miguelito
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Re:Why Apple users have switched to Dell/Windows! Will DAWs be next?
2013/02/03 21:30:18
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MS-based solution is the clear winner. The greatest reason however is because of software I would argue that the MS-based solution for business wins because their developer tools for corporate software rock. Microsoft started out as a company that made tools for developers. While it is true that they have grown far beyond that their systems platform integration with their development tools make for a very cost effective tool set. fwiw: I used to do dev work for Macs (Objective C++) also and I'm currently trying to learn the Android OS and dev tools so it isn't a case ignorance of what I don't have. Regards,
Mike A Roseberry racer w/ Win7 Pro (64) fully loaded RME UFX Fireface; Sonar X2; Guitars and amps. Axon 100 MKII, M-Audio Keystation Pro 88, Komplete All software latest revision
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bitflipper
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Re:Why Apple users have switched to Dell/Windows! Will DAWs be next?
2013/02/03 21:34:37
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Just walking into any Starbucks and observing the sea of identical 20-something clones tapping away on identical Macbooks is enough to put me off the whole Apple experience. You want to really get creeped out, spend some time in an Apple store. Crowds of blank-eyed consumer-zombies lining up to buy $40 mouse pads and $20 plastic telephone covers without blinking. Staffed by "geniuses", all named Jason (every one a clone of the actor who plays the "I'm a Mac" character) who will condescendingly blame you for whatever problem you're having with your iWhatever - but only if you have an appointment. The only tool in their technical toolbox is wiping your phone and re-installing the O/S, the universal troubleshooting and repair technique for all things Apple.
 All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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keith
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Re:Why Apple users have switched to Dell/Windows! Will DAWs be next?
2013/02/04 09:42:13
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Rain
So if there one company which is all about hype these days (not actually because they are hype but because they're trying so hard to look cool), Microsoft gets the award.
Man, the MS surface commercials are the most annoying freaking thing on TV... this piece of crap ad: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iB5txqIl8jQ ... click click click... click click click... click click click click click click click... WWWAAHHHH WAAHHHHH WAAHHH WAAHHH... click click WWAAAAHH... click click WAAHHHH ... click click click click click click WWWWWAAAAAAAHHHHHHH.... SSSSTTTOOOOOPPPPPPPPPP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Just freaking STOP!!!!!!! Please!!!! My God, who comes up with that crap?
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Bajan Blue
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Re:Why Apple users have switched to Dell/Windows! Will DAWs be next?
2013/02/04 10:17:21
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My Apple experience.
After many years of not giving in to the Apple hype, I ended up buying a Mac G5 - the piece of software I wanted to get into at the time was Mac only.
The performance and reliability quite shocked me - I think I had started to believe the hype about how they never went wrong! Within the first few months it seemed a constant round of operating system upgrades / reinstalls etc. And in general it just seemed so sluggish compared to the equivalent PC - well sort of equivalent - price wise it was about three times the price.
Anyway after only a short period of time, the software I wanted to use was ported to PC, so I went back to PC.
I still have the G5 - sits in the corner looking very pretty and of course always impressed people who know nothing! - never really used it in all these years - it is beautifully made, looks sexy but in use I found it to be a horribly overpriced piece of c**p!!
Wind forward a number of years and my wife was given an iPad when she purchased her new car.
It was given to me as she had no use for it - actually I have no use for it either in reality - the iPad seems little more than a toy to me and I have yet to find ANYTHING it can do better than my Asus netbook (which would have cost probably half what an iPad cost back then). Also you can repair PC stuff - I expect if / WHEN the iPad goes wrong it will be straight into the bin!
Nigel
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Bub 
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Re:Why Apple users have switched to Dell/Windows! Will DAWs be next?
2013/02/04 10:44:47
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My only experience with Mac has been on the business side, connecting multifunction devices to print and scan on customers networks. It was always a nightmare and I tried for years to learn how to do it and couldn't. We always had one guy who did nothing but Mac installs, and he'd basically just get on the phone with the manufacturer and they would walk him through it.
I was also involved in a system installation once that was an incredible nightmare. Our Mac expert tried to set up this system and could never get it running. We ended up losing the account, and it was a huge one. Can't say who it was, but I love their Thin Mints and Peanut Butter Patties. OMG. ;) And this guy knew is stuff. He installed every Mac in every school in the entire state. IIRC, he actually worked directly for them.
I was in a training class he put on one time. We had 10 multi-function machines there and we had to connect them for print and scanning. He never could get the Mac stuff running so we never did training on it. Thank God they closed my office and laid me off before I had to go do a Mac install on my own. Heh. The bad thing about it was, you had to buy a Post Script board to put in the machines to make them print properly from a Mac driver. Some of those boards were $1,000 bucks, and the damn salesmen would always forget to add it in to the price of the machine, the customer would call back complaining that they couldn't print to their brand new machine, and service would end up eating the cost and put it in for free. BS, but that's what happened.
"I pulled the head off Elvis, filled Fred up to his pelvis, yaba daba do, the King is gone, and so are you."
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Jim Roseberry
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Re:Why Apple users have switched to Dell/Windows! Will DAWs be next?
2013/02/04 11:44:49
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I was neutral about Apple until they took Logic from me. You mean "Black Monday" I remember that day well... 
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John
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Re:Why Apple users have switched to Dell/Windows! Will DAWs be next?
2013/02/04 13:29:35
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Jim Roseberry
I was neutral about Apple until they took Logic from me.
You mean "Black Monday"
I remember that day well...
Jim, they got you too? It wasn't just Logic. I had the Logic Control and the AMT 8. I had also bough Sounddiver to go along with Logic. Not to mention having to learn a very difficult program. All that went down the drain. Apple's solution was all I had to do was buy a Mac. From that day on I looked a any Apple product through the eyes of one that had been screwed by them. Needless to say I have no love for anything Apple. Fortunately I had not abandoned Cakewalk and simply moved more completely over to it. I did have a fling with Cubase for awhile but I came back to CW. The adventure with Cubase was useful in that I had a true comparison between the two. In the end I stopped with Cubase SX 3. I have had Sonar as my main DAW ever since. We have gone through a lot of changes but its been a good time here and with Sonar. I was even on the Cubase forum. Not a fun place to be. I have aways upgraded every version of CW's top software since Professional 8. Pro Audio 9 was a great DAW.
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backwoods
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Re:Why Apple users have switched to Dell/Windows! Will DAWs be next?
2013/02/04 16:05:16
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Jeff Evans
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Re:Why Apple users have switched to Dell/Windows! Will DAWs be next?
2013/02/04 16:26:04
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John I feel your pain. I had invested a lot into Logic right up to V5.5 and they just dropped PC support which was not nice I agree.
I have got Unitor 8 though and I am sure the same applies to AMT 8 as well, they both still work perfectly in a PC environment. The drivers are still fine.
Specs i5-2500K 3.5 Ghz - 8 Gb RAM - Win 7 64 bit - ATI Radeon HD6900 Series - RME PCI HDSP9632 - Steinberg Midex 8 Midi interface - Faderport 8- Studio One V4 - iMac 2.5Ghz Core i5 - Sierra 10.12.6 - Focusrite Clarett thunderbolt interface Poor minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas -Eleanor Roosevelt
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WDI
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Re:Why Apple users have switched to Dell/Windows! Will DAWs be next?
2013/02/04 16:31:26
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I like my iToys. Lol!
Seem to do what they're supposed to do well. Like some of the features apple offers on them like iCloud for my music and integration between them and apple tv. Video always plays flawless more then I can say on any pc no matter how powerful. Retina Displays far better then I've seen from any competitors.
But my experience has always been pc. And I'm not a professional so I don't know other then that video is nothing more then a commercial.
One thing I constantly see on this forum though is talk about how hard it is for Cakewalk because of all different hardware software configurations of the pc market. Seems to me one advantage apple has. Also, as a consumer makes it easy to get a good simple solution without all the fuss. For most hobbiest which it seems the majority of users an iMac running GarageBand or logic would suffice. The cost start at 1,299 plus another 300 for logic. That's not too bad if it works without fuss. But yeah, it can easily get pretty expensive. But if your a professional making your living off it so can a pc and really professionals I'm sure drop much much more money in thier computer.
Agree with bitflipper about store. It's funny. Though they always been good to me. And support doesn't appear to be outsourced which always leads to bad support. Though I do always pay for AppleCare support up front. But if that's what it takes to supply good support I'm happy with paying.
Sonar 7 PE Windows XP Pofessional (SP3) MSI K8N Neo4-F AMD Athlon 64 3500+ 2 GB PC 3200 Ram RME Fireface 800 Edirol FA-66 CM Labs MotorMix Old stuff: ARJO
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John
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Re:Why Apple users have switched to Dell/Windows! Will DAWs be next?
2013/02/04 16:44:05
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Jeff Evans
John I feel your pain. I had invested a lot into Logic right up to V5.5 and they just dropped PC support which was not nice I agree.
I have got Unitor 8 though and I am sure the same applies to AMT 8 as well, they both still work perfectly in a PC environment. The drivers are still fine.
Would this apply to Windows 8 64 bit? The AMT 8 didn't work with Vista 64 bit. Jeff thank you for saying you sympathize.
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Jeff Evans
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Re:Why Apple users have switched to Dell/Windows! Will DAWs be next?
2013/02/04 17:04:48
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Yes sorry John. I was referring to XP and 32 bit systems. So I am sure you are right. Oh well. When I upgrade to either Win 7 or Win 8 64 bit myself I guess I will be on the lookout for a new midi interface too. In fact I will need new everything!
Specs i5-2500K 3.5 Ghz - 8 Gb RAM - Win 7 64 bit - ATI Radeon HD6900 Series - RME PCI HDSP9632 - Steinberg Midex 8 Midi interface - Faderport 8- Studio One V4 - iMac 2.5Ghz Core i5 - Sierra 10.12.6 - Focusrite Clarett thunderbolt interface Poor minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas -Eleanor Roosevelt
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Sacalait
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Re:Why Apple users have switched to Dell/Windows! Will DAWs be next?
2013/02/04 18:47:41
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I have an iPhone and an iPad. Both are reliable and useful. But I DON'T like how you have to go through hoops to move data between devices. And I'm not going to go with a MacBook any time in the foreseeable future. I think folks in graphics/music design have switched because of processing power- as the video indicated. Macs used to have the advantage- but not any more.
www.pershingwells.com www.facebook.com/pershingwells Sonar Platinum, PC- Intel i7-4770K w/16 Gig RAM Windows 8.1, Solid State Drive and eSATA drives, Mytek, RME UFX, RME Multiface II, Roland VS700, A-Designs Pacifica, UA LA610, Presonus RC500. A-Designs Hammer EQ, DBX, AKG, Neumann, Roland, JBL, Fender, Gibson, G&L, Marshall, Korg, Martin, Shure, Electrovoice, Yamaha, Chameleon Labs comps.
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John T
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Re:Why Apple users have switched to Dell/Windows! Will DAWs be next?
2013/02/04 18:52:26
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You know, just a few million more threads about this, and we'll be able to declare a clear winner. BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR! You might miss these discussions.
http://johntatlockaudio.com/Self-build PC // 16GB RAM // i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz // Nofan 0dB cooler // ASUS P8-Z77 V Pro motherboard // Intel x-25m SSD System Drive // Seagate RAID Array Audio Drive // Windows 10 64 bit // Sonar Platinum (64 bit) // Sonar VS-700 // M-Audio Keystation Pro 88 // KRK RP-6 Monitors // and a bunch of other stuff
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John T
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Re:Why Apple users have switched to Dell/Windows! Will DAWs be next?
2013/02/04 18:53:34
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Anyway, for my money, Spider-Man would definitely beat Hulk in a fight. I know, it's counter-intuitive. But think it through.
http://johntatlockaudio.com/Self-build PC // 16GB RAM // i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz // Nofan 0dB cooler // ASUS P8-Z77 V Pro motherboard // Intel x-25m SSD System Drive // Seagate RAID Array Audio Drive // Windows 10 64 bit // Sonar Platinum (64 bit) // Sonar VS-700 // M-Audio Keystation Pro 88 // KRK RP-6 Monitors // and a bunch of other stuff
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Rain
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Re:Why Apple users have switched to Dell/Windows! Will DAWs be next?
2013/02/04 18:56:02
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FWIW, I was furious when Apple dropped PC support, so I can only imagine how it was for people who were also using eMagic hardware.
I kept Logic 5.5 for as long as I could run it, but eventually ended using Sonar exclusively.
There was more than just Logic to motivate me to finally move to Mac when I did. That being said, as a Mac user, I totally see the benefit of the tight integration. In fact, that's one of the things I used to appreciate about Cakewalk on the PC - they worked closely w/ Microsoft. Apple/Logic bring that to another level.
In a link posted by Backwood above, the OP mentions that Logic doesn't seem to outperform Live, which is at odds w/ my own experience, not just in terms of plug-in/track count (which obviously accounts for much) but in terms of user experience and transparent integration w/ the OS and hardware. That stuff really makes a difference, IMHO.
I can't imagine a PC version of Logic working 100% as well for that very simple reason. It has nothing to do w/ which is the better machine.
TCB - Tea, Cats, Books...
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Splat
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Re:Why Apple users have switched to Dell/Windows! Will DAWs be next?
2013/02/04 18:56:02
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But Spiderman is quite good in handling threads....
Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed. @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38. Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.4,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),4 x Seagate ST31500341AS (mirrored),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5.Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1.Addictive Keys,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist.Acronis True Image 2014.
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Splat
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Re:Why Apple users have switched to Dell/Windows! Will DAWs be next?
2013/02/04 19:44:06
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Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed. @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38. Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.4,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),4 x Seagate ST31500341AS (mirrored),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5.Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1.Addictive Keys,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist.Acronis True Image 2014.
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stevee9c6
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Re:Why Apple users have switched to Dell/Windows! Will DAWs be next?
2013/02/04 21:38:51
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I was asking about the statement regarding intel soldering their chips to the MB. I didn't think this sounded correct so I researched it a bit. Apparently this is a widely circulated net rumour based on a "leaked future roadmap". Intel itself has stated that they intend to use non-soldered chips in desktops for the forseeable future. Workstations are a tiny fraction of intel's market apparently. This would be a death blow to custom builders and enthusiasts. It certainly may come to pass in the future but perhaps AMD and or a consortium of Motherboard builders will step into the void.
post edited by stevee9c6 - 2013/02/04 22:07:55
Steve www.stevestallingsmusic.com
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AndyDavis
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Re:Why Apple users have switched to Dell/Windows! Will DAWs be next?
2013/02/04 21:53:39
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http://arstechnica.com/ga...the-forseeable-future/ TL;DR: “Intel remains committed to the growing desktop enthusiast and channel markets, and will continue to offer socketed parts in the LGA package for the foreseeable future for our customers and the Enthusiast DIY market. However, Intel cannot comment on specific long-term product roadmap plans at this time, but will disclose more details later per our normal communication process."
Don't ask the question if you cannot live with the answer.
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Jim Roseberry
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Re:Why Apple users have switched to Dell/Windows! Will DAWs be next?
2013/02/04 22:10:19
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Jim, they got you too? Myself... and numerous clients. I was a big fan of Logic early on. Non-destructive MIDI quantization (and other features) was revolutionary back ~12 years ago.
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carlosagm79
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Re:Why Apple users have switched to Dell/Windows! Will DAWs be next?
2013/02/05 04:32:21
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The guy that changed the world was Billy...starting with his Win 95...
WIntel had been always ahead in technology(of course is more open and versatile)... that's the reason why Mac had to put some Intel Processors on their systems, for me, was a ¨declaration of their weakness¨..
The icrap thing is a fashion, trendy stuff for mass consumers...of course their not bad at all...but not the best either, that's another point..
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Mystic38
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Re:Why Apple users have switched to Dell/Windows! Will DAWs be next?
2013/02/05 15:05:09
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Well I know you are a well known Apple fan Rain so this is mostly in jest.. but that 5 year old macbook pro lost about $1500 in value and the two pc's about $800 combined? :D
Rain
When I bought our 2 new MacBook Pros, my wife sold her 5 years old MacBook (not pro) which needed minor repair for... $400.
The two PCs I had used during those last 5 years and which were gathering dust in the basement had to be taken to a recycling facility. Cost me gas + access to site to get rid of them.
So as far as $ is concerned...
HPE-580T with i7-950, 8G, 1.5T, ATI6850, Win7/64, Motu 828 III Hybrid, Motu Midi Express, Sonar Platinum, Komplete 9, Ableton Live 9 & Push 2, Melodyne Editor and other stuff, KRK VXT8 Monitors Virus Ti2 Polar, Fantom G6, Yamaha S70XS, Novation Nova, Novation Nova II, Korg MS2000, Waldorf Micro Q, NI Maschine Studio, TC-VoiceLive Rack, 2012 Gibson Les Paul Standard, 2001 Gibson Les Paul DC, 1999 Fender Am Hardtail Strat, Fender Blues Jr, Orange TH30/PPC212, Tak EF360GF, one mic, no talent.
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Rain
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Re:Why Apple users have switched to Dell/Windows! Will DAWs be next?
2013/02/05 15:26:14
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Mystic38
Well I know you are a well known Apple fan Rain so this is mostly in jest.. but that 5 year old macbook pro lost about $1500 in value and the two pc's about $800 combined? :D
If you can build two dedicated DAW for $800, I'd like to know where you get your parts from. ;) Regular MacBook weren't that expensive, actually. And it still covered almost 1/3 of the upgrade to a brand new MacBook Pro. And if I were to upgrade right now - well, MBP similar to mine are going for +/- $700 on eBay. Seems like decent upgrade money to me. I know it's in jest, but I felt compelled to reply because when people say Mac are expensive, they tend to not take the resell value into account.
TCB - Tea, Cats, Books...
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John T
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Re:Why Apple users have switched to Dell/Windows! Will DAWs be next?
2013/02/05 15:29:06
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It's true, for matching specs, Macs are about the same as PCs. They just have a really limited range of specs, and no real low end options. Bear in mind you have to include things like the displays in this.
http://johntatlockaudio.com/Self-build PC // 16GB RAM // i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz // Nofan 0dB cooler // ASUS P8-Z77 V Pro motherboard // Intel x-25m SSD System Drive // Seagate RAID Array Audio Drive // Windows 10 64 bit // Sonar Platinum (64 bit) // Sonar VS-700 // M-Audio Keystation Pro 88 // KRK RP-6 Monitors // and a bunch of other stuff
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WDI
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Re:Why Apple users have switched to Dell/Windows! Will DAWs be next?
2013/02/05 15:31:59
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I was interested in high end Mac pro but was totally turned off by the price. So I went and tried to configure a high end pc with similar specs and cost was right up there with the Mac pro.
Sonar 7 PE Windows XP Pofessional (SP3) MSI K8N Neo4-F AMD Athlon 64 3500+ 2 GB PC 3200 Ram RME Fireface 800 Edirol FA-66 CM Labs MotorMix Old stuff: ARJO
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backwoods
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Re:Why Apple users have switched to Dell/Windows! Will DAWs be next?
2013/02/05 15:33:38
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PC on par with Mbps is not high end sorry
Mac does have retina and thunderbolt though.
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WDI
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Re:Why Apple users have switched to Dell/Windows! Will DAWs be next?
2013/02/05 15:36:17
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backwoods
PC on par with Mbps is not high end sorry
Not sure if this is in response to my post but to clearify I wrote Mac pro.
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Rain
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Re:Why Apple users have switched to Dell/Windows! Will DAWs be next?
2013/02/05 15:40:47
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Just for the sake of it... I mentioned in another thread that my brother-in-law's studio was still running on an old 2004 G4. Could be a year or two older than this actually... Anyway, while I was on ebay, I did a quick search and managed to find one of those old G4. Prices seems to range between $500 up to $800! http://www.ebay.com/itm/A...mp;hash=item564b1c3be8
TCB - Tea, Cats, Books...
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SuperG
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Re:Why Apple users have switched to Dell/Windows! Will DAWs be next?
2013/02/05 19:21:35
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slartabartfast
What ideas has Apple come up with outside of very good marketing?
Don't sell a product that will bring in less than 40% profit.
+1 That's been their model since the the birth of the Mac. They spend a ton on marketing - need to recoup. Apple had some mojo going with seeding the school market years ago, which has translated into sales in the artsy-fartsy media producer market. Unfortunately, *that* market is now competitive (how many vfx companies can you count in the credits of a block-buster movie?), and coolness has to compete with the bottom line. Apple, can't compete with the likes of Dell - their margins would price them out of the market. This why you see all the ridiculous patent applications and lawsuits from Apple - they're looking to make up the difference in technology tolls. Screw 'em, I say.
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