Who...exactly...designed the new X1 GUI???

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garvolt2002
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Re:Who...exactly...designed the new X1 GUI??? 2010/12/19 05:00:32 (permalink)
Brandon Ryan [Cakewalk
]

Cakewalk designed the SONAR X1 UI and it is entirely the intellectual property of Cakewalk. Cakewalk can do whatever it wants to the UI, but changes take development time.

FWIW, many poeple do like the UI- me included - and have said so on this very forum. Anytime you overhaul something like this you have to go back and make some tweaks and you do this partly based on what some poeple feel like is missing from the old way. But I wouldn't say "so many people don't' like it" as many people really do like it.


Brendan this is not the way to respond to loyal customers, I feel you are very sometimes very arrogant in your responses lately.

We see no responses from the so called users who like the new interface and users want to be able to change the color scheme which they had before.

You have failed to fix Audio snap and created another problem which renders it useless.  You jump in and answer questions when it suits you, and your team ignores completely serious questions.

If your company do not get your act together then cakewalk will cease to exist because the customer comes first not what you like.

When you don't like the truth you threaten to close the thread and expel the user. If that is the draconian measures you are now going take so be it but fix the issues that the customers request.

I have not upgraded because of the many issues and unless audio snap is fixed I will never upgrade. Their are hundreds who feel like me and now I speak out and whither you want to silence me by expelling me thats ok as well.


 
post edited by garvolt2002 - 2010/12/19 05:07:38
#31
ba_midi
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Re:Who...exactly...designed the new X1 GUI??? 2010/12/19 05:02:04 (permalink)
daveny5


Brandon:
Why on earth would you respond to such an idiotic question in the first place? 

I know why he does.  Don't you?  He's very committed.  It's a curse ;)
 

Billy Arnell (ba-midi)

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Music gives me life, so I give life Music.
Thanks for listening - Let's Dance to the rhythm of life! :)
#32
ba_midi
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Re:Who...exactly...designed the new X1 GUI??? 2010/12/19 05:03:32 (permalink)
garvolt2002


Brandon Ryan [Cakewalk
]

Cakewalk designed the SONAR X1 UI and it is entirely the intellectual property of Cakewalk. Cakewalk can do whatever it wants to the UI, but changes take development time.

FWIW, many poeple do like the UI- me included - and have said so on this very forum. Anytime you overhaul something like this you have to go back and make some tweaks and you do this partly based on what some poeple feel like is missing from the old way. But I wouldn't say "so many people don't' like it" as many people really do like it.


Brendan this is not the way to respond to loyal customers, I feel you are very sometimes very arrogant in your responses lately.

We see no responses from the so called users who like the new interface and users want to be able to change the color scheme which they had before.

You have failed to fix Audio snap and created another problem which renders it useless.  You jump in and answer questions when it suits you, and your team ignores completely serious questions.

If your company do not get your act together then cakewalk will cease to exist because the customer comes first not what you like.

When you don't like the truth you threaten to close the thread and expel the user. If that is the draconian measures you are now going take so be it but fix the issues that the customers request.

I have not upgraded because of the many issues and unless audio snap is fixed I will never upgrade. Their are hundreds who feel like me and now I speak out and whither you want to silent me by expelling me thats ok as well.




OMG!!! is this the end of the world as we know it???
 
:P
 

Billy Arnell (ba-midi)

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Music gives me life, so I give life Music.
Thanks for listening - Let's Dance to the rhythm of life! :)
#33
candlesayshi
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Re:Who...exactly...designed the new X1 GUI??? 2010/12/19 05:17:41 (permalink)
garvolt2002

 We see no responses from the so called users who like the new interface
I like the new interface. A lot.


I have not upgraded


Oh...


#34
thegeek
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Re:Who...exactly...designed the new X1 GUI??? 2010/12/19 05:20:09 (permalink)
I have seen fair complaints after X1's release, I have seen genuine frustrations, I have seen sincere thoughts, judgments, critics, I have seen rants but some posts in this forum have gone oh so far.......

I don't get it! I really don't! Sometimes it looks as if some people don't have anything better to do in their life (if they have a life at all) than post offensive messagfes at forums.

Also I don't quite understand one thing:

which one is the foolest:
a) a company which supposedly deceives, offends, misleads, lies to its customer
b)a customer who after continued offend, misleading, mischeived, over charged etc etc keeps bothering with that company by buying its products and posting to its forum

Jeeeeeesus, Christ! I dont know about you folks, but when I make up my mind that the restaurant I tried serves crappy food, the service is awfull and they overcharge for their food - hell I might yell the first time but guess what? I aint stepping through their door no more, maybe not even their negborhood - street


Jeeeeeeeeeeeesus!

I guess if in a time not so far away from now, we don't see ANY Baker around these forums, and if Cakewalk becomes indeed arrogant and adopts a "this is what you get, take it or leave it" attitude....they will seem much more of a "proffesional company" and I will totally blame it on the way some people "behave" so to speak in these forums.

once again, Jeeeeeeeeeeesus! This is getting totally silly and distracting for us users who don't have X1 yet! Having to read all these sorts of crappy comments and troll-ish complaints (not referring to genuine posts with problems about X1 which are indeed fair and helpfull for the rest of us here)

edit for clarification: actually referring to message no#31
the Op seemed like having a genuine question all be it a litle harsh

post edited by thegeek - 2010/12/19 05:23:59
#35
ba_midi
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Re:Who...exactly...designed the new X1 GUI??? 2010/12/19 05:28:23 (permalink)
I don't get it! I really don't! Sometimes it looks as if some people don't have anything better to do in their life (if they have a life at all) than post offensive messagfes at forums.

 
It makes me sad, and at the same time - I've been there.  We all have,no?
 
Sometimes we just lose it.  It is my hope that we teach other how not to.
 
Not an easy trick ;)
 
 

Billy Arnell (ba-midi)

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Music gives me life, so I give life Music.
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#36
jimkleban
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Re:Who...exactly...designed the new X1 GUI??? 2010/12/19 07:28:49 (permalink)
Brandon,

If I were CAKE, I wouldn't do a poll on who likes the new UI.  Afraid you might not like the results.

The CV is particularly disappointing and a big step backward... too many mouse clicks needed to MIX as compared to the old CV and I finally figured out how to get the TRACK strips in the console (I stumbled upon the fact that you have to drag and drop the left border of the BUSS strips. I kept turning off and on the TRACKS in the view dropdown and it appeared nothing happened).

But, I do think that the new SONAR is a step in the right direction.  I do like the floating window thing and that I can dock other windows there (soft synths, PRV, etc).  That is a time saver.

Jim


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#37
jamtrax
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Re:Who...exactly...designed the new X1 GUI??? 2010/12/19 08:27:43 (permalink)
I think the new GUI,including colours'  is great. I could not stand the older look "Sonar" although I did like the console view a lot! I also like the large"control".I can see how some users using laptops(720 vs 1080p) would struggle with the "lack of real estate"! I am sure this will mature into a fine product and is definitely a refreshing change!
 
respects to all!
post edited by jamtrax - 2010/12/19 10:22:56
#38
The Maillard Reaction
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Re:Who...exactly...designed the new X1 GUI??? 2010/12/19 08:51:21 (permalink)

Sometimes I get the impression that  people with a 42" 1920x1080 displays think they get to see more than people with 18.4" 1920x1080 displays.

More blurry stuff maybe.

It's nice that 2560x1900 is under $4k now... maybe a few of those someday... I'll just put em right in front of the speakers and maybe work with headphones.





#39
jamtrax
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Re:Who...exactly...designed the new X1 GUI??? 2010/12/19 10:25:15 (permalink)
"Sometimes I get the impression that  people with a 42" 1920x1080 displays think they get to see more than people with 18.4" 1920x1080 displays. "
 
 
Size of the monitor has nothing to do with it. Resolution is what I am refering to!

 
post edited by jamtrax - 2010/12/19 10:26:57
#40
The Maillard Reaction
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Re:Who...exactly...designed the new X1 GUI??? 2010/12/19 10:35:39 (permalink)
Yes, a pixel is a pixel.

:-)


#41
John T
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Re:Who...exactly...designed the new X1 GUI??? 2010/12/19 10:40:00 (permalink)
garvolt2002


Brandon Ryan [Cakewalk
]

Cakewalk designed the SONAR X1 UI and it is entirely the intellectual property of Cakewalk. Cakewalk can do whatever it wants to the UI, but changes take development time.

FWIW, many poeple do like the UI- me included - and have said so on this very forum. Anytime you overhaul something like this you have to go back and make some tweaks and you do this partly based on what some poeple feel like is missing from the old way. But I wouldn't say "so many people don't' like it" as many people really do like it.


Brendan this is not the way to respond to loyal customers, I feel you are very sometimes very arrogant in your responses lately.

We see no responses from the so called users who like the new interface and users want to be able to change the color scheme which they had before.

You have failed to fix Audio snap and created another problem which renders it useless.  You jump in and answer questions when it suits you, and your team ignores completely serious questions.

If your company do not get your act together then cakewalk will cease to exist because the customer comes first not what you like.

When you don't like the truth you threaten to close the thread and expel the user. If that is the draconian measures you are now going take so be it but fix the issues that the customers request.

I have not upgraded because of the many issues and unless audio snap is fixed I will never upgrade. Their are hundreds who feel like me and now I speak out and whither you want to silence me by expelling me thats ok as well.



  The amountof stuff in this post which is just plain not true is remarkable, even for this forum.



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#42
Zuma
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Re:Who...exactly...designed the new X1 GUI??? 2010/12/19 10:49:08 (permalink)
I don't know... everytime I look at the screenshots I see an ugly Presonus Studio One.  To be fair I haven't actually used it yet but it doesn't instill any desire in me to use it at this point. I didn't like the concept and cluster f****d look of Studio One and I don't care for the look and new layout of X1. It's just ugly looking to me and I think too much is being made of the fact that we need everything to be in our face on one screen. It will take much more than a patch to get me to upgrade now. I do understand the new direction for Cake, and you knew it would have come eventually, but I think I've seen enough now to know it's not for me. A great company and you can't fault them for the effort and committment to shake things up... but, for right now anyway, the result falls far too short for my liking.

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#43
yorolpal
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Re:Who...exactly...designed the new X1 GUI??? 2010/12/19 11:03:17 (permalink)
Once again...to be clear...I GENERALLY LIKE THE GUI!!  But also again...to be clear...why was the ability to customize colors for most of the elements in the gui taken away???  How come??

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#44
John
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Re:Who...exactly...designed the new X1 GUI??? 2010/12/19 11:07:40 (permalink)
Perhaps they will allow skinning someday. They just didn't get to it this time around.

Best
John
#45
yorolpal
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Re:Who...exactly...designed the new X1 GUI??? 2010/12/19 11:10:12 (permalink)
Let's hope, ol pal.  Let's hope:-)

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#46
The Maillard Reaction
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Re:Who...exactly...designed the new X1 GUI??? 2010/12/19 11:32:19 (permalink)
I still think a simple shader and hue slider control could give them 100% control of the design while each user could customize the gamma and hue to their overall taste.

A lot of video games have similar options.

Then people could use the existing color options to account for their very specific needs or preferences.

best,
mike





#47
Zuma
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Re:Who...exactly...designed the new X1 GUI??? 2010/12/19 11:35:26 (permalink)
We hollered for skinning on Cubase.net for years, but it fell, and continues to fall on deaf ears. If something as simple as color customization was so severely handcuffed, I wouldn't get your hopes up for a skinnable GUI. Be thankful your Forum as of yet hasn't gone the way of Cubase.net. Our old Forum is now a read only archive and the new Forum is product specific. You can only post in the sub forum for the product you own. Don't own C5? You can't post and ask questions in that particular forum. You can get around and talk to old friends well enough, I guess, but it's much more restrictive and elitist than it used to be. Ah well, change is the only constant as they say. I guess I need to stop crying for yesterday and get on with the business of making music.

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#48
Keni
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Re:Who...exactly...designed the new X1 GUI??? 2010/12/19 12:30:32 (permalink)
Brandon Ryan [Cakewalk
]

Cakewalk designed the SONAR X1 UI and it is entirely the intellectual property of Cakewalk. Cakewalk can do whatever it wants to the UI, but changes take development time.

FWIW, many poeple do like the UI- me included - and have said so on this very forum. Anytime you overhaul something like this you have to go back and make some tweaks and you do this partly based on what some poeple feel like is missing from the old way. But I wouldn't say "so many people don't' like it" as many people really do like it.


Hi Brandon... thanks for the clarification... I for one really don't care much about the interface and the likes... It mostly hs what we had before and that's the most important to me... where it loses out is that what it looks like and how it works are two different things... and changing the looks causing so much loss of control is not a good trade off for a professional... The limiting factors caused by the new ui (or maybe just the amount of time so far) is my only real issue....

Whatever it is that the company believes is so much superior is not helping those of us who are having difficulty with our work due to the losses...

I have changed what colors I can and it made things a little better for me but truthfully? I can't condone the loss of so many things we already had... This is not a step forward this time... I understrand that in time to come it will improve, but it's gonna take a long time to cover so many outstanding issues and we (the users) have to tolerate the difficulties until such time. We will always find work arounds and such, but it's very painful...

Tho I'd love to continue to work with X1, unless the x1a update corrects many issues, I will be forced to go back to 8.5.3... for me there's nothing advantageous in this release other than the ProChannel which I like, but will live without (I have lots of plugins that work fine) and wait for a time that (hopefully) this version at least catches up with the previous...

I appreciate all the hard work, but I feel there's something definitely wrong in the decision making this time...

Keni


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#49
brundlefly
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Re:Who...exactly...designed the new X1 GUI??? 2010/12/19 13:09:43 (permalink)
Below are a couple of screenshots showing how bad the use of screen realestate can be in X1 compared to 8.5. These are two shots of the same template project in X1 and 8.5. In 8.5 on a 1680x1050 display, I can see all the most useful controls for 8 MIDI and Audio tracks and 4 buses, including:
 
M, S, R, Echo, Archive, Freeze, PRV Mode Layers Minimize, Maximize, Read, Write, Volume, Pan, Trim (Vel Offset), FX Bins, Input and Output (with full-length names), and Meters.
 
In X1, I get M, S, R,  Echo,  layers, Minimize and Meters.
 
If I drag the pane divider out another 1/2" or so in X1, I can also get the Edit Filter on Tracks. To get everything 8.5 offers in X1 without drastically increasing the width of the track header pane, I have to reduce the number of tracks and buses from 12 to 8.
 
If I do the same in 8.5, I can see every widget there is, including Key+ and Phase buttons which now require opening the Inspector in X1.
 
I can see sacrificing a little info to get larger, more readable/controllable widgets, but X1 seems to have sacrificed a lot for little gain, and even some loss of readability.
 

 

 
 
#50
yorolpal
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Re:Who...exactly...designed the new X1 GUI??? 2010/12/19 13:15:53 (permalink)
Yea, there's a pretty big difference between "uncluttered" and "downright spartan".

https://soundcloud.com/doghouse-riley/tracks 
https://doghouseriley1.bandcamp.com 
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#51
The Maillard Reaction
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Re:Who...exactly...designed the new X1 GUI??? 2010/12/19 13:16:22 (permalink)
Yep... there it is. :-(

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#52
John
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Re:Who...exactly...designed the new X1 GUI??? 2010/12/19 13:36:06 (permalink)
Outstanding illustration for what is lost in X1 Brundlefly.

One important thing though is it true that the inspector will show all MIDI widgets in X1? If so it will be a long asked for feature from me. It may prove for me to be an answer to the spartanness of X1. 

Best
John
#53
brundlefly
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Re:Who...exactly...designed the new X1 GUI??? 2010/12/19 13:46:02 (permalink)
To follow up on my previous post. Here's S8.5 showing 18 tracks and 6 buses with all the info that X1 shows for 8 tracks and 4 buses plus Archive, Freeze, Read, Write, Volume widgets, PRV mode buttons on tracks, and Input/Output gains and pans on buses. That's twice as many tracks and buses with at least half-again as much info/control in each:
 

#54
StepD
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Re:Who...exactly...designed the new X1 GUI??? 2010/12/19 13:49:37 (permalink)
John


Outstanding illustration for what is lost in X1 Brundlefly.

One important thing though is it true that the inspector will show all MIDI widgets in X1? If so it will be a long asked for feature from me. It may prove for me to be an answer to the spartanness of X1. 


Yeah, the track inspector really helps. Big improvement. I hated constantly having to resize tracks and the track pane.

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#55
UnderTow
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Re:Who...exactly...designed the new X1 GUI??? 2010/12/19 13:54:25 (permalink)
garvolt2002


Brandon Ryan [Cakewalk
]

Cakewalk designed the SONAR X1 UI and it is entirely the intellectual property of Cakewalk. Cakewalk can do whatever it wants to the UI, but changes take development time.

FWIW, many poeple do like the UI- me included - and have said so on this very forum. Anytime you overhaul something like this you have to go back and make some tweaks and you do this partly based on what some poeple feel like is missing from the old way. But I wouldn't say "so many people don't' like it" as many people really do like it.


Brendan this is not the way to respond to loyal customers, I feel you are very sometimes very arrogant in your responses lately.

I fail to see the arrogance in Brandon's words. I do think there are some areas where Cakewalk deserves critique but I do not agree with your assessment of Brandon at all nor do I find his response inappropriate in the least.

UnderTow
#56
John
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Re:Who...exactly...designed the new X1 GUI??? 2010/12/19 13:55:12 (permalink)
Now that is a step forward. Thanks Step.

Best
John
#57
Keni
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Re:Who...exactly...designed the new X1 GUI??? 2010/12/19 13:57:13 (permalink)
brundlefly


Below are a couple of screenshots showing how bad the use of screen realestate can be in X1 compared to 8.5. These are two shots of the same template project in X1 and 8.5. In 8.5 on a 1680x1050 display, I can see all the most useful controls for 8 MIDI and Audio tracks and 4 buses, including:
 
M, S, R, Echo, Archive, Freeze, PRV Mode Layers Minimize, Maximize, Read, Write, Volume, Pan, Trim (Vel Offset), FX Bins, Input and Output (with full-length names), and Meters.
 
In X1, I get M, S, R,  Echo,  layers, Minimize and Meters.
 
If I drag the pane divider out another 1/2" or so in X1, I can also get the Edit Filter on Tracks. To get everything 8.5 offers in X1 without drastically increasing the width of the track header pane, I have to reduce the number of tracks and buses from 12 to 8.
 
If I do the same in 8.5, I can see every widget there is, including Key+ and Phase buttons which now require opening the Inspector in X1.
 
I can see sacrificing a little info to get larger, more readable/controllable widgets, but X1 seems to have sacrificed a lot for little gain, and even some loss of readability.
 
 
 
  I agree with you 1000%


In 8.5 if it looked too cluttered for you <sigh>... You could hide almost everything... You had a choice.

Now your choice is how much CAN I see... and it's disappointing. I'm old and having trouble with my eyes but I crowded my screen with tools to work better and got used to using them without reading... I work fast!

Now I'm constantly re-sizing to see and access things...

I like the new Inspector, but it's a lot of real-estate to see things I used to see without it! So I use it when I need but there we go again... MORE key strokes to do my work.

Yesterday's session here should have been completed in a few hours instead of a whole day/night... I worked from 10am to 3am with minimal breaks for eating/posting on this forum/etc... I shoudl have been finished long before dinner!

Keni

 
 




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#58
brundlefly
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Re:Who...exactly...designed the new X1 GUI??? 2010/12/19 14:15:22 (permalink)
John


Outstanding illustration for what is lost in X1 Brundlefly.

One important thing though is it true that the inspector will show all MIDI widgets in X1? If so it will be a long asked for feature from me. It may prove for me to be an answer to the spartanness of X1. 
 
Thanks, John. Good to see you back BTW.
 
Yes, the Inspector is much improved, and will prove to be indispensible in working in X1. But, obviously, it only gives you one track's info at a time. I posted another screenshot with S8.5 showing 18 tracks and six buses. With a little strategic adjustment of the Track name field, I was able to add track pans and bus input pans to that view without significantly increasing the header width.
 
If you try this in X1, you'll have to add a couple inches to your header width to get the pans, and you can't get meters on that many tracks and buses no matter what you do. The inefficiency of X1's meter display is a big part of the realestate problem. Moving the meter scale outside the bar did not help.
 
In order for me to get along with X1, I am going to be spending a lot more time in the Console view, even for establishing a rough mix during composition where I refer to work in the track view. The more I look at this, the more I am tempted to stick with 8.5 until X1 is really debugged to the point that it's more functional than 8.5, and (I hope) has some of the customizability of 8.5 restored.


post edited by brundlefly - 2010/12/19 14:21:49
#59
John
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Re:Who...exactly...designed the new X1 GUI??? 2010/12/19 14:39:05 (permalink)
Brundlefly;

You did a great job in making it very clear the short comings of X1's display. The way screen sets work (per project) makes them less useful to me as a means to help in getting around this issue. I wonder why they didn't make them like layouts? Global.

Also I see that you have all tracks and buses with the same color header.  Is this on purpose? Are they unchangeable unlike in 8.5?

I can see X1 has certain advantages but its also going to be very confounding to me.



Best
John
#60
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