Mod Bod

amiller


As I've mentioned before, the last time I experienced such an obvious lack of interest from Roland was just before they dropped the VS2480.  Is this a sign of something terrible to come...like dropping SONAR from their product line? 

If someone else picked them up, it may be the best thing that could happen for us.

 
They could issue shares to raise the collateral to buy the company out of its deal with Roland.
 
Let the users become the owners.
 
Then we could hire back Brandon, Seth, Willy et al, and get our good ol' Cake back just like it was before.
 
I vote 'me' for first CEO...
 
As I thought of the idea
 
 
 

gswitz


@CCLary When you deploy software and have to patch it four times, that is not a victory. Software development is most efficient when no patching is required. Then you save time on branching and merging code. You focus on what's next, not where something went wrong. I think it's a great sign that there aren't lodes of iterative deployments. Deployments are expensive. Regression tests >> User Testing >> Signoffs >> it all adds up. The fewer the releases, the faster the ship can sail.

I completely disagree....

A company that CARES about whether or not it's program is performing "AS ADVERTISED" will IMMEDIATELY 
address the issue(s)  ...not sit back and wait...like Cakewalk does...

There are FAR TOO MANY BUGS in X2a to have waited this long for a patch...at least to address the MAJOR ones...

You can believe that if you want....

But I don't....sorry..no piece of software is ever "right" right out of the gate...
OR ever "right" period for that matter...
THAT WILL NEVER EVER HAPPEN....so patches are a GOOD THING...not a bad...
THAT is why companies like Steinberg, and Presonus, and MOTU, have commited CONTINUOUS resources
to get these patches out ASAP...

and Cakewalk has dropped the ball...EVEN if they come out with X3 next week...
they've STILL dropped the ball..in taking TOO LONG to get the bugs fixed...
and the launch of another iteration of the program will only invite NEW bugs...

And, in case you haven't noticed...the DAW playing field has become QUITE CROWDED,
and the COMPETITION is FIERCE, so honestly, is the company that DELAYS getting the
customers complaints resolved the one that is going to win?  Hmmm...NO...not really...

So, keep on keepin' on....but I can see the writing on the wall...
and unless they do something MAJOR, they certainly will not be 
getting my upgrade money...until some of the MAJOR problems have
been resolved...I'll take my pennies to the companies that ARE providing
CONTINUOUS support...not INTERMITTENT support.

Here's to hoping that CHANGE is in the air...


 

Maybe after the folks at CW are back from the holiday week. 


But really how should I know? 


You guys forget that Boston has just recovered from a very bad time. Its the beginning of the summer season too. I really don't care if it takes CW a little longer to get back to their schedule. 

It's a grey area. I like when we're informed about what's going on. The silent treatment totally kills me. However, we're also blessed that we do have some Baker activity on here where on other sites, you may not see anything from anyone at that company. They read, but they don't get involved. I guess the Bakers spoiled us. I admit to being spoiled also....however, they don't owe us an ounce of anything until they are told to.

Yeah, I have found a few issues with X2. But there are no show stoppers for me to where I need a patch. If there were, Cakewalk would deliver something for us. They have ALWAYS done that when an outbreak of "wtf's" are all posted in one thread. I saw it happen with Sonar 8, I saw it happen with X1 and we saw it with X2. Anything that stops the show or is detrimental gets fixed in a timely fashion even if it's a hot fix. That's commendable in my opinion.

There are a few users that I know of that couldn't even make X1 work until the last patch....some had no luck at all and had things fixed when they tried X2. But this can happen from time to time with any software really. Another thing that really seems to get to me and I don't know why this is....

We get guys that come on here that really think they know everything. Like so much so, they won't even reach out to Sonar support to see if maybe they aren't as smart as they think. I have used support 5 times my whole time being a Cakewalk user. Just about all my issues have been fixed from posters on this forum which is what I try first. That says a lot...and if people would have a little more patience, they may wind up with some things they think are bugs....being fixed because they may not be bugs at all.

But let's get back to these guys that know so much, they'd not even dare to try support. 5 times I've dealt with support and 5 times...I've made a new Baker friend. I know that some people have legit gripes with support so don't think I'm bashing on you if you are one of these people. But 5 times for me...and all were successful.

I've done the phone, I've done email to support, I've done the bug report thing....I'm no one special. Seriously. No one at the Bakery knows of me unless they've read my posts here or helped me personally. What makes me get such incredible support to the point of a Baker mailing me, pm'ing me, support on the phone talking to me for nearly 2 hours...why me and not you that have failed with support? I think people do a little too much complaining around here over actual "doing" in certain situations, don't you?

It's simple really. If you don't like Sonar, how they run their business, how they patch, how they release their products, their tech support, how long they make us wait, how they keep all these secrets, the list goes on and on, right? If a person doesn't like all that and feels the need to vent or complain here or in front of clients, isn't it time to change your weapon of choice?

I love Sonar...imperfections and all yet sometimes I vent about them....but the day I rant to the point of frustration, anger or have to literally create a thread voicing my feelings, is the day I will switch to something else. I don't care how much I may have invested into Sonar. If it doesn't work and I'm no longer interested in waiting for the company to operate like I would like them to, I walk.

I've mentioned in a few other threads that I have been trying some other software. Part of that is because at times, I'm not happy with Sonar. The other part is...I'd be a fool to be in this business and NOT experience all the tools this trade has to offer. There are other great DAWs out there. There is no need for any of us to rant about Cakewalk until you have exhausted every possibility including tech support for your issues. At that point, it's not even worth ranting about. Isn't it better to go buy another DAW and get your work done? To me it's really that simple.

As for a patch, when it's ready, it's ready. I feel for those experiencing problems...but something like take lanes to me isn't a show stopper. Not that they aren't important, but I've survived without them all my life. :)

I doubt we will even see a patch for X2 though because a bud of mine that works for the beta team told me he's already testing X18 Alpha 695.12-841.75 with no testing on X2b or even a mention of it. LOL! Sike. :-Þ 

-Danny

I dont know what all the fuss is about.

I have a couple of issues like the crashing on the master bus in Console docked on monitor 2 but the work around is well easy. I grumble a bit about video support, but again the workaround is easy.

Other than that X2a works just fine for me.

Also, as stated by a couple of members here, why on earth do Cake have to come up here and tell us their internal development workflow? Thats bonkers!

As John says, be patient and good things will happen.

I am not aware of a single 'show stopper' bug in X2a itself.

I DO see threads where some folks have crashes, but I have not seen a single case where Sonar crashes universally on any task it is asked to do.  (if I am incorrect on this point, please someone fire up a new thread, listing system specs and COMPLETE detail on steps that are REPRODUCIBLE where Sonar X2a crashes doing something, and I will do my best to dive in and figure out what is happening).

I have seen where threads reference other threads that mention other threads in a sort of a 'too many people reporting problems I will skip X2a or X2b or Z1 or whatever the next speculative name for the next release may be.  Many of these kinds of posts are from people that do not seem to have bothered to ask for assistance in fixing their issues, they just say that they are tired of all of the problems.  If you are having issues please detail each issue in a separate new post with details.  


I have seen quite a few cases where someone will post a request for assistance, ignore requests for information, and/or just stop participating in the thread, leaving the forum community unable to do anything for them.

I believe X2a is a stable release with some work-flow bugs.  Some number of the bugs that do exist have workarounds and some do not.  Some bugs have been present for more than one release of Sonar, and some are present in some of the new functionality.

So, other than displeasure for some over having to wait for the next release, what's with all of the pitchforks and torches?  As I have stated before, folks complain about patches too soon - blaming incomplete development or testing.  Other folks (and sometimes the same folks) complain as now, about too long between releases.  It can't be both ways without being a no-win situation for Cakewalk.  

Me, I have a functioning X2a that has not crashed since I have installed it.  I'm going to start my day out being musically productive, and keep an eye out for opportunities to assist folks who provide reasonable threads looking for assistance.

Bob Bone

J4R10

So, it's like "pay, like it or not, but shut up"? Or "It's software, of course it's buggy!"? What is wrong with you guys?! If someone is having problems with the software they have paid for, you say it's not ok to "complain"?!

I couldn't agree more - he who pays the piper calls the tune.
 
I've said it countless times before, and I'll say it again - if you pay for your Cakewalk software (or more accurately, the Licence to use it), you have every right to express an opinion about it in here and elsewhere, good or bad, providing you remain civil and don't transgress the TOS. And it's up to Cakewalk whether those opinions remain on this forum, not other members, much as though a few of them like to take on the self-appointed role of forum cop.
 
And here's another thing I've said before - looking to the future, companies like Cakewalk have absolutely no use whatsoever for threads and posts telling them how good their products are. It's by listening to and acting on the criticisms they receive that the product will improve for everyone.
 
 

J4R10

And what comes to Roland/Cakewalk/Sonar, there is definitely something going on and I think there will be big changes in near future...

I get the same feeling.
 
I just hope the change is a change for the good.
 
 

Tom Riggs


X1 is pretty stable for me as well although there are bugs with the undo feature that can be agrivating.  They can be worked around so not show stopping.

Still I am looking forward to an update as cake changed the status of these to development.

Well, I've never heard of any bugs relating to the undo feature, so do you want to share what you perceive as a bug?

Why do I need a B patch?

I have a number of graphical related issues that annoy me quite a bit while trying to get work done. These issues are only evident when using Sonar X2a. Support was enaged months ago and I still have no resolution or idea as to whether they are working on it or not. I feel enough people on this forum have posted about similar graphic issues where it should have gotten enough attention to be addressed by now.

Yeah, I have found a few issues with X2. But there are no show stoppers for me to where I need a patch. If there were, Cakewalk would deliver something for us. They have ALWAYS done that when an outbreak of "wtf's" are all posted in one thread. I saw it happen with Sonar 8, I saw it happen with X1 and we saw it with X2. Anything that stops the show or is detrimental gets fixed in a timely fashion even if it's a hot fix. That's commendable in my opinion.

This is true.  I have my work arounds and things to avoid but there aren't any problems that cause catastrophes for me.

I went back and retested my issues and found that it was introduced with x2a. I removed sonar and reinstalled and they undo issue was not present in the initial release or in the hotfix. Only when I reinstalled the x2a patch did this reappear.

J4R10


"It's simple really. If you don't like Sonar, how they run their business, how they patch, how they release their products, their tech support, how long they make us wait, how they keep all these secrets, the list goes on and on, right? If a person doesn't like all that and feels the need to vent or complain here or in front of clients, isn't it time to change your weapon of choice?"

So, it's like "pay, like it or not, but shut up"? Or "It's software, of course it's buggy!"? What is wrong with you guys?! If someone is having problems with the software they have paid for, you say it's not ok to "complain"?! No emphaty? I understand completely those who use DAW daily to make their living and are frustrated of annoying bugs or crashes they're reporting.

I've had no big issues with X1d. Ok, maybe some, but not very big ones... Example everytime I've exported audio (or bounced track), I have to close and reopen the project or otherwise there will be loud cracks and pops with level meters hitting at 100 during playback. I guess it has something to do with those tens of CPU hungry plugins on project tracks.

So, no big issues with X1, but as a consumer and a Cakewalk customer, I think I have a right to tell here or anywhere my opinions about their product or marketing tactics - the good ones AND the bad ones.

And what comes to Roland/Cakewalk/Sonar, there is definitely something going on and I think there will be big changes in near future...

J4, I'd never dispute the above. What I said if you read my post in full is...if you haven't exhausted all possibilities, I don't see the reason to complain. You know as well as I do that well over half of the complaints we see on here are from people that either think they know everything there is to know about configurations that will NOT let the forum help them, nor will they even try support.
 
To me, that does not give them a reason to complain. I would never say "pay, like it or not and shut-up". If you have a legit problem and have tried everything you can think of, have allowed the power users on this forum the chance to help you and have tried tech support and still failed, you sir, have every right to complain as you see fit. And the extent of how you wish to complain is completely acceptable at that point. But if you just mess around and can't get something right or you never reach out to someone because you think you know it all....is that really fair to yourself or the company? I don't think it is...and that is what the other half of my post was about.
 
That said, I STILL do not think it's wise to create a rant thread because 9 out of 10 times, it will not solve a thing, you will be called a troll, attention seeker, hot-head, and no one will really care. Your best bet at that point is to buy another DAW and see how you fair...or just switch to a tape machine or whatever.
 
Let me let you and everyone else in on a little secret...
 
Because the Bakers DO read this forum, the person that cries out like a human being in a thread just MAY get the attention of a Baker that sends you a PM. I can't tell you how many times that has happened to me as well as my friends on here. Do you think they would waste their time on a hot-head that isn't even willing to try to discuss/work out the problem on the forum? I know I wouldn't if I were them. Kindness as well as patience goes a long way on this forum with both its members that CAN help you as well as the support that hangs behind the scenes.
 
Trust me, people with legit gripes would never hear me bash them. My point is...quite a lot of the banter on here is not legit and everyone knows that. The % of issues with X2 isn't as big as these forum messages lead on. The Bakers know people have multi-accounts and like to stir up stuff. We even know when we see a troll these days. So to those procrastinating about buying Sonar X2 due to what you read on the forum....don't pay attention to everything you read. How one person uses the software and may complain about various bugs...another will use it differently and won't even see them.
 
-Danny

brconflict


My 2 cents on Roland and Cakewalk: If you look back to 1999 and 2000, Roland put out some portable DAW's, one of them (the VS-2480CD) was in direct competition with a super winner that Yamaha released, called the AW4416. I still have one of those Yamaha units, and it STILL performs flawlessly. Roland released a similar DAW, but with some advantages, such as 24 tracks, vs. 16, 96Khz sampling, vs. only 48Khz, and external monitor interface. I've played around with both of those, and they were fierce competition.

Yamaha recently bought Steinberg, giving them Cubase etc. , and Roland bought Cakewalk. Knowing how much these two companies compete in these electronic and software markets, albeit not perfectly apples-to-apples, it suggests to me that the next (X3?) release is going to have a more heavily involved Roland presence. This could be the reason for such delays in X2b, or X3, or any other patches, etc. I'm guess on the latter, totally. 

If what I'm surmising holds truth, then I have a footnote for Roland. As compared to the Yamaha AW4416, your VS-2480CD felt very fragile and plastic. I was too afraid I'd break it if I touched it the wrong way. The AW4416 could take a beating...and mine still does. 

Roland and Cakewalk go back a very long ways. I was hoping with the buy out of CW by Roland I would see more Roland specific integration in Sonar. I have been hoping for this for a very long time. TTS-1 was CW working with Roland to supply Sound Canvas sounds to the DAW. Before it the Virtual Sound Canvas (VSC) that CW bundled with Pro Audio came from Roland. Because for me Roland has had a strong market in sound modules I was hoping for module editors within the DAW. There are lots of areas that Roland could include its technology in Sonar and still leave Sonar a general purpose DAW. 

If instead we get a DAW that is neither fish nor foul in that it has nothing that is useful for Roland users and is left to swing in the breeze it will not have been a smart acquisition. But rather buying a wonderful DAW and let it starve. Keep in mind that as a DAW alone Sonar is one of a growing number. It needs to distinguish itself in a way that others can't. 

CW is software Roland is hardware can there not be a good solid marriage between them?

I am of the mind that CW is on its own with little useful input from Roland. It could be because they really don't understand what they have with CW. Or how to exploit this very strong relationship.

Yamaha has been very active in developing Cubase.  From where I stand they have done a darn good job too. If Roland does nothing with Sonar it will eventually hurt CW and Sonar. If you buy into Cubase it will also allow you into Yamaha. The one sells the other. 

I want to see more Roland involvement without them screwing Sonar up. 



 

BTW...
 
Happy (belated) Birthday Steve... Did you actually just celebrate 51?
 
Don't worry... I doubt you'll catch up to me too fast as I'm more than 10 years farther gone! ;-)
 
Keni