Who...exactly...designed the new X1 GUI???

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Positively Charged
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Re:Who...exactly...designed the new X1 GUI??? 2010/12/20 04:58:35 (permalink)
I am still waiting for my SX1 to arrive.  I only bought it because it reminded me of Cubase SX1.  Haha, just kidding.  A little. 

I will spend more time with it and less time here until I can give it an honest assessment.
#91
garvolt2002
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Re:Who...exactly...designed the new X1 GUI??? 2010/12/20 05:39:00 (permalink)
Guys
Ok you have given me plenty of hassle over my remarks and in hindsight I will agree on some things.
1. I withdraw the arrogant statement I made against Brendan this I should not have done but frustration is creeping in with X1 and from what I am reading on here it is not not workable even though we have videos showing examples of it working.
2. Audio snap is a different issue. I believe this was first released in version 6. Does no agree with me this should have got fixed long ago. Every release make it worse and 8.5 was a nightmare trying to find where everything was in audio snap and it didn't work. Check out the loads of posts on this subject alone. Very few could even understand how it was supposed to work.
3. You guys can fight the color issue I can live with it.
If the patch that will be released tomorrow fixes the Audio snap problem then I will upgrade.

Sorry Brendan once again.
This is all I can say.

#92
Zuma
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Re:Who...exactly...designed the new X1 GUI??? 2010/12/20 07:58:36 (permalink)
I've stared at the screenshots enough over the last couple of days that I think I've become desensitized to the newness of it all... it's not bothering me so much anymore and I'm starting to even like it a little. It's amusing how you can fight something so much just cuz it's so new and alien that your consciousness can't wrap around it. Interestingly the same kind of debate is raging among Cubasers. Many long time users totally disgusted with Steinberg over C5 and the now impending C6. Same kind of arguments too. People are pissed about the mere mention of C6 with C5 still so buggy and many features, new and old, pretty much unusable. So for the "grass is greener crowd"... it aint! Well, if you can't beat 'em, join 'em. I've closely monitored this forum over the last few days and I'm already familar with the debacle that is/was C5... weighing the two(X1vsC5) I think I have to go with X1. And again, being familar with the mess Steinberg has made since ditching SX, I trust Cake's dev's more than Steinberg's. Guess I'll climb down off the fence now.

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gtgarner
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Re:Who...exactly...designed the new X1 GUI??? 2010/12/20 08:04:58 (permalink)
Zuma


I've stared at the screenshots enough over the last couple of days that I think I've become desensitized to the newness of it all... it's not bothering me so much anymore and I'm starting to even like it a little. It's amusing how you can fight something so much just cuz it's so new and alien that your consciousness can't wrap around it. Interestingly the same kind of debate is raging among Cubasers. Many long time users totally disgusted with Steinberg over C5 and the now impending C6. Same kind of arguments too. People are pissed about the mere mention of C6 with C5 still so buggy and many features, new and old, pretty much unusable. So for the "grass is greener crowd"... it aint! Well, if you can't beat 'em, join 'em. I've closely monitored this forum over the last few days and I'm already familar with the debacle that is/was C5... weighing the two(X1vsC5) I think I have to go with X1. And again, being familar with the mess Steinberg has made since ditching SX, I trust Cake's dev's more than Steinberg's. Guess I'll climb down off the fence now.
Zuma,
 
Please repost your response at least 100 times.  This was the best worded response I've seen in a long time.  Excellent points.  Excellent post.
#94
The Maillard Reaction
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Re:Who...exactly...designed the new X1 GUI??? 2010/12/20 08:10:57 (permalink)
I'm not a grass is always greener guy.

This is my lawn... just cause it's been invaded by cinch bugs doesn't mean I'm not going to take a stab at getting the lawn back in shape.

There are specific and valid complaints about the inefficient use of display real estate. There are specific and valid complaints about the contrasts and colors.

Both of the situations need to be improved.

very best,
mike


edit spelling
post edited by mike_mccue - 2010/12/20 08:14:57


#95
Jonbouy
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Re:Who...exactly...designed the new X1 GUI??? 2010/12/20 08:13:52 (permalink)
Both of the situations need to be improved.


Better?

"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles.
In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
#96
The Maillard Reaction
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Re:Who...exactly...designed the new X1 GUI??? 2010/12/20 08:14:24 (permalink)
"I fully agree with you, and for the sake of wagering - $5 is good.

I am obviously not using the things that are broken. I havent found anything "broken". 

I suppose I don't care about the size of the console/track strips or the colors, or anything that some folks say is "broken".  Its just different to me.  The actual DAW works iin all of the ways that I use it.  As a matter of fact I used it tonight at church during our Christmas perfomance on 5 songs. It worked flawlessly.   
 
The smallest song was 15 tracks of intense frozen Midi pluggins (Ivory, BFD, Chris Heins BASS, B4II Organ...etc)  with 5 UA pluggins per song."


Are you saying that you hit play and it played so you are pleased?

:-)


#97
The Maillard Reaction
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Re:Who...exactly...designed the new X1 GUI??? 2010/12/20 08:19:01 (permalink)
Jonbouy



Both of the situations need to be improved.


Better?

yes, much.


#98
gtgarner
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Re:Who...exactly...designed the new X1 GUI??? 2010/12/20 08:24:10 (permalink)
mike_mccue


"I fully agree with you, and for the sake of wagering - $5 is good.

I am obviously not using the things that are broken. I havent found anything "broken". 

I suppose I don't care about the size of the console/track strips or the colors, or anything that some folks say is "broken".  Its just different to me.  The actual DAW works iin all of the ways that I use it.  As a matter of fact I used it tonight at church during our Christmas perfomance on 5 songs. It worked flawlessly.   

The smallest song was 15 tracks of intense frozen Midi pluggins (Ivory, BFD, Chris Heins BASS, B4II Organ...etc)  with 5 UA pluggins per song."


Are you saying that you hit play and it played so you are pleased?

:-)


I'm saying that:  Last night during my live Christmas concert at church.
 
I hit play and it played
I hit record and it recorded
I inserted  multiple UA pluggins and it it was flawless - I ran one stage mike through X1 using UA's EMT 250 "power hog" pluggin - no problem
I recorded MIDI and it recorded just fine
I connected a few different Audio Interfaces (TC and Motu mk3 hybrid - RME 400 is next ) and it was perfect.
I used X1 in a live environment and it did not dissapoint
I inserted sends and returns through my audio interface - perfect.
I had multiple projects opened at the same time (158 total tracks) with different UA audio effects - no problem.
I had a separate click track running through a separate audio outport (Motu ultralite MK-3) for the bands headphones while running my live performances.
I had multiple screens displaying X1 on stage.  
I used my M-Audio Axiom 61s as a control surface onstage to control Bus volume - start/stop- jump to markers and playing a few Ivory Piano licks.
 
I did all of this at the same time.  Yes- I hit play and it played all of that.    
 
I even had 2 folks hand me CD's asking me to play their tracks at the last minute.  With X1 open I used ripped the tracks with MSFT Media player and imported the audio right into a new X1 project while on stage. (I hate last minute stuff - but I depended on X1 and it did not dissapoint) . 
 
X1 worked. 
post edited by gtgarner - 2010/12/20 08:42:23
#99
The Maillard Reaction
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Re:Who...exactly...designed the new X1 GUI??? 2010/12/20 08:25:35 (permalink)

Thanks for clarifying.

That seems like the same checklist the beta testers were using.

all the best,
mike


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...wicked
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Re:Who...exactly...designed the new X1 GUI??? 2010/12/20 11:06:02 (permalink)
garvolt2002
1. I withdraw the arrogant statement I made against Brendan this I should not have done but frustration is creeping in with X1 and from what I am reading on here it is not not workable even though we have videos showing examples of it working. 
2. Audio snap is a different issue. I believe this was first released in version 6. Does no agree with me this should have got fixed long ago. Every release make it worse and 8.5 was a nightmare trying to find where everything was in audio snap and it didn't work. Check out the loads of posts on this subject alone. Very few could even understand how it was supposed to work.
3. You guys can fight the color issue I can live with it.
If the patch that will be released tomorrow fixes the Audio snap problem then I will upgrade.

Well first off, his name is "BRANDON". The apology might fall on deaf ears since you can't get his name right (twice). 


Audiosnap has had a rough road, I railed on it pretty hard when it came out v1 because the tech was there but the workflow was terrible. v2 came out and seemed like it was even worse, but then you realized that by integrating it a little better it was actually much smoother. I still think it's a little awkward, and editing tempo maps is still an area where a few bugs exist, but for simple bread and butter audio quantization it works and works pretty well.


I'm pretty sure a patch is due on WED, so we'll see!


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#101
brundlefly
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Re:Who...exactly...designed the new X1 GUI??? 2010/12/20 11:57:00 (permalink)
mike_mccue
That seems like the same checklist the beta testers were using.
BaDUMdum... CRASH!
 
post edited by brundlefly - 2010/12/20 11:58:09
#102
Bub
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Re:Who...exactly...designed the new X1 GUI??? 2010/12/20 12:05:46 (permalink)
gtgarner


mike_mccue


"I fully agree with you, and for the sake of wagering - $5 is good.

I am obviously not using the things that are broken. I havent found anything "broken". 

I suppose I don't care about the size of the console/track strips or the colors, or anything that some folks say is "broken".  Its just different to me.  The actual DAW works iin all of the ways that I use it.  As a matter of fact I used it tonight at church during our Christmas perfomance on 5 songs. It worked flawlessly.   

The smallest song was 15 tracks of intense frozen Midi pluggins (Ivory, BFD, Chris Heins BASS, B4II Organ...etc)  with 5 UA pluggins per song."


Are you saying that you hit play and it played so you are pleased?

:-)


I'm saying that:  Last night during my live Christmas concert at church.
 
I hit play and it played
I hit record and it recorded
I inserted  multiple UA pluggins and it it was flawless - I ran one stage mike through X1 using UA's EMT 250 "power hog" pluggin - no problem
I recorded MIDI and it recorded just fine
I connected a few different Audio Interfaces (TC and Motu mk3 hybrid - RME 400 is next ) and it was perfect.
I used X1 in a live environment and it did not dissapoint
I inserted sends and returns through my audio interface - perfect.
I had multiple projects opened at the same time (158 total tracks) with different UA audio effects - no problem.
I had a separate click track running through a separate audio outport (Motu ultralite MK-3) for the bands headphones while running my live performances.
I had multiple screens displaying X1 on stage.  
I used my M-Audio Axiom 61s as a control surface onstage to control Bus volume - start/stop- jump to markers and playing a few Ivory Piano licks.
 
I did all of this at the same time.  Yes- I hit play and it played all of that.    
 
I even had 2 folks hand me CD's asking me to play their tracks at the last minute.  With X1 open I used ripped the tracks with MSFT Media player and imported the audio right into a new X1 project while on stage. (I hate last minute stuff - but I depended on X1 and it did not dissapoint) . 
 
X1 worked. 

I would never use X1 in a live situation until the patch comes out that fixes some known bugs and I tested it extensively.

I'm sorry gt ... I'm just having a hard time believing anything you're saying. If it's true, then I'm truly happy for you, but I'm having a hard time buying this.

"I pulled the head off Elvis, filled Fred up to his pelvis, yaba daba do, the King is gone, and so are you."
#103
gtgarner
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Re:Who...exactly...designed the new X1 GUI??? 2010/12/20 12:11:13 (permalink)
Bub


gtgarner


mike_mccue


"I fully agree with you, and for the sake of wagering - $5 is good.

I am obviously not using the things that are broken. I havent found anything "broken". 

I suppose I don't care about the size of the console/track strips or the colors, or anything that some folks say is "broken".  Its just different to me.  The actual DAW works iin all of the ways that I use it.  As a matter of fact I used it tonight at church during our Christmas perfomance on 5 songs. It worked flawlessly.   

The smallest song was 15 tracks of intense frozen Midi pluggins (Ivory, BFD, Chris Heins BASS, B4II Organ...etc)  with 5 UA pluggins per song."


Are you saying that you hit play and it played so you are pleased?

:-)


I'm saying that:  Last night during my live Christmas concert at church.

I hit play and it played
I hit record and it recorded
I inserted  multiple UA pluggins and it it was flawless - I ran one stage mike through X1 using UA's EMT 250 "power hog" pluggin - no problem
I recorded MIDI and it recorded just fine
I connected a few different Audio Interfaces (TC and Motu mk3 hybrid - RME 400 is next ) and it was perfect.
I used X1 in a live environment and it did not dissapoint
I inserted sends and returns through my audio interface - perfect.
I had multiple projects opened at the same time (158 total tracks) with different UA audio effects - no problem.
I had a separate click track running through a separate audio outport (Motu ultralite MK-3) for the bands headphones while running my live performances.
I had multiple screens displaying X1 on stage.  
I used my M-Audio Axiom 61s as a control surface onstage to control Bus volume - start/stop- jump to markers and playing a few Ivory Piano licks.

I did all of this at the same time.  Yes- I hit play and it played all of that.    

I even had 2 folks hand me CD's asking me to play their tracks at the last minute.  With X1 open I used ripped the tracks with MSFT Media player and imported the audio right into a new X1 project while on stage. (I hate last minute stuff - but I depended on X1 and it did not dissapoint) . 

X1 worked. 

I would never use X1 in a live situation until the patch comes out that fixes some known bugs and I tested it extensively.

I'm sorry gt ... I'm just having a hard time believing anything you're saying. If it's true, then I'm truly happy for you, but I'm having a hard time buying this.
 
Bellevue Baptist Church
10700 S. Emerald Avenue
Chicago Il 60473
773-568-3200 
 
Garlan Garner - 11AM Director.     We will be doing this again next Sunday @ 6PM.  Please call or come by to watch. The secretary (Lorna Clarke) will provide more information if you need anything.
 
If you want to attend Choir rehersal tonight....feel free.  Same place @ 7PM - 8:30.   Please come by BUB.  You might like church.
post edited by gtgarner - 2010/12/20 12:25:42
#104
Jim Kalinowski
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Re:Who...exactly...designed the new X1 GUI??? 2010/12/20 12:16:03 (permalink)
yorolpal


Once again...to be clear...I GENERALLY LIKE THE GUI!!  But also again...to be clear...why was the ability to customize colors for most of the elements in the gui taken away???  How come??


I've been a software engineer for twenty years, so here's my speculation (the following is just my opinion, take it or leave it): Developing a UI is painfully time consuming and always more work then anyone expects.  Add to that a ship date driven my marketing and VPs, and at some point some things must be cut.  I wouldn't be surprised if at some point in developing X1, the developers realized that there is a ton of code related to color customizing and decided to cut as much as possible to 1) reduce the size of the code base and 2) make a deadline.  Good thing is it shouldn't be hard to put it all back.

Just my opinion (based on 20 years experience).
#105
Bub
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Re:Who...exactly...designed the new X1 GUI??? 2010/12/20 12:22:59 (permalink)
Damn, I had a chance to go to Chicago this week and turned it down, I would have taken you up on your offer.

Got a web cam you could set up and provide us with a link to?

"I pulled the head off Elvis, filled Fred up to his pelvis, yaba daba do, the King is gone, and so are you."
#106
Positively Charged
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Re:Who...exactly...designed the new X1 GUI??? 2010/12/20 13:52:35 (permalink)
Bub


Damn, I had a chance to go to Chicago this week and turned it down, I would have taken you up on your offer.

Got a web cam you could set up and provide us with a link to?

Hiya, Bub!
 
By publishing his church event details (with start time, venue address, and even phone number and secretary contact info!), I think Mr. Garner went one step farther than anybody can be expected to.  I think he has supported his claim just fine. 
 
He made a very generous offer, which should not be casually dismissed.  Go to his event.  Or take his word.  Asking him to set up a webcam?  Aw man; not cool, even if you live on a mountaintop in the Andes. 
 
I wonder, if he provided your webcam view, would his claim be acceptable?
 
Healthy skepticism is a good thing, but at some point requests for proof just sound like an unreasonable unwillingness to accept a reasonable claim.  What's next, sitting at his DAW to witness the reinstall of X1 just to make sure it is really X1 being used?
 
My X1 just arrived.  I'm about to break the seal and get started.  Mine came in the shrinkwrap flat-pack from Sweetwater.  Even the candy is flat!  The only drawback is that Smarties would crush, so mine didn't come with them. 

#107
Brandon Ryan [Roland]
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Re:Who...exactly...designed the new X1 GUI??? 2010/12/20 13:53:35 (permalink)
Bub


I'm sorry gt ... I'm just having a hard time believing anything you're saying. If it's true, then I'm truly happy for you, but I'm having a hard time buying this.

I don't see anything in the post that's hard to believe. Incidentally I used X1 in a live performance and demo in Japan in front of nearly 1000 people.

All the things Garlan is pointing out that he did should work just fine in X1 and it sounds like they did.


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#108
...wicked
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Re:Who...exactly...designed the new X1 GUI??? 2010/12/20 13:58:35 (permalink)
Bub
I would never use X1 in a live situation until the patch comes out that fixes some known bugs and I tested it extensively. 
For the record, I wouldn't use ANY x.0 software in a live situation either. But, he did and I commend him for it. He really gave Cake the opportunity to stand up or fall down and it looks like he was rewarded pretty well. Certainly not everyone would have the same experience but three cheers for him!


As for being skeptical, c'mon man you've gotta at some point either say you just don't want to hear the truth or you've got to congratulate him. A webcam? You're kidding me right?

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#109
ba_midi
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Re:Who...exactly...designed the new X1 GUI??? 2010/12/20 14:07:52 (permalink)
Brandon Ryan [Cakewalk
]

Bub


I'm sorry gt ... I'm just having a hard time believing anything you're saying. If it's true, then I'm truly happy for you, but I'm having a hard time buying this.

I don't see anything in the post that's hard to believe. Incidentally I used X1 in a live performance and demo in Japan in front of nearly 1000 people.

All the things Garlan is pointing out that he did should work just fine in X1 and it sounds like they did.

I don't mean to stir the pot, but if X1 (or any DAW today) can't do those things then they shouldn't be on the market.  So of course I would expect X1 to act like a "basic studio setup" (ie, taking inputs, sending outputs, record/playback, etc).
 
But I haven't seen too many who use their DAW for creating tracks with a bunch of VSTs, and loops, and heavy "editing" and moving/rearranging clips/tracks, and changing workflow setups via screensets (heavily) and many more functions that go beyond the basic of a recording system.
 
In these areas (other than the look/feel/font size topics) is where I think people might run into some of the issues that have bothered some of us.   Not that these things won't be addressed (I'm sure they will) but I think it just kind of proves out that those using X1 like a big tape deck (so to speak) are not going to stress test these other aspects as much as the electronic music makers and other composers might (and will).
 

Billy Arnell (ba-midi)

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Thanks for listening - Let's Dance to the rhythm of life! :)
#110
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Re:Who...exactly...designed the new X1 GUI??? 2010/12/20 14:32:37 (permalink)
ba_midi

...I think it just kind of proves out that those using X1 like a big tape deck (so to speak) are not going to stress test these other aspects as much as the electronic music makers and other composers might (and will).
 
I never did any recording with reel to reel or hard disk recording systems but I still think of all DAWs as a big tape deck.  Just a more advanced one.  With VU needles and LEDs that don't malfunction and without the hassle of having to demagnetize or clean heads, capstans, or pinch rollers.
 
But even with virtual instruments and massive numbers of MIDI tracks that have more automation than a space shuttle launch, it's still a tape deck at its core.  This functionality must work first or none of the rest is worth the bother.
#111
gtgarner
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Re:Who...exactly...designed the new X1 GUI??? 2010/12/20 14:34:34 (permalink)
Multiple sends returns inside and outside and thru  X1/ crossfading envelopes  / triggering bulelight X1 for DMX stage lighting / all running live is not what I consider "basic studio"  - but , thats must me.  

The primary reason I'm using X1 live is because this other popular DAW (some kind of tools)  keeps crashing in their latest version using 2 of my approved Audio Interfaces. 

I realize I use X1 ( with 8.5 still installed) in an exclusive setting, but my productions (final product) is nothing short of professional.  I will post a picture soon of what X1 controlled in my church. 

Its funny that folks with little to no interest in the tech side of music at my church don't even ask me which DAW I used or anything else.  They just ask....when can you do that again? 

Is there only one type of professional in this business?  Studio only? 

If you won't use X1 live yet, then fine with me. I use X1 live at least 2-3 times a week in rehersals. It does not know the difference between a rehersal and live. It just works.  I trust it. So far it hasn't given me a reaon not to.
#112
UnderTow
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Re:Who...exactly...designed the new X1 GUI??? 2010/12/20 15:34:31 (permalink)
gtgarner


Is there only one type of professional in this business?
No and I think that is exactly Billy's point. The way you use Sonar is very different than the way, for instance, I use Sonar so we are indeed likely to encounter different positives and negatives.

UnderTow

#113
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Re:Who...exactly...designed the new X1 GUI??? 2010/12/20 15:40:35 (permalink)
UnderTow


gtgarner


Is there only one type of professional in this business?
No and I think that is exactly Billy's point. The way you use Sonar is very different than the way, for instance, I use Sonar so we are indeed likely to encounter different positives and negatives.

UnderTow

Thanks - that was exactly my point.
 

Billy Arnell (ba-midi)

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Music gives me life, so I give life Music.
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#114
John T
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Re:Who...exactly...designed the new X1 GUI??? 2010/12/20 15:43:46 (permalink)
If people are making that point, then it might be polite to just say that, rather than say "anyone getting work done with this must just be using it like a big tape deck".

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#115
ba_midi
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Re:Who...exactly...designed the new X1 GUI??? 2010/12/20 15:50:06 (permalink)
John T


If people are making that point, then it might be polite to just say that, rather than say "anyone getting work done with this must just be using it like a big tape deck".

That's not what I said, as you know (by reading).  But even if someone said that, it's not necessarily a put down.   That IS one approach for any DAW.
 
 

Billy Arnell (ba-midi)

http://www.ba-midi.com/music/files
Music gives me life, so I give life Music.
Thanks for listening - Let's Dance to the rhythm of life! :)
#116
yorolpal
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Re:Who...exactly...designed the new X1 GUI??? 2010/12/20 15:55:29 (permalink)
Yup, my engineer runs a digital studio of his own on nights and weekends.  He uses DP and ProTools LE.  And until recently he didn't know doodly squat about midi or soft synths and the like.  He did use plugin fx but that was about it.  So it would be very accurate to say he has and continues to use DP just like a big tape deck.  In fact that's probably how he would describe it.

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#117
Poco
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Re:Who...exactly...designed the new X1 GUI??? 2010/12/20 16:10:36 (permalink)
Based on the comparison between the 8.5.3 track view and the X1 track view, the DVDs will sit in the box.  I use track view for individual tracks and CV for busses.  You have removed too much information from the track view, eg. the FX bin.  I do not want to have to individually select a track to see if it has an effect inserted or not.  The same for the other data.

Too bad.  I hope Cakewalk changes this, but for now, I am just buying the release to stay current. 

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#118
Poco
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Re:Who...exactly...designed the new X1 GUI??? 2010/12/20 16:12:21 (permalink)
BTW, Garlan, are you familiar with the "other" Bellevue Baptist Church?

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Where there is no peace, it is not peaceful.
#119
Guest
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Re:Who...exactly...designed the new X1 GUI??? 2010/12/20 16:12:23 (permalink)
Poco


Based on the comparison between the 8.5.3 track view and the X1 track view, the DVDs will sit in the box.  I use track view for individual tracks and CV for busses.  You have removed too much information from the track view, eg. the FX bin.  I do not want to have to individually select a track to see if it has an effect inserted or not.  The same for the other data.

Too bad.  I hope Cakewalk changes this, but for now, I am just buying the release to stay current. 


The FX bins are still there. Right where they always were.
#120
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