Then why read the thread? (Spacey)
In the case of the violin, I would not get the best one, I would say well, I will buy a pretty good one, but we all will see if you really stick with it. Unless it has re-sale value in the future and will be worth more, then a pretty good one may do the trick. It is nice to be promising but until you actually get into the heat of the battle meaning symphonies instead of just local perhaps and orchestras and perhaps play that music for any number of years, being in an orchestra or a symphony even a great one is not the same as being the artist standing up front being the virtuoist playing. And only so much time can be spent on anything especially when college may be coming and well, will it all continue in that way. (I know somewhat since I played in both a junior symphony and a senior symphony orchestra during high school at the same time. Well, the boring afternoon Saturday rehearsal practices got to me as I looked a the sunshine out the window of the place because I was a percussionist and being outside instead of being bored inside while listening to rehearsal again and again and again while waiting to play one cymbal crash - Got To Me! I rather play football with friends and no padding and be tackled, anything except those boring tedious hours I still remember to this day. Fine if it fits someone else, but look man, I was in high-school, there are a million things to do other then make a small sum of money doing nothing most of one of the only days off from school. Get real!) I was a kid!
 
I would think the teacher has some personal feeling about creating a student who makes him/her famous as she took lessons from me. I would be careful about all of that, and the way the child may be used only later to find it all failed down. What is that line in Stargate? Still failing upwards?
 
Who took the poll about which company is more popular or not? I have not seen a link or anythings or anything except some perhaps personal feelings that Fender is more popular than Gibson? Perhaps it is Country Music! I turned on the radio today and took about 10 minutes of it - Drink your beer, chew tobacco, chew tobacco, chew tobacco, spit while praying to the man upstairs. The song before was about loving or liking Christmas Cookies or something, and to tell you the truth, I had to turn off the radio, period.
 
What exact music are you talking about? The fact that musicians are not making as much as they once did, the fact that they may play different instruments in this day and age of other guitar makers, the fact and possibility of the record companies only promoting single artists and certain female singers, or the whole probable ball of bull that inherits this Country lately. And perhaps it depends on what music you are listening too also.
 
The fact that if you read Sweetwater, 60% off on a PRS guitar there, while Gibsons where only 30% off, or the fact that they are just trying to sell the guitars or it's Black Friday week, weekday, weekend, whatever.
 
People buy what they think they can afford most of the time except maybe the ones that run the reality or show or lean towards incompetence like some of the high-ups wherever that is, the fact that some people complain about quality but again it is just another personal feeling, again and again and again.
 
Well, ya, I just bought a Gibson, and no I have not tried a Fender ever, I did once at the jam, just don't fit my clubby keyboard hands like the beef of the neck of my new Gibson does which I am still lowering the action on because it is pleked so I can plink and plunk and puck and tuck and plek, plank plonk, and whatever.

 
Can make up an entire song about any of it I suppose, so back to trying to play guitar. Just don't look for me to be famous.
 
 

spacealf
Then why read the thread? (Spacey)
 
 Who took the poll about which company is more popular or not? I have not seen a link or anythings or anything except some perhaps personal feelings that Fender is more popular than Gibson? Perhaps it is Country Music! I turned on the radio today and took about 10 minutes of it - Drink your beer, chew tobacco, chew tobacco, chew tobacco, spit while praying to the man upstairs.
 

That's easy...for classic tid-bits like that. Things I would never imagine.
 

We'll have to talk about the density also. The density of the wood, whatever, the air of density of this discussion.


http://www.differencebetw...-rosewood-and-mahogany

"However, due to the high demand for mahogany, has led to overlogging of the trees. This has in turn led to CITES listing Swietenia mahagoni on its endangered list, while S. macrophylla King, and S. humilis Zucc are listed as vulnerable."
 
 
The density of a Gibson vs. a Fender with the wood used to make the guitar.
Density!
It's that important.
 
Asian Mahogany vs. Central America or even South American Mahogany.
The Rosewood used in the guitars and last but not least, the maple used in a guitar.
 
Oh, wait, I think Fender uses different wood in their guitars, something like Adler or Basswood or Maple or something like that.
 
Density, as long as the head perhaps is not Dense!
 

spacey
 
 Yes I read it. Maybe you had another reason for stating "throwing money away"...the way I understood it was funny. Sorry. Ok it's not funny any more so I don't know what "throwing money away" means.
 
 

 
So I'll quote myself - "paying for brand name is not as pointless as people make it seem" and "But there's more to "paying for the name" than just throwing away your money".
 
I don't know how else I could word it otherwise.
I did not say paying for brand name IS throwing money away.
I don't know how it could be interpreted as the opposite.
 

spacey
 

I didn't low blow Epiphones.
You stated that you had a half dozen friends that could build guitars for a few hundred dollars...
I thought if you were my friend and you choose to buy Epiphones rather than have me build you one I'd  not be feeling good about the whole thing.
Neither here or there though because I'm not one of them and maybe they don't care for all I know. But I stand by what I said; I'm glad I'm not a friend of yours that builds guitars for a few hundred dollars and finds out you've been buying Epiphones.
If you don't like what I think...nothing I can do about that.
 

Understood that this wasn't low blowing Epiphone. In fact I didn't take it as such - I haven't reached the point of fanboydom where I actually identify with manufacturers.
 
I took it as a personal critic, questioning my decision to buy an Epiphone instead of buying a custom made instrument made by a friend (the critic of Epiphone was implicit I guess, but it didn't bother me). None of that is all that important, but I felt if a statement was to be made, I could at least counter it. 
 
If I pick an Epiphone Les Paul over a custom made Telecaster, it's most likely because I want a Les Paul, not a Tele. At this point I am not really interested in a Telecaster. Neither was I interested in a more custom design.
 
If I bought a cheap tele copy, or if I was to buy a Squier or something, it's very likely that at least one of them would call me on it and suggest building one for me instead. In fact, I know for certain that if I wanted a Tele, I'd ring my old pal James and custom order one because he makes the coolest of all teles I've seen.
 
Plus, as I said, those guys are friends - not salesmen trying to earn a living at my expense. By that logic, they should be at each other's throat over who's going to build me a guitar...

spacey
Rain...it's real simple to me...
If I had a choice between a custom made guitar that a friend of mine could build or an Epiphone
and the money for either is but a few hundred dollars then I would choose the custom made.
You were the one that mentioned you had those options.
Now I'm sorry I did.

You don't have to be sorry, man. Seriously. 
 
Let me phrase it another way - and let that not offend anyone who like them or build them as this is only my opinion: I don't like Telecasters.
 
Most of them I really don't like.
 
A custom tele to me is a potentially high quality version of a bad guitar design.
 
I hate that bridge.
I don't like that metal plate underneath the knobs.
I don't like that thin headstock which looks crippled - aesthetically it's totally unbalanced.
That body shape... To me, it's a clumsy caricature of a Les Paul and/or other classic hollow body designs. 
I don't like "twang".
 
I've come to dislike big pickguards. I just want to see the wood, not hide it under a chunk of plastic. That's valid for Stratocasters, SGs and Teles or any other.
 
I don't like how trendy they've become when every one got tired of strats. When rock musicians became boring and depressed, cut their hair and started dressing like the guy working the pomp at the gas station, the market for Telecaster seemed to sky rocket. 
 
Telecaster and Orange amps...
 
Once in a while I see one that's almost it, but, nah...  
 
That being said, I can also tell that a telecaster is nice - AS a telecaster. 
 
These are a few of the reasons why I'll pick a Epiphone Les Paul ANYTIME before a Telecaster - admitting that I can test it before.
 
As for the rest, you're as free as anyone to express your thoughts here. And you know a lot more about building guitars than I ever will. But I believe I am also able to pick the right guitar for me.
 
And it's all become a moot point since I got the SGJ, anyway. ;)

Here's a case in point...

Here is my Guitar



This is my Tradition MTP-375.  Here is a better picture with more detail...



It is a solid Mahogany Set Neck and Body, in Transparent Black, with a 5/8" Curly Maple Top.
24 Frets, Abalone around Headstock, Neck, and Body.  Abalone and Mother of Pearl
Fret Inlays, Wilkenson Tremelo, I have an EMG 81 in the Bridge Position and stock pickup
in at the Neck.

If I were to go and trade this guitar or sell it, I'd be lucky to get $100, even thought this guitar,
10 years ago sold for $1,300.00.  Why?  Because no one is really familiar with this brand.  It
plays every bit as well, if not better, then a Les Paul or PRS, and sounds every bit equally as 
good, if not better.  But it has no value (perceived) because the BRAND is not popular or known.

Stamp PRS or Gibson on the Headstock.....$5,000.00....

This is the TESTAMENT to the IGNORANCE of Americans and their PERCEPTION of what is "Valuable"...

I'm just saying..

Whelp...I guess I'm a tangent to the above sentiments. Because I PREFER Epiphone to many Gibson products. If we are differentiating between the two. My Epi Nighthawk custom reissue...made in Indonesia...is exemplary. Put together every bit as good as my former PRS Custom 24. Just my opinion. It is also better built than my former Gibson ES339...which I had high hopes would be the end to my search for THE guitar. Ha! The current candidate is a MIJ 58 Strat reissue which I will take delivery on Monday. Fingers crossed. Again.

And speaking of strats...
 
I was quite disappointed the first time I removed the pick guard on my 1994 MIA Fender strat and saw the large chunk of wood they'd taken out - the swimming pool routing they call it, is that it? Doesn't look like particularly fine piece of work. The pick ups were nothing to write home about - quite mediocre in fact.
 
Other than that, it was quite indestructible, played better than any other strat I've played and never gave me any issue - except with the knobs which quickly started falling off. Only recently did it the volume and switch become noisy. 
 
I would NEVER put a Les Paul or a SG throughout a hundredth of what that strat has been through. They're not the fanciest but they're incredibly solid.
 
But with the exception of the electronics and maybe the tuners, I could probably tell you the same of just any old strat, be it made in Japan or in India or in Canada. 
 

Well, I stayed out of this topic (except when I pop in to make an expected stupid, hopefully comedic, comment of course! ), however...  "MY" answer to the OP is this:
 
Before I got my first wonderful chance to get a custom built the way I want, I camped in Guitar Center for hours trying out LOTS of guitars.  I tried out 31 Gibson LP's (Standards and Classics) and MOST of them had some issue (sometimes serious) with them.  The most common was sharp fret edges.  But, the thing that stood out above all else was how each one felt completely different from other, supposedly, equal guitars.  Unfortunately, only TWO really felt like you wanted to take them home, but at $2,350 I had a lot of misgivings and didn't pull the trigger.
 
Remember that I used to have a '76 LP Standard as well as my favorite Studio Double Cut so I was already familiar with how they were supposed to play and feel.  I also had a nice Lonestar Fender Strat (with a full replacement pickguard preloaded with alternative pickups so it was easy to switch from three singles to a fat-strat) so I knew what that was like as well.
 
I ended up buying a sweet LP Classic from a friend in financial trouble instead but, the next time I went into GC, I played a bunch of Strats and was very impressed with how consistently well set up they were and pretty much any of them would have made a nice purchase (for far less than an LP).  My conclusion?  Gibson had a complete let-down in quality control, yet their prices weren't competitive to others that were offering quality for a lot less (Yamaha, Music Man, Ibanez and Schecter all come to mind - and I've had all of these except Yamaha's).
 
So my answer to the OP is "Higher price for lower quality."  Of course, that's all based on the fact that there's really any statistics behind the original assertion to begin with!  LOL.
 
Here were my Gibson LP and Fender Strat:
 
 
 
BTW - The reason I'm not as much of a fan of Epiphones (I've only had one) is that every one I tried would have needed post-sale work to get it to the level I wanted.  Usually this meant upgrading the electronics and replacing the nut at the least.

Finally took the bait Craig? :-)


I believe the Lone Star Strat comes with upgraded Fender pickups. Am I remembering correctly? I know that I hear the difference in pickups and electronics between a MIM Strat, an American and a Am. Deluxe. My last American Deluxe was a real player, it was really hard for me to let than one go. I will own another some day.

I have the same issues with Epi's Craig. By the time I have gutted all of the electronics and pickups, I am back into a lower end LP.

Nice LP Classic by the way. Classic is probably the model I would pick up if I get another LP. You can find some real bargains used right now. I see them at $1,400- $1,600 all day long here, in good shape.

I'm guessing the MIM is cheaper 'cause it's made in Mexico and that's about it.
 
And, I must admit:  I've never had a Tele because...  I've always thought it was butt fugly!   Sorry, but that's my opinion of it.  What ya gonna do? 
 
Now if you really want a quality LP-like instrument for a very attractive price you should check out the Agile and Tokai guitar lines!  (Really.)

craigb
I'm guessing the MIM is cheaper 'cause it's made in Mexico and that's about it.
 
And, I must admit:  I've never had a Tele because...  I've always thought it was butt fugly!   Sorry, but that's my opinion of it.  What ya gonna do? 

Agree with you? :P
 
Ol Pal pointed me to those recently, which I think are some of the better looking tele models:

I still don't like the bridge, I still don't like that plate under the knobs. I am not a fan of strings through... The headstock is the best take on an alternative Tele headstock I have seen. As good as it gets, short of a totally custom.
 
 
That being said, the more I play the SG, the more I get the impression that that's the model I should have been playing all along.
 
If I were to buy a different model or maybe to have one built, these days, I find there's something interesting about this one:

 
Though I can't understand why Fender insist on placing volume control in the way. And that switch could be located elsewhere.
 
And I'm sure if I start messing around with ideas for modes, I'll end up with another Les Paul or a SG.
 
And the MusicMan Armada is one which really caught my eye (though I don't like the inlays):

 

MakeShift
I'm with you guys on Tele's, they just visually don't do a lot for me. 

I do think it is silly to associate different guitars with different genre's of music. However, a LP and a Marshall, the tone to me has always been the classic sound of rock. The LP has just a little more bite and a little more sustain that just does it for me.

Now I know what you guys really thought when I posted my Tele builds....
 
(bold) That says it all. A lot of people relate tones to what was used in the past. A lot aren't and any tones that a guitarist are after can be achieved on many, many different guitars.
 
Times have changed. Choices have grown big time and has opened the door for a player to get whatever it is...based on his abilities and knowledge of creating/hearing tones. Hell it can be done now in the box with a Kay guitar. I know...the tone kings will not agree but I still haven't met one that can tell you what they're hearing unless they've been told.
 
If the only way to get the sound of a Strat or LP was by using either one.........think about that. Where would PRS, Ibanez etc...be? Not to mention custom made guitars.....man what a list this would be if I continued.
There is much more to it than just tone. Much more. If one wants to know what it's like to play a Strat and what they will sound like playing one there is only one way. If one wants the sound of a Strat there are almost endless ways. Now all the players that have stated that pickups and players are the main factors of tones better be careful if they don't agree.
 
 
 
 
 
 
And talk about ugly guitars....that Music Man looks like that fast food Sonic burger sign.

craigb
 
Actually, I just love to drool over look at the fine wood on your projects.

Ditto.
 
And one certainly doesn't need to love something to appreciate. I can appreciate Michelangelo's David even though I am no big fan of male nudity.

Michael,

I am saddened that you think I would feel that way. I have been fascinated by all guitars and anything guitar related since I was 10 years old. Why would I not be genuinely fascinated with the guitars that you are building. Building my own guitar is something that I would like to do myself before I leave this world.

Your craftsmanship is superb. Your threads on building are some of the ones I look forward too. I like McQue's threads on amp building as well. Why would I say something that isn't true or that I don't actually mean or feel?
I actually was going to ask in the other thread, how you route that slot for the truss rod?

I know craftsmanship when I see it. My company employes between 80 - 130 master level carpenters at a given day. We have 2 state of the art Komo CNC mills to route out the parts the carpenters assemble. The projects that we do, most people would probably recognize if I were to mention a few. Everything is high tech these days. So when a guy like yourself comes along and produces everything with his hands, I can find it fascinating on many levels. I have done quite a bit of work with wood myself and I hope to do more of it again as the kids get older and leave the nest.