you said. it was the tone of your entire post. You assume Cakewalk does not care when it may simply be a matter of them analyzing their product and choosing a certain path. There are plenty of things I wish Cakewalk had and from time to time, I suggest them along with many other people. If those features are added, hooray. If not, I find myself thankful for the features it does has. The fact is, whether you intended your post to come off as insulting, it did come off just that way. Instead of being a man and apologizing for being a douche, you come back with more condescending remarks as if the average person is not aware of what illiterate means. By implying that the people who thought you were being insulting did not understand the definition of your terms, you are repeating the behavior that was insulting to begin with You have heard from several people in this post who are quite literate but are simply not as concerned as you are with this particular issue. You would rather address each person who called you out instead of pull your panties out of the obvious bunch they appear to be in.
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dubdisciple
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Re:WHY doesn't Cakewalk care about the staff view?
2011/12/29 12:36:51
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On second thought, I apologize for my insulting language, which I freely admit was intended to be just such. I don't know you. You might actually be a nice guy and it is unfair of me to pigeonhole you based off a rant made out of obvious frustration we all feel at times and your subsequent defense of that post. Words on a screen can often be taken in a way we did not intend them. By insulting you, I am joining in doing what you come off as doing and that is certainly no better I hope that in the future you will be more careful about how you voice your frustration and I will try to do the same when responding. Have a great day.
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