Cakewalk By Roland - It Has Begun!!!

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Keni
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RE: Cakewalk By Roland - It Has Begun!!! 2008/01/27 14:38:31 (permalink)
Yes... I just saw the ad for their (edirol) new 16 i/o totally digital mixer for Sonar....

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#61
jambrose@cfl.rr.com
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RE: Cakewalk By Roland - It Has Begun!!! 2008/01/27 14:41:51 (permalink)
Cool.



ORIGINAL: space_cowboy

Capitalism is the instrument of democracy. It allows people to chose by voting with their money. People that are anti-capitalism must not understand the linkage between capitalism, democracy and freedom of choice.

Read this book
Free To Choose

The next time you are upset about the price of gasoline, oil or something else that a cartel or monopoly is involved with, or the next time you choose an item on sale versus a full cost one, you are exercizing capitalism. It is an integral part of our lives in the US.

THis is not a pro-democrat or pro-republican philosophy. It is what America is founded on. Or was.




Joe

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#62
Keni
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RE: Cakewalk By Roland - It Has Begun!!! 2008/01/27 14:42:26 (permalink)
I think it's a GOOD idea as Roland has always specialized in the hardware... Their' forays into software (such as muse and their' other early midi sequencer) didn't cut the mustard.....

Having two specialized companies put their' efforts together is a GOOD idea....

The same with SSL purchasing Soundscape and integrating it into their' software end... Taking advantage of specialized work!


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#63
riojazz
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RE: Cakewalk By Roland - It Has Begun!!! 2008/01/27 14:43:38 (permalink)
Unless I missed something, SF_Green, it looks to me like 100% of those Roland categories in your breakdown deal with music.

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#64
SF_Green
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RE: Cakewalk By Roland - It Has Begun!!! 2008/01/27 15:20:59 (permalink)
Yes - the first category (40% of their business) - computer peripherals, is about large scale printers. Look at the web page. It's for making pre-made billboards on vinyl sheets. If you look at their financial report, this segment of Roland has been growing rapidly, while the music side of their business actually shrunk from 2006 to 2007 according to their 2007 Annual Report.

Computer peripherals page:
http://www.rolanddg.com/

Annual report:
http://www.roland.com/about/en/
both the annual report and company profile are available as pdf's at the bottom of this page.


People are right about one thing, it's wait and see now. But it sounds like at least one other person here, Scottfa, knows what the corporate world is like, and his post was right on the money. What he didn't mention was what those sorts of measures do to morale at a company.

And Geokauf, you missed the point. Yes, HP's actions did improve my part of the company (the remainder of HP hasn't faired quite as well though). The point being, that the situation of Roland buying/acquiring Cakewalk, is the OPPOSITE of the spin-off of Agilent from HP. And that wasn't the first time for me. I also previously worked for ICI Industries when it spun off it's bio division into Zeneca Pharmaceuticals. In both instances, those moves were good for the companies. You can bemoan me relating my personal experience, but I believe it is relevant here. I have seen first hand 2 corporate restructurings in the 'splitting apart' direction, and it is good for most everyone involved. Corporate mergers and acquisitions are the opposite and the smaller company almost always suffers in the end, and eventually so do the customers of the smaller company because of decreased competition and pressure from their new owners for increased revenue and increased cost savings. Like many here have said, hopefully we at least get a few benefits from tighter integration between SW and HW.

But for a final point to consider - what will Cakewalk (by Roland) be able to do now that they weren't able to do with the existing collaboration they had in place with Roland? We were already getting some nice plugs and synths from Roland, there was already collaboration on integrating hardware and software. These are things that benefited Cakewalk's customers - everybody was happy. How does Roland's acquisition of Cakewalk, in lieu of the previous close collaboration and minor share of the company, do anything to benefit the loyal customers of Cakewalk?

And on that note I will be quiet, sit back, and wait to see what the future brings. I remain hopeful, yet skeptical and disappointed.



"Optimistic" - radiohead

Flies are buzzing around my head
Vultures circling the dead
Picking up every last crumb
The big fish eat the little ones
The big fish eat the little ones
Not my problem give me some

You can try the best you can
If you try the best you can
The best you can is good enough



post edited by SF_Green - 2008/01/27 15:42:58

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#65
tor
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RE: Cakewalk By Roland - It Has Begun!!! 2008/01/27 15:25:17 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: space_cowboy

Capitalism is the instrument of democracy. It allows people to chose by voting with their money. People that are anti-capitalism must not understand the linkage between capitalism, democracy and freedom of choice.

Read this book
Free To Choose

The next time you are upset about the price of gasoline, oil or something else that a cartel or monopoly is involved with, or the next time you choose an item on sale versus a full cost one, you are exercizing capitalism. It is an integral part of our lives in the US.

THis is not a pro-democrat or pro-republican philosophy. It is what America is founded on. Or was.




I'm sorry, but this is not quite right... Capitalism is NOT the instrument of democracy, in the long run it actually perverts democracy...
#66
robby
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RE: Cakewalk By Roland - It Has Begun!!! 2008/01/27 15:40:08 (permalink)
LOL! From each according to his means? To each according to his needs commerade?
#67
SF_Green
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RE: Cakewalk By Roland - It Has Begun!!! 2008/01/27 15:50:53 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: wormser


ORIGINAL: vintagevibe

Here's an example of a good acquisition result: No matter what you think of Digidesign, M-Audio has come out with an slew of excellent products since DD bought them. They have indeed flourished.


I'm pretty much an anti capitalist, however your statement is a true one.
I've given this some thought and two major companies come to mind which have a long history of buying/merging/investing in etc smaller companies, then milking them dry and in effect destroying them, IBM and Microsoft.

Of course this happens all the time, but IBM and Microsoft wrote the book on it and have been doing it for decades.

I am skeptical, however I do think this deal might be a good thing for us.

Maybe Roland will come out with a mid priced console, complete with flat screen, running Sonar?
That would be nice :)

quote:

ORIGINAL: vintagevibe

Here's an example of a good acquisition result: No matter what you think of Digidesign, M-Audio has come out with an slew of excellent products since DD bought them. They have indeed flourished.


You're right - they have come out with some new and innovative products, but the quality of their products has suffered. And their support is getting very bad, especially in keeping drivers up to date.

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#68
Dickie Fredericks
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RE: Cakewalk By Roland - It Has Begun!!! 2008/01/27 20:17:25 (permalink)
This is a very funny thread. Its as if some of the folks using the product feel they have ownership in the company. Brand loyalty is cool but I dont care what you say. If I owned a company and I built it as far as I felt I could on my own and, a larger comapny wanted to buy part if not all of it, Id sell.

So no one here wants to cash in on their hard work? Gimme a break.

Do you really think this is gonna be a bad thing? Did you not see this coming? I did. Look at the ads and how they are targeting the Digi user.

Cakewalk has got to partner with someone large (like Roland) in order for the tide to turn and actually make Cakewalk products compete with Digi on a larger scale. I applaud a merger and champion the idea thatmaybe in the future Cakewalk products will be the norm in larger studios and not Digi.

I hate PT. Id love to see Cakewalk/Roland burn em at the stake.

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#69
wormser
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RE: Cakewalk By Roland - It Has Begun!!! 2008/01/27 20:32:15 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: Dickie Fredericks

This is a very funny thread. Its as if some of the folks using the product feel they have ownership in the company. Brand loyalty is cool but I dont care what you say. If I owned a company and I built it as far as I felt I could on my own and, a larger comapny wanted to buy part if not all of it, Id sell.

So no one here wants to cash in on their hard work? Gimme a break.



Amen brother!
This is just like the basement dwellers in the Linux community.
These bozos will squawk incessintaly about why companies like Nvidia, ATI shoulf open source their technoclogy, yet when asked to give up THEIR programs they hide behind a 100 excuses.

Currently there is a total bozo called [homer] over in comp.os.linux.advocacy who will not release the source code to a script he uses to *document* the groups useage yet he is the first in line asking Nvidia to give up their trade secrets in the name of open source.

Total hypocrites the entire lot of them are.
#70
John
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RE: Cakewalk By Roland - It Has Begun!!! 2008/01/27 20:53:02 (permalink)
I'm sorry, but this is not quite right... Capitalism is NOT the instrument of democracy, in the long run it actually perverts democracy...

Right! Where on earth did you come up with that? Also, what would be a viable alternative?

Best
John
#71
space_cowboy
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RE: Cakewalk By Roland - It Has Begun!!! 2008/01/27 22:10:29 (permalink)
SOrry but I actually studied economics in grad school. I am not just repeating some dumb rant. Democracy is founded on choice. We choose with our wallets who wins and who loses. Products succeed because we choose them. They fail because we dont.

If anyone believes that democracy and capitalism are not intricately interwoven, they do not understand what capitalism is. I am not talking the pop-culture bastardization of the word. I am talking choosing or not choosing by buying or not buying. Any other form of economics away from capitalism is moving towards socialism or worse. It means unbridled regulation.

TTS exists because some of us who have been here for over 10 years have been loyal customers since very early on. They had a good product. We gave them our money. They built better products. We gave them more money....

But I would guess that most of those who profess to be expert enough to critique a company's choice to take on outside investment probably know virtually nothing about economics and politics other than what someone like Sean Penn has to blabber about - a guy who makes his living pretending to be something he is not.

I stand by my FACT that capitalism is a tool of democracy. It allows us to choose. Look up capitalisim. It is not the evil word you are assuming it is.
From Wikipedia
Capitalism generally refers to an economic and social system in which the means of production are predominantly privately[1][2] owned and operated, and in which investments, distribution, income, production and pricing of goods and services are determined through the operation of a market economy. It is usually considered to involve the right of individuals and groups of individuals acting as "legal persons" or corporations to trade capital goods, labor, land and money (see finance and credit).

A market economy is an economic system in which the production and distribution of goods and services take place through the mechanism of free markets guided by a free price system.[1][2] In a market economy, businesses and consumers decide of their own volition what they will purchase and produce. In theory this means that the producer gets to decide what to produce, how much to produce, what to charge customers for those goods, what to pay employees, etc., and not the government. These decisions in a market economy are influenced by the pressures of competition, supply, and demand. This is often contrasted with a planned economy, in which a central government decides what will be produced and in what quantities.[3]


Capitalism - people can own companies. It is not some evil empire.
Market economy - supply and demand set prices and produciton. Buying and selling.
Capitalism is a major tool of democracy. It is not my opinion. It is a fact.
This is ECON 101.

Some people call me Maurice
 
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#72
AdamFH
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RE: Cakewalk By Roland - It Has Begun!!! 2008/01/27 22:11:28 (permalink)
Yeah, staff, that isn't funny.
#73
AdamFH
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RE: Cakewalk By Roland - It Has Begun!!! 2008/01/27 22:16:27 (permalink)
This-This is a joke... right?
#74
AJ_0000
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RE: Cakewalk By Roland - It Has Begun!!! 2008/01/27 22:19:38 (permalink)
I don't think there is any excuse for anger, but I do have concerns. When you're talking about a $500 program, in a field with a lot of technical issues, you have to be able to deal with a company you can rely on. Up to this point, Cakewalk has been that kind of company. I've been a loyal customer since Pro Audio 8 because Cakewalk supports their products with customer service and updates, responds to the needs of their users, and has shown a dedication to developing and improving the product to be the best in its class, which I believe it clearly is. If that changes, it would have a pretty big downside--the expense of buying a new program, the time spent learning to use it, and the probability if having to deal with companies that do not support their products as well.

Until such time as someone from Cakewalk decides to provide more details/reassurances, all we can do is guess. I think the most likely scenarios are these:

1) Cakewalk's founder (Greg H.) has been at it for 20 years, is starting to think about stepping back, and wants to cash in while retaining some control over what happens to the company.
2) Cakewalk has been suffering financially, and needs support.
3) Cakewalk wants to take the "next step" to dominance in their category, and concluded that they can't do it on their own.

The last option would be the best reason, but it could some combination of those. I don't think there is reason for alarm over the prospect of Roland gutting Cakewalk any time soon, because that would negate the purpose of buying in in the first place. Undoubtedly, they intend to extend their own position in the market. The question is what happens if/when Cakewalk fails to live up to Roland's expectations on some measure. Does Roland decide to dump all of the original people and put in their own? Do the people now working at Cakewalk decide to leave because of changes they don't like? Part of the concern is that Roland is a foreign company. When a company in one country buys a company in another country, they tend not view that company with the same value and understanding that they would if it were a company in their own country. Domestic companies also tend to know better how to serve their customers than foreign ones do. And there is no question that the transition from being a smaller company with a narrow focus to being part of a larger corporation with a broader focus has the potential of diluting the acquired company.

The one statement released so far leaves enough wiggle room that there is room for various interpretations, and concerns. I'm surprised at the silence here on the boards from the people at Cakewalk, considering how much discussion there has already been.
#75
AdamFH
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RE: Cakewalk By Roland - It Has Begun!!! 2008/01/27 22:25:17 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: AJ_0000

I don't think there is any excuse for anger, but I do have concerns. When you're talking about a $500 program, in a field with a lot of technical issues, you have to be able to deal with a company you can rely on. Up to this point, Cakewalk has been that kind of company. I've been a loyal customer since Pro Audio 8 because Cakewalk supports their products with customer service and updates, responds to the needs of their users, and has shown a dedication to developing and improving the product to be the best in its class, which I believe it clearly is. If that changes, it would have a pretty big downside--the expense of buying a new program, the time spent learning to use it, and the probability if having to deal with companies that do not support their products as well.

Until such time as someone from Cakewalk decides to provide more details/reassurances, all we can do is guess. I think the most likely scenarios are these:

1) Cakewalk's founder (Greg H.) has been at it for 20 years, is starting to think about stepping back, and wants to cash in while retaining some control over what happens to the company.
2) Cakewalk has been suffering financially, and needs support.
3) Cakewalk wants to take the "next step" to dominance in their category, and concluded that they can't do it on their own.

The last option would be the best reason, but it could some combination of those. I don't think there is reason for alarm over the prospect of Roland gutting Cakewalk any time soon, because that would negate the purpose of buying in in the first place. Undoubtedly, they intend to extend their own position in the market. The question is what happens if/when Cakewalk fails to live up to Roland's expectations on some measure. Does Roland decide to dump all of the original people and put in their own? Do the people now working at Cakewalk decide to leave because of changes they don't like? Part of the concern is that Roland is a foreign company. When a company in one country buys a company in another country, they tend not view that company with the same value and understanding that they would if it were a company in their own country. Domestic companies also tend to know better how to serve their customers than foreign ones do. And there is no question that the transition from being a smaller company with a narrow focus to being part of a larger corporation with a broader focus has the potential of diluting the acquired company.

The one statement released so far leaves enough wiggle room that there is room for various interpretations, and concerns. I'm surprised at the silence here on the boards from the people at Cakewalk, considering how much discussion there has already been.


That doesn't answer my question. Is it a joke or not? It's a simple yes or no question.

I'm pissed off as ****. And I never swear. THAT's how angry I am.
post edited by AdamFH - 2008/01/27 22:42:26
#76
John
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RE: Cakewalk By Roland - It Has Begun!!! 2008/01/27 22:31:06 (permalink)
Mr. Space, Outstanding post. CW wouldn't exist without capitalism. I wonder what sequencer a state run committee would come up with. Would MIDI even exist? Would digital audio be at the beck and call of the home user? Would the record industry have happened? What would a controlled market system need with a DAW? To record subversive songs? I don't think so. LOL

Best
John
#77
AdamFH
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RE: Cakewalk By Roland - It Has Begun!!! 2008/01/27 22:33:38 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: John

Mr. Space, Outstanding post. CW wouldn't exist without capitalism. I wonder what sequencer a state run committee would come up with. Would MIDI even exist? Would digital audio be at the beck and call of the home user? Would the record industry have happened? What would a controlled market system need with a DAW? To record subversive songs? I don't think so. LOL


So is it a joke or not? I need to know this. I'm considering using Ableton Live instead if it isn't. I still ahve the install CD. I swear to God, I will..
#78
vintagevibe
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RE: Cakewalk By Roland - It Has Begun!!! 2008/01/27 22:35:58 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: space_cowboy

Capitalism - people can own companies. It is not some evil empire.
Market economy - supply and demand set prices and produciton. Buying and selling.
Capitalism is a major tool of democracy. It is not my opinion. It is a fact.
This is ECON 101.




I studied economics as well and econ 101 states that an unregulated or poorly regulated free market destroys the efficiency of the system or "invisible hand". This fact and the fact that corporations can now purchase legislation shows that, although capitalism is a "major tool of democracy", it's misuse can be a detriment to democracy. This is a fact.
#79
Mickster
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RE: Cakewalk By Roland - It Has Begun!!! 2008/01/27 22:38:01 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: AJ_0000


1) Cakewalk's founder (Greg H.) has been at it for 20 years, is starting to think about stepping back, and wants to cash in while retaining some control over what happens to the company.



He might be cashing in
JUSTIN time
#80
John
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RE: Cakewalk By Roland - It Has Begun!!! 2008/01/27 22:40:23 (permalink)
So is it a joke or not? I need to know this. I'm considering using Ableton Live instead if it isn't. I still ahve the install CD. I swear to God, I will..

What is a joke?

Best
John
#81
AdamFH
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RE: Cakewalk By Roland - It Has Begun!!! 2008/01/27 22:40:52 (permalink)
The whole Cakewalk by Roland thing.
#82
AJ_0000
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RE: Cakewalk By Roland - It Has Begun!!! 2008/01/27 22:43:25 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: Mickster


ORIGINAL: AJ_0000


1) Cakewalk's founder (Greg H.) has been at it for 20 years, is starting to think about stepping back, and wants to cash in while retaining some control over what happens to the company.



He might be cashing in
JUSTIN time


Sorry, I don't follow.
#83
AJ_0000
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RE: Cakewalk By Roland - It Has Begun!!! 2008/01/27 22:45:27 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: AdamFH

The whole Cakewalk by Roland thing.


It's the official company logo now, so it's no joke. The problem is that it remains somewhat murky exactly what the arrangement is between the two companies. The usual boilerplate statements have been released, but that's it. No posts here by anyone from Cakewalk about it.
#84
AndyW
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RE: Cakewalk By Roland - It Has Begun!!! 2008/01/27 22:47:03 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: AJ_0000


No posts here by anyone from Cakewalk about it.


That is simply untrue.


Best,

AndyW

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#85
AdamFH
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RE: Cakewalk By Roland - It Has Begun!!! 2008/01/27 22:47:28 (permalink)
Okay, well guys, it's been fun using Cakewalk, but I'm gonna have retire from it now. Sorry. They screwed up on my end pretty badly. I'm not sure if I'll ever come back to it. I have the uninstall wizard open. Sorry guys again, I'm not too sure if I'll keep posting here either..
#86
John
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RE: Cakewalk By Roland - It Has Begun!!! 2008/01/27 22:53:40 (permalink)
What you are asking is I think is what is true? I don't know what the truth is here. I hear lots of things about it. Yet I don't know what the real truth is. I do know this though. I have nothing to say about it. No one came to me and asked me for my opinion. Nor do I think any one will. It is a done deal what ever it is. We users will just have to sit back and see what happens. Of all the music companies out there Roland is preferable to many others. In the end I don't think any of us need worry though. It may prove to be a marriage made in heaven.

Best
John
#87
AdamFH
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RE: Cakewalk By Roland - It Has Begun!!! 2008/01/27 22:57:04 (permalink)
I shouldn't have snapped, sorry.
#88
Dickie Fredericks
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RE: Cakewalk By Roland - It Has Begun!!! 2008/01/27 23:04:24 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: AdamFH

Okay, well guys, it's been fun using Cakewalk, but I'm gonna have retire from it now. Sorry. They screwed up on my end pretty badly. I'm not sure if I'll ever come back to it. I have the uninstall wizard open. Sorry guys again, I'm not too sure if I'll keep posting here either..


You're leaving because of the Cakewalk/Roland thing? Um OK Bye Bye I guess. Have fun with Ableton....

Great post Space Cowboy... I personally think at this point the whole thing is much a do about nothing.

Strategic partnerships generally work for the benefit of those involved. There may be one or more in my sig line. Its called "leverage" and most business folks use it.



Although Roland now owns a bigger share of Cakewalk, they didn't acquire the whole company. Cakewalk is not becoming a "division" of Roland. On the contrary, we remain committed to developing stand-alone software, as well as hardware/software products. We're updating our logo today, to prepare you for seeing it on some very exciting joint products in the months and years ahead. Cakewalk knows how to make outstanding software. Roland knows how to make outstanding hardware. Together we can make a big difference in the world of music and audio creation and production.


Thats all we need to know...
post edited by Dickie Fredericks - 2008/01/27 23:29:11

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#89
Alaster
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RE: Cakewalk By Roland - It Has Begun!!! 2008/01/27 23:09:39 (permalink)
Rolan is great.

Cakewalk is great.

But, when companies combine and intrude on eachother... well, let's just pray this turns out well.

The Alien Element, curing the human.
#90
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