Mike, and I thought I was harsh. But you do make a point.

+1

I think crush is somewhat correct in his observation that most humans like color in their sound. Dead flat speakers usually don't make it into many home stereo systems for that very reason. But that's NOT how you mix.

You NEED flat, honest speakers to mix on precisely so you DON'T add any 'color' to your mix. Then let the consumer choose a speaker that colors the sound the way they like it but don't 'color' it for them.

Bub

HumbleNoise


bub, strat, I'm not sure who's up next but I suggest ''poo poo face'' for the next insult.

Could use "doo doo face" as well - your call.

Let's see ...

Stratman took the first jab ...

then I had my rebuttal ...

... hmmm ... I think he's up next.

:)

No actually you did by calling me a liar again. I have posted many times that x1a works fine for me and I am aware of the issues and problems that exist. You just keep jumping on that-with everyone. You are one unhappy dude and obviously you wish to bring us down with you.

HumbleNoise


I think crush is somewhat correct in his observation that most humans like color in their sound. Dead flat speakers usually don't make it into many home stereo systems for that very reason. But that's NOT how you mix.

You NEED flat, honest speakers to mix on precisely so you DON'T add any 'color' to your mix. Then let the consumer choose a speaker that colors the sound the way they like it but don't 'color' it for them.

I grew up in stereo stores that sold top end stereos to people who could easily afford it.

I never encountered a single person who knowingly sought out coloration in their sound. Their perception of better may not have equated to clinical flat response... but they simply liked what they heard and expected it faithfully reproduced the intent of the musicians.

That's exactly how I judge studio "monitors".

I didn't really notice when the myth that entertainment stereo is colorful while studio monitors are not began to be repeated over and over again but it has always seemed like an imaginary statement when ever I have heard it.


I am aware there is a subset of music listeners who like loud squishy flatulent bass... but when you consider that market and compare it's size to the sales numbers of say for example straight up Nashville Country... it is very hard to state that the interest in purposefully distorted playback is representative of any majority of listeners.

Throw the classical market in... a market where listeners still buy CDs, Then add the classic rock crowd who still enjoy radio... don't forget the latin music fans who represent a really big market in this hemisphere and the fluffy bass car audio crowd starts looking like a very small group of guys that can barely afford the cars they drive.

If those guys could afford a great stereo with surgical precision bass... they'd love it just like everyone that already does.


Please understand that this isn't about making fun of people who can't afford the better gear... it's simply defending the idea that good gear is easy to appreciate and that only someone who isn't thinking clearly would rationalize recommending nasty gear in preference of the good stuff.

Also consider that no one here is talking about the diminished return merits of $10k per cabinet speakers and $3k per channel amplifiers.

As I mentioned, my JBL LSR32 series gear is simply industrail grade working guy stuff and the price merely reflects that fact that the guts are made from gear that can run at a super clean 220 watts all day long.

My friend in town has 7 LSR3228Ps and the sub in his studio... it is bare minimum working guy stuff for a surround mixer.

The point is, no one has spoken about the expensive stuff yet. Maybe, if that happens we can agree on less effective value... but right now people are simply speaking about good reliable gear.


all the best,
mike

Why do the Cakewalk forum monitors continually let you guys behave this way? 

You guys have ruined a perfectly innocent post about studio monitors by trying to one up each other, put each other down, call each other names--your behavior is absolutely ridiculous. 

To the OP: if you'd like to get some decent answers w/out all the bickering you should really post this question in a few other audio forums.

To Cakewalk:  Why do you let these guys continually trash the forum?  You've banned ppl. for calling you out on your paid beta-testing of X1, but you let these guys continually call each other liar, ****, moron, idiot, etc.

have a good one
3Eo

Crush


Like if I was going to recommend studio monitors, I would recommend only 6.5's. Then I would definitely recommend a sub to go with it.

If you are recording something like an accoustic guitar/harp etc want to see how your compression vst is working at a very mild setting, then you need to wear some good headphones.

Speakers lie, the headphones don't.

Treat your monitors for mixing and then spot check with headphones.

It's just that all monitors are fairly flat these days (get it?) and everyone likes their brand. You'll have to learn them anyhow.

I just think that you should spend on things which enhance or help your mixing. Headphones will do that. Sound deadening will do that. A subwoofer will do that.. cheap vs expensive monitors will not (in my opinion).

I'm certainly no authority but that makes sense to me. You can certainly tweak a mix. Wouldn't a person want to get their best mix using their monitors and phones.. then listen to it through the "home entertainment center", in my case either my Sansui or Pioneer SX-1010, through a boombox, then in the car and the truck... compared to a couple of other CDs in the style you are trying to get. Isn't the main thing to get your end product to "sit in the mix" with other music?
My daughter was a working DnB DJ for a few years and had some of her music on vinyl in stores.. and that was her comment on the final mix... "when you hear it in a club, on the big speakers and it mixes well with other music, it isn't too quiet, too loud, the bass isn't too big... then you know you've gotten it right".
 
So, i'd think that with whatever monitors I have... I should give it my best mix shot then check it against other music on other systems and environments.
 
I have some Altec Lansing 602-D speakers... i've thought about getting these into some speaker boxes and trying them. Some great recordings were made using these duplex speakers.
 
JB 
 

stratman70

Bub

HumbleNoise


bub, strat, I'm not sure who's up next but I suggest ''poo poo face'' for the next insult.

Could use "doo doo face" as well - your call.

Let's see ...

Stratman took the first jab ...

then I had my rebuttal ...

... hmmm ... I think he's up next.

:)

No actually you did by calling me a liar again. I have posted many times that x1a works fine for me and I am aware of the issues and problems that exist. You just keep jumping on that-with everyone. You are one unhappy dude and obviously you wish to bring us down with you.

You did lie, and I called you out on it. Sorry you can't deal with that. You said Cakewalk will fix X1 for free and we all know that there has never been a version of Sonar that has been fixed completely before we've had to upgrade for a fee.

If I'm wrong, where are the admin telling me to shut up or setting me straight?

Your turn ....

"Mike, are your JBLs the ones that have automatic room correction?"

No, the LSR6300 series doesn't have automatic correction... they do have manual switches. I've been mistakenly calling them "LSR32" in previous posts... sorry for the confusion.

I have bass traps every where and run the speakers at the stock *flat* settings.

best regards,
mike

three_eyed_otter


Why do the Cakewalk forum monitors continually let you guys behave this way? 

You guys have ruined a perfectly innocent post about studio monitors by trying to one up each other, put each other down, call each other names--your behavior is absolutely ridiculous. 

To the OP: if you'd like to get some decent answers w/out all the bickering you should really post this question in a few other audio forums.

To Cakewalk:  Why do you let these guys continually trash the forum?  You've banned ppl. for calling you out on your paid beta-testing of X1, but you let these guys continually call each other liar, ****, moron, idiot, etc.

have a good one
3Eo

I agree with you about the name calling-I include myself in that also. But the OP received plenty of good suggestions. Anymore would be deciding for him and that's not really a good thing. The bickering and name calling, well it does stink (yes I am guilty again, but only in rebuttal mode) But it also is more childish than vicious.
 
If the name calling and such was vicious and truly hateful I believe CW would jump in.
Their was a point a few weeks ago where things got pretty heated and pretty close to nasty, but as of late it is more schoolyard nah nah nah stuff from both sides. Stinks sure, but not terrible enough for CW to jump in.
 
To me this is amazing. I have been here for many more years than my present membership indicates-CWPA 6.
This is most certainly the worst of the worst.
 
Some folks are really, really pissed and they obviously plan on stating so everyday in every thread regardless of the content.
I am not mad at CW-my first major offense in the eyes of many. I am upset that I am attacked simply because "X1a works OK for me".
And that will continue to upset me.
 
BTW- The B-Stock ($300 each shipped) Mackie HR624MKII's I posted about here are great for the price point and Musicans Friend has plenty of them. I look at it like this-they have many for 2 resons. 1. They broke down to quickly. 2. Just the volume of sales put zillions in the market place.
But mine have been refurbed and sound great.
Have nice day
 
 

Bub

stratman70

Bub

HumbleNoise


bub, strat, I'm not sure who's up next but I suggest ''poo poo face'' for the next insult.

Could use "doo doo face" as well - your call.

Let's see ...

Stratman took the first jab ...

then I had my rebuttal ...

... hmmm ... I think he's up next.

:)

No actually you did by calling me a liar again. I have posted many times that x1a works fine for me and I am aware of the issues and problems that exist. You just keep jumping on that-with everyone. You are one unhappy dude and obviously you wish to bring us down with you.

You did lie, and I called you out on it. Sorry you can't deal with that. You said Cakewalk will fix X1 for free and we all know that there has never been a version of Sonar that has been fixed completely before we've had to upgrade for a fee.

If I'm wrong, where are the admin telling me to shut up or setting me straight?

Your turn ....

Nah, I'd rather play my guitar then argue with a fool.
Bye-unsubscribing now.

stratman70

Bub

stratman70

Bub

HumbleNoise


bub, strat, I'm not sure who's up next but I suggest ''poo poo face'' for the next insult.

Could use "doo doo face" as well - your call.

Let's see ...

Stratman took the first jab ...

then I had my rebuttal ...

... hmmm ... I think he's up next.

:)

No actually you did by calling me a liar again. I have posted many times that x1a works fine for me and I am aware of the issues and problems that exist. You just keep jumping on that-with everyone. You are one unhappy dude and obviously you wish to bring us down with you.

You did lie, and I called you out on it. Sorry you can't deal with that. You said Cakewalk will fix X1 for free and we all know that there has never been a version of Sonar that has been fixed completely before we've had to upgrade for a fee.

If I'm wrong, where are the admin telling me to shut up or setting me straight?

Your turn ....

Nah, I'd rather play my guitar then argue with a fool.
Bye-unsubscribing now.

It's about time you wised up you idiot.

mike_mccue


And once again, the fact is... using a well made neutral monitor system is the very best way to hear what the widest variety of playback systems will present your music as. A well powered system doesn't fool you into thinking you've got it sounding good until you do.
 

THIS I think we can all agree on - maybe.

mike_mccue


"Again, for the majority of people, I think they'll choose a speaker with some boost in some frequency because that's a lot of what's offered at that price range. In that same vein I don't think it's a myth that "entertainment stereo is colorful while studio monitors are not." At the lower end, which again was the point I was trying to make, entertainment stereo can be quite colored, and quite popular. Not at the top end stereo stores most certainly, but every day systems that people listen to, cars, radio etc. can all be pretty 'colorful.'"

Yes I agree many people will take home speakers with all kinds of problems but I contend that the speakers aren't designed to distort with intent... they are simply cheap speakers.

The popularity is a result of economics and not an awareness of very much else.

One person may accept oe compromise over some other compromise... but I hardly think it is because they enjoy the compromise... it's just the fact that speakers and suitable amplification can get expensive.

I specifically mentioned folks who can afford to not compromise to point out that when it's possible very few people choose to.

I also acknowledge that hi end stereo can get ridiculously expensive with dubious benefit.

I'd also contend that the reason you don't see hi end stereo stores on every corner is that there is very little obsolescence... you can easily find 40 year old top of the line stereos bringing people great listening pleasure.

How many times does each family need to buy a very nice stereo?

The only reason I think I quoted you is that you post represented a viewpoint well... it was nothing personal... I apologize for the fact that it may have seemed so.

best regards,
mike

Its knowledge too Mike. Many buy what they buy because the do not know better. Also where do they get their gear from? Is it Best Buy? They are not going to find great gear there. Nor are they being educated by knowledgeable sales persons that know about hi fi gear.  I know when back in the dark ages for me I had to learn from buying poor equipment until I learned what to listen for and which brands were better. It takes a village to teach about audio gear. 

LpMike75


I've been using MAudio BX8a and have had good results.
http://www.amazon.com/M-Audio-8-inch-BiAmplified-Monitor-Speakers/dp/B000A68UTW

Agreed. These are superb. Smooth and silky.

Boy, sorry I missed the first 8 rounds of this discussion. 

Opinions on the sound characteristics of speakers, whether studio monitors or home listening models, have always brought out the beast in people. 

I remember a hilarious cartoon by the artist Rodrigues, he used to put one in each months Stereo Review magazine back in the day.  He was widely known for a cartoon character named Charlie.  Little frumpy guy with messed up hair and glasses.  Anyway, Charlie is standing on a soap box in a city park.  There's a little sign that says "citizen free speech forum".  A group of people are listening to him.  A huge, enraged policeman is shoving his way through the crowd, menacingly waving a billy club at Charlie and clenching his fist.  He shouts "Hey Buddy!  Free speech is one thing but how dare you stand there riling up these people with statements like 'Accu speakers have a dull unemotional midrange'!!??