Hmm. If there are people attempting to make music for films, and it actually gets used in films, then it seems to me they're doing okay. The argument that people who don't read music are incompetent hacks withers pretty fast in the face of the staggeringly long list of amazing musicians who can't.

I'm not sure where you're going with this.

It would make miles more sense to have the demo out at the same time as the initial marketing push, though, wouldn't it? Who's going to know about now other than regular forum visitors?

On the other hand, I'm not criticising the decision to have the developers work on the updates and quick fixes instead.

Well, Sonar is very well-regarded in the wider audio world, though it's easy to forget that if you come to this forum a lot.

jm24



Now, I think, we are past the point of updates for this numbered version.

I hope not - it still doesn't work!!

I'd just like to point out that no one here knows definitively that "we are past the point of updates for X1" or that "X2 is around the corner" or "X2 will be out soon". It's simply loose conjecture based on past precedents which have been increasingly shucked in recent months and years.

That's what I'm finding, yeah.

I've had a couple of recent experiences of having to go back to 8.5 to work with old projects. The first time a few of months ago, I will admit to thinking "Hmm, you know, this is really comfortable and nice". But since all the quick fixes have rolled out, the more recent visit was like breaking into a tomb.

I don't think "many" is an exaggeration. The vast majority of experienced SONAR users do not comment at all on this forum, so among that demographic the forum is definitely not "a cross section of the SONAR user base".

I also do not think 'many' is an exaggeration. I almost never participate on this forum, mostly due to the infantile bickering. I did feel strongly enough about this release that I began to participate on the forum to exchange thoughts and concerns about X1. Quite a few more than 5 people who have used Cakewalk products for years have said they are staying or back on 8.5.3.

For those of you who have to silence any voice that criticizes the product, ask yourselves why... it does much more harm than good. I don't go around trying to silence those who are happy with the product - I am genuinely happy for them! Besides, Cakewalk can defend itself, and their actions in the form of how they build future versions will speak much more loudly than our combined voices on this forum. I will answer equally loudly with the voice of my wallet if they get it right. I will not pay for one more version with a bunch of new whiz bang plugins, a bunch of old bugs, and crippled functionality that never should have been removed.

D.

Meh, I find the OP's train of thought to be flawed and exaggerated for negative impact.

The latest update for X1 is the most stable SONAR I've had since 8.5.3. 

I think a lot of this position comes from X1's major paradigm shift. It's SO different that people like the OP want to find reasons to give it a thumbs-down without admitting that they are just fearful of change.

At $99, it was a no-brainer. You can run 8.5.3 alongside it while you up-train (which isn't nearly as bad as you think) and some of the includes: pro-channel, Session Instruments... are worth the upgrade price alone.

As for the OP's original point of graphics problems: I upgraded my GPU after getting really tired of X1's "bigness". Sure, it meant dropping more than $99 (a valid point) but I experienced performance upgrades across the board in every program. I didn't even think my GPU was outdated but I'm not complaining about a faster rig.

As for the demo being so late...sure if you're that cheap that $99 is a true sticking point sure it was definitely late. But by that point you already have it in for X1...sheesh SusanG (tho I love her) is a Reaper user now. I doubt very much an upgrade alone is gonna make someone do a double-super-backflip to another DAW again. Those are big switches to do even if you own both programs. I think that argument is lame, but sure hold out for another version, things can only get better.

If I was going to make a real "deal breaker" argument, it's that X1 isn't light enough. I run Reaper on my laptop because it is a super small install with a quick and painless "ready to work" status. Of course, I move things back to SONAR when I can because Reaper's workflow and UI makes me wanna stick cocktail straws through my eyeballs. 

And, I'm not without my wishlist for new features and areas of improvement but hell I've got that list for literally EVERY program I use...with perhaps none more than MSWord of all things (seriously every time I use it I'm like "what the frak...it's a WORD PROCESSOR how do you do it wrong?!)

If it's any consolation, after the rough launch and the wait for critical updates (another valid point) I find X1's improvements to be near universally better for my workflow. But, if the idea of learning the new key commands bugs you....then sure I suppose it's too pricey and not ready for prime time....sure.

...wicked

If I was going to make a real "deal breaker" argument, it's that X1 isn't light enough. I run Reaper on my laptop because it is a super small install with a quick and painless "ready to work" status. Of course, I move things back to SONAR when I can because Reaper's workflow and UI makes me wanna stick cocktail straws through my eyeballs. 

The "deal breaker" for myself and many others is that X!'s price is slowing or stopping production to re-learn things you've been doing for years.  Also many have reported that after re-learning everything the workflow is still seriously flawed.  The only thing you get for all this showstopping is a channel strip that, although may be good, is not better than channel strips I already have.  So really they are asking me to stop production for the very slight convenience of having it built in to the mixer.  IMO staying with 8.5 is a no brainer for me.  There is nothing I need in X1 and I'm certainly not willing to impact my production for it.

Brandon Ryan [Cakewalk
]

I'd just like to point out that no one here knows definitively that "we are past the point of updates for X1" or that "X2 is around the corner" or "X2 will be out soon". It's simply loose conjecture based on past precedents which have been increasingly shucked in recent months and years.

Since X1 still has a lot of problems for some users, and a lot of folks are unhappy with X1 - why not release X1.5 as the next major update at no charge, after X1c is released.  Some folks are holding out until X2, thinking it will be out this October or December.  So perhaps if they can know now if X1 won't be abandoned in the condition it's in, they will most likely upgrade.  I don't have X1 but from what I'm reading from other users, it doesn't sound like something I want if it isn't reliable.  That is why it makes sense for a lot of folks to wait for the next version but if they knew now that more fixes and updates are on the way, they won't be afraid to upgrade.

syntheticpop

Brandon Ryan [Cakewalk
]

I'd just like to point out that no one here knows definitively that "we are past the point of updates for X1" or that "X2 is around the corner" or "X2 will be out soon". It's simply loose conjecture based on past precedents which have been increasingly shucked in recent months and years.

Since X1 still has a lot of problems for some users, and a lot of folks are unhappy with X1 - why not release X1.5 as the next major update at no charge, after X1c is released.  Some folks are holding out until X2, thinking it will be out this October or December.  So perhaps if they can know now if X1 won't be abandoned in the condition it's in, they will most likely upgrade.  I don't have X1 but from what I'm reading from other users, it doesn't sound like something I want if it isn't reliable.  That is why it makes sense for a lot of folks to wait for the next version but if they knew now that more fixes and updates are on the way, they won't be afraid to upgrade.

The problem I see is that I just don't know that "a lot" of folks are unhappy. Some are. But there seem be many that prefer X1, or find it an acceptable evolution at the very least.

I also believe X1 is in fact rather reliable at this point (but we are committed to continuing to work to make the SONAR platform ever more reliable). From my own experience it is at least as stable as 8.5 and in some ways it is demonstrably so.

Will SSD make a difference to the performance of X1?

+1 bitfilipper

3 main S-X changes that make me crazy:
  Restricted multiple choices everywhere, sorta, requiring more attention from user, more clicks, eyes away from work
  Reduced flexibility:  modification of colors, smart tools,...
  Less visual feedback: more attention from user
 
These are reflective of the thought that "what is good for a new user, is good for all."
 
Although I have been a student of how people work for decades, I have been more attentive since the release of S-X. I have been observing how they use their tools, and asking questions about how they are stored, and how they prepare for a project. My barber, dentist, surgeon, and artist friends are examples of having all tools for the project immediately available. The mechanic, and general doctor, are examples of having most tools concealed.
 
 
My barber has the most limited number of tools. Almost all are arranged on a table top. The dryer is in a drawer. He is able to quickly see and choose the tool he needs. He does have about 10 pairs of scissors, and a bunch of combs and brushes. But only about 3 of each are on the top of the table.
 
 
My dentist, and surgeon, arrange the tools they will need for the particular work they expect to perform, on a tray. They, or their assistants, will rarely open a drawer to fetch a tool or bit of supplies.
 
 
My artist friends are similar to the dentist since they have more tools than is practical to have immediately at hand. So, they use "templates" that reflect what they think the project will need.
 
 
My mechanic is a bit different: the workbench has the basic tools upon it. A large set of drawers is adjacent to the bench with a multitude of tools and attachments. This is because he cannot assume what will be of use when a car is placed before him.
 
 
My general doctor is similar. Most of her tools are in cabinets and drawers, and many not in the room.
 
 
The new MS office/Sonar paradigm changes are similar to:
 
Barber: To reduce the amount of clutter on the table, the table top has been reduced in size.
ALL tools are now stored in specific drawers. Some of these drawers have trays that will be moved to be able to access the tools beneath.
 
 
Example: ALL scissors are stored in the 2nd drawer. To select pair of scissors requires opening the drawer. Scissors placed on the table top, in order to select a different pair, will automatically be placed in the drawer and the drawer will be closed, requiring opening to use a different pair.
 
 
The same is default for ALL other tools.
 
 
A quick way of changing the configuration of the scissors is to hold the scissors with both hands. This will change the blades to a thinning configuration. Removing the 2nd hand will automatically change the blades to the default straight cut, short blade.
 
 
=====================
 
 
Every hypothesis, art work, business, tool, game, etc., starts with a set of assumptions that determine what follows. These assumptions frame the expectations of what is to happen by the experimenter, the artist, the worker, the player,.... If the initial assumptions are reasonable with respect to the laws of physics and human nature the expectations will be more likely to be realized. And there will be much rejoicing. If not, it is hoped the participants will be flexible enough to learn from the actual results (I. e., discoveries of Teflon, and vulcanization, penicillin,...)
 
 
MS and CW managers appear to have disregarded decades research of how people work, and in specific, graphic user interface design.
 
 
Some of the new assumptions
   New users, and seldom users, are no different than long term users and power users
   Restricted Multiple choice everywhere is preferred
   Color provides no value
   Visual feedback (via toggle buttons) does not improve efficiency
   Most all users use the select tool
   Larger pictures are ???
   Reduced user configurability results in
       less complex code
       fewer programming errors
       lower programming costs  
       lower support costs
  
A result of the assumptions: those wanting to use the draw tool should hold a modifier key, or have less functionality when selected from a multiple choice pop menu.
 
 
Imagine ALL traffic signs to be light grey on grey.  No red, yellow, green, blue. All the same. Would that be more efficient?
 
 
How about a directional signal without a flashing light, and the click sound?
 
 
At least MS office provides for a 1-click button bar in an attempt to appease the long term and power users. Yet they did remove many previously available options. i.e., the toggle for the OL reading pane has been replaced with a drop menu with 3 choices. The button provide a way to click once to get to the button instead of 2 clicks to change the ribbon tab.
 
 
That "many" find the new interface, with its default settings, an improvement is OK. This is an obvious result of CW managers identifying what this group of users finds comfortable. What tools they use most often, their level of confusion caused by color and 1-click buttons, their need for mystery and challenge to search for clues as to where to find the control of current interest.
 
 
I am one of the "many" that find the new interface to have been based upon bad assumptions.
 
 
After 30 plus versions of Sonar development and research and user contribution the existence of S-X is just plain heartbreaking.
 
 
To the "love-it-or-leave-it-get-over-it" crowd I say. You don't get it. And although I wish this type of disappointment upon no one, I know "many" of you will someday have this experience.
To all of you who keep writing, "I think they should fix it before the next release," I say, "Get real! We have been hoping the same thing for more than 9 years.
 
Brandon: You response can be inferred to indicate some fixes are still to come before the next X'd version. And given the astounding break with Sonar Past it is reasonable to think the history of how and when CW products are updated and released may have no relation to what is to come. But even an update in the next month will be essentially no different than the general update cycle of the nearly every previous numbered release of Sonar.
Did I miss any:
Number of numbered Versions, actual versions and year released.
1                                    1     2001
1.02                               2 
1.31                               3 
2                                    4     2002
2.1                                 5 
2.2                                 6 
3                                    7     2003
3.1                                 8 
3.11                               9 
4                                   10    2004
4.01                              11 
4.02                              12 
4.03                              13 
4.04                              14 
5                                   15    2005
5.01                              16 
5.2                                17 
6                                   18    2006
6.0.1                             19 
6.2                                20 
6.2.1                             21 
7                                   22    2007
7.0.1                             23 
7.0.2                             24 
7.0.3                             25 
8                                   26    2008
8.0.1                             27 
8.2.2                             28 
8.3.1                             29 
8.5                                30    2009
8.5.1                             31 
8.5.2                             32 
8.5.3                             33    2010
J

Hallelujah! JM24. You've put into words that which I could not. We disciples are not alone in this wasteland.

The attitude of some of the posters here astonishes me. If Sonar was sonar, air traffic control software, CT scanner sw, national grid code, or any other from which legal action might result should it be buggy or fail, then vastly higher expectations would prevail from both marketers and users. My gripes are not to do with shortcuts or colour specifically, but more with the attitude of sloppyness that bodes ill for the future. If you call X1b 255 stable, the Lord knows what the first edition must have been like. I feel put-out as a full-time professional who's spent 17 years with a product when I'm treated like a 14 year old in his bedroom with nothing better to do than to pay to debug code. The SW industry in my small country would not last a day with that attitude. Smarten-up guys. Like I say, if it's the kid in his room you are selling to, let us know.