gustabo
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Re: As we near one year of a subscription model, what say you? Are we better or worse off
2015/11/21 16:50:38
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Every forum has an OCD @ss in it, apparently it's a prerequisite...
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microapp
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Re: As we near one year of a subscription model, what say you? Are we better or worse off
2015/11/21 16:54:10
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Doktor Avalanche
The model could have worked brilliantly if the bug backlog from X3E to X1 (and far far earlier from what I understand) were mostly resolved, or this was a brand new product, sadly there is too crap from past history to clear up... And effectively ignoring most of this is building up a house with flimsy foundations that will eventually fall over ....please remember what I wrote here in case it happens.
Also if there are to be no periodic/regular feature freezes/stability releases, then those of us who don't want to be, will just be condemned to a beta testing roller coaster ride... Rolling backwards or forwards (if able) to whatever middle ground we might be able to cope with. This profile of customer (who is just looking for stability) will eventually pack their bags imho.
I don't particularly like writing this, but that's the truth as I see it. Sorry...
In defense of the Good Doktor and the other 'negative nannies' in this thread, don't you get that we are trying to make Sonar better. I have 40 years of experience in developing hardware and software applications and IIRC, the Doktor has dev experience as well. If I did not think that Sonar has tremendous potential, I would not even take the time to comment here. Listen to the Dok's quote about a foundation. This is simply the way it works. PR and a positive attitude will not solve the issues at hand. I have seen companies/products go under from ignoring the realities. Take ANYTHING sales/PR tells you from ANY company with a very large grain of salt. Even when you really, really, like/need their product. There is an inherent tension, a competition, inside every company between sales/marketing and product development. To succeed, there needs to be a balance between these. In my opinion, after the Gibson acquisition, Cakewalk swung too far to the S/M side. I am(and others are) simply trying to restore a proper balance.
post edited by microapp - 2015/11/21 17:07:02
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Hangdog Cat
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Re: As we near one year of a subscription model, what say you? Are we better or worse off
2015/11/21 17:01:45
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IMHO the subscription model is a big step in the right direction, and although I have no access to inside information, I strongly suspect that CW is allocating their manpower and resources in such a way as to fix what needs fixing ASAP while at the same time rolling out new features to satisfy market demand and remain competitive.
I'm perfectly willing to sit back and enjoy the ride. The view gets better all the time.
Never do more in the morning than you can undo in the afternoon. Computer: Creation Station CS450 V3 64 bit Processor: Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU E3-1275 v3 @ 3.50GHz, 4 Cores, 8 Logical Processors Windows 10: Latest update Audio Interface: RME Fireface UFX
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kevinwal
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Re: As we near one year of a subscription model, what say you? Are we better or worse off
2015/11/21 17:02:33
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Lots of us on here are or were developers with years of experience. I respect your opinion and you've made some telling points in this thread, as has the Dok. My comments refer to the more negative, and more importantly, less helpful posts here. If you thought otherwise, accept my apologies.
No developer likes to ship software with defects, but a company cannot survive if it doesn't ship software, so a line must be drawn where everyone accepts that it is what it is and the software gets shipped. Likewise, a company that can only sell to the existing customer base will die. New features are vital to the life of a product.
We can argue about the balance, but the fact that there is one tells me that they're on the right path.
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sycle1
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Re: As we near one year of a subscription model, what say you? Are we better or worse off
2015/11/21 17:10:44
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☄ Helpfulby charlyg 2015/11/21 18:20:30
I think this years fixes alone are worth the subscription, let alone all the new goodies we get.
I would have updated each year, or every other year anyway.
A great product! I will keep supporting it.
Cheers sycle1 There is no cure for stupidity, I should know!!!
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John T
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Re: As we near one year of a subscription model, what say you? Are we better or worse off
2015/11/21 17:15:03
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This is the thing. There's been a long-ass list of fixes every month all year. If there wasn't, then it might be worth making a fuss about that. But it's just not the case.
http://johntatlockaudio.com/Self-build PC // 16GB RAM // i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz // Nofan 0dB cooler // ASUS P8-Z77 V Pro motherboard // Intel x-25m SSD System Drive // Seagate RAID Array Audio Drive // Windows 10 64 bit // Sonar Platinum (64 bit) // Sonar VS-700 // M-Audio Keystation Pro 88 // KRK RP-6 Monitors // and a bunch of other stuff
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Grizzlylip
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Re: As we near one year of a subscription model, what say you? Are we better or worse off
2015/11/21 17:19:15
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I consider the subscription model (AKA, software "rent to own") model a brilliant success. I love the payment option, Cleverbridges management of said payments, the updates, and the extremely helpful monthly newsletter. I am a weekend warrior who never would have progressed the way I have without these perks (or without this forum). I will be with Splat for the long haul!
Audio Interface: M-Audio Fast Track Ultra Computer: Dell XPS 8700 Windows 10 Processor: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-4790 CPU @ 3.60GHz 3.60 GHz 64-bit operating system, x64-based processor Installed RAM: 8 GB Soundcard: ASIO Monitors: 3 M-Audio + Mackie MR8mk3 DAW: SONAR Platinum Hardware/Controller: Axiom 61 (2nd Gen) + Maschine Studio 2.0 Added Software: Komplete 10
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rivers88
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Re: As we near one year of a subscription model, what say you? Are we better or worse off
2015/11/21 17:55:00
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One lingering gripe for me - I've been a Cakewalk user since it showed up on 3.5" floppies. Been a a participant in most versions since it became "Sonar". But - Even though I've signed up several times over the last several years, I STILL can't seem to get on the distribution list for the the Cakewalk Newsletter!!  But concerning the software & current subscription model - Works for me!! 
post edited by rivers88 - 2015/11/21 18:06:09
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rabeach
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Re: As we near one year of a subscription model, what say you? Are we better or worse off
2015/11/21 18:53:54
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the balance of the three (development, sales and marketing) is where a company remains solvent. it is not people's comments in their respective areas of expertise that is tiresome to me but the evaluation of the company as a whole; e.g. the posting of what if scenarios based on insider information about a company that no one here but the employees have insight into. the so called doomsayer position; that if cakewalk doesn't amend this position they will fail or if they had only done this when... etc. hindsight analysis is useful but to imagine that a company that continues to remain solvent doesn't review past decisions is silly. we are all on the outside looking in. i'm certainly not directing this post at anyone on the forum just expounding on what i find tiresome. must admit though it was much more tiresome during the move from 8.5 to x1 than it is now. please those that have expertise in software development continue to take the time to post your opinions.
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michael diemer
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Re: As we near one year of a subscription model, what say you? Are we better or worse off
2015/11/21 19:00:21
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I'm doing great! (on 8.5 - Mr. Irrelevant strikes again).
michael diemer Intel Quad Core i7-3770 Ivy Bridge 32 GB ram 1TB Western Digital Black X2 Microsoft Windows 7 Pro 64 UR22 interface Bandlab Cakewalk/Sonar 8.5 Studio GPO-EWQLSO Gold-Vienna SP ED-Cinematic Strings 2
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Gary McCoy
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Re: As we near one year of a subscription model, what say you? Are we better or worse off
2015/11/21 19:03:11
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Love it! No real problems. 100% stability. The monthly releases are somethng to look forward to, although I usually only update every 2 or 3 months.
Knock wood.
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backwoods
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Re: As we near one year of a subscription model, what say you? Are we better or worse off
2015/11/21 19:05:41
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Doktor Avalanche 
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Re: As we near one year of a subscription model, what say you? Are we better or worse off
2015/11/21 19:21:05
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Yup and I agree a huge mprovement. Never said it wasn't. It's regrettable that discussions can't take place without being polarised or demonized. That's the really repeatative thing for me.. There is no need to be sensitive we all want this product to succeed. Really happy to listen to opinions here who are not trying to box people in, even the ones I may disagree with... Not going to get into arguements people are dying for me to have... That's their issue.
post edited by Doktor Avalanche - 2015/11/21 19:34:10
Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.6,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),2 x 1TB SSD (Samsung EVO 850),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5. Rap Pro,Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1,Addictive Keys,Waves Silver,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist,Acronis True Image 2015.
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kevinwal
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Re: As we near one year of a subscription model, what say you? Are we better or worse off
2015/11/21 19:27:46
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lol, you just want huger, right? 
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charlyg
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Re: As we near one year of a subscription model, what say you? Are we better or worse off
2015/11/21 20:14:56
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Judging by all of the blocked posts, I'm thinking someone needs a course on how to interact on a forum without setting folks off.... I won't read the blocked posts...................so I could be wrong.
Some daily meditation might help.....
Peace, Love, Led Zeppelin!
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Doktor Avalanche
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Re: As we near one year of a subscription model, what say you? Are we better or worse off
2015/11/21 22:02:02
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kevinwal
lol, you just want huger, right?
Perhaps check my original post..
Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.6,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),2 x 1TB SSD (Samsung EVO 850),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5. Rap Pro,Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1,Addictive Keys,Waves Silver,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist,Acronis True Image 2015.
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stratman70
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Re: As we near one year of a subscription model, what say you? Are we better or worse off
2015/11/21 22:39:41
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Wow-A trip down memory lane-so glad I do not post much anymore-I have been here a lot longer than 2006, but anyway.....
I pretty much feel the way BaPu states it.... so on that note...I am happy with Platinum, paid up front as I always do and cannot comment on "subscription" model because I do not see it that way....Bye
Oh Hi Susan.........been a while
Frank
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kevinwal
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Re: As we near one year of a subscription model, what say you? Are we better or worse off
2015/11/22 00:59:06
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☄ Helpfulby backwoods 2015/11/22 02:44:27
Doktor Avalanche
kevinwal
lol, you just want huger, right?
Perhaps check my original post..
Hey, give me a break, just trying to lighten things up here. Here's the smiley to prove it.
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.
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Re: As we near one year of a subscription model, what say you? Are we better or worse off
2015/11/22 02:19:31
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ello ello ello, what's goin' on 'ere then ay? I think a house call from the Matron might be called for to sort this lot out?
post edited by Matron Landslide - 2015/11/22 02:32:10
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rwheeler
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Re: As we near one year of a subscription model, what say you? Are we better or worse off
2015/11/22 08:04:08
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Better off for sure. Steady improvements and additions all year long consistent with more efficient use of programmer time. Perpetual license immediately with single payment or easy to reach with one year of monthly payments. (Quite the contrast to the awful approach initiated by Adobe. Wish we could get Adobe to follow the excellent example of Cakewalk.)
Of course, the most useful improvement for many of us would be a really effective set of [TALENT ENHANCEMENT] buttons for each stage of the workflow.
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Royal Yaksman
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Re: As we near one year of a subscription model, what say you? Are we better or worse off
2015/11/22 08:43:05
(permalink)
☄ Helpfulby kevinwal 2015/11/22 10:37:35
I'd really love to see what supposedly, bullet proof software, some of these past software devs (who do so much finger pointing) used to work on? If anyone feels like they're not getting their money's worth, it's quite simple. Sit out from upgrading for a year. That turns a $150 per year upgrade into a $75 per year upgrade. Now before anyone chimes in with, "Support the company so they can deliver more stability and better features, etc." Whilst it is true of course companies need money. But if more money equalled more quality, stability and features, in the audio application world? Well Ableton would be the most stable, the most enviable, and the clear cut features leading, DAW of all DAWs. It's not though. None are, really. Just look at all the VS threads on the net! That will tell you all you need to know about that argument. Feel like a once a year upgrade is more marketing, than value?... Sit out a cycle! Cake's membership is one that doesn't penalise you for doing so. It's not like Steinberg, where if you sat out a few releases, you could find yourself paying the same to upgrade as the full program might cost under the right sale circumstances. When you get a Cake survey, tell them why you didn't immediately upgrade. That will do more than whining to fellow users on a user forum. A lot of the complaints in regards to release quality are very generalised. Sure if you are having a problem, log it. Coming on here and saying over and over that it's bad, might seem all well and good. But if you were walking past a fire, whilst fire fighters were in the process of putting that fire out. Would you stop and stand there pointing and saying, "There's a fire! There's a fire! There's a fire!..." If you possess deep task specific (and this means program and protocol specific) knowledge of just exactly how Cake could be doing something better? Give them a call and send them your resume! Otherwise, I am reminded of something a previous boss of mine once said: "Don't just raise your hand and tell us that something is f***ed. If you think something is f***ed? Also tell us exactly how you think we can un-f*** it!" ^^^Funnily enough, this does not mean stating a general, "They should make it more betterer..." I would write some more but I'm off to a department store, that I bought a T-Shirt from. I'm going to stand at their counter and tell them, "You guys should make better quality shirts," over and over and over, until they do... 
Royal Yaksman HP Phoenix i7 3.9ghz 7600 - Roland Quad Capture - CbB - SD2 Metal Foundry/Roots Stix - NI Komplete 8 - Amplitube 3 & 4 - Addictive Drums 2 - Halion 6 - Izotope Musician Bundle - Waves Stuff - Melodyne Studio - AIR 3 - Revoice 3 - Sssshhhhh don't tell anyone but also Studio One 4 - Cubase 9.5 - Samplitude Pro X3 - FL Studio 20 - Mixbus 4 - Reaper 5 - And a big arsed pocket full of dreams (deceased or otherwise.)
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drjee
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Re: As we near one year of a subscription model, what say you? Are we better or worse off
2015/11/22 09:09:52
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Anderton
ampfixer
IN my perfect scenario there would be no new features until all the existing features are bulletproof and operate exactly as described in the docs. That would be bliss but I don't think it will ever happen.
Anderton
The best anyone can hope for is a continuing flow of fixes, combined with enough features to keep those clamoring for new features happy.
Doktor AvalancheHowever ultimately ^^ what you are saying ^^ means we have to accept old bugs will rarely or never get fixed, as there will be hardly any time to do so if new features keep pouring out...
OBVIOUSLY I AM NOT SAYING THAT AT ALL.
- "A continuing flow of fixes" DOES NOT exclude fixing old or long-standing bugs.
- Saying "enough features to keep those clamoring for new features happy" DOES NOT equate to "new features keep pouring out."
And your saying "If there is no developer available then a job should be advertised" is clueless, too. Cakewalk has advertised for developers on the freaking home page hero slider. They still are advertising for developers. In fact there are two openings right now.
https://www.cakewalk.com/Careers
https://www.cakewalk.com/Careers/Gigs
Since it is of such vital importance that you always get the last word, you'll be happy to know I have to take a break from this forum...so I will have no response to whatever you post next. I can handle negativity, even non-constructive criticism from people I respect, but repeating the same thing over and over and over - as if you have some magical power where saying your negative mantras over and over and over again will conjure up developers and resources - is not even worth the time to read.
I don't particularly like writing this, but that's the truth as I see it. Sorry...
The truth as I see it is you should go find software that better fits your needs, and let the musicians who frequent this forum help each other get the most out of SONAR and make music. IMO both of those actions would have a much better chance of changing the world in a positive direction compared to what you're presently doing.
And if people think I'm being mean...I'm human, and can take only so much negativity. My presence here is all about my desire to provide solutions and help people accomplish what they want to accomplish. I bite my tongue a lot in this forum - A LOT - but I'll be damned if I'll sit back and let you put words in my mouth. If anyone has any questions for me about any of the tips or techniques I've presented, you can find me at my forum on Harmony Central.com.
I apologize to all the wonderful people in this forum, but I've had enough and it's going to take me quite a bit of time to cool off.
really, with this kind of treatment of justified critique you are destroying trust in the future of this product. If you are not able to stand critique and learn from it, you are really digging the grave for Cake.
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pwalpwal
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Re: As we near one year of a subscription model, what say you? Are we better or worse off
2015/11/22 09:15:31
(permalink)
drjee
Anderton
ampfixer
IN my perfect scenario there would be no new features until all the existing features are bulletproof and operate exactly as described in the docs. That would be bliss but I don't think it will ever happen.
Anderton
The best anyone can hope for is a continuing flow of fixes, combined with enough features to keep those clamoring for new features happy.
Doktor AvalancheHowever ultimately ^^ what you are saying ^^ means we have to accept old bugs will rarely or never get fixed, as there will be hardly any time to do so if new features keep pouring out...
OBVIOUSLY I AM NOT SAYING THAT AT ALL.
- "A continuing flow of fixes" DOES NOT exclude fixing old or long-standing bugs.
- Saying "enough features to keep those clamoring for new features happy" DOES NOT equate to "new features keep pouring out."
And your saying "If there is no developer available then a job should be advertised" is clueless, too. Cakewalk has advertised for developers on the freaking home page hero slider. They still are advertising for developers. In fact there are two openings right now.
https://www.cakewalk.com/Careers
https://www.cakewalk.com/Careers/Gigs
Since it is of such vital importance that you always get the last word, you'll be happy to know I have to take a break from this forum...so I will have no response to whatever you post next. I can handle negativity, even non-constructive criticism from people I respect, but repeating the same thing over and over and over - as if you have some magical power where saying your negative mantras over and over and over again will conjure up developers and resources - is not even worth the time to read.
I don't particularly like writing this, but that's the truth as I see it. Sorry...
The truth as I see it is you should go find software that better fits your needs, and let the musicians who frequent this forum help each other get the most out of SONAR and make music. IMO both of those actions would have a much better chance of changing the world in a positive direction compared to what you're presently doing.
And if people think I'm being mean...I'm human, and can take only so much negativity. My presence here is all about my desire to provide solutions and help people accomplish what they want to accomplish. I bite my tongue a lot in this forum - A LOT - but I'll be damned if I'll sit back and let you put words in my mouth. If anyone has any questions for me about any of the tips or techniques I've presented, you can find me at my forum on Harmony Central.com.
I apologize to all the wonderful people in this forum, but I've had enough and it's going to take me quite a bit of time to cool off.
really, with this kind of treatment of justified critique you are destroying trust in the future of this product. If you are not able to stand critique and learn from it, you are really digging the grave for Cake.
you heartless monster! craig doesn't get enough sleep, have you seen the timings of his posts?
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John T
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Re: As we near one year of a subscription model, what say you? Are we better or worse off
2015/11/22 09:28:22
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drjee
Anderton
MASSIVE BLOCK OF TEXT THAT I'LL NOT QUOTE AGAIN
really, with this kind of treatment of justified critique you are destroying trust in the future of this product. If you are not able to stand critique and learn from it, you are really digging the grave for Cake.
Nothing Craig has ever posted here has undermined my trust in either him or Cakewalk. And I'm pretty sure your silly assertion here wouldn't survive a show of hands on the question.
post edited by John T - 2015/11/22 09:39:23
http://johntatlockaudio.com/Self-build PC // 16GB RAM // i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz // Nofan 0dB cooler // ASUS P8-Z77 V Pro motherboard // Intel x-25m SSD System Drive // Seagate RAID Array Audio Drive // Windows 10 64 bit // Sonar Platinum (64 bit) // Sonar VS-700 // M-Audio Keystation Pro 88 // KRK RP-6 Monitors // and a bunch of other stuff
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John T
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Re: As we near one year of a subscription model, what say you? Are we better or worse off
2015/11/22 09:31:06
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Royal Yaksman
I'd really love to see what supposedly, bullet proof software, some of these past software devs (who do so much finger pointing) used to work on?
I was thinking something similar. "I'm a dev, so I know what I'm talking about" only really adds up to anything if the track record is impressive. I think our back-seat coders should pony up some credentials.
http://johntatlockaudio.com/Self-build PC // 16GB RAM // i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz // Nofan 0dB cooler // ASUS P8-Z77 V Pro motherboard // Intel x-25m SSD System Drive // Seagate RAID Array Audio Drive // Windows 10 64 bit // Sonar Platinum (64 bit) // Sonar VS-700 // M-Audio Keystation Pro 88 // KRK RP-6 Monitors // and a bunch of other stuff
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Doktor Avalanche
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Re: As we near one year of a subscription model, what say you? Are we better or worse off
2015/11/22 10:08:06
(permalink)
Royal Yaksman
I'd really love to see what supposedly, bullet proof software, some of these past software devs (who do so much finger pointing) used to work on?
John TI was thinking something similar. "I'm a dev, so I know what I'm talking about" only really adds up to anything if the track record is impressive. I think our back-seat coders should pony up some credentials.
I'm a dev however I'm not using that as collateral. I do not work on cakewalk software my business here is purely as a customer. Just see my original post.. which has predictably been blown up, twisted and blasted out of proportion... by design IMHO as the points being made here afterwards have little relevance around it, they seem to be more about the personalities and polarization, rather than a calm and sensible discussion around software.
post edited by Doktor Avalanche - 2015/11/22 10:23:26
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MarioD
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Re: As we near one year of a subscription model, what say you? Are we better or worse off
2015/11/22 10:11:24
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OK back on topic, I pay up front and I am happy with this year's improvements. As a hobbyist I am not a power user so the only real problem I have had this year was with the new start menu. That was not a show stopper and it has been fixed thanks to my friends on this forum.
Bakers keep up the great work.
The reason people say the vinyl sounds better is because the music was better. Sonar Platinum, Intel i7 –2600 CPU @ 3.2 GHz, 16 GB ram, 2x2TB internal drives and 1 1TB internal drive, Radeon HD 5570 video card, HP 25" monitor,
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John T
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Re: As we near one year of a subscription model, what say you? Are we better or worse off
2015/11/22 10:12:24
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Doktor Avalanche
it's more about the personalities than a discussion around software.
That's definitely true, though I think not in the way you intend to mean.
http://johntatlockaudio.com/Self-build PC // 16GB RAM // i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz // Nofan 0dB cooler // ASUS P8-Z77 V Pro motherboard // Intel x-25m SSD System Drive // Seagate RAID Array Audio Drive // Windows 10 64 bit // Sonar Platinum (64 bit) // Sonar VS-700 // M-Audio Keystation Pro 88 // KRK RP-6 Monitors // and a bunch of other stuff
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Doktor Avalanche
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Re: As we near one year of a subscription model, what say you? Are we better or worse off
2015/11/22 10:17:09
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Doktor Avalanche
it's more about the personalities than a discussion around software.
John T
That's definitely true, though I think not in the way you intend to mean.
Well of course if you use half a quote it's not going to be meant as intended is it? (Admittedly I was editing the comment). Doktor Avalanche
by design IMHO as the points being made here afterwards have little relevance around it, they seem to be more about the personalities and polarization, rather than a calm and sensible discussion around software.
post edited by Doktor Avalanche - 2015/11/22 10:28:40
Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.6,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),2 x 1TB SSD (Samsung EVO 850),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5. Rap Pro,Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1,Addictive Keys,Waves Silver,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist,Acronis True Image 2015.
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John T
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Re: As we near one year of a subscription model, what say you? Are we better or worse off
2015/11/22 10:19:52
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The addition of that bit doesn't change my reply.
http://johntatlockaudio.com/Self-build PC // 16GB RAM // i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz // Nofan 0dB cooler // ASUS P8-Z77 V Pro motherboard // Intel x-25m SSD System Drive // Seagate RAID Array Audio Drive // Windows 10 64 bit // Sonar Platinum (64 bit) // Sonar VS-700 // M-Audio Keystation Pro 88 // KRK RP-6 Monitors // and a bunch of other stuff
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