Keni


BTW...
 
Happy (belated) Birthday Steve... Did you actually just celebrate 51?
 
Don't worry... I doubt you'll catch up to me too fast as I'm more than 10 years farther gone! ;-)
 
Keni
 

 
LOL - cheers Keni
 
And yeah, 51 it is!
 
Although I find acting like a petulant teenager helps me to feel a lot younger
 
 
 

SteveStrummerUK

Keni


BTW...
 
Happy (belated) Birthday Steve... Did you actually just celebrate 51?
 
Don't worry... I doubt you'll catch up to me too fast as I'm more than 10 years farther gone! ;-)
 
Keni
 

 
LOL - cheers Keni
 
And yeah, 51 it is!
 
Although I find acting like a petulant teenager helps me to feel a lot younger
 
 
 

Hey, have a great one Steve - I might be able to hear the party from here......

Danny Danzi

J4R10 


.....Let me let you and everyone else in on a little secret...
 
Because the Bakers DO read this forum, the person that cries out like a human being in a thread just MAY get the attention of a Baker that sends you a PM. I can't tell you how many times that has happened to me as well as my friends on here. Do you think they would waste their time on a hot-head that isn't even willing to try to discuss/work out the problem on the forum? I know I wouldn't if I were them. Kindness as well as patience goes a long way on this forum with both its members that CAN help you as well as the support that hangs behind the scenes. 
 
-Danny

Just to endorse Danny's comment just there.  It was only a few months ago that Noel Borthwick the CTO contacted me via PM after a post here and we had prolonged email exchanges whilst he endeavoured to understand and fix a particular issue with me, sending me numerous custom builds until things were fixed.  The correction was then rolled into an up-coming patch.  I found that to be extremely good customer service, bypassing as he did the formal processes.  Yes, sometimes I wish there was a bit more communication from the bakery folks but that's the way they do things and all in all I believe they still have a very strong product and I use it everyday with no colossal problems, just one or two irritations.
 
John 

BROKENDAW


here is a test for the so called x2a debate.
 get your best client in the studio, throw down a killer track then
go to any buss, click on the pencil tool now draw a line on a volume level'
 after it chrashed and your client left , post on how great cakewalk is and how where all just not as pro as the guys who spend hours on workarounds ,and then use vvocal and leave it on your trach without bouncing, sorry cakewalk i love you and x1 but x2 is junk and if your going to waist time on a forum praising at least have the facts its broken, but yes iv got threw projects since i know the tricks but com on, the pencil  buss crash is just sad.and i know i just opened the door to the love anything cake crew,and PC not working in anything but x2 is even more sad, not even x1??is just unbelievable, they made it like they make video games for kids. payed updates and just wait till next year .i want to thank the forum for prasing them till they just release junk.and you love it. and the sadest fact is i love x1 and use it every day. but that dont mean i want to marry them and give them 1/2 my money. its a daw nothing more. ok a very nice daw. thats x1 my friends back to rockin my daw. lata

I can't reproduce your crash and I'm drawing volume moves on several busses in realtime during playback.  Therein lies the problem with a lot of bugs, what is it about your hardware and your plugins that is different than mine.  I have a feeling that you are using more real time tempo based VSTis, maybe.  I'm more of an audio guy with VSTis that emulate physical instruments like drums and classic types of keyboards.

Many views are that one should be willing to spend a great deal of time and effort trying to solve and correct
problems that shouldn't be there in the first place.
If the problems are bugs then one should learn workarounds and/or wait for a fix or just take the monetary loss
and go spend more money on different software that may or may not perform either.

It's so bad that people with those views believe it to be "normal" or just the way it is.

My problem is that I haven't bought into that line of thinking. Due to the fact that it is a hobby and I don't have to rely on it
I'm not forced into spending my time and effort into dealing with it.

I don't see it that many users are just complaining or trolling. I see it that there are many people that expected things to work
and they don't. Maybe they didn't realize that they would have to invest so much time learning how to troubleshoot, deal with
problems, learn workarounds or wait for fixes- because after all...that is not the "normal". With most things people get what they pay for; get a working replacement or get a refund. Since that doesn't apply in this field it has resulted with a lot of very unhappy users and a lot of people selling software that isn't required to work for everyone or at all. Once you buy it, it's your problem. Well that's the way I see it based on all the money I've invested within the last twenty years.

So I'm back to square one...waiting for the day that it will work and I can be a recording musician instead of a repair tech.....now where's my
wallet and how lucky do I feel?

brconflict

Mod Bod

rabeach


I mean no offence to anyone and without a doubt it is my on ignorance of working in this field but this has been gnawing at me for a while. Why do any of you allow your clients to watch you work. What is to be gained by that? I do electrical and security design work mostly for the DOD and I would never allow them to watch me work. I prepare for any and all meetings with them and ready myself to handle any and all criticism of my work in a diplomatic manner, which means with the DOD I'll do it the way you want it done. But I can't imagine allowing anyone to watch me work. Now that being said I have been put under the microscope upon rare occasions in meetings and been forced to design on the fly in front of high-ranking personnel. 

I want them to see how totally amazing I am.  

haha! But seriously, being a Mix engineer isn't a magic show. It takes good ears, and although sometimes you can work faster without the client present, when you're working major-label gigs, be assured that not only will you have multiple egos in the room, you're likely to have label suits on their mobile phones watching, too. It's a very common thing, actually. I'm a Network Engineer by day, and I can say that not only does that job benefit from the client NOT being in the room with me, they get bored very easily. 

Thanks for the post. Wow, that must be a very stressful occupation being a mix engineer then. I guess I have a better understanding of why software stability is such a big issue. I use cad and several analysis software, they all lock up and do funky stuff on occasion. They are very complicated tools doing calculations that would take weeks by hand in a matter of seconds. So I'm thankful that they are at my disposal. But I can't imagine it being a issue with the type of work I do even if someone is watching. At some point in time mixing engineers messed up and began allowing clients in on the secrets. Shame on them. :-)

A lot of mix engineers, including Chris-Lord-Alge don't mind sharing all of their secrets, but that's because secrets are conjured by engineers that tend to be self-critical to the max. The more successful they are, they tend to be more willing to enlighten and to tell you they don't have secrets, just experience, excellent gear, and a great pair of ears. If you ask Chris how he got the kick drum so punchy on Green Day's American Idiot record, I'm sure he'd show you. The thing is, you would probably have to have his equipment, ears, and experience to know what's too much or not enough. By knowing his secrets, you're not going to take business away from him. He still gets his fill. In fact, the more you learn from him, the more likely he'll hire you to work for his studio. In fact, that's how Adam Ayan started working for Bob Ludwig. 

I don't see it that many users are just complaining or trolling. I see it that there are many people that expected things to work and they don't.

True, but I don't recall seeing anyone post that they like bugs and workarounds and everybody should join them in their new found hobby of using workarounds. What I've grown weary of is posts about things that the poster can't possibly know to be true. I can't recall how many thousands of post that I have read over the past decade of posters stating that cake is going to go out of business because this or that and that they could run cakewalk better than cakewalk or cakewalk should be doing this or that. Anybody who runs a business can appreciate that often these post lack any true insight. It is funny for the first couple of years after a decade or two it wears thin. But I defend the right of these people to post such things as much as I defend my right to find them a little silly.

SteveStrummerUK

Keni


BTW...
 
Happy (belated) Birthday Steve... Did you actually just celebrate 51?
 
Don't worry... I doubt you'll catch up to me too fast as I'm more than 10 years farther gone! ;-)
 
Keni
 

 
LOL - cheers Keni
 
And yeah, 51 it is!
 
Although I find acting like a petulant teenager helps me to feel a lot younger
 
 
 

Congrats Steve! I hope the little kid NEVER grows up! I myself suffer from a well known disease called "Peter Panitis"... I WON'T grow up! ;-)
 
Keni
 

I really hope that the next version, X2b or X3 etc,doesnt end up on the steam cloud like music creater 6....lol

Probably damn near the true numbers there Glen.

Agree with this and with Glenn's numbers.

I write software and I also have to support it. The software I write has full error trapping that can tell me which function call had the error and what the error was. Those are errors and/or bugs. I also do a lot of verification that users have supplied the correct information or that the information I need to perform the task at hand is available. If it isn't I throw my own error and my error handler can determine whether it was a system error or a bit of information that I need to inform the user that something is missing.

Can't tell you how many times a user has told me that there was a bug/error message. When I follow up on it and ask them what the error was they "don't remember". But I log all of my applications error 'messaging' and when I look it up I'll see something along the lines of "Last Name is a required field. Please fill out all required fields and then click the Save button." That isn't a bug, that is the system trying to inform the user that they haven't done something they need to.

This is not to say that problems don't exist, they do. And I suspect I'm not the only person coding who really strives to eliminate bugs. However, as Glenn so correctly states, most of the time it is not a 'bug' - it is a misunderstanding on the users part. And for what it is worth: I changed my sampling rate a few months back and have been bedeviled by on ongoing series of 'bugs' - generally resulting in GSOD followed by BSOD. All of which had a logical and easily correctable solution once I understood where the problem was.

Regards,

When saving a synth preset Sonar adds another .fxp for every save giving synthpatch.fxp.fxp.fxp.fxp.fxp after multiple saves = bug.

 
That one I have seen.   Nothing critical, of course, but yeah, it's for real IMO,
 

vintagevibe

mmorgan

Probably damn near the true numbers there Glen.

Agree with this and with Glenn's numbers.

I write software and I also have to support it. The software I write has full error trapping that can tell me which function call had the error and what the error was. Those are errors and/or bugs. I also do a lot of verification that users have supplied the correct information or that the information I need to perform the task at hand is available. If it isn't I throw my own error and my error handler can determine whether it was a system error or a bit of information that I need to inform the user that something is missing.

Can't tell you how many times a user has told me that there was a bug/error message. When I follow up on it and ask them what the error was they "don't remember". But I log all of my applications error 'messaging' and when I look it up I'll see something along the lines of "Last Name is a required field. Please fill out all required fields and then click the Save button." That isn't a bug, that is the system trying to inform the user that they haven't done something they need to.

This is not to say that problems don't exist, they do. And I suspect I'm not the only person coding who really strives to eliminate bugs. However, as Glenn so correctly states, most of the time it is not a 'bug' - it is a misunderstanding on the users part. And for what it is worth: I changed my sampling rate a few months back and have been bedeviled by on ongoing series of 'bugs' - generally resulting in GSOD followed by BSOD. All of which had a logical and easily correctable solution once I understood where the problem was.

Regards,

Tools not working as per the manual = bug. 
Inability to drag/scroll in the play list = bug.
Keyboard shortcut in playlist (E) not working and no way to assign it =  bug.
Drum map manger inserting another drum map name in the save window after saving = bug.
When saving a synth preset Sonar adds another .fxp for every save giving synthpatch.fxp.fxp.fxp.fxp.fxp after multiple saves = bug.

 I could go on but there are many real bugs in X2 ... or perhaps these are all by design and Cakewalk has the worst application designers in the industry.  

im sure you can do better than this.
 
like which tool(s) are you speaking of ?
what is a playlist ?
 
I know your upset, but think about, insulting cakewalk employee's isn't going to fix your issues man.
I can tell by your sig that this is really upsetting you. ( "programers..tech support...exc." ).
 
every software out there has some failures to it. every single one.
ive used other daws as well and im sure you have as well, you know others have issues too.
 
I think its because you like sonar and that's why your so upset.
because if you didn't, you would be wasting your time here.
 
I agree there are some things id like to see bettered in the next version, but surely you can appreciate this version ?
if we could rewind 10 years ago, we would die to be using a daw like this..and all these little things, issues, we would simply blow them off and move on because we would just chalk them up as part of the price we pay to have this technology we would be happy.
 
I can live with these things, its the real crashes and show stoppers or repeated failures in a process that I cant put up with.
and ill be the first to post them as I have before when x1 came out. it was a nightmare.
but once the first patch rolled out, it got better.
 
this release was nothing like x1 (im sure you know).
 
anyway, I hope you hang in there, I hope things get better for you.
and here's hoping what ever the next thing we see makes you happy.
 
good luck vibe. 
have this technology.

mmorgan Probably damn near the true numbers there Glen. Agree with this and with Glenn's numbers. I write software and I also have to support it. The software I write has full error trapping that can tell me which function call had the error and what the error was. Those are errors and/or bugs. I also do a lot of verification that users have supplied the correct information or that the information I need to perform the task at hand is available. If it isn't I throw my own error and my error handler can determine whether it was a system error or a bit of information that I need to inform the user that something is missing. Can't tell you how many times a user has told me that there was a bug/error message. When I follow up on it and ask them what the error was they "don't remember". But I log all of my applications error 'messaging' and when I look it up I'll see something along the lines of "Last Name is a required field. Please fill out all required fields and then click the Save button." That isn't a bug, that is the system trying to inform the user that they haven't done something they need to. This is not to say that problems don't exist, they do. And I suspect I'm not the only person coding who really strives to eliminate bugs. However, as Glenn so correctly states, most of the time it is not a 'bug' - it is a misunderstanding on the users part. And for what it is worth: I changed my sampling rate a few months back and have been bedeviled by on ongoing series of 'bugs' - generally resulting in GSOD followed by BSOD. All of which had a logical and easily correctable solution once I understood where the problem was. Regards, Tools not working as per the manual = bug.  Inability to drag/scroll in the play list = bug. Keyboard shortcut in playlist (E) not working and no way to assign it =  bug. Drum map manger inserting another drum map name in the save window after saving = bug. When saving a synth preset Sonar adds another .fxp for every save giving synthpatch.fxp.fxp.fxp.fxp.fxp after multiple saves = bug.  I could go on but there are many real bugs in X2 ... or perhaps these are all by design and Cakewalk has the worst application designers in the industry.  

I've reread my post and I don't see anywhere in there where I state there are no bugs. In fact I merely stated that I agree with Glynn's numbers that the majority of posts on this forum that cry bug are not bugs. I went on to try and share my experiences that appear to back up what Glynn stated.


As for your list, I haven't verified it but if true then I would say this: Any time software doesn't perform per spec it is a bug. That said it's been my experience that the majority of the time when users cry bug they are mistaken.


Regards,

 I could go on but there are many real bugs in X2

please do I was able to confirm the synth preset issue if you use the pull down and pick the name of the preset  a standard practice in windows. works correctly if you type the name in. but it should be fixed. i don't use the play list or drum maps so I want try to confirm those. what is the issue with tools.