droddey
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RE: playing to a click. Why so difficult?
2007/06/14 18:15:40
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Well, I'm glad this is a guitar forum...
That's not an ignorant, arrogant, and offence remark...
Nope, not at all...
Thanks for sharing.... It's an example of what's called a "Joke". This type of "Joke" is a statement intended to convey humor by a purposeful distortion of reality, and is not intended to be taken seriously. Some people have trouble recognizing this type of "Joke". In such circumstances, we recommend looking at those around you. If they are laughing, follow along on the assumption that the statement was in fact such a "Joke".
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Ognis
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RE: playing to a click. Why so difficult?
2007/06/14 18:28:21
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ORIGINAL: droddey
Well, I'm glad this is a guitar forum...
That's not an ignorant, arrogant, and offence remark...
Nope, not at all...
Thanks for sharing....
It's an example of what's called a "Joke". This type of "Joke" is a statement intended to convey humor by a purposeful distortion of reality, and is not intended to be taken seriously. Some people have trouble recognizing this type of "Joke". In such circumstances, we recommend looking at those around you. If they are laughing, follow along on the assumption that the statement was in fact such a "Joke".
No, after hearing joke, after joke, after joke, after joke of drummers, it gets irritating.. Esp all the "drummers are the drumb ones", "drummers have no talent"... And my fav... The "Any guitarist is a better drummer than a drummer" - that one the guy was actually serious... I don't need you to tell me what is a joke or not.. I knew it was a joke... There are some jokes that shouldn't be told... Black / white jokes comes to mind.. Gay jokes come to mind... And, after hearing it over, and over, these type of jokes tend to remind me of those racisest jokes... You haven't been around that long... Stick around, the drummer jokes are thick here.. I'd say that 98% of the people here are guitarist, just like in the real world - EVERYBODY plays guitar... So, I usally let them joke, until they say something as arrigont as the post that was made here.. I can take a joke like anyone else.. But to say that we are talentless, and not musicians, and the like... I won't sit around and read that, without saying something... I'd like to see how people would react if I started posted these kind of jokes about guitarist... How about this... Of course you can play guitar, any idiot can play guitar... You can practice anytime you want, and it's cheap / easy to learn.. Any fool can play guitar, it doesn't take talent... You like that ???
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droddey
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RE: playing to a click. Why so difficult?
2007/06/14 18:40:53
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If anyone has any good guitarist jokes, whip'em out. It doesn't bother me. I play guitar, bass, a little keyboards and at least 'virtual drums', so I figure they all apply to me to some degree or another. I'm not sure I'd put drummer jokes on the same par as racial or sexual orientation jokes, since drummers as a whole aren't a genetically defined group or politically disenfranchised or anything like that. Well, maybe musicians as a whole are slightly genetically defined and somewhat politically disenfranchised (by choice more than anything else), but it's not quite the same thing. I don't think I've ever seen "Percussionists Go Home" scrawled on the side of a building before :-)
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Blackwaters End
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RE: playing to a click. Why so difficult?
2007/06/14 19:01:41
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How about this... Of course you can play guitar, any idiot can play guitar... You can practice anytime you want, and it's cheap / easy to learn.. Any fool can play guitar, it doesn't take talent...
You like that ???
The difference is, I couldn't possibly take such a statement seriously. We all know guitar is much harder than drums. (Just kidding!) Seriously, you can't let that kind of stuff bother you. I play with drummers who are much better musicians than I'll ever be, but I still give them crap and make the usual drummer jokes whenever possible. And they give it right back to me. It's a constant back and forth. But we also give praise and make it known that we enjoy making music together. As someone who dabbles in drumming from time to time, I know how difficult it really is. If someone actually is serious in saying that drummers are not really musicians, then I could never take that person seriously. I may be an exception, but I'd say about 75% of the drummers I have played with in the last couple of years also play other instruments and/or compose their own stuff or really study music (as opposed to just messing around and jamming randomly with friends for fun) or teach for a living.
post edited by Blackwaters End - 2007/06/14 19:07:46
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Roflcopter
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RE: playing to a click. Why so difficult?
2007/06/14 20:03:33
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I'm a perfectionist, and perfect is a skinned knee.
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droddey
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RE: playing to a click. Why so difficult?
2007/06/14 20:07:43
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Hmmm.... OK, so maybe they are discriminated group. Somebody want to contact the United Nations on this one? A telethon maybe? Can we get Jerry Lewis for this one?
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Roflcopter
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RE: playing to a click. Why so difficult?
2007/06/14 20:13:45
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A telethon maybe Or start some kind of online donation thing or fund, like - a clickfund.
I'm a perfectionist, and perfect is a skinned knee.
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losguy
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RE: playing to a click. Why so difficult?
2007/06/14 21:33:00
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...for the Rhytmically Challenged?
The stupid irony about this is that, while I can play to a click track just fine (drum tracks, even), I still can't drum for beans (well, on a real trap set, at least). Something about the sticks, or what somebody said earlier about the feet... but I'll be the first to admit, in my case it's 100% because of the absence of practice on that particular instrument.
About being the butt of jokes... The best way to deflect derogatory remarks is with a smile. If people don't move on to the next subject quickly, then they are small and they don't deserve getting angry over. Perfect love really does cover over a multitude of sins.
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barlowjam
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RE: playing to a click. Why so difficult?
2007/06/14 21:39:49
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ORIGINAL: Jose7822
I think its much easier, and more natural (at least in my experiece) to play with a click on 2 and 4 only.
I don't know about others, but for me having a metronome click on 2 & 4 automatically switches my brain to swing mode (especially on fast tempos). But not if it's a slow tempo.
Okay, 1 and 3 then. My point was that I think its easier to sinc with two mechanical beats, within a four bar structure as you're playing, than four. But your right on. I first discovered that years ago when I was practicing Charlie Parker heads on my guitar (and struggling to play them in time/tempo). You can actually swing, playing with a metronome on 2 and 4.
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Jose7822
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RE: playing to a click. Why so difficult?
2007/06/14 21:42:07
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"I don't know about others, but for me having a metronome click on 2 & 4 automatically switches my brain to swing mode (especially on fast tempos). But not if it's a slow tempo. "
It would put me into Reggae mode, which means I'd have to go find a giant spleef and all that. Way too much trouble... LOL I guess that would work too (Reggae mode).
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droddey
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RE: playing to a click. Why so difficult?
2007/06/14 21:46:54
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The stupid irony about this is that, while I can play to a click track just fine (drum tracks, even), I still can't drum for beans (well, on a real trap set, at least). Something about the sticks, or what somebody said earlier about the feet... but I'll be the first to admit, in my case it's 100% because of the absence of practice on that particular instrument. It's hard. Lots of physicality. It's too uncomfortably close to real work for me to ever want to do it. I'll stick to my little Trigger Finger pad, which I find to be pretty strenuous already.
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losguy
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RE: playing to a click. Why so difficult?
2007/06/14 23:21:28
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Gotcha. I have my eyes on a Korg padKontrol for the very same reason.
post edited by losguy - 2007/06/14 23:25:41
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Roflcopter
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RE: playing to a click. Why so difficult?
2007/06/15 04:31:30
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...for the Rhytmically Challenged?  Yeah get one of thos padKontrols - let your fingers do the walking - I don't really need to grow impressive biceps on my age (and in that case I would go chop me some forest). Software's all le_crud, a few nice sounds tho, but the thing itself is marvelous, and you'll want to find your own best MO with it anyway.
I'm a perfectionist, and perfect is a skinned knee.
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losguy
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RE: playing to a click. Why so difficult?
2007/06/15 10:49:53
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ORIGINAL: Roflcopter
Software's all le_crud, a few nice sounds tho, but the thing itself is marvelous, and you'll want to find your own best MO with it anyway. Cool... there's some neat-looking demo material with it on YouTube. Curious... do you use the roll/flam mode, and the X-Y pad for rolls and flams?
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droddey
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RE: playing to a click. Why so difficult?
2007/06/15 12:39:41
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The drum synth you choose will support rolls and flams in one way or another usually. BFD, the one I use, has like an 8th note roll that you can keep going by just banging on it every 8th note, and it has a flam as well. So you don't have to try to do a flam manually, which is kind of hard to do. If you get a good drum synth, you can do very realistic stuff. Cymbals are the most problematic, but if you listen to the cymbals on most pop/rock music anyway, they are so processed that they don't sound like real cymbals either.
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losguy
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RE: playing to a click. Why so difficult?
2007/06/15 13:18:25
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Now that you mention it, I have noticed that in some of my drum libs (so far, SampleTank, but I will be delving into Jamstix soon). I'll look into that. I guess it's a matter of taste, density of MIDI notes, how the drum synth renders it, etc. Thanks!
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Roflcopter
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RE: playing to a click. Why so difficult?
2007/06/15 13:22:34
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Cool... there's some neat-looking demo material with it on YouTube. Curious... do you use the roll/flam mode, and the X-Y pad for rolls and flams? Yeah and the rolls are different *because* of the 2 params, as with flam one direction controls how loud the 2nd note is, the other how fast it follows the 1st - and you can set it to *anything*, also with other synths, meaning you can do things *undoable* with a normal keyboard, and if it's a simple solo or whatever, you just program the pads to play those notes, or a simple progression, or chord. So it's like a serious extension on stuff you already own, too - you want slide on your guitar, now you have it. And it's a serious DAW controller, seen some EQ control XY tricks I'm definitely going to try out. Real winner on all fronts. Only minus besides the software was the lack of a PS, I didn't want yet another USB thingy anyhoo, so I got one and the midi cables too - I read that for real midi OUT you most *definitely* want those - not mentioned anywhere except on their forums, it really drove somebody bonkers already - you need the real thing, so best do that right away - USB throws a spanner there.
I'm a perfectionist, and perfect is a skinned knee.
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losguy
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RE: playing to a click. Why so difficult?
2007/06/15 13:35:52
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Excellent, Rofl. By "real MIDI OUT", could you tip me onto what is missing from the USB side? Is it just the fact that you aren't putting data out of a physical MIDI OUT port, or is there some kind of data missing from the USB side of the communication?
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Roflcopter
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RE: playing to a click. Why so difficult?
2007/06/15 13:41:36
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I'm a perfectionist, and perfect is a skinned knee.
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droddey
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RE: playing to a click. Why so difficult?
2007/06/15 13:44:53
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Even with trying to keep it under control, I've got 10 USB devices on this system. The keyboard has one, the Trigger Finger has one, the PODxt has one, I need one for the stupid Waves copy protection dongle, plus two mice and two keyboards and a couple other things. Generally you shouldn't have to use any real MIDI cables. I'd avoid any device that required that and get one that just purely works through the USB connection, since it's way faster and most devices already require it in order to run their own configuration software and it avoids yet another wall wart power plug.
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losguy
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RE: playing to a click. Why so difficult?
2007/06/15 13:51:04
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Yup.. OK. Looks like you can't use the MIDI OUT while the USB cable is plugged in. That's inconvenient, but not a show-stopper. You must have been wanting to control a real hardware thingy with a real MIDI IN port on it. (How quaint.  ) So, it appears that for basic USB control of softsynths, everything is there. Thanks for the info!!
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Roflcopter
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RE: playing to a click. Why so difficult?
2007/06/15 13:58:14
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You must have been wanting to control a real hardware thingy with a real MIDI IN port on it. (How quaint. ) [sssh. Need that for a Big Secret Project of mine, involving a guitar and me attempting to write a VST even, and involves lots of handwaving. Don't tell anyone else - this message should erase itself in a few hrs.]
I'm a perfectionist, and perfect is a skinned knee.
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losguy
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RE: playing to a click. Why so difficult?
2007/06/15 14:02:21
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ORIGINAL: Roflcopter
[sssh. Need that for a Big Secret Project of mine, involving a guitar and me attempting to write a VST even, and involves lots of handwaving. Don't tell anyone else - this message should erase itself in a few hrs.]
Not if I quote it first! Hahahahaha!!  I know... it's a device to force guitarists to keep time with a clicktrack!! That'll teach 'em. (Wow, we're almost back on topic...) P.S. Where's a good "boilerplate" C++ template for a DXi or VST plug? Does the API provide a good one?
post edited by losguy - 2007/06/15 14:07:45
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funkchills
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RE: playing to a click. Why so difficult?
2007/06/15 19:10:10
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It's not.... Like anything else, it just takes dedicated practice and "in time" (pun intended), it becomes natural...
Always trying to get it right the first time.
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AlesisM51
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RE: playing to a click. Why so difficult?
2007/06/15 19:55:01
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ORIGINAL: Ognis
I'd like to see how people would react if I started posted these kind of jokes about guitarist...
Well you probably won't get much of a reaction since as everyone knows most of us don't read that well. Richard
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droddey
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RE: playing to a click. Why so difficult?
2007/06/15 19:58:15
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The Derrick Zoolander School For Guitarists Who Don't Read Too Good.
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Honest_Al
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RE: playing to a click. Why so difficult?
2007/06/17 23:13:24
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ORIGINAL: droddey
The Derrick Zoolander School For Guitarists Who Don't Read Too Good.
just making sure - the thread... iSSSSS OVER! ..right? can anyone verify that it's officially closed now? . . (couldn't resist..  can anyone find an interesting thread from 2003?)
Singature!? I don't need no fu@#$% singature!
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SuburbanMe
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RE: playing to a click. Why so difficult?
2007/06/17 23:25:54
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in all my years of experience, Drummers generally follow the guitarist which is the worst thing you can do and shows a pathetic drummer. First of all - drummer should set the tempo and hold time - but he should also sync in with the bass player - then the guitarist runs off that. Screw the guitarist - he's not the important member here - drummers and bassplayers are the KEY members to any good band - simply because without a solid rhythm section all you have is a mess. So to all the drummers out there - practice to a metronome, and learn to sync up with the bass player - then you are doing your job properly!
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Jose7822
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RE: playing to a click. Why so difficult?
2007/06/17 23:49:31
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Screw the guitarist - he's not the important member here That's right, screw the guitarist (I'm talking about you fine ladies out there...you groupies you ).
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Ognis
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RE: playing to a click. Why so difficult?
2007/06/18 00:45:05
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ORIGINAL: SuburbanMe
in all my years of experience, Drummers generally follow the guitarist which is the worst thing you can do and shows a pathetic drummer. First of all - drummer should set the tempo and hold time - but he should also sync in with the bass player - then the guitarist runs off that. Screw the guitarist - he's not the important member here - drummers and bassplayers are the KEY members to any good band - simply because without a solid rhythm section all you have is a mess. So to all the drummers out there - practice to a metronome, and learn to sync up with the bass player - then you are doing your job properly!
This post is 20 - 40% correct.
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