Nothing to see here...move on!

NSorry, don't mean to upset anyone....just want to share my thoughts. I've been working with the lower class DAWs...N-track, Tracktion and the like...but recently have been thinking about going up a grade i.e. Sonar, Cubase etc.
Sonar came out top of my list but then... I was pointed in the direction of Reaper. It's not yet as fully developed as the big players but oh my god... does it run SMOOTH. Perhaps the Sonar demo is not a true indicator of performance but Reaper just doesn't drop out as much. Is it only the demo version of Sonar that is somehow disabled, or could I expect similar performance buying the whole thing?

All points taken on board! Of course I don't expect a 2MB download to replace all of Sonar(fantastic program by all accounts) but the cost/performance ratio has to be considered. It seems to be able to handle all my VST and DX effects fine.
I was actually hoping the Sonar demo WAS disabled somehow....it would be easier to make my mind up! If the full version drops out as often as the demo...maybe I'd better think again.

There are plenty of parameters available to "tune" Sonar. Sonar attempts to use WDM first up. Were you running Reaper with WDM or ASIO drivers? You might want to try setting Sonar to use ASIO in the audio options.

In Sonar's defence, I run it every day with large track counts and lots of FX and it just works. It never gets in the way of my creative process. The only way I can make it drop out is to drop my latency down to 1.5 ms and then load up big time on FX and Synths until I overload it. Of course, I'm really overloading my CPU, not Sonar.

In practise I run at around 5 ms latency on a dual core Opteron and never hit the ceiling. I certainly don't get drop-outs.

6.2 runs smooth as silk on my DAW. I've never tried out the Demo but I imagine there is a bit of tweaking you would need to do. It's pretty much expected. But when you tweak it down nice, you'll love the feature set of Audio Snap, V-Vocal, Synth Rack, Set Measure/Beat to Now time, Vintage Channel, Perfect Space, etc. I don't think you'll find that with Reaper.

Has anyone here checked out Reaper? It comes with LOTS of effects and even an "auto-tuning" clone. I think Reaper could mean bad things for DAW makers. It's also getting updated several times a week. The guy who codes it (same guy who made winamp) is seriously lisetening to ALL user feedback and makes updates to the program VERY QUICKLY-- as in, "Hey it would be cool if Reaper had ___" and the next day it is there. Has happened too many times to count already. If you haven't checked out Reaper, you really should. I can't even imagine this little app a year from now. Check it out.

In case you haven't heard of it....a balanced view from Sound And Sound forums...

http://www.soundonsound.com/forum/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=417152&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1&vc=1

well ok ....Sound ON Sound.....my bad!

Mod, nowhere on the Reaper website does it state that its users should go out and bash other competing products. I completely agree that it is in bad form to do so, but that is up to each individual to decide whether to conduct such behavior. I personally do not and never will; I didn't start this thread obviously, but my post above is in no way intended to bash Sonar. It's not inapropriate (imo) to have a comparison thread here (just like the umpteen million Cubase vs Sonar threads that perpetually preside in this forum), though I will admit the title of this thread could be worded more politely.

I think a lot of its users are just excited, and want to spread the "good news" if you will. ;-)

Believe it or not, one of Reaper's own devotees got a bit of a lashing recently on the Reaper forum for engaging in just such a behavior elsewhere. It's a matter of respect and civility. But it really should not be a factor in not checking it out; that's like hating a great song, just because it gets overplayed. It's not the song's fault...

Well in fairness, a non-commercial license is $40, but a commercial license is $200.

# "Non-commercial use" as defined here, refers to the use of this software for the production of your own content, not for the purpose of making money.

# "Commercial use" as defined here, refers to any use that is not a non-commercial use as defined above, and shall include, but not be limited to either of the following uses: a) the use of this software for the production of other's content for compensation, or b) the use of this software by a business for any purpose.

Gee ... this won't get flamed :)

AXE

ORIGINAL: Cojomo

Ok, really didn't want to cause any bloodshed....just wanted to know which parts of Sonar keep you guys (the long time users) happier compared to other DAW users. Forget I mentioned any other software...What features in Sonar keep you with it?
(I've got free (not pirate!)versions of Cubase LE, Reason, Live at home and Pro Tools LE at work...just looking for something better!)

It is the thread title that is causing a stir. You say Reaper 'kills' SONAR. That really is not true. There are many, many features that SONAR has that Reaper does not. Reaper appears to be more stable on *your* system than SONAR. That really does not mean anything. SONAR is ROCK SOLID on my system (Reaper probably would be too). But Reaper does not 'kill' SONAR, by any stretch. For instance. I have a high-end firewire sound interface/control surface. SONAR tightly integrates with my control surface and has hundreds of tactile, surface control 'shortcuts' and features available to me that I do not have with Reaper. Also, I have 3 UAD cards with a magma chasis. Reaper does not support the UADs. They are, by FAR one of the most important aspects of my mixing environment. I also have a Duende, from SSL. it is not clear if Reaper will support this either. This is just as important to me as the UADs. There again, another area where Reaper falls behind. For all intents and purposes, given the fact that SONAR is very stable for me, Reaper falls waaaaaaaaaaaaay behind SONAR....*FOR ME*. So, I am not trying to bash Reaper or hold SONAR on high. I am simply pointing out the inherent lack of accuracy or 'universalism' in your thread title...l

Look...please...I'm with you guys! Yes, I joined the forums VERY recently, but have been a long time reader. I have never said Reaper was better than Sonar...all I asked about was a drop-out problem I was having with the demo. I KNOW and stated previously that Reaper can't do what Sonar can...of course it can't! The only reason it came up was that I tried it and it seemed to run smoother than the DEMO version of Sonar I was running. I'm truly sorry if anyone took this differently than it was intended...if you wish, my participation in the forum AND in Sonar purchases can be erased very quickly.

ORIGINAL: jamester

ORIGINAL: manthe

It is the thread title that is causing a stir. You say Reaper 'kills' SONAR. That really is not true.

Manthe, I agree with everything in your post...but I think you're missing the "joke". Reaper "kills", get it?

(maybe still in poor taste, but that's the joke)

Jeesh...I'm an idiot!!

I SO should have have got that!

ORIGINAL: billruys

$40? Checkmate.

Ultimately, a feature packed DAW for $40.00 has got to hurt all of us, doesn't it? I'm talking everyone - Steinberg users, Cakewalk users, Adobe users, etc. Other DAW manufacturers could easily be driven out of business. $40.00 for a DAW package of this magnitude is effectively dumping product on the market at well under it's market value. In some countries that's an illegal business practise.

That's great for Joe Public right now, but will it still be great when all other DAW makers have gone bust and Reaper is the only game in town? I don't think so.

Once you drive the other players out of the market, there's no need to innovate any more, cause there's no competition. If Reaper is worth, say, $150, then it should be sold for $150.

Steinberg effectively spent years of R & D and money into developing VST/VSTi technology. Cakewalk put much time and effort into bypassing KMIXER to make low latency over WDM a reality. Many of the ideas in Reaper were developed by the big DAW makers. Here we have Reaper, benefiting from the groundwork made by the big players, but they haven't paid their dues IMHO.

I'm sorry, but this is just dumb.

Digidesign initially released protools HD as a cheaper, easier alternative to expensive tape-based analog recording systems. That's right folks, the widespread use of ProTools is because $20,000 was WAY CHEAPER compared to a high-end mixing desk and tape system.

Then products like Cubase, Logic and Sonar come along and provide a simple, affordable, recording studio in a box that even hobbyists can afford.

Cakewalk has been doing this digidesign for years, and digitdesign basically drove the tape makers out of business. Complain about computer audio and home recording driving commercial studios out of business left and right or about cheap digital destroying high-quality analog if you will, but to gripe that a $40/$200 DAW is BAD but a $400 one is NOT is ridiculous when 15 years ago a professional recording platform cost hundreds of thousands of dollars...

Whatever you think of Reaper, the fact that a couple of talented garage-band programmers have in a few short months created a product that is even competitive with the big DAWs, and which is in many respects superior can be nothing but GOOD for customers. It case you never took economics, the whole idea behind a free-market is to make products better, cheaper, and faster for consumers.

And are you serious about comparing inexpensive shareware to illegal dumping? Do you even know what that means? Have you ever used a free plugin, or flash player, or javascript thing? If two guys make a better product in their spare time than a massive conglomorate can make in years of R&D does that mean that the two guys should be FORCED to charge millions of dollars for their hobby, or should be barred from distributing a better, smaller product to protect the corporate interests? If that is your contention then you have a very unique view of antidumping regulations...

Finally, you may have been unaware of this, but for years, cakewalk has been producing very full-featured sequencer under the name of Music Creator that sells for like $30. Similar offerings are available from the other big developers, and freeware/shareware products such N-tracks and Magix have been around for years.

What has really made Reaper a hot topic in the audio world is not that it's a cheap sequencer (there are tons of those), it's that it is actually a legitimate contender/competitor to the big names, and that it implements a lot of features that many audio professionals have been clamoring for for years (real side-chain ring a bell?). It's smallness and cheapness and indie vibe are just extra fuel for a fire that wouldn't exist if this were not a heavyweight contender. And a small, cheap, heavyweight contender that introduces new functionality and better implementation will force ALL DAW makers to become that much more competitive, which is a good thing for consumers.

Cheers.

ORIGINAL: Cojomo

So it's the thread title causing the problems? Sorry again, no harm meant, silly joke! T'was only the demo mentioned tho?!?!
Being so new here, how does one go about changing the name of the thread and stopping people taking offence at it?

Scroll up to your first post, click "edit" and then change the subject line.

And yeah, the title is a little inflammatory, even if your intent was not trolling.

Cheers.