Jind
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Re:An Honest Question: Was This Release RUSHED?
2010/12/09 08:14:20
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ba_midi
3) There is a manual. It's via online help chm file as 8.5 was. It's fully searchable, etc.
Not the same as the PDF Reference Guide -- which was a breeze to use, and could be used outside the program.
CHM style help is also a tad outdated and harder to navigate.
This ^^^ while sure there is a "Help" file, a manual is something that you can read outside the program, possibly copy to your mobile device, browse at your leisure with printed out portions while sitting in your easy chair. A Windows Help file is not a manual - it's a help file. Please quit trying to sell a help file as a full fledged manual - you have always had the "Reference Guide" as a concise resource for your user base - that is a manual.
Jind Sonar X2 PE, Cakewalk V Studio 100; Intel i7 w/ 16 GB Ram, MS Windows 8.1
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gordonrussell76
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Re:An Honest Question: Was This Release RUSHED?
2010/12/09 09:04:25
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Man
I agree the tone of some of the posts is too emotional and downright rude, so its not working, that happens, Brandon, Seth and everyone are listening and working hard on this. Some respect I think is due.
To All the employees of Cake, thanks for taking the time to be on this forum and engage with us, thanks for a great product and all your hard work and thanks for the new patch thats in development.
I know that we are giving you our money, but i truly feel that you are one of the few companies that genuinly cares about you're product and user base. Thats a rare thing
I will be purchasing and downloading X1 in the next couple of weeks.
I am sure that it will surpass my expectations even if there are bugs, and given that every version i have owened has ended up rock solid for me by the end of the free patchs, i am unconcerned by the rabble rousing on the forum. I will be running it in conjunction with 8.5.3 which is rock solid so i won't have any problems in real terms.
Take care and have a great holiday season
G
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Jonbouy
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Re:An Honest Question: Was This Release RUSHED?
2010/12/09 09:31:13
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An Honest Question: Was This Release RUSHED?  Of course it was, it's an experimental marketing ploy, deliberately designed to ruin everybody's Christmas holiday. Most of the development time was taken up with playing cards and ping-pong then a few days actual developing when the release deadline approached. Really, was this question posed before any kind of intelligent thought intervened? Just wondering.
"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles. In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
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Ham N Egz
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Re:An Honest Question: Was This Release RUSHED?
2010/12/09 09:40:06
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REMEMBER WHERE you are Bouy.... before you pose that question.......
Green Acres is the place to be I dont twitter, facebook, snapchat, instagram,linkedin,tumble,pinterest,flick, blah blah,lets have an old fashioned conversation!
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bitman
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Re:An Honest Question: Was This Release RUSHED?
2010/12/09 09:42:13
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It's an interesting paradox. There are clearly some issues that should have not seen the light of day. I am referring to the narrow track text overlap issue for one. On the other hand Slate Digital is taking it on the chin for holding back the final release of VCC siting bug fixes the reason now that the iLOK3 issue that was holding things back is now behind them. - That is the real Payton Place story in the industry of late btw.
post edited by bitman - 2010/12/09 09:43:19
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hitmusic
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Re:An Honest Question: Was This Release RUSHED?
2010/12/09 10:27:41
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I usually stay pretty quiet on the forum but if the intention here is to give what has always been an outwardly friendly and 'giving' bunch of people from Cakewalk a hard time then i think the goal is achieved.
However, do we really want to turn cakewalk staff into closed, tight lipped 'corporate' drones that do not engage with its customers to the current levels?
I suggest that we be mindful of the fact that people like Brandon, Seth, Andrew and Noel are actually going beyond the normal day job to answer difficult questions and that by pushing these people (they are people first remember) we are in danger of alienating them and ultimately we all suffer if that happens.
So let's try to keep comments factual, non accusing and ultimately helpful by highlighting issues and offering information on problems that may benefit the CW team whilst allowing them to remain calm and focused on resolving the problems at hand.
Where frustration must be vented (we all need to do that occasionally) at least end your message by saying "pheeewww, sorry but i feel much better for saying that!".
Just my opinion..."pheeewww, sorry but i feel much better for saying that!"
HM
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cryophonik
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Re:An Honest Question: Was This Release RUSHED?
2010/12/09 10:32:55
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Jonbouy
Really, was this question posed before any kind of intelligent thought intervened?
Just wondering.
 . That made my day. X1 is great - yeah, a few very minor bugs that will undoubtedly be squashed in a forthcoming update followed by more minor bugs....etc etc etc, but far fewer than I usually experience with a new or even updated product.
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tarsier
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Re:An Honest Question: Was This Release RUSHED?
2010/12/09 10:49:17
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Seth Perlstein: For years people have been screaming for a new GUI. Now we give it to them and then some by not only making the GUI look better, but also function better, and still some people complain about that.
But some things function worse. There's no more menu customization, so we're stuck with the essentially unchanged items and, frankly, completely illogical key accelerators in the right-click track and bus menus. You can't import track folders anymore. There's no visual indicator of the auto-crossfade status. I used that visual status all the time in 8.5. I never clicked the toolbar button, I always used the keyboard shortcut but since about half the time I wanted auto fade and half the time I didn't, I needed that visual status feedback. It's gone now. And my workflow is suffering. There's no visual indicator of the scroll lock, or pause status. (that I can see) The control bar looks positively ghastly when split across dual monitors since it will split a module. The display of information like track inputs and outputs, and plugins is a lot more cramped and the abbreviations make it almost impossible to figure out what they are. I could go on. It just seems like a lot of little details were not given enough time to really work out the kinks. The little fit and finish things. Yes, we got a new gui with some fantastic features. I'm really loving some of the new automation stuff. But there are many things that are steps backwards as well. How it comes out on balance, I haven't decided. But the utter frustration I'm feeling because of things that used to work so well in 8.5 and now work so poorly or not at all in X1 is huge. They may seem minor on the face of it, but from an actual user experience factor it's feeling pretty major.
post edited by tarsier - 2010/12/09 10:51:22
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Monkey23
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Re:An Honest Question: Was This Release RUSHED?
2010/12/09 10:55:11
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gtgarner
If Sonar is working on a number of systems without a flaw, then I'm thinking.......that its a system issue with the crashers.
I've restarted X1 no less than 50 times today. I've changed folders preferences / opened 8.5 projects and run them / started a new projects / etc . I've even tried to run both X1 and 8.5 together - to which 8.5 wouldn't start with X1 running...but there was no "crash".
Yes, we heard. You mentioned it about five times in this thread alone. Things are running very smoothly for you and we're all very impressed. You're the man! And even though Cakewalk admitted that there are bugs and that there would be a quick maintenance fix, I suppose it makes you feel better to think that all the problems are the result of us mere pilgrims with our shoddy IBM computers from 1998 who use the open CD drive as cup holders and cannot afford your super computer.  Let me guess, you're not having any problems so no one else should either, right? And if they do have problems, why are they coming on the forum and ruining your new X1 bliss with their negativity? Don't they know it's Christmas time? And why did you restart X1 fifty times? Do you actually use this program or do you just turn it on and off all day?
post edited by Monkey23 - 2010/12/09 11:05:28
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Bub 
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Re:An Honest Question: Was This Release RUSHED?
2010/12/09 11:01:52
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Seth Perlstein [Cakewalk]
Like John T and Benstat, I am surprised that we're being criticized for releasing a patch within weeks after X1 shipping. I can't tell you how many times we've had people tell us that we were too slow to release patches.
I can't go in to too many specifics but we even pushed back the release as far as possible so that the release would be as stable and feature rich as possible. We did this for one reason and one reason alone; so you the customer would have the best out of box experience possible.
Is X1 perfect and totally bug free? Nope, and I'm not claiming that it is. But that's why we've had a plan for a patch to be released as soon as possible all along.
I was the one, I think, who first brought up the whole patch deal. It really took me back that a patch for bugs would be announced the day of the release of a new product. I'm not a software developer, I'm an end user, so I expect what I purchase to be fully functional. I'm starting to see that I am wrong for thinking that way since the rest of the world seems so willing to accept otherwise. I will still get X1, but my expectations have lowered by about 50% and I'm not looking forward to it near as much as I was. I may even wait until the next version, be it X2 or whatever it will be called, I haven't decided yet. There's a couple of things that miffed me about this release, but since I'm the only one saying anything about them, I admit I must be wrong. 
"I pulled the head off Elvis, filled Fred up to his pelvis, yaba daba do, the King is gone, and so are you."
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retired_account
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Re:An Honest Question: Was This Release RUSHED?
2010/12/09 11:04:09
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Tis the season for marketing.
You think they'd sell as many copies in January as opposed to the X-mas holiday shopping season in December?
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keith
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Re:An Honest Question: Was This Release RUSHED?
2010/12/09 11:10:30
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bitman
On the other hand Slate Digital is taking it on the chin for holding back the final release of VCC siting bug fixes the reason now that the iLOK3 issue that was holding things back is now behind them.
Ah yes. Things sound 20-40% better when iLok3 is in the pipeline. Sorry. CP rant over. Carry on whining about early adopter teething pain stuff...
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g_randybrown
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Re:An Honest Question: Was This Release RUSHED?
2010/12/09 11:17:40
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gordonrussell76
Man
I agree the tone of some of the posts is too emotional and downright rude, so its not working, that happens, Brandon, Seth and everyone are listening and working hard on this. Some respect I think is due.
To All the employees of Cake, thanks for taking the time to be on this forum and engage with us, thanks for a great product and all your hard work and thanks for the new patch thats in development.
I know that we are giving you our money, but i truly feel that you are one of the few companies that genuinly cares about you're product and user base. Thats a rare thing
I will be purchasing and downloading X1 in the next couple of weeks.
I am sure that it will surpass my expectations even if there are bugs, and given that every version i have owened has ended up rock solid for me by the end of the free patchs, i am unconcerned by the rabble rousing on the forum. I will be running it in conjunction with 8.5.3 which is rock solid so i won't have any problems in real terms.
Take care and have a great holiday season
G
+1 I'm pretty happy so far!
G. Randy Brown Windows 10, 64 bit, PlatinumIntel Core i7-3770S Asus P8Z77-V LK mobo 4X8GB Corsair XMS3 memory 500 GB Crucial BX100 SSD (OS)two WD Black 1 TB HDDSAPPHIRE DUAL-X 100314-4L Radeon HD 6970 2GB 256-Bit GDDR5 Presonus AudioBox 22VSLyoutube.com/crystalclearnm
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ba_midi
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Re:An Honest Question: Was This Release RUSHED?
2010/12/09 11:32:48
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John T
I'm off starting some new threads. "Are cakewalk IN LEAGUE with the NORTH KOREANS?" "Is X1 secretly part of IRAN'S WEAPONS PROGRAMME?" "Is the ProChannel a DELIBERATE ATTEMPT to make BABY JESUS CRY?"
That was histerical John!
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brundlefly
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Re:An Honest Question: Was This Release RUSHED?
2010/12/09 12:44:23
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So let's try to keep comments factual, non accusing and ultimately helpful by highlighting issues and offering information on problems that may benefit the CW team whilst allowing them to remain calm and focused on resolving the problems at hand. Where frustration must be vented (we all need to do that occasionally) at least end your message by saying "pheeewww, sorry but i feel much better for saying that!". Just my opinion..."pheeewww, sorry but i feel much better for saying that!" +1000! Well said. I haven't even looked at this thread until just now, but what you've said applies to dozens of other threads as well.
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gtgarner
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Re:An Honest Question: Was This Release RUSHED?
2010/12/09 13:30:49
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Monkey23
gtgarner
If Sonar is working on a number of systems without a flaw, then I'm thinking.......that its a system issue with the crashers.
I've restarted X1 no less than 50 times today. I've changed folders preferences / opened 8.5 projects and run them / started a new projects / etc . I've even tried to run both X1 and 8.5 together - to which 8.5 wouldn't start with X1 running...but there was no "crash".
Yes, we heard. You mentioned it about five times in this thread alone. Things are running very smoothly for you and we're all very impressed. You're the man!
And even though Cakewalk admitted that there are bugs and that there would be a quick maintenance fix, I suppose it makes you feel better to think that all the problems are the result of us mere pilgrims with our shoddy IBM computers from 1998 who use the open CD drive as cup holders and cannot afford your super computer.
Let me guess, you're not having any problems so no one else should either, right? And if they do have problems, why are they coming on the forum and ruining your new X1 bliss with their negativity? Don't they know it's Christmas time?
And why did you restart X1 fifty times? Do you actually use this program or do you just turn it on and off all day?
My posts were not to say what I'm doing well or not. It is to say that X1 actually works somewhere. I kept restarting X1 becasue I have to go back and forth between 8.5 and X1. You can't run them at the same time. This thread proves that very few people post positive results - even though tons of positive results exist. Rarely do people make the effort to say thanks anymore when they are thankful or say I appreciate you when they are appreciative. Rememberer there are folks still saying that 8.5.3 is crappy on the 8.5 link. Now that THEY CHOSE to upgrade 8.5.3 is great and X1 isn't. No one was forced to upgrade. Re-install (for those that de-installed ) 8.5.3 and work with that instead of constantly complaining.
post edited by gtgarner - 2010/12/09 13:32:21
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chrisharbin
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Re:An Honest Question: Was This Release RUSHED?
2010/12/09 17:06:33
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Is there an unsubscribe button somewhere?
i7 860/MSI mobo/8GB ram/win7x64ultimate/X2/profire 610/oxygen 61/running 48k currently.
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JClosed
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Re:An Honest Question: Was This Release RUSHED?
2010/12/09 17:39:56
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I posted this here before and I say it again...
New software should never ever be installed and run solely in a production environment without thoroughly been tested!!
I have been working in an IT department of a large company, and if I would have the nerve to install new software in a production environment without even a test run and/or keeping the working chain in place, I would be fired on the spot, chopped to pieces, thrown out of the window with a ball'n chain around my neck and hunted down by hell-dogs ....... just to start with....
New software - no matter what it is - always has some unexpected quirks or design flaws and/or decisions you have to deal with. There is NO perfect software that will please anyone or run perfect for everybody. The only software that has no faults is the software that is never ever published and used. Some people here have real valid criticism, and I am sure the software designers will take a close look at it. However - claiming it will cost you a part of your income because you cannot longer run your production environment is a display of utter stupidity in my opinion. That sound harsh, but if you thrown out a good working environment and replaced that with not yet fully tested brand new software - you get what you deserve.
Well - I know what I will do. I will keep Sonar 8.5.3 in place, and install X1 alongside. Then I will make a gradually transition from the one environment to the other. I will be patient and wait until enough quirks and design flaw are solved by patches. In the mean time I get familiar with the new software, until I am assured I can make the final jump without any drawbacks.
Naturally - the quirks and design flaws etc. have to be reported while doing the transition, but that can be done in a professional way. I do not think things like "that #$%& bug has to be %#@#@ resolved NOW because I @#!@ pay for it .. you #@!)( !!!" would be marked as very professional approach.
And that - in my opinion - is the one and only professional way to make a good and low risk transition from one package version to another.
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BEATZM1D10T
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Re:An Honest Question: Was This Release RUSHED?
2010/12/09 17:48:49
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JClosed
I posted this here before and I say it again...
New software should never ever be installed and run solely in a production environment without thoroughly been tested!!
I have been working in an IT department of a large company, and if I would have the nerve to install new software in a production environment without even a test run and/or keeping the working chain in place, I would be fired on the spot, chopped to pieces, thrown out of the window with a ball'n chain around my neck and hunted down by hell-dogs ....... just to start with....
New software - no matter what it is - always has some unexpected quirks or design flaws and/or decisions you have to deal with. There is NO perfect software that will please anyone or run perfect for everybody. The only software that has no faults is the software that is never ever published and used. Some people here have real valid criticism, and I am sure the software designers will take a close look at it. However - claiming it will cost you a part of your income because you cannot longer run your production environment is a display of utter stupidity in my opinion. That sound harsh, but if you thrown out a good working environment and replaced that with not yet fully tested brand new software - you get what you deserve.
Well - I know what I will do. I will keep Sonar 8.5.3 in place, and install X1 alongside. Then I will make a gradually transition from the one environment to the other. I will be patient and wait until enough quirks and design flaw are solved by patches. In the mean time I get familiar with the new software, until I am assured I can make the final jump without any drawbacks.
Naturally - the quirks and design flaws etc. have to be reported while doing the transition, but that can be done in a professional way. I do not think things like "that #$%& bug has to be %#@#@ resolved NOW because I @#!@ pay for it .. you #@!)( !!!" would be marked as very professional approach.
And that - in my opinion - is the one and only professional way to make a good and low risk transition from one package version to another.
^ +1000 ^ I don't know why more people don't get this.
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ba_midi
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Re:An Honest Question: Was This Release RUSHED?
2010/12/09 18:11:54
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^ +1000 ^ I don't know why more people don't get this. I agree in general, but not everyone who is getting X1 asap is going to make it there go-to app yet. Me, for example. NO WAY I'm going to use it YET as my "seriously doing work" host. I'll be sticking with 8.5.3 for that and "playing with, learning" X1 in spare time. I suspect many are approaching it this way because it is like an entirely new experience for almost every Sonar user (having the new GUI, keybindings, etc). I agree it'd be a bit foolish to treat it as totally ready for prime time just yet. It will take time to learn/know and to debug a bit too.
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pathos
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Re:An Honest Question: Was This Release RUSHED?
2010/12/09 18:14:28
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JClosed
Well - I know what I will do. I will keep Sonar 8.5.3 in place, and install X1 alongside. Then I will make a gradually transition from the one environment to the other. I will be patient and wait until enough quirks and design flaw are solved by patches. In the mean time I get familiar with the new software, until I am assured I can make the final jump without any drawbacks.
This is so common with new software releases. Same here, x86 & x64 versions of each so I can get some work done while learning X1. I'll be doing a total fresh install when a few updates have been released. I backed up my DAW right before installing X1 so if something goes very wrong I can simply restore.
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JenksTer
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Re:An Honest Question: Was This Release RUSHED?
2010/12/09 18:42:15
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Well folks, considering Sean Murray has been using X1 for the past year, you'd think any issues would be sorted by now.
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KyRo
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Re:An Honest Question: Was This Release RUSHED?
2010/12/09 19:47:15
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Jonbouy
Really, was this question posed before any kind of intelligent thought intervened?
Yes. Jerk.
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Re:An Honest Question: Was This Release RUSHED?
2010/12/09 19:57:31
(permalink)
OK, easy guys. No name calling or anything like that. Be advised that if this continues the thread will be locked and/ or deleted.
Stay on topic, relax, and have fun!
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Jonbouy
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Re:An Honest Question: Was This Release RUSHED?
2010/12/09 20:06:07
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dimelives1
Jonbouy
Really, was this question posed before any kind of intelligent thought intervened?
Yes. Jerk.
"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles. In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
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JenksTer
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Re:An Honest Question: Was This Release RUSHED?
2010/12/09 20:07:04
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Jonbouy
dimelives1
Jonbouy
Really, was this question posed before any kind of intelligent thought intervened?
Yes. Jerk.
+1
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KyRo
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Re:An Honest Question: Was This Release RUSHED?
2010/12/09 20:24:31
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Just playin', Uncle Seth In all honesty though, yes, some people here and there were expressing their opinions that the product seemed rushed, that its release came at this point as a response to Pro Tools, believing that certain aspects (e.g. Console view) were afterthought, complaints about the bugs and all (I know all new releases have their issues right off the bat). So I just wanted to get an honest scoop from the team. I honestly wouldn't have blamed them if it WAS put out prematurely at all. Can't keep a Cake in the oven for TOO long, and gotta stay competitive, even if there are a few flubs to deal with after the fact. But the boys have retorted that it was not any of these things, and I trust 'em. Only curious
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Fess
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Re:An Honest Question: Was This Release RUSHED?
2010/12/09 20:29:34
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JenksTer
Well folks, considering Sean Murray has been using X1 for the past year, you'd think any issues would be sorted by now.
He must have the 'working' version, unlike the beta the rest of us have...
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wormser
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Re:An Honest Question: Was This Release RUSHED?
2010/12/09 20:49:07
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Been using X1 for most of the day, just noodling around loading older projects, playing a little piano with Ivory II and so forth.
No crashes for me yet but I haven't done any automation.
I'm using the x64 version on Windows 7 with dual monitors.
I find the interface interesting and easy on the eyeballs.
Add my vote for a pdf manual.
I take it there is no more "big transport" as the Control Bar takes it's place?
Overall so far I like it.
Kudos to the Cake team!
Windows 8 x64 Intel i7 950 3.06ghz 6 GB DDR3 1333(1066) OCZ memory Gigabyte X58A-UD3R v.2.0 Delta 66. Seagate 1.0tb drives x4 OS, Audio, VST, Backup Stuff. Mackie MCU Pro Latest. Faderport. Sonar X2, PreSonus 2.x, Reaper.
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Mooch4056
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Re:An Honest Question: Was This Release RUSHED?
2010/12/09 21:01:51
(permalink)
Most of the development time was taken up with playing cards and ping-pong then a few days actual developing when the release deadline approached. ummm actually that was my college life in my dorm room when i was 22 years old - but instead of calling it "development time" we called it studying -- and the deadline would be the final exam ahhh i MISS THE FOOSBALL TABLE AND BEER ...THOSE WERE THE DAYS
From Now On Call Me Conquistador!
Donate to the cure Bapu Foundation Email: mooch4056@gmail.com for more info
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