GregGraves
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Re: Cakewalk Announces Simpler SONAR Prices
2017/04/06 21:04:25
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I interpreted the "lifetime updates" as being Roland's way of saying Cakewalk was going out of business.
And then I got hurt.
At no time did I imagine that my "annual contribution" to keep Cakewalk alive was going to drastically increase from what I've always paid. I'm pretty sure that if I had known that a BIG price increase was going down, I would have jumped on the "lifetime" deal. I didn't see that "lifetime" deal as sustainable for Cakewalk any more than the new price structure turning folks away. It all seems stupid.
And I guess I am stupid for not seeing that the stupid plan was less stupid than the alternative stupid plan.
Stupid me.
Its like somebody in Corporate headquarters has said to themselves, "How can I totally screw up this company and make it fail?".
Whatever.
I'd like to hope that Cakewalk would look at how long I've been with them, and offer me the lifetime deal just because they love me.
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The Grim 
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Re: Cakewalk Announces Simpler SONAR Prices
2017/04/06 22:52:28
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GregGraves
I interpreted the "lifetime updates" as being Roland's way of saying Cakewalk was going out of business.
probably just a brain fart, but roland didn't own cakewalk when the lifetime updates were introduced, it was gibson. having said that i have read a number of times on different forums people thinking along the same lines as your interpretation in the quoted sentence, but as yet it hasn't happened.
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GregGraves
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Re: Cakewalk Announces Simpler SONAR Prices
2017/04/07 00:51:32
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I guess everything is owned by Exxon-Mobil anyway so .....
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Brian Walton
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Re: Cakewalk Announces Simpler SONAR Prices
2017/04/07 14:07:50
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☄ Helpfulby Alex Westner [Cakewalk] 2017/04/07 15:38:25
HARDDRlVER
I need to clarify a phrase I mentioned earlier. I said 'it is the lifetime updaters who have carried cakewalk'...what I meant by that was that it's been the people who have been paying for updates their whole lives...they are truly the 'lifetime' updaters. And it's not so much bragging rights for buying lifetime updates as it is...I almost feel guilty..walking in on the show, and learning what's taken place for so long. Especially hearing current upgrade pricing is half the full price of a new product. That means you're paying the full price every two years, unless I'm missing something
Most customers didn't upgrade every single year, those people are in the minority. Also virtually every year they offered sizable discounts to upgrade. GregGraves
I'd like to hope that Cakewalk would look at how long I've been with them, and offer me the lifetime deal just because they love me.
They did, and you balked at it. However, you speak of the dramatic increase...they have also stated they expect to have periodic discounts, just like they always have. I don't really expect all that much to change.
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pwalpwal
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Re: Cakewalk Announces Simpler SONAR Prices
2017/04/07 14:56:44
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Brian Walton
Most customers didn't upgrade every single year, those people are in the minority.
i used to, sonars v1-v8.5 (note: versions, not years) only skipping v2 as i had so much to learn from 1xl, until the x series - i think a bunch of the forum regulars also upgraded every version, i expect a chunk of those users are now "lifetime" owners
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dcumpian
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Re: Cakewalk Announces Simpler SONAR Prices
2017/04/07 15:24:10
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pwalpwal
Brian Walton
Most customers didn't upgrade every single year, those people are in the minority.
i used to, sonars v1-v8.5 (note: versions, not years) only skipping v2 as i had so much to learn from 1xl, until the x series - i think a bunch of the forum regulars also upgraded every version, i expect a chunk of those users are now "lifetime" owners
On average, it was $99 to stay up to date, year after year. I would do every other version occasionally, and it would cost $149. So now, without lifetime updates, you are looking at $199/year, with a likely discount to $149 sometime during the year. I don't see that as all that terrible. That's about on par with other major DAW's. Dan
post edited by dcumpian - 2017/04/07 19:49:19
Mixing is all about control. My music: http://dancumpian.bandcamp.com/ or https://soundcloud.com/dcumpian Studiocat Advanced Studio DAW (Intel i5 3550 @ 3.7GHz, Z77 motherboard, 16GB Ram, lots of HDDs), Sonar Plat, Mackie 1604, PreSonus Audiobox 44VSL, ESI 4x4 Midi Interface, Ibanez Bass, Custom Fender Mexi-Strat, NI S88, Roland JV-2080 & MDB-1, Komplete, Omnisphere, Lots o' plugins.
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Starise
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Re: Cakewalk Announces Simpler SONAR Prices
2017/04/07 15:35:00
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I think the GP will be more on board with the new paradigim as time goes on. Cakewalk aren't the only ones doing it.
The others come up with version 6 over version 5, make you want it so bad you have to have it. You get it and then they come out with version 7. Then they give you crossgrade and upgrade pricing. When cakewalk did this I considered it a Christmas present to myself every year since it was usually around the beginning of the year. So instead it might be a year end sale on a 12 month extension and unlike some of the others, bug fixes and new ideas come up every month. At the end of the day I don't see the two being much different from one another in terms of cash outlay.
It's all matter of how you choose to rationalize it.
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tenfoot
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Re: Cakewalk Announces Simpler SONAR Prices
2017/04/07 18:55:52
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dcumpian
So now, without lifetime updates, you are looking at $199/year, with a likely discount to $1490 sometime during the year.
That $1490 deal must include the bonus hover car, talent button and coffee mug Dan:)
Bruce. Sonar Platinum 2017-09, Studio One 3.5.3, Win 10 x64, Quad core i7, RME Fireface, Behringer X32 Producer, Behringer X32 Rack, Presonus Faderport, Lemure Software Controller (Android), Enttec DMXIS VST lighting controller, Xtempo POK.
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dcumpian
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Re: Cakewalk Announces Simpler SONAR Prices
2017/04/07 19:49:46
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tenfoot
dcumpian
So now, without lifetime updates, you are looking at $199/year, with a likely discount to $1490 sometime during the year.
That $1490 deal must include the bonus hover car, talent button and coffee mug Dan:)
Lol, fixed...oh these fat fingers... Dan
Mixing is all about control. My music: http://dancumpian.bandcamp.com/ or https://soundcloud.com/dcumpian Studiocat Advanced Studio DAW (Intel i5 3550 @ 3.7GHz, Z77 motherboard, 16GB Ram, lots of HDDs), Sonar Plat, Mackie 1604, PreSonus Audiobox 44VSL, ESI 4x4 Midi Interface, Ibanez Bass, Custom Fender Mexi-Strat, NI S88, Roland JV-2080 & MDB-1, Komplete, Omnisphere, Lots o' plugins.
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ampfixer
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Re: Cakewalk Announces Simpler SONAR Prices
2017/04/08 16:16:34
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This could all be part of a strategy to give Sonar a more "professional" image. When I bought 8.5 it was because I got so much for so little. It was the very best deal I could find. If I thought that I'd have to shell out $250 every year to stay current I'd never have bought it. However, there are a lot of people that think if something is affordable it can't be professional. Perhaps the Cake team has decided that they are the best and should start charging accordingly. At the end of the day it's all speculation.
Regards, John I want to make it clear that I am an Eedjit. I have no direct, or indirect, knowledge of business, the music industry, forum threads or the meaning of life. I know about amps. WIN 10 Pro X64, I7-3770k 16 gigs, ASUS Z77 pro, AMD 7950 3 gig, Steinberg UR44, A-Pro 500, Sonar Platinum, KRK Rokit 6
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lfm
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Re: Cakewalk Announces Simpler SONAR Prices
2017/04/10 09:34:17
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Brian Walton
HARDDRlVER
I need to clarify a phrase I mentioned earlier. I said 'it is the lifetime updaters who have carried cakewalk'...what I meant by that was that it's been the people who have been paying for updates their whole lives...they are truly the 'lifetime' updaters. And it's not so much bragging rights for buying lifetime updates as it is...I almost feel guilty..walking in on the show, and learning what's taken place for so long. Especially hearing current upgrade pricing is half the full price of a new product. That means you're paying the full price every two years, unless I'm missing something
Most customers didn't upgrade every single year, those people are in the minority. Also virtually every year they offered sizable discounts to upgrade.
And why some of us did not upgrade - the bugs we reported were not fixed!!!! Why pay and still have the same problems in there? I stayed on Sonar 4 until 8.5(wanted x64) because of that - quite a bit of money lost compared to if I upgraded. That is 4-5 upgrade money lost. And on X-series it wasn't until X3 was release I felt Cake meant business. Overall Cake seems to have better ideas than userbase - so they also leave feature request unnoticed. I think Sonar is such a nice daw it deserves better management, I dare say. Withholding info about Mac version for so long make me speculate Cake is about to sold off - again....I mean simple info does not need deadlines, but signing deals do.
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zoffmeister
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Re: Cakewalk Announces Simpler SONAR Prices
2017/04/12 23:59:00
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My most recent one year subscription ended with 16.07. I have seen nothing in the updates since then to make me desperate to jump back in. I'm waiting for them to sort out the mess that is Theme Editor. The fact that as soon as you touch Theme Editor, track strip colours are removed makes it completely unusable. They have shown absolutely no inclination to even acknowledge the issue, despite many comments. And like I say, I have seen nothing in the monthly updates since then that make me think I'm missing out on something. They're going to have to make things a hell of a lot more compelling at this new disgraceful upgrade price.
SONAR Platinum 1607, Windows 10 Pro, i7 6700K 16GB Ram 3.4Ghz 256GB SSD C: Drive, 525GB SSD VI's, 2TB Audio Drive Interface: UA Apollo Firewire, UAD2 Quad PCIe Mackie Control, C4 and two extenders. Studiologic SL990 Pro keyboard controller
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Re: Cakewalk Announces Simpler SONAR Prices
2017/04/13 00:08:04
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zoffmeister
My most recent one year subscription ended with 16.07. I have seen nothing in the updates since then to make me desperate to jump back in. I'm waiting for them to sort out the mess that is Theme Editor. The fact that as soon as you touch Theme Editor, track strip colours are removed makes it completely unusable. They have shown absolutely no inclination to even acknowledge the issue, despite many comments. And like I say, I have seen nothing in the monthly updates since then that make me think I'm missing out on something. They're going to have to make things a hell of a lot more compelling at this new disgraceful upgrade price.
I agree it's up to us to deliver a compelling value for you to renew. As far as "this new disgraceful upgrade price", for you, this would be a change from $199 to $249, about a 25% increase. I guess disgraceful is a relative term, but we'll just have to agree to disagree. I've also promised we'd run promotions from time to time. Heck, we're running one now even to give you an additional 10% off any edition of SONAR. Fact is, we're not delivering the features you're personally interested in, so the price discussion is moot.
Alex Westner VP Product Strategy & Innovation
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ampfixer
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Re: Cakewalk Announces Simpler SONAR Prices
2017/04/13 02:11:19
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☄ Helpfulby Ham N Egz 2017/05/01 14:48:34
Good to see you can be polite while telling a customer to hit the road.
Regards, John I want to make it clear that I am an Eedjit. I have no direct, or indirect, knowledge of business, the music industry, forum threads or the meaning of life. I know about amps. WIN 10 Pro X64, I7-3770k 16 gigs, ASUS Z77 pro, AMD 7950 3 gig, Steinberg UR44, A-Pro 500, Sonar Platinum, KRK Rokit 6
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Re: Cakewalk Announces Simpler SONAR Prices
2017/04/13 14:51:41
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ampfixer
Good to see you can be polite while telling a customer to hit the road.
Sorry if I came across that way. I was just trying to validate that the customer doesn't see the value in what we've been doing - he's making a fair point. I don't want him to "hit the road" at all - I hope someday soon we're able to deliver something that he values; if he doesn't, then he still has a great product to use as long as he wants.
Alex Westner VP Product Strategy & Innovation
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coolbass
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Re: Cakewalk Announces Simpler SONAR Prices
2017/04/13 18:10:00
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Alex Westner [Cakewalk]
ampfixer
Good to see you can be polite while telling a customer to hit the road.
Sorry if I came across that way. I was just trying to validate that the customer doesn't see the value in what we've been doing
You are doing great, aren't you? The once excellent Cakewalk phone support seems to be a thing of the past, according to people on this forum, and now a 25% increase in price to stay current for a year. Way to go!
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Re: Cakewalk Announces Simpler SONAR Prices
2017/04/13 18:31:08
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coolbass
Alex Westner [Cakewalk]
ampfixer
Good to see you can be polite while telling a customer to hit the road.
Sorry if I came across that way. I was just trying to validate that the customer doesn't see the value in what we've been doing
You are doing great, aren't you?
The once excellent Cakewalk phone support seems to be a thing of the past, according to people on this forum, and now a 25% increase in price to stay current for a year.
Way to go!
Sarcasm is neither productive nor appreciated. I'm happy to talk with you offline if you like - feel free to message me.
Alex Westner VP Product Strategy & Innovation
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coolbass
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Re: Cakewalk Announces Simpler SONAR Prices
2017/04/14 12:56:37
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I think this whole thing is a mistake.
It seems to me this way staying current with Sonar for a year will cost more than with Cubase Pro, Pro Tools vanilla, Reaper, Logic.....
Why?
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JClosed
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Re: Cakewalk Announces Simpler SONAR Prices
2017/05/01 14:41:42
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Hmm... Well... I never got any mails from Cakewalk containing that information, although I have several times clicked on that "mail me please" button. Sigh...
That way I missed the first opportunity to get the life-time subscription. I was a bit disappointed, but hey.. It happens. Time goes on, and still got not mails from Cakewalk, so I did not knew the offer was prolonged (I do not visit this site very often any more), and yep you guessed.. again too late.
Now - I have taken a monthly subscription on Platinum after a few years not using sonar (I have started with Sonar 6 and ended with X1). That was on my birthday in April 2015, and I cancelled my subscription just at the end of April this year, thinking I could renew it at any time if I want.
You guessed it - I also got no mail about this new renewal scheme, so I did not know I could not "jump back in" again for a modest monthly fee. I just visited this forum since a long time and noticed this subject.
Well - I have Platinum 2017 April, and I guess that's what it will be forever. I simply cannot afford to "buy in" again, and I have missed the opportunity to take that "life time" offer. That's life...
No bad feelings, but I guess I will now concentrate more on my other DAW's (Cubase, Ableton Live). It will be strange to leave the "Cakewalk family" after so many years, but I wish them all the best.
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Re: Cakewalk Announces Simpler SONAR Prices
2017/05/01 15:47:56
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☄ Helpfulby ampfixer 2017/05/01 15:49:05
JClosed
Hmm... Well... I never got any mails from Cakewalk containing that information, although I have several times clicked on that "mail me please" button. Sigh...
That way I missed the first opportunity to get the life-time subscription. I was a bit disappointed, but hey.. It happens. Time goes on, and still got not mails from Cakewalk, so I did not knew the offer was prolonged (I do not visit this site very often any more), and yep you guessed.. again too late.
Now - I have taken a monthly subscription on Platinum after a few years not using sonar (I have started with Sonar 6 and ended with X1). That was on my birthday in April 2015, and I cancelled my subscription just at the end of April this year, thinking I could renew it at any time if I want.
You guessed it - I also got no mail about this new renewal scheme, so I did not know I could not "jump back in" again for a modest monthly fee. I just visited this forum since a long time and noticed this subject.
Well - I have Platinum 2017 April, and I guess that's what it will be forever. I simply cannot afford to "buy in" again, and I have missed the opportunity to take that "life time" offer. That's life...
No bad feelings, but I guess I will now concentrate more on my other DAW's (Cubase, Ableton Live). It will be strange to leave the "Cakewalk family" after so many years, but I wish them all the best.
I'm sorry you were having problems receiving emails from us. I'm going to look into this, as we've heard this from a few other customers as well. I'll reach out to you offline as well.
Alex Westner VP Product Strategy & Innovation
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bsantini99
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Re: Cakewalk Announces Simpler SONAR Prices
2017/05/01 15:58:40
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If you really want the lifetime updates offer, I'm sure it will come around again. The prior promotion was just a cash grab to fund mac development and to keep the updates going. It will be back again when they need more money because nobody will pay these new prices. There has been nothing in recent updates to justify paying these prices. I too am disappointed in CW over the past year. Just look at the botched sonar4mac campaign as one example. A lot of people ponied up for the lifetime updates, which I'm glad I passed on, thinking they were going to get a free native mac version as well. Also, now they announce they will no longer be charging for mp3 encoding after hitting their customers up for an extra $10 for this over the years. I get the licensing issue but my other daws have included this in the core product at no extra charge for years. I still have SPlat, but it will not be my main daw going forward. I will not update it unless I see some compelling reason to do so. Sonar has gone nowhere recently in terms of social media interest whereas Cubase, FL Studio, and Abelton continue to gain ground and will probably be better funded going forward. I prefer Cubase or FL Studio over Sonar given the choice, but if you want to get back on board with Sonar just wait for the lifetime updates offer to come around again.
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Paul G
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Re: Cakewalk Announces Simpler SONAR Prices
2017/05/01 16:36:05
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Alex Westner [Cakewalk]
I'm sorry you were having problems receiving emails from us. I'm going to look into this, as we've heard this from a few other customers as well. I'll reach out to you offline as well.
Hi Alex. If you're looking into this, I'd like to throw my hat in the ring as well. I had always received the emails until sometime past year. Then they just stopped. Thanks. Paul
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azslow3
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Re: Cakewalk Announces Simpler SONAR Prices
2017/05/01 17:35:11
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bsantini99
The prior promotion was just a cash grab to fund mac development
It is nice in case Cubase and FL Studio work fine for you. But your Crystal Ball probably has an alpha version firmware  As explained in the corresponding thread, no significant resourced was invested into mac development. By definition of the technology used to create Sonar4mac.
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JayCee99
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Re: Cakewalk Announces Simpler SONAR Prices
2017/05/01 18:42:16
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My goodness people. . . it's just a software program. Please drop the whole "woe is me" attitude. I wonder how some of you cope with day-to-day life and its disappointments if you get this wound up over something so trivial. Are the people complaining actually making any music? I kind of doubt it.
If you didn't want to have financial uncertainty for updates, you probably should have purchased the lifetime updates. If you now regret that decision, then that sucks for you.
Alex Westner, I know you have good intentions but there are always going to be people raising hell every time anything changes. Coming on the user forums and engaging them just drags it out and encourages it. I would question if it really has a positive impact on your business versus spending your time doing other things!
Sonar Platinum Audio Interface: Focusrite 18i8 ASIO Interface Keys: Korg Kronos 88, Alesis VI25 Windows 8.1 x64 Laptop, 8GB RAM, i7 CPU
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Anderton
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Re: Cakewalk Announces Simpler SONAR Prices
2017/05/01 19:11:43
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bsantini99
If you really want the lifetime updates offer, I'm sure it will come around again. PM me if you want to place a bet.  There has been nothing in recent updates to justify paying these prices. If you don't use the Matrix View, MIDI, Bluetooth MIDI peripherals, linear-phase processors, comping, lenses, Windows laptops, Melodyne, Console 1, CPU-hungry plug-ins, themes, or TH3, browser improvements, and don't want bug fixes, I can understand your point. A lot of people ponied up for the lifetime updates, which I'm glad I passed on, thinking they were going to get a free native mac version as well. I don't think it's Cakewalk's fault if "a lot of people" didn't read what Cakewalk said in very specific terms about what was being offered. Also, now they announce they will no longer be charging for mp3 encoding after hitting their customers up for an extra $10 for this over the years. I get the licensing issue but my other daws have included this in the core product at no extra charge for years. You paid for it because it was built into the price. The difference is that Cakewalk users didn't have to pay for it if they didn't want to, or didn't need it.
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Brando
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Re: Cakewalk Announces Simpler SONAR Prices
2017/05/01 20:00:37
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Anderton
The difference is that Cakewalk users didn't have to pay for it if they didn't want to, or didn't need it.
Or didn't need to pay (as an included cost) each time they bought a new version of their DAW, for that matter... I appreciate the fact that I bought the Cakewalk encoder one time years ago, and never had to pay for it again. Many have criticised Cake for not including the encoder in the cost of SONAR - to me it always seemed far wiser to pay for it once as an add-on rather than over and over each release as part of the cost (albeit a small one) of the over-all product. I wonder if the prices of the other DAWs that have included it all along are going to decrease to reflect the fact that the patent has expired?
Brando
Cakewalk, Studio One Pro, Reaper Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL ASUS Prime Z370-A LGA1151, 32GB DDR4, Intel 8700K i7, 500 GB SSD, 3 x 1TB HDD, Windows 10 Pro 64
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interpolated
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Re: Cakewalk Announces Simpler SONAR Prices
2017/05/01 20:08:39
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MP3 encoding can be done with many utilities outside of your DAW, so that's never been my main issue. MP3 is more a format for size convenience and FLAC/APE are always better for quality while saving on final size.
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Re: Cakewalk Announces Simpler SONAR Prices
2017/05/01 20:26:39
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☄ Helpfulby tenfoot 2017/05/02 00:06:26
rlared
My goodness people. . . it's just a software program. Please drop the whole "woe is me" attitude. I wonder how some of you cope with day-to-day life and its disappointments if you get this wound up over something so trivial. Are the people complaining actually making any music? I kind of doubt it.
If you didn't want to have financial uncertainty for updates, you probably should have purchased the lifetime updates. If you now regret that decision, then that sucks for you.
Alex Westner, I know you have good intentions but there are always going to be people raising hell every time anything changes. Coming on the user forums and engaging them just drags it out and encourages it. I would question if it really has a positive impact on your business versus spending your time doing other things!
I hear you, and I used to think more similarly to you a while back, but I've learned that we're better off engaging with our customers and learning from their gripes. I've helped a number of customers offline from threads started on forums, Facebook, Twitter and our blog. I believe that more engagement with customers will have positive impact on our business.
Alex Westner VP Product Strategy & Innovation
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ampfixer
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Re: Cakewalk Announces Simpler SONAR Prices
2017/05/01 20:53:53
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I think it's already having a positive impact.
Regards, John I want to make it clear that I am an Eedjit. I have no direct, or indirect, knowledge of business, the music industry, forum threads or the meaning of life. I know about amps. WIN 10 Pro X64, I7-3770k 16 gigs, ASUS Z77 pro, AMD 7950 3 gig, Steinberg UR44, A-Pro 500, Sonar Platinum, KRK Rokit 6
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tenfoot
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Re: Cakewalk Announces Simpler SONAR Prices
2017/05/02 00:18:41
(permalink)
Great call Alex. Even though there is certainly no shortage of people who will always complain it is brilliant to see continuing active engagement from Cakewalk. Given the years that the company has been around it is self evident that disgruntled customers must be the exception rather than the norm.
Bruce. Sonar Platinum 2017-09, Studio One 3.5.3, Win 10 x64, Quad core i7, RME Fireface, Behringer X32 Producer, Behringer X32 Rack, Presonus Faderport, Lemure Software Controller (Android), Enttec DMXIS VST lighting controller, Xtempo POK.
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