How is mass marketing creating anything except a market? The GUI was invented by Xerox as was the mouse. Personal computers were around before Apple even existed. 

Marketing is not the same as inventing. The fact that they took off the shelf parts and bundled them as a somewhat complete product should make it clear. Where were the parts going to before Apple got hold of them?  

John T


I dunno, I can't really be bothered arguing this one. If you think something like the Lisa was just a matter of shoving a load of components in a box and doing a nice advertising campaign, you just plain don't know what you're talking about.

I didn't say anything about the Lisa which failed. Clearly they didn't steal or copy enough from others to make it work well enough to get anyone to buy it.

For one, I see Apple needing to get knocked down a couple of pegs in the same manner that Microsoft got so concern their behavior as a corporation. I'm no MS fanboy, never have been, and always took delight whenever they got caught with their dirty laundry in public. Apple, however, always got a pass from the brickbats because they were second-bannana and if their fanboys enjoyed grabbing their ankles, we figured why not let Apple let them have it - they deserve it.

But now, Apple is simply trying to muscle other companies in the same fashion MS used to. The law is for sale here in the US to the highest corporate bidder - but I'm figuring that at some point EU is going to get tired of all the (patently) ridiculous patents coming from here. It's like if you can't invent something substantial, troll 'em with patent threats. US businesses like Apple are worried - we're sinking into a service model economy, but business here wants to keep the same profits as before with a reduced labor and material outlay, but it won't work. 

This is why apple isn't so hot outside of the US - they ain't buying the marketing hype and the value doesn't match the price. Fondleslabs and iphones aren't going to be the in-thing forever, and Apple's PC's are a bit bereft these days...

Apple products are great.
Microsoft products are great.

You guys...are great :)

Apple have just moved a chunk of their manufacturing back to the US as it happens. Most of the iMacs are now put together in the US.

Apple has always made great products.  I was mad that they took my Logic off of Windows but I got over it.   The only reason I don't own an Apple computer is that there have always been for less expensive alternatives.  I own an iPOD that I use for backing tracks on my gig because all the accessories such as my Alesis Mixer with iPod doc are made for Apple products.  I'll be getting a pad soon but for what I need a Kindle or Nexus will do fine.  If I needed all the hardcore iPad music apps I'd get an Apple iPad but I do that stuff on my Windows laptop.  These are just tools. No more, no less.

slartabartfast

Meanwhile Intel has announced that future CPU chips will need to be soldered to the motherboard. That should pretty much guarantee that the flexibility in choices for workstations will be severely limited and that specialized computers will cost much more to build and buy. Instead of building a dozen motherboard models with an inexpensive socket capable of running a dozen or more chips, the MB makers will have to front the cost of CPU's and figure out how not to get stuck with leftover stock. The usual solution is to make fewer models and aim the ones you make for sale at the general market. Models with limited specialty demand will be rare and expensive. Think Ford vs Ferrari. 

I have only owned a computer,of any kind,for almost 2 years,at age 48,first a del xps[which I use the most]and then a parts picked,store assembled desktop.


This future cpu/motherboard scenario,sounds horrifying,so I hope the desktop remains good for a good while yet.


Iv'e never owned an MP3 player,and comparing my 24bit 44.1/48KHz files,with soundclouds 128 kbps stream,I'm glad I never did.


I was initially told,"you can ONLY make music,with an apple machine,but in April 2011,both my laptop,and desktop,worked out cheaper,than 1 MacBookPro 15" with a 7,200 rpm HDD[stock is 5,400,same as this years xps!],however Rain,is correct about mac resale value.


There is a large no. of people waiting on the supposed new macpro desktop,somehow I think,it[if it EVER eventuates]will be vastly different to the expandable machine they're hoping for.


I wouldn't say no to mac mini,if they were the same price,as in the US,but here...no.
Bob

dan le


One thing that I have noticed that a lot of people who use Apple products are usually educated, make good money and think of themselves as progressive politically, but Apple is making all this money off those people and employing very few Americans in the process.

I find this disgusting and hard to accept.

sincerely,

dan le

I wouldn't say progressive politically, nope. My brother is about as conservative as you can get without digging up Mussolini's grave. The Apple phenomenon can be described in one word: 'poser'. That isn't to say that there aren't serious folks using macintoshes, but that they're in the minority. (Most likely the programmers selling software to same said rubes..) For most, the decision to go Apple is as fashion accessory - something to brag about between begging someone for help in setting up their network and printer settings...

This has just become a thread for people to work out their angst in now, hasn't it? Some weird repository for bitterness some imaginary tribe of other people. Just the other week, true story, someone quite seriously said to me "most feminists own apple macs". The stuff in this thread isn't significantly less comical. 

dan le


One thing that I have noticed that a lot of people who use Apple products are usually educated, make good money and think of themselves as progressive politically, but Apple is making all this money off those people and employing very few Americans in the process.

I find this disgusting and hard to accept.

sincerely,

dan le

Without wanting to go into the whole "generalize about Apple users" thing, it's hard not to notice the difference in reaction between progressive types at the respective "scandals" of Microsoft and Apple. Remember when Microsoft was being hauled over the coals by the EU for supposedly "anti-competition" practices (like....er....bundling their own browser with Windows)? OMG Microsoft was "everything that is wrong about capitalism" and a "greedy corporation which wants to dominate the world." You could not move online for references to "Micro$$oft." Fast forward a few years and the stories are coming out about Chinese factories making iPhones whose workers were throwing themselves off of the factory roof. And yet Apple's good name survived through the whole thing. I don't recall any young progressives boycotting Apple or calling them evil capitalists. And that's because it's such a popular brand among that demographic. They're seen as cool & hip and they are the first choice of cool & hip artists and designers everywhere. Therefore they can do no wrong.   

I'm not saying everyone who uses Apple products belongs in that demographic, because they quite clearly don't. I have professional photographer friends who swear by them, and my own dad who's in his 70's (and a staunch right-leaning libertarian) switched over to Mac a couple of years ago and loves them. They're obviously great machines. But you have to admit that there is "that" certain demographic who buys them purely for image, while using them for nothing more than browsing the internet, watching movies and listening to music. I just don't see the point of shelling out all that extra cash when you can do those things on a comparable PC for a lot cheaper.

Rain

SuperG

I wouldn't say progressive politically, nope. My brother is about as conservative as you can get without digging up Mussolini's grave. The Apple phenomenon can be described in one word: 'poser'. That isn't to say that there aren't serious folks using macintoshes, but that they're in the minority. (Most likely the programmers selling software to same said rubes..) For most, the decision to go Apple is as fashion accessory - something to brag about between begging someone for help in setting up their network and printer settings...

I'm sure you have tons of studies to back that one up. 


Same studies that show that PC users are a bunch of geeks who worship Xena the warrior princess, never had intercourse, eat nothing but pizza pocket and think that Manowar is the hottest band in the world. ;)

I've known many, many, many who fitted the above-description, to the tee, btw... Still, I don't think I fell in that category, as a PC user.


As for Mac, I see them in every studio and big venues, everywhere I go. If posers also use them, that's their problem. ;)

PC users don't really fit any mold...there isn't really any fanboys in the PC world except maybe for professional marketers, and no one pays attention to them. We have no problem kicking the industry in the teeth in order to extract more from them, surely as they'd like to extract more from ourr wallets. Apple, however, occupies a niche in desktop territory and provides a fat target for criticism - and of course they deserve it as i pointed out earlier. 
The reason you find macs here and there in studios is because, well, the creative community has always been individualistic and is always trying to make a statement. In fact, you're more likely to find mac in the creative community than in the general public. Absolutely nothing wrong with that - but it is what it is. If you're trying to make a statement or strike a pose, that's what you're doing. Your choice of computer has little to do with any innate talent, it may amplify it, but it certainly can't create it.

In short, folks are welcome to their macs for whatever reason they choose to purchase them for. Just don't try to cook up a justifying rationale and pawn it on someone - there isn't any.

I think they reason people think that 'progressive's are ignoring Apple is because the labels have stayed the same but the political realities, tastes, and sensitivities have changed over time. I know people who think Obama is to the right of Reagan, given his foreign policies, and feel that his domestic programs are simply sops to leftish hangers-on, while giving away the store to wallstreet and the military industrial complex. Things like, you can be gay (sure, fine. ok..), but we can steal your email anytime we want and take your cash if we think you're a drug dealer, or maybe we might just take it anyway because it would cost you more in lawyers to recover it... one-step forward, two steps back..

It's a theory anyway - and it leaves little for the right except the bug-nuts crazies, alluded to by some on the right trying to extricate themselves from said crazies.

SuperG

Rain

SuperG

PC users don't really fit any mold...there isn't really any fanboys in the PC world except maybe for professional marketers, and no one pays attention to them. We have no problem kicking the industry in the teeth in order to extract more from them, surely as they'd like to extract more from ourr wallets. Apple, however, occupies a niche in desktop territory and provides a fat target for criticism - and of course they deserve it as i pointed out earlier. 
The reason you find macs here and there in studios is because, well, the creative community has always been individualistic and is always trying to make a statement. In fact, you're more likely to find mac in the creative community than in the general public. Absolutely nothing wrong with that - but it is what it is. If you're trying to make a statement or strike a pose, that's what you're doing. Your choice of computer has little to do with any innate talent, it may amplify it, but it certainly can't create it.

In short, folks are welcome to their macs for whatever reason they choose to purchase them for. Just don't try to cook up a justifying rationale and pawn it on someone - there isn't any.

Molds are just molds. There are PC users who fit the stereotypical image just like there's people who really worship Apple. People are people. PC users aren't usually fanboys of a brand, obviously, but some certainly meet the rest of the fanboy job description, nevertheless. 

 
Also, you don't find Macs here and there in studio - you find them in the vast majority of pro recording studios.  They are simply the de facto standard. It has nothing to do w/ posing... When you have a studio full of analog equipment and a humongous mixing board, incredible rooms and a collection of mics to die for, you don't have to rely on your computer to impress the customers...

Anybody trying to "make a statement" as you put it would probably be using a PC and making commercials for Dell. ;)

Go Linux!

it's the inevitable backlash. Apple bashers have becomes as unreasonably irrational as the cult of apple worship. As you have stated , Apple is no more guilty of exploitative business practices than anyone else. Doesn't make it any more or less right, but illustrates the perspective one will look at these issues from is highly based on pre-conceived notions and prone to selective outrage.