Hi Billy-

What a great story! Thanks for that, and best wishes to you and Kath!

-Susan

Hi anton-

<snip>

CHILL.I NOW STATE FOR THE RECORD,I NEVER MEANT FOR ANY BAD VIBES TO COME FROM ,WHAT I THOUGHT,WAS JUST A LAUGH,,ANYWAY .....BACK TO THE STUDIO

Ok, sounds good to me! If there is a next time, let's do something like "Why don't mates/spouses/partners understand?" instead of singling out "wives". That way my hubby won't won't feel left out<g>!

-Susan

my apols to your hubby! later

Knock us down a peg or two. Can't do any harm???
:-)

Actually, in reply to all!

Well lesseeeee. . . .
I AM gonna stay on the subject of “spousal interaction and approval concerning music production, etc.”

First, concerning us (Leah and John) and music before we “partnered”. Leah plays outrageously wonderful, home-grown stride piano and being left handed, she POUNDS the oomph-chop stride part.
She can play almost any popular song quite convincingly, but always with that striding lower register. She owned a piano when we met 13 years ago.

After my high school junior spring, there were music schools pounding on our door. My older Sister had entered music at university two years before and was impressive and she was pushing me, having convinced the music world that I should be kidnapped if needed to join them.

My parents slammed that door. 1962
Being a man, I had to be an engineer/scientist etc. It was like ripping out the right part of my brain/consciousness and denying me any hope of any artistic existence.

That’s enough of that. Jump to 13 years ago, Leah had been a high corporate exec’s wife and was really good at it. Pushed and supported him to the top. They had split and she was still in that “woman” thing as an exec assistant to a VP in the TV ratings business. In her mind, the peak of achievement for a woman. You might imagine what her “mind set” was, very sexist by default, she had no choice, she knew no choice.

I had done my engineer/scientist bit during a most wonderful time in the growth of electronic technology, helping bring us from tubes to solid state to digital, mostly in media production and distribution, TV. You have a cable or sat box on your TV, my prints are all over the inside.

I was trying to go from hardware/numbers to software/people and had just been rendered greatly physically challenged (not disabled, that only comes with death!)
We met and sparks flew.
It took us a few months to settle in and realize that we actually wanted to spend the rest of our (we thought) burned out lives together, just enjoying.

We had both been social high rollers but were totally different. Me completely liberated and her completely trapped in old-world German social sexuality, you know, the stuff that this thread is bringing out that it did not want to.

Our relationship has grown because of two things that we did (we did not plan, just tried things until it worked better, though there were lots of trials and errors and fierce battles.)
First, we established some middle ground that was sacred to the relationship. Then we GAVE instead of demanded (sometimes, seems to have been enough, so far).

I gave her freedom from wifely home duties and returned to her the same thing that she had given (her life) to her exec husband (her second). She now owns property, has unbelievable credit, and works in billion dollar corporate management as a legal eagle. By the time the world believes that she should retire, she will be graduating from LAW SCHOOL (part time mostly). She loves it!!

Am I proud? “See Leah there, I’m part of her life!” I am envied by many?

She gave me back the right side of my life. She noticed that I would secretly play her keyboard (we traded her piano for a Yamaha PF-1) when she was not looking.
She was cagy about it. We would go to Thoroughbred Music Kapok Tree (now Samash Clearwater) to “look at pianos” and she started getting me things. Sound card, Cakewalk 3 (at that time), etc.
She loves dance music so “she” had to have a RM1X (I still use it as controller) I am sort-of a one arm musician these days but it will work. I’ve done it before and life is new and good.

The truth was out when she got me the K2500S loaded (new$$)and over the past 6 years. . . MU100r, PSR 730, Triton Studio, Karma, VS2480, digital mixers, etc., and an orthopedic piano stool ;-)

I have proceeded part time at music since I only have a part time life and we took care of her Mom until her death last year (terrible Alzheimers).
Now I am, after 40 years, returning to age 16 to pursue music (what style(s) is yet to be determined) but I love sound and people-with-musical-hearts and want to give back as I get.
And, oh yea, we still disagree some and fight some but we always have that sacred middle ground.
. . .and the music. . .
What you think is what you are. Change your thinking, changes your life.
You want something, give it away. It will return a thousand fold.

Everyone has the right to their opinion and to be different.
Takes all kinds, I guess. . .

I am near Orlando, she is at Home Dunedin. We are meeting tomorrow midway in Lakeland at Cracker Barrel for a very important birthday breakfast for her. It is what she wanted! I had mine last month. We are the same age.
ThankYouVeryMuch,

John the Pilgrim
Ya think this is long? Should’ve seen what was cut ;-) or simply not told!

ORIGINAL: Susan G

Hi ArrowHead-

Men are goal oriented thinkers, whereas women are emotion and network based thinkers.

Well, I'm so glad you cleared that up for us! That explains everything.

Can we please stop this women vs. men crap?! Some men are jealous and possessive, some women are jealous and possessive. Some women are goal-oriented, as are some men. Some men act on their emotions, as do some women.

I wish we could drop this. It *is* hard to balance work and family, but let's not pont the finger at anyone. There's no reason to blame women for any of this. It's just a function of how two people get along together, and how they respect what the other does, and the time it takes. Some men are better at it than others, as are some women.

-Susan

Sorry Susan, but this is simple information that's taught in basic psychology. It's not men vs. women. We're two completely different creatures. But don't expect me to ignore differences between genders so you can feel equal.

Hi ArrowHead-

So you want to fight with me about what on this forum? Or should we step outside? You don't think men and women are equal? How old are you?

But don't expect me to ignore differences between genders so you can feel equal.

Well, you're obviously very angry, but I have no idea why you feel so threatened by me. What exactly did I do to you?

-Susan

Or maybe he was kidding and left out the .

I'm glad this post landed here instead of the Coffee House, as I might have missed it otherwise. I should check the other forums more often.

As others have already said, this is an important issue. I've especially appreciated the input from the ladies, as well as the men, who have found a way to balance things out.

It has also caused a few laugh out loud moments as well, per its original intent.

This issue hits close to home - most of my college acquaintances have gotten married in the past couple years, and now many seem concerned that I remain without a band (a gold one). There's the questions, "So...got a girlfriend yet?" And there's the attempted hook-ups (for which I am thankful, even though to this point none have gotten very far). I try to explain why I am in still single, but generally don't get far until I'm at a loss for words. I end up feeling like they just don't "get" it.

It seems to be hard for those on the outskirts of music to understand the passion that can go into creating it. It might be fun to dance to or keep them awake on long drives, but that's about it...except for maybe one or two songs that hold a special meaning. My goal is to write several of "those" kinds of songs, and currently most of my free time is spent on that focus.

But, as I have been so aptly reminded, it's not necessarily the amount of time one has available, or whether their partner even shares the same interest, but how one uses the time they're given. Several of you have mentioned spending quality time with their spouse, which can translate into quality time in the studio and elsewhere. That's an important view to keep in perspective...while I agree that having more time while being single *may* lead to "better" music, that doesn't necessarily mean it will. We draw inspiration from experience, and if I'm shut in my studio all the time, my experience is going to become extremely limited.

Thanks for the reality check. We all know people that seem to be waiting for a ticket to somewhere else, content to do or feel very little in their current state. They complain about their situation (work, home, whatever), but do little to change anything. It's too much effort - they'd rather come home after a day at work, microwave something, and stare at the television until it's time to go to sleep. Whether they're married or single, the lack of passion in their life will remain the same. I have been afraid in the past that getting married would turn me into such a person. I know, sounds stupid now that I've said it. But if you knew some of my married acquaintances, you would understand where that perception could come from! Anyhow, this thread has been a reminder how that idea is competely bogus.

Godspeed in your various musical endeavors and much respect.

Peace,

James

I have been afraid in the past that getting married would turn me into such a person. I know, sounds stupid now that I've said it.

Not at all. Many of us fear that committment will lead to complacency. Not too many glowing examples of happily married rock stars out there.

The point is, just do what makes you happy. If you find someone who you enjoy sharing your happiness with, all the better. Just do your best to make sure they're happy too.

ORIGINAL: James_Oak

I'm glad this post landed here instead of the Coffee House, as I might have missed it otherwise. I should check the other forums more often.

As others have already said, this is an important issue. I've especially appreciated the input from the ladies, as well as the men, who have found a way to balance things out.

It has also caused a few laugh out loud moments as well, per its original intent.

This issue hits close to home - most of my college acquaintances have gotten married in the past couple years, and now many seem concerned that I remain without a band (a gold one). There's the questions, "So...got a girlfriend yet?" And there's the attempted hook-ups (for which I am thankful, even though to this point none have gotten very far). I try to explain why I am in still single, but generally don't get far until I'm at a loss for words. I end up feeling like they just don't "get" it.

It seems to be hard for those on the outskirts of music to understand the passion that can go into creating it. It might be fun to dance to or keep them awake on long drives, but that's about it...except for maybe one or two songs that hold a special meaning. My goal is to write several of "those" kinds of songs, and currently most of my free time is spent on that focus.

But, as I have been so aptly reminded, it's not necessarily the amount of time one has available, or whether their partner even shares the same interest, but how one uses the time they're given. Several of you have mentioned spending quality time with their spouse, which can translate into quality time in the studio and elsewhere. That's an important view to keep in perspective...while I agree that having more time while being single *may* lead to "better" music, that doesn't necessarily mean it will. We draw inspiration from experience, and if I'm shut in my studio all the time, my experience is going to become extremely limited.

Thanks for the reality check. We all know people that seem to be waiting for a ticket to somewhere else, content to do or feel very little in their current state. They complain about their situation (work, home, whatever), but do little to change anything. It's too much effort - they'd rather come home after a day at work, microwave something, and stare at the television until it's time to go to sleep. Whether they're married or single, the lack of passion in their life will remain the same. I have been afraid in the past that getting married would turn me into such a person. I know, sounds stupid now that I've said it. But if you knew some of my married acquaintances, you would understand where that perception could come from! Anyhow, this thread has been a reminder how that idea is competely bogus.

Godspeed in your various musical endeavors and much respect.

Peace,

James

Right on, homeslice... it's all up to YOU. And YOU can do anything. Now, doing anything and being happy...that's the trick.
I've done and seen a lot of incredible things. I've known and influenced some incredible people, and seen some seriously wacky ****. I've been featured in Keyboard magazine, had tracks on MTV and network primetime shows, had a bunch of press, major record deal, been personal friends of some people that have become hugely famous/rich... blah, blah,blah.
It's all good and dandy, but if you aren't happy with yourself, it's difficult to be happy with someone else. Artist's tend to strive to always better their art(which hopefully reflects themselves), or make it more effective. How can I be happy with myself when I know I can be/do better? Maybe I'm selfish or stupid or just plain disfunctional, but how/where can I possibly meet someone who understands, or even gives a damn?
Wanna know me? Listen to my music. That's all there is. That's it. As far as the music takes you, I'm really that shallow. **** the money. **** being cool. I just want to be happy. I guess you can always hide, but sure can't run from yourself.
Sorry if I've gotten off the topic. What the hell were we talking about anyway?

O.K. . . I’ll dive in. . .

I will agree with Susan G., almost completely. Signs of sexism are deeply imbedded and difficult, especially for men (but often for women as well) to see in one’s self and one’s own presentation.
It “was” deeply ingrained in our society, our “race thought”. Seems to still be and maybe growing ;-(
It becomes a real, severe test of objectivity since everyone is either male or female.

Yet, perhaps the ongoing presence of the Gay community and it’s efforts to grey out or shift these feelings somehow supports “needs” in those supposedly “not gay”.

Look way back in philosophy and way forward in genetic science and some understanding seems possible. Ancient philosophy (really ancient) recognizes equality at the origin and pure essence of the individual spirit, and tries to keep an understanding.

Genetic science has determined that we are indeed “all created equal” to the extent that there is a point in the existence of an embryo that sex has not been initialized. Abe was right, we seem to be all “created equal”. Sex of a unborn child WILL be an option soon if made legal and acceptable.

The pure physical differences place childbearing duties on the female, which must be greatly respected, and I am not sure if males have an even similar property.

Beyond physical differences (which I dearly love and enjoy, both my male and female inner selves) the rest is up to each individual to use the inherited gene properties and approach (embrace, attack) the world as soon as “it” forms before our eyes and minds, as infants, but we get “guided” by family and society (environment).

Even in our rather awkward society with it’s many corners, signs of those pure origins are evident.

I believe that musical talent exists that deep in our physical and spiritual selves.

Try this on, all you fighters who love music, at the turn of the decade between 50’s and 60’s, males who were very musically (or otherwise artistically) gifted and driven were expected to be Gay, especially those who chose to follow religious music. (Well, most music found its origins in the ancient church) !!

Being exposed to all this very early in life can make a great difference. I do not know if it exists in child-bearing families these days, or is supported in the spiritual community.

Sad. . .
But anyone who is “here” is surely seeking music, which transcends (although celebrates) the sexual differences, real or environmentally imposed (social).

Thanks,

Pilgrim

ORIGINAL: Susan G

Hi ArrowHead-

So you want to fight with me about what on this forum? Or should we step outside? You don't think men and women are equal? How old are you?

But don't expect me to ignore differences between genders so you can feel equal.

Well, you're obviously very angry, but I have no idea why you feel so threatened by me. What exactly did I do to you?

-Susan

Or maybe he was kidding and left out the .

Susan, I LOVE your threatening presence!!

Or whatever anyone, you even, wants to call it.

I see in your posts a somewhat calm but focused caring for even the confusion here.
But it does have a good bite. . . Notice how many want to correct your reading rather than their writing. . . They are trying to be good also. . .
Unfortunately, in the larger whole. . . the definition of ignorance must include the self (theirs, not yours, Susan).


Pilgrim

ORIGINAL: Pilgrim

O.K. . . I’ll dive in. . .

I will agree with Susan G.,
<snip>
But anyone who is “here” is surely seeking music, which transcends (although celebrates) the sexual differences, real or environmentally imposed (social).

Thanks,

Pilgrim

I “believe” that I may have been attempting to “lighten” things up with a bit of “en” lightenment in that post.
Joking about any of this IS and has been part of the problem!

Here is where I am:
I realize that I lack sufficient understanding in this matter. That “understanding” is to me, in fact, an “understanding” and sufficient to quell any harsh emotions that I may find within.

The most important and driving characteristic in me is the ability to “not understand”, and to live with it.
That should be funny enough for me to now leave for my Birthday party!
Pilgrim

So far my wife has bought me (amongst lots of other music gear) two guitars, one of them a Gibson SG. Last year she paid for one of my 17" LCD monitors (causing the purchase of the other one and in the end a complete PC upgrade).

She also gave me two fantastic sons. And when I'm really lucky she actually gets in front of the mic and sings.

No complaints here.

ORIGINAL: Susan G

Hi-

ORIGINAL: pharohoknaughty
I am single. Every red hot chick I run into that "plays guitar" has somehow bought a taylor. My experience is they have a three chord vocabulary, allot of male animosity,and a taylor.

While you contemplate this, I will figure out why wives don't understand and let you know the result.

If you're only running into "red hot chicks" who only know three chords,
you need to get out more!

-Susan

Next time I come down from the hills on a red hot chick hunt, I'll do my best to find one that knows at least four chords. Lets see, there is E,A,and uh C, and the other one.