g_randybrown
Max Output Level: -40 dBFS
- Total Posts : 3522
- Joined: 2003/12/24 11:30:04
- Location: Las Cruces, NM, USA
- Status: offline
Re:WHY doesn't Cakewalk care about the staff view?
2011/12/29 14:25:26
(permalink)
Why do I lobby against what others need? I'm not. I believe that others needed a DAW. Tats why they purchased Sonar. They wanted a DAW. Who purchased sonar in order to print notation? Anyone? If others want an editor - buy an editor. Oh wait - I see. They want a FREE editor. Not only a Free editor, but a fabulously free editor. I get it. A fabulously free editor that doesn't push up the price of Sonar. Gotcha. Cakewalk please get movin on that and don't charge us anything. I wouldn't mind that.
Wow man, did you not read any of the other posts?
They just want the stuff that used to work in staff view to work again!
G. Randy Brown Windows 10, 64 bit, PlatinumIntel Core i7-3770S Asus P8Z77-V LK mobo 4X8GB Corsair XMS3 memory 500 GB Crucial BX100 SSD (OS)two WD Black 1 TB HDDSAPPHIRE DUAL-X 100314-4L Radeon HD 6970 2GB 256-Bit GDDR5 Presonus AudioBox 22VSLyoutube.com/crystalclearnm
|
konradh
Max Output Level: -42 dBFS
- Total Posts : 3325
- Joined: 2006/01/16 16:07:06
- Status: offline
Re:WHY doesn't Cakewalk care about the staff view?
2011/12/29 14:49:31
(permalink)
I can't believe the emotion on this topic, but here are a couple of thoughts: 1-While I do not use Sonar as a notation program—I have Finale and Sibelius—it is sometimes convenient to print a quick piece of music out for a singer or player without having to export to a notation program, tweak the score, etc. Although I use staff view mainly for composing (e.g., string parts), the print function is important. 2-One of the biggest issues for me is the failure to handle enharmonics. First, Sonar almost always guesses enharmonics wrong (that is, displays a Bb when an A# would be appropriate, etc.). I can live with that and it is a matter of artistic judgment sometimes. What I can't live with is that there is no global way to fix all the wrong notes. You THINK you are changing all the B#3s to C4s, but it doesn't work. You have to fix these one by one, and any edit will set a fixed note back to its earlier and incorrect version. This matters because it is very hard to read sheet music if the enharmonics are messed up.
|
Zonno
Max Output Level: -71 dBFS
- Total Posts : 999
- Joined: 2007/04/11 16:37:33
- Location: The Netherlands
- Status: offline
Re:WHY doesn't Cakewalk care about the staff view?
2011/12/29 14:51:20
(permalink)
gtgarner
vintagevibe
gtgarner
vintagevibe
gtgarner
ProTools Score Editor? Come on. You've got to be kidding. There is nothing decent about it.
It has always been the rule of thumb that everyone purchase an external editor for Sonar.
1. Create your scores in Sonar (MIDI)
2. copy your tracks to a ReWire instrument.
3. export to Sibelius.
THats always been the way to go.
Cakewalk - please don't provide Sonar processing resources to the Staff View. Sonar is a DAW not an editor.
Hmmm, I can't remember what DAW stands for........?
Prootools, Cuebase and Logic all have notation tools that are robust enough to compose in a modern DAW. Sonar does not. If you do not understand the difference between what is need in a DAW and what Sibelius and Finale do you need to do some searches. There probably hundreds of pages that explain it. Rewire is not a solution. Especially the way you described it. The fact that you don't know what other DAWs even have notation indicates that you don't use and are ignorant of the need for notation. The fact that you request that Cakewalk cease to develope things that you personally don't use leads one to conclude that you're the type of person that feels as long as your personal needs are met everyone else can go to h*ll.
Wow, Thats amazing that it is suggested that I'm not familiar with PT in that my studio downtown Chicago is sponsored on the Digidesign ICON Powered Studios Website. I own 3 ICONs. http://www.digidesign.com/xtras/iconStudios.cfm
Cakewalk should make Daws and Sibelius should be made by Avid. I would rather have 2 companies hard at work on what they do best than to have some kind of ONE-Stop-Shop.
As a matter of fact, my ICON HD crashed and could not run PT10 because of something that had to do with the notation section. Can you imagine that. Stop an ICON due to a notation issue? Are you kidding?
I rewire IVORY all of the time. As a matter of fact if anyone is ever in Chicago and have a few min they can come to my studio and watch.
Sonar is far more useful in terms of workflow as far as I am concerned. Its a musicians DAW. PT is studio/engineers DAW.
Please....never state that I would ever say that anyone should go to heck. I don't curse.
Sibelius is made by Avid and a subset of Sibelius is in Protools. People need notation inside a DAW to compose with. You can't do voice leading in the PRV. Why do you lobby against what others need? You may no curse but that is the attituce you display. Perhaps you should start cursing. It would be more honest.
Why do I lobby against what others need? I'm not.
I believe that others needed a DAW. Tats why they purchased Sonar. They wanted a DAW. Who purchased sonar in order to print notation? Anyone?
If others want an editor - buy an editor. Oh wait - I see. They want a FREE editor. Not only a Free editor, but a fabulously free editor. I get it.
A fabulously free editor that doesn't push up the price of Sonar. Gotcha.
Cakewalk please get movin on that and don't charge us anything. I wouldn't mind that.
The staff view is not only for printing notation. It is used, like the PRV and the Step Sequencer, to input and edit notes. Why have a good PRV and a bad Staff View? Why disappoint people that rather use the Staff View than the PRV?
Cakewalk, Reason 10, KOMPLETE 11, BIAB 2018, Roland OctaCapture, Finale 26, PCR-300, HP ZBook, Guitars __________________ Any text above is a random collection of characters which bear no meaning whatsoever. The reader will be held liable for any damage due to interpretation of these characters.
|
trimph1
Max Output Level: -12 dBFS
- Total Posts : 6348
- Joined: 2010/09/07 19:20:06
- Location: London ON
- Status: offline
Re:WHY doesn't Cakewalk care about the staff view?
2011/12/29 14:56:14
(permalink)
uummmmm...did staff view work before? like, say, in an older version?
The space you have will always be exceeded in direct proportion to the amount of stuff you have...Thornton's Postulate. Bushpianos
|
pianodano
Max Output Level: -67 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1160
- Joined: 2004/01/11 18:54:38
- Location: Va Beach Virginia
- Status: offline
Re:WHY doesn't Cakewalk care about the staff view?
2011/12/29 15:00:17
(permalink)
Best, Danny Core I7, win XP pro, 3 gig ram, 3 drives- Lynx Aurora firewire- Roll around 27 inch monitor, 42 inch console monitor- Motif xs controller - Networked P4's and FX Teleport for samples- Muse Receptor VIA Uniwire for samples and plugs- UAD QUAD Neve - UAD 1- Sonar X1 but favor 8.5 GUI - Toft ATB 32 - Vintage hardware - Tascam MS-16 synched via Timeline Microlynx -Toft ATB32 console
|
jsg
Max Output Level: -69 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1079
- Joined: 2003/11/20 04:54:18
- Location: San Francisco, California
- Status: offline
Re:WHY doesn't Cakewalk care about the staff view?
2011/12/29 15:28:45
(permalink)
pwal
i have no employees, why do i need a staff view??
Well, even with no employees, you're still vulnerable to getting a staff infection. Improving the staff view could inoculate you from that possibility... ;>) JG www.jerrygerber.com
|
jsg
Max Output Level: -69 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1079
- Joined: 2003/11/20 04:54:18
- Location: San Francisco, California
- Status: offline
Re:WHY doesn't Cakewalk care about the staff view?
2011/12/29 15:39:51
(permalink)
The staff view is not only for printing notation.
It is used, like the PRV and the Step Sequencer, to input and edit notes.
Why have a good PRV and a bad Staff View?
Why disappoint people that rather use the Staff View than the PRV?
EXACTLY, this above says it as clearly and succinctly as it can be said. What IS the problem with putting some resources into improving the staff view? Cakewalk has done it with the PRV view, which is essentially also a MIDI inputting tool for those who don't want to use the staff view or the event list. From the number of people who've responded in kind to this topic, it would bring more satisfaction to their customers, which in turn would create more loyalty to the company/product, and we end up with a win-win situation. For those who don't use or care about the staff view, it will have no impact on their production process. It will also guarantee that Sonar is keeping up with the other top DAWs. JG www.jerrygerber.com
|
jsg
Max Output Level: -69 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1079
- Joined: 2003/11/20 04:54:18
- Location: San Francisco, California
- Status: offline
Re:WHY doesn't Cakewalk care about the staff view?
2011/12/29 15:49:47
(permalink)
trimph1
uummmmm...did staff view work before? like, say, in an older version?
Yep. In version 7, which is what I am still using on a 64-bit machine (in 64-bit mode) the track pane to the right of the staves always reflects the active track, in other words, when you click on any particular track, that track becomes the one you hear when you play a MIDI keyboard. This feature was either removed or lost via programming bugs. The problem with the display of tied or dotted triplets has never worked correctly, the changing of enharmonic equivalents (say, changing a b-flat to an a-sharp) has always been a bit cumbersome, and in X1 I've also noticed, at least on the three machines I tested it on, with different monitors and graphics cards, that the dot (of dotted notes) is really hard to read when the staves are small, which was not the case with earlier versions. If Cakewalk did a survey, for that matter if any software company did a survey, and asked the question, which is more important to you, 1) adding new features, or 2) making the program, as it is, as stable and bug-free as possible, I bet most people would say the latter. It seems that new features (which are basically a good thing at the right point in development) should be added after all the ones already there work correctly. JG www.jerrygerber.com
|
jsg
Max Output Level: -69 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1079
- Joined: 2003/11/20 04:54:18
- Location: San Francisco, California
- Status: offline
Re:WHY doesn't Cakewalk care about the staff view?
2011/12/29 16:12:14
(permalink)
dubdisciple
On second thought, I apologize for my insulting language, which I freely admit was intended to be just such. I don't know you. You might actually be a nice guy and it is unfair of me to pigeonhole you based off a rant made out of obvious frustration we all feel at times and your subsequent defense of that post. Words on a screen can often be taken in a way we did not intend them. By insulting you, I am joining in doing what you come off as doing and that is certainly no better I hope that in the future you will be more careful about how you voice your frustration and I will try to do the same when responding. Have a great day.
Don't give it a second thought. Apology gratefully accepted, thanks. I've come to understand every quality I despise in others is only despised because I have that exact same quality in myself. In that sense we are all the same. When someone demonstrates a really hateful quality or behavior that I don't have, or that I've struggled with and overcome, I feel either compassion, pity or disgust. And I too think I should have made my original post softer, but say the same thing without the harshness. We humans are very complex creatures. Happy New Year! JG www.jerrygerber.com
|
trimph1
Max Output Level: -12 dBFS
- Total Posts : 6348
- Joined: 2010/09/07 19:20:06
- Location: London ON
- Status: offline
Re:WHY doesn't Cakewalk care about the staff view?
2011/12/29 16:27:29
(permalink)
jsg
trimph1
uummmmm...did staff view work before? like, say, in an older version?
Yep. In version 7, which is what I am still using on a 64-bit machine (in 64-bit mode) the track pane to the right of the staves always reflects the active track, in other words, when you click on any particular track, that track becomes the one you hear when you play a MIDI keyboard. This feature was either removed or lost via programming bugs. The problem with the display of tied or dotted triplets has never worked correctly, the changing of enharmonic equivalents (say, changing a b-flat to an a-sharp) has always been a bit cumbersome, and in X1 I've also noticed, at least on the three machines I tested it on, with different monitors and graphics cards, that the dot (of dotted notes) is really hard to read when the staves are small, which was not the case with earlier versions.
If Cakewalk did a survey, for that matter if any software company did a survey, and asked the question, which is more important to you, 1) adding new features, or 2) making the program, as it is, as stable and bug-free as possible, I bet most people would say the latter. It seems that new features (which are basically a good thing at the right point in development) should be added after all the ones already there work correctly.
JG
www.jerrygerber.com
OK..I seem to recall another thread here that someone explained that there were certain features-such as my favorite-customization-were got rid of because it was 'legacy programming'...if someone knows whether that is the issue could they speak up about this?
The space you have will always be exceeded in direct proportion to the amount of stuff you have...Thornton's Postulate. Bushpianos
|
gtgarner
Max Output Level: -73 dBFS
- Total Posts : 895
- Joined: 2005/07/21 14:36:13
- Status: offline
Re:WHY doesn't Cakewalk care about the staff view?
2011/12/29 17:07:24
(permalink)
pianodano
gtgarner
If others want an editor - buy an editor. Oh wait - I see. They want a FREE editor. Not only a Free editor, but a fabulously free editor. I get it.
A fabulously free editor that doesn't push up the price of Sonar. Gotcha.
Cakewalk please get movin on that and don't charge us anything. I wouldn't mind that.
Who said anything about the price of Sonar? From the best I can tell, only you. I could care less if it was a thousand bucks - if they would just complete what we had / have. I suspect many others feel the same.
Who said anything about the price? I did. Ok, so we want Cakewalk to put a ton of effort and pay people to develop the staff view further than what it is for FREE? Really? Is Cakewalk a "non-for-profit" company? The staff view isn't broken. Its not incomplete. Its what they developed. Period. Its been this way for years and years.
|
gtgarner
Max Output Level: -73 dBFS
- Total Posts : 895
- Joined: 2005/07/21 14:36:13
- Status: offline
Re:WHY doesn't Cakewalk care about the staff view?
2011/12/29 17:10:48
(permalink)
I wish we could take a real poll. Who purchased their DAW because of the Staff View? Who bought Pro-Tools because of the Staff View? Who is non loyal to Cakewalk because of the Staff View? Anyone bored want to read 5 more forum pages about this? http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.aspx?m=1705850
post edited by gtgarner - 2011/12/29 17:33:28
|
lowdown
Max Output Level: -85 dBFS
- Total Posts : 300
- Joined: 2004/04/14 16:07:38
- Location: Essex - UK
- Status: offline
Re:WHY doesn't Cakewalk care about the staff view?
2011/12/29 17:19:46
(permalink)
The staff view is not only for printing notation.
It is used, like the PRV and the Step Sequencer, to input and edit notes.
Why have a good PRV and a bad Staff View?
Why disappoint people that rather use the Staff View than the PRV?
This really...... When writing large Orchestral or Big Band section passages, Half a dozen or so Staves is a lot easier on the eyes, than the PRV. And some of us like to use a combination of PRV and Staff. [For those that are ok with the dots that is] Although i use Sibelius for printing out parts, I don't like arseing around between Sonar & Sibelius for editing and putting tracks together. Staff view in Sonar is just about workable, but miles behind the likes of Cubase/Logic/DP and others when it comes to editing in the staff view. Just my very selfish POV of course. Garry
|
gtgarner
Max Output Level: -73 dBFS
- Total Posts : 895
- Joined: 2005/07/21 14:36:13
- Status: offline
Re:WHY doesn't Cakewalk care about the staff view?
2011/12/29 17:37:31
(permalink)
|
trimph1
Max Output Level: -12 dBFS
- Total Posts : 6348
- Joined: 2010/09/07 19:20:06
- Location: London ON
- Status: offline
Re:WHY doesn't Cakewalk care about the staff view?
2011/12/29 17:58:47
(permalink)
The space you have will always be exceeded in direct proportion to the amount of stuff you have...Thornton's Postulate. Bushpianos
|
gtgarner
Max Output Level: -73 dBFS
- Total Posts : 895
- Joined: 2005/07/21 14:36:13
- Status: offline
Re:WHY doesn't Cakewalk care about the staff view?
2011/12/29 18:07:56
(permalink)
trimph1
gtgarner
Here are 5 More pages for those who are bored:
http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.aspx?m=1743654
5 more
[link=http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.aspx?m=1705850</a></font>]http://forum.cakewalk.com...lt;/a></font>
A total of 13 pages including this thread.
Lastly, Look at independant forums that compare DAWs such as the one I'm including below. To answer the OP's original question, who talks about choosing a DAW based on the staff view? I purchased the best DAW in SONAR. I purchased the best editor in Sebilius. I purchased the best piano vst in Ivory. I purchased the best Drum vst in BFD. I purchaed the best Orchestration vst in VSL.
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/music-computers/348572-pro-tools-vs-logic-vs-sonar-vs-abbleton-vs-cube-base.html
But then, why does it have to be either/or? Why NOT have staff view?
Let me try it another way. Who wants to go to Cakewalk and program/work for free? Then everyone else can have Staff View for free. Does everyone think that Cakewalk is just sitting there wanting to disappoint/punish their users by just holding back a new staff view? NO IT COSTS MONEY. I truly believe that if Cakewalk had the "extra" staff (no pun intended) and resources to put forward to the development of the staff view then they would. I am so happy that they put forth the effort of developing a new work environment in their main view than focusing on the staff view.
|
trimph1
Max Output Level: -12 dBFS
- Total Posts : 6348
- Joined: 2010/09/07 19:20:06
- Location: London ON
- Status: offline
Re:WHY doesn't Cakewalk care about the staff view?
2011/12/29 18:21:19
(permalink)
Geeesh. Where did anyone say they wanted it done for free? Strawman argument here ... and again, why the either/or? This is like the old arguments about keyboard vs mouse now...PRV vs Staff view..when they had both at one time?? 
The space you have will always be exceeded in direct proportion to the amount of stuff you have...Thornton's Postulate. Bushpianos
|
gtgarner
Max Output Level: -73 dBFS
- Total Posts : 895
- Joined: 2005/07/21 14:36:13
- Status: offline
Re:WHY doesn't Cakewalk care about the staff view?
2011/12/29 18:24:12
(permalink)
trimph1
Geeesh.
Where did anyone say they wanted it done for free?
Strawman argument here ... and again, why the either/or? This is like the old arguments about keyboard vs mouse now...PRV vs Staff view..when they had both at one time??
So you wouldn't mind paying for it? Should we suggest to Cakewalk to increase the price of SONAR or suggest making it a pluggin? No Strawman here. Old arguments or not. They are valid questions as it pertains to going forward. I have noticed that no one is answering any of my questions.
|
The Maillard Reaction
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 31918
- Joined: 2004/07/09 20:02:20
- Status: offline
Re:WHY doesn't Cakewalk care about the staff view?
2011/12/29 18:47:13
(permalink)
I told you I wanted to pay more and get more back in January 2011... and I think you told me you didn't like that idea.
:-)
Happy New Year.
best regards,
mike
|
trimph1
Max Output Level: -12 dBFS
- Total Posts : 6348
- Joined: 2010/09/07 19:20:06
- Location: London ON
- Status: offline
Re:WHY doesn't Cakewalk care about the staff view?
2011/12/29 19:02:55
(permalink)
gtgarner
trimph1
Geeesh.
Where did anyone say they wanted it done for free?
Strawman argument here ... and again, why the either/or? This is like the old arguments about keyboard vs mouse now...PRV vs Staff view..when they had both at one time??
So you wouldn't mind paying for it?
Should we suggest to Cakewalk to increase the price of SONAR or suggest making it a pluggin?
No Strawman here. Old arguments or not. They are valid questions as it pertains to going forward.
I have noticed that no one is answering any of my questions.
Of course not!! I don't care if this thing was more than double what it is now...or even 10X more...I'd buy it . Let us put it this way..you be talking to a guy who just spent about $300 on one of these things... http://www.rapidotrains.com/turboamt2.html  You think I'm going to kvetch here? 
post edited by trimph1 - 2011/12/29 19:09:44
The space you have will always be exceeded in direct proportion to the amount of stuff you have...Thornton's Postulate. Bushpianos
|
konradh
Max Output Level: -42 dBFS
- Total Posts : 3325
- Joined: 2006/01/16 16:07:06
- Status: offline
Re:WHY doesn't Cakewalk care about the staff view?
2011/12/29 22:15:16
(permalink)
gtgarner, You asked who bought Sonar for the Staff view. That would not be the reason to buy a DAW, but if Sonar did not have a staff view, I would immediately change to another DAW that did. I could not do my work without it. Anyone who does orchestration, TV or film scores, or musical theater must have this function; and it would be virtually indispensable for someone writing commercials. I also use it to create guitar chords for VIs, to make lead sheets that scroll with the track as a prompter, for visual checks to make sure parts do not conflict (like low piano notes and bass), and dozens of other things. For anyone who grew up reading music, a glance at a staff instantly conveys the musical message and structure without analysis or translation. I catch and fix a lot of mistakes with a just quick look at the staff.
post edited by konradh - 2011/12/29 22:21:20
|
sethmopod
Max Output Level: -87 dBFS
- Total Posts : 189
- Joined: 2007/01/17 00:03:13
- Status: offline
Re:WHY doesn't Cakewalk care about the staff view?
2011/12/29 22:28:05
(permalink)
I pay to upgrade Sonar every couple of versions. The staff view is critical to much of the work that I do. What's free about that? The way it works now is passable for me, but I would appreciate work being put into improving the staff view the same way that it's put into improving other parts of the program.
|
dubdisciple
Max Output Level: -17 dBFS
- Total Posts : 5849
- Joined: 2008/01/29 00:31:46
- Location: Seattle, Wa
- Status: offline
Re:WHY doesn't Cakewalk care about the staff view?
2011/12/29 22:46:13
(permalink)
I'm waiting for the Vulcan Mind Meld View that channels great composers and injects my brains with their skills. Cakewalk needs to get to work on that.
|
keith
Max Output Level: -36.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 3882
- Joined: 2003/12/10 09:49:35
- Status: offline
Re:WHY doesn't Cakewalk care about the staff view?
2011/12/29 22:56:26
(permalink)
gtgarner
Ok, so we want Cakewalk to put a ton of effort and pay people to develop the staff view further than what it is for FREE? Really?
Is Cakewalk a "non-for-profit" company?
Who exactly asked cakewalk to push humpty off of the wall, and start from scratch with a totally rewritten UI layer? I don't remember more than a couple of persons (who I suspect were really Reaper fans anyway) asking for that. Imagine the staff view we could have for the cost of the SONAR X UI rewrite...  The staff view isn't broken.
Not "broken". But it's kinda hard to break something in software terms that doesn't see more than a couple of lines of code changed in a decade.
Its not incomplete.
Compard to steiny, PT, sam pro... i.e., "the competition"... the SV is pretty incomplete. Even a modicum of changes would make it substantially better.
Its what they developed. Period.
Yes. And what they devleoped is insufficient. Just like the old PRV and lack of step editor, etc. were insufficient, until they dropped many a c-note on gussying those up. Speaking of MIDI... why would a "true DAW" need MIDI anyway? Can't we just buy a standalone MIDI sequencer and synch over rewire or the old fashioned way?
Its been this way for years and years.
Exactly. The #1 complaint for those who have been begging for improvements. Er... well said... I think.
|
John T
Max Output Level: -7.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 6783
- Joined: 2006/06/12 10:24:39
- Status: offline
Re:WHY doesn't Cakewalk care about the staff view?
2011/12/30 00:14:25
(permalink)
I believe I can answer the OP's question. Cakewalk's position on this is motivated by a combination of cynicism, laziness and pure evil, mostly stemming from their background as part of the cabal of lizards in human disguise seeking to bring about the apocalypse.
The tragedy of this, of course, is that despite the fact that their goal is unachievable in the face of the righteous, who will not let a day go by without challenging this appalling abuse of power in the most powerful way possible - whining on the internet - still, they seek to do the maximal harm. Even in defeat, their loathing of their customers will not sway them from their diabolical path.
Literate musicians unite! You have nothing to lose other than your colossal egos.
http://johntatlockaudio.com/Self-build PC // 16GB RAM // i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz // Nofan 0dB cooler // ASUS P8-Z77 V Pro motherboard // Intel x-25m SSD System Drive // Seagate RAID Array Audio Drive // Windows 10 64 bit // Sonar Platinum (64 bit) // Sonar VS-700 // M-Audio Keystation Pro 88 // KRK RP-6 Monitors // and a bunch of other stuff
|
John T
Max Output Level: -7.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 6783
- Joined: 2006/06/12 10:24:39
- Status: offline
Re:WHY doesn't Cakewalk care about the staff view?
2011/12/30 00:16:21
(permalink)
I see you all had a good Xmas on the boards, anyway. I couldn't make it, what with actually having a family and friends and actually wanting to see them. Clearly, I missed out.
http://johntatlockaudio.com/Self-build PC // 16GB RAM // i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz // Nofan 0dB cooler // ASUS P8-Z77 V Pro motherboard // Intel x-25m SSD System Drive // Seagate RAID Array Audio Drive // Windows 10 64 bit // Sonar Platinum (64 bit) // Sonar VS-700 // M-Audio Keystation Pro 88 // KRK RP-6 Monitors // and a bunch of other stuff
|
vintagevibe
Max Output Level: -51 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2446
- Joined: 2003/12/15 21:45:06
- Location: Atlanta, Ga
- Status: offline
Re:WHY doesn't Cakewalk care about the staff view?
2011/12/30 00:35:42
(permalink)
gtgarner
vintagevibe
I believe that others needed a DAW. Tats why they purchased Sonar. They wanted a DAW. Who purchased sonar in order to print notation? Anyone?
If others want an editor - buy an editor. Oh wait - I see. They want a FREE editor. Not only a Free editor, but a fabulously free editor. I get it.
A fabulously free editor that doesn't push up the price of Sonar. Gotcha.
Cakewalk please get movin on that and don't charge us anything. I wouldn't mind that.
I see who I'm dealing with now. You don't understand what a DAW is. That's the thing about these forums. You never know if you are communicating with a pro, hobbyist or 14 year old in their parent's basement. No that I know it's one of that last two I'm blocking you.
|
BenMMusTech
Max Output Level: -49 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2606
- Joined: 2011/05/23 16:59:57
- Location: Warragul, Victoria-Australia
- Status: offline
Re:WHY doesn't Cakewalk care about the staff view?
2011/12/30 00:42:48
(permalink)
Man I can't believe this is still going, I tried XLM, it didn't work when I opened it up in Notion 3, so that sucked.
I can do both and I'd just love for the XLM to work properly.
I've suggested that Notion 3 can act as a score editor in Sonar, it's a pain because it's a rewire device, it's a pain because it's only 44.1 but as a score editor for Sonar to put something of this caliber into Sonar is going to be hard.
Now Cubase have implemented, I believe a Notion 3 kind of score editor into Cubase 6, I haven't tested it so I can't comment on functionality but if it's anything like Notion 3 then it would be amazing.
Most not all musical notation functions work, things like stacato notes and cresendo/decresendo marking's, Notion 3 can do all of this.
How about this as a compromise, since Cakewalk and Notion 3 have some sort of partenership going this is obvious because of the package deal they did and which I partook in: Take over Notion 3 and fix the couple of gremlins with this program.
Here we have a really good hybrid score instrument because it comes with a great sample set and can be upgraded to the Vienna Symphony Orchestra package (I think, I can't find the link now).
But this software makes this argument moot (fixing the score editor) and continues The Cake's new paradigm of rather than offering a "whole" package you add on the bits you want and need.
If The Cake where to add the functionality of Cubase's score editor to Sonar, then expect to pay 200 dollars more for the product and I doubt you would get the 10gig London Symphony Orchestra pack that comes with Notion 3.
Ben
|
JClosed
Max Output Level: -77 dBFS
- Total Posts : 690
- Joined: 2009/12/19 11:50:26
- Status: offline
Re:WHY doesn't Cakewalk care about the staff view?
2011/12/30 03:01:08
(permalink)
I think it is a good idea to make extended notation editing a add-on to Sonar.
I think indeed a price about 200 dollars is about right.
In that case the people not needing the "pro" functions of the staff view (like me) can still buy Sonar fir a reasonable price, while those people that need the extended functions (the so-called "pro" people the OP seem to name them) fork out an additional 200 dollar. A bit like X extended.
If Notion 3 could be developed to be tighter integrated with Sonar it would be a perfect candidate. However - this will costs a lot of development resources, so if the price will be kept below the 200 dollar mark remains to be seen. On top of that I am afraid this will slow down trouble-shooting and development of Sonar as a whole, because those development resources are limited, and using a big chunk of them for developing this staff-integration will drain them from other projects and parts of Sonar.
That said - I think the possible staff view quirks/bugs of the present incarnation of Sonar has to be solved.
|
garyhb
Max Output Level: -89 dBFS
- Total Posts : 73
- Joined: 2009/09/15 07:53:40
- Location: Northern Ireland
- Status: offline
Re:WHY doesn't Cakewalk care about the staff view?
2011/12/30 06:02:15
(permalink)
I too find the staff in X1 frustrating to use - it used to be easier. For what it's worth, my vote is to follow the current Avid/Protools model i.e. * Improve editing, layout of staff view to a usable standard and, * Add a proper export facility for integration with e.g. Notation/Sibelius for those who need pro features. G
post edited by garyhb - 2011/12/30 10:20:08
Gear: Sonar Platinum 64bit, Win 10 Pro 64bit. Soundcraft Signature MTR 22. Intel Xeon E3-1240 V2 @ 3.40GHz, 16GB ECC RAM, Dell MB 0PM2CW, NVIDIA GeForce 210, 5TB WD Black storage, HannsG HT231 23" multi-touch monitor (1920x1080), LG 22" W2242S (1680x1050), Soundcraft Signature MTR 22, Adam A77X, Sonarworks Reference 3, Studiologic VMK188+ and the usual other stuff there's no space for...
|