That low end bump is typical of any driver squeezed into a small easy to ship box that is designed to have adequate power handling... they could get rid of the hump by spending a bit more money... and it would reduce the power handling and efficiency. Seeing how those boxes are probably going to end up on a shelf... they'll be plenty of room mode nulls to suck that bass right out of them.

Notice how the photo gallery actually displays the speakers in a more ideal spaced out from the wall position.... something to be appreciated.

It's not a big deal either way though because that response can still be called flat +/-3(maybe 4)dB.

Here's what Axion states as their ideal at http://axiomaudio.com/research.html :

"The findings of Toole’s program were in one sense startling and at the same time remarkably useful: When the brand name, size, type and price of speakers were concealed from listeners, persons with normal hearing agreed on which speakers sounded pleasing and accurate --"musical" if you will-- and which ones were inaccurate and downright unpleasant. In the course of these tests, the notion of "golden-eared" listeners was largely dismissed. As long as listeners had a few hours of training on what to listen for ("fat" emphasized bass, strident harsh treble, muffled midrange, narrow "boxy" colorations and the like), they ranked good speakers "good" and bad speakers "bad". And what was even more intriguing: If a speaker’s on-axis (in front) and off-axis frequency-response measurements could be kept as similar as possible, especially within a 15-degree "listening window" and especially over the midrange, the speaker would score highly in blind listening tests. While this is an oversimplification of decades of research at the NRC and by individual designers at Axiom and at other firms, it has proven to be extraordinarily predictive. Although no two speakers designed according to the NRC mantra ever sound exactly alike, there is nevertheless a remarkable congruence in what might be called "the Canadian sound," and that is one of openness, transparency, "linearity" (smoothness), and fidelity. -- Alan Lofft "

Anyone into stereo speakers probably already knows about all the great publically funded research done on loud speakers up in Canada. Those guys know their stuff!


I will also point out the most of the reviews include the phrase "For the money" and I'm guessing any one of those reviewers would gladly listening to an even nicer set of speakers and say similarly nice things.

:-)

I have to go spend the rest of the day learning a new digital mixer for a gig tomorrow.

all the best,
mike

It is my way of saying people, including myself, accept compromise.


Axiom's goal or ideal seems to be:

"openness, transparency, "linearity" (smoothness), and fidelity"



I have to stop procrastinating on go read a mixer manual!

:-)

HumbleNoise


Bub, I hope you know I wasn't recommending those speakers a monitors. They were just to make a point about consumer loudspeakers.

Yep, no problemo'. :)

I never had monitors before. I always mixed on headphones, and a pair of old single driver shelf speakers. So I went in with no bias and just picked out what sounded best to me, and they happened to be the HS-80m's.

I had been checking monitors out for a while then finally decided on the 80's. I was prepared to pay full price but when I went back in they had them on sale 50% off. I'm still kicking myself for not getting 2 pair. I had the money! What a surround sound system these puppies would make.

A transparent monitor will allow you get the 'highs, lows and everything else' in the correct proportions for the track.

I went to your soundcloud and saw the type of music you produce which I can understand you would want something extremely transparent.

But your audience. Will not have that kind of setup. I'm going to test your mix on a pair of bookshelf speakers.

On my headphones the guitars seem to be too farward, not enough warmth, and the highest just aren't there. Now I'm sure ON YOUR MONITORS they were all great, but on my cheap bedroom Yamaha headphones hooked up to the laptop, I'm getting a different story.

The moral of the story is.. the studio is work. It's making music for an audience. You can't make your studio monitors your own personal audiophile speakers. You have to mix for how it translates to the average person which is on poor speakers and PA's.

"When you're going to choose studio monitors for your recording studio it's important to know that these monitors are not supposed to provide a rich audio experience, as you would expect from a hi-fi music system.

And that might be the most important point in choosing studio monitors. How they sound in reference to other sound systems.

People will be listening to your music on various sound systems, on small radios, in their car, on their $1000 hi-fi rig, and you want your music to sound good on all of the above.
This is why an important part of mixing is to test and learn how the sound transfers to other systems" --http://www.build-a-record...m/studio-monitors.html

I hadn't heard of the IK ARC before, thanks for that tip I will look into it for sure.

To shift gears a bit,

I'm using Mackie HR 824's for monitors, and then checking on Yamaha S115v speakers with a Mackie FR2500 amp.

I would like to add a subwoofer mixing, any good suggestions?   I would have loved to get the mackie one that went with the speakers, but I don't think they make it anymore.

And the car and boombox. About the only thing you can't correct is bass problems

Not true.

A lot of the cheap speakers don't do very high treble well. They usually handle the scratch range well. I've had pull down all my high range down to scratch on my mixes to make them work on my cheap speakers.

if your monitors don't go down to 40 Hz or so and the room is treated, you simply have to guess at fixing bass problems.

This is why you need subwoofers.

Logically which advice is better. His above "spend the most you can afford on the best monitors" and guess the bass issues, or getting some good enough monitors AND a sub woofer which will guarantee fix you bass problems and let you know what is happening. I seriously don't get it.

Bub, I hope you know I wasn't recommending those speakers a monitors. They were just to make a point about consumer loudspeakers.

Actually those in specific and types like those with titanium domes are meant for the crowd that have special needs who do the tv/movie pro logic work.

Again I know no one here agrees with me, but you really need that upper sing to HELP your mix out don't you see?

If you are doing a movie score, wouldn't you NEED a rumble sub-woofer. Wouldn't you NEED a metal domed tweeter? This is what I'm getting at and that's what those speakers are designed for.

My problem is that for the type of music I make, I need more scratch and high end spike on my monitors. If I just had that bump, I'd be set.

"My problem is..."


Your problem is that you have no idea what you are talking about.

For example; you still think music comes in *types*.

Music is music, sound is sound. It's all there for one to realize or ignore.

regards,
mike

But the bigger question is HOW you get your intended color. Or HOW the engineer gets a little more bass or a little less treble. The best engineers don't get those flavors or colors by using crap speakers. They get their tone and flavor using GREAT monitors and amps and other high quality equipment.

I'm suggesting that 'all studio monitors are good enough' for the home engineer and to be able to mix. Everyone loves the M-Audios, Mackies, my speakers. Are these what you consider cheap? I never said Walmart speakers.. just any studio grade will do (which still are honestly expensive for most people).

For music production (not tv/movie) I recommend any studio grade 6.5 and a silk dome tweeter WITH A SUB WOOFER as being mandatory. If you have that setup, you should be able to mix anything and get helped along.

I DO NOT recommend people take the old advice of "buy the best you can afford" as the difference between a $200 speaker and a $1000 speaker is simply not going to HELP your final mix and could actually hurt it.

IMO, you are MUCH better off investing in a sub woofer than simply buying the 'best monitors you can afford'.

And when reading about the M-Audios, people keep saying that they preferred those over much more expensive speakers. Actually everyone says that about the lower priced speakers. Even I was able to spend much more, but I needed far field speakers and did my research on what I got.

As far as subs go, just get any 10" or up and put it by your feet. Just make sure it has a variable bass cutoff knob at the back as this is important.

mike_mccue


"My problem is..."


Your problem is that you have no idea what you are talking about.

For example; you still think music comes in *types*.

Music is music, sound is sound. It's all there for one to realize or ignore.

regards,
mike

Tell that to the marketiing dudes!! ...  


I seriously doubt that you would produce, say, a Shostokovich piece the exact same way you would, say, Indonesian Gamelan...or even the Monkees...or Anthony Braxton..or Moricone...or Magma...sheeesh....


I'm just saying that I would have to see what the artist themselves would like..because, after all, they also are part of the equation...as we all are..


I am in the process of making my own studio space out of an attic...well insulated...as it has to be up here in the GWN...with practically no walls exactly 90 degrees to each other....this house is an old 1850's thing..


I tend  to record my pieces with lots of 'dynamics'...remember that? Now we do things like compress the poor thing until it has next to no headroom FOR dynamics. So I like speakers that do give me that extra kick but, as well, gives me back my highs and mids...dagnab it!!! 


 

trimph1

mike_mccue


"My problem is..."


Your problem is that you have no idea what you are talking about.

For example; you still think music comes in *types*.

Music is music, sound is sound. It's all there for one to realize or ignore.

regards,
mike

Tell that to the marketiing dudes!! ...  


I seriously doubt that you would produce, say, a Shostokovich piece the exact same way you would, say, Indonesian Gamelan...or even the Monkees...or Anthony Braxton..or Moricone...or Magma...sheeesh....


I'm just saying that I would have to see what the artist themselves would like..because, after all, they also are part of the equation...as we all are..


I am in the process of making my own studio space out of an attic...well insulated...as it has to be up here in the GWN...with practically no walls exactly 90 degrees to each other....this house is an old 1850's thing..


I tend  to record my pieces with lots of 'dynamics'...remember that? Now we do things like compress the poor thing until it has next to no headroom FOR dynamics. So I like speakers that do give me that extra kick but, as well, gives me back my highs and mids...dagnab it!!! 


 

Don't forget Capoeira !!!

The first time I mixed a Capoeria ensemble I had no idea what I was getting in to.

You need a nice clean bass response to get all the detail in the foot stomp.

best regards,
mike

Hey Mike what digital mixer are you using for your gig?. I use a Yamaha 01V as part of my studio but before I installed it permanently there, I was asked to do a fairly important live gig and record it as well with it. And yes I got caught out and a few things happened. Just be careful and ready in case it does!

Digital mixers are sort of exciting and powerful but also a bit dangerous live! My problem was with the mute lights. I was using a Tascam analog mixer at home at the time. When the mute lights are on (Tascam) it means no sound gets through as expected. But on the Yamaha digital mixer the mute lights have to be ON before any sound gets through. I had the stereo buss muted for the start of the show. eg the lights were out as on the Tascam. Also if you are on the Aux send page and something starts to feedback turning things down wont help. You have to quickly get back to the main home page or level page.


Once you start to sweat and panic then it takes longer to solve the problem!

Jeff Evans


Hey Mike what digital mixer are you using for your gig?. I use a Yamaha 01V as part of my studio but before I installed it permanently there, I was asked to do a fairly important live gig and record it as well with it. And yes I got caught out and a few things happened. Just be careful and ready in case it does!

It's an over the shoulder Sound Devices 552 with a built in digital recorder that I am using for a sync'd double system Hi Def video shoot.

It's actually a digitally controlled analog mixer and the menu controls are buried in a matrix of LED readouts and a synthesized voice that tells you where you are in the menu.

It was unnerving to set up at first but it all went smooth... but I''ll be bringing cheat sheets with me. :-)

best regards,
mike