Al Nico
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Re:Console view narrow strips Sonar 8.5.3 vs. X1
2010/12/13 10:24:19
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I live in the console view (Have Mackie Control and one Extender)....
X1 seems to have crippled the main area I have always worked in....
I have always had the Console in the left monitor ready to expand across both, and the track view in the right monitor.
These workflow "Improvements" do nothing for me now, but in all fairness I have not done any extensive work in x1.....
Simple things like 1 dimensional sliders as opposed to 3 dimensional sliders with thier little shadows showing also bothers me.
Hopefully the first update/fix will change alot of this....
If not, I feel I have been grossly mislead....
Al
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Shinyhead
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Simple questions for Noel and Brandon
2010/12/13 11:07:39
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Noel and Brandon, Surely you have noticed the debacle around the console narrow view. Unfortunately, despite a very active and heated thread, we have not heard from you. Answering these simple questions would do a lot to appease the understandable dismayed disposition of your faithful user base. 1) can you acknowledge that Cakewalk recognizes this as a critical issue? 2) can you inform us as to when this will be rectified, either timeline and/or version (X1.1, X2,...)? 3) can you inform us on the new direction of the revised narrow view (possibly considering the outstanding version offered by n0rd)? Otherwise, please receive all my respect for a brilliant X1 release. Jon
post edited by Shinyhead - 2010/12/13 21:39:49
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Robin Kelly [Roland]
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Re:Simple questions for Noel and Brandon
2010/12/13 11:11:52
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We hear you, right now that's all the info I can give. Just because a thread is active and we have not jumped in does not mean we are not reading and/or discussing feedback internally.
When there is appropriate info to post we will.
Regards,
Robin
That's my blog Omnia illa et ante fiebant, Omnia illa et rursus fient.
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yorolpal
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Re:Simple questions for Noel and Brandon
2010/12/13 12:30:18
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That's great Robin! And I hope that in the midst of all the "chaos" you guys will actually give a fair and reasoned look at ol n0rd's design. He seems to have gotten it just about right and also struck a very positive nerve with most users who have responded to his design. Don't be afraid to think "outside the Cake".
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Garry Stubbs
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Re:Simple questions for Noel and Brandon
2010/12/13 12:35:29
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For the benefit of those of us away from the forum for a day, given the amount of threads on here right now, could you point us in the direction of n0rd's proposed design?
Regards
Garry
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Garry Stubbs
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Re:Simple questions for Noel and Brandon
2010/12/13 12:39:33
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https://soundcloud.com/garry-kiosk Sonar Platinum 64-bit: Q6600 8Gb Win7 64-bit: KRK Monitors: ART MPA PRO VLA ii preamp: 3 x 500Gb internal SATA disks: Superior Drummer2: GPO4: Realstrat: Saxlab: Rapture: Dimension Pro: Ozone 4: Edirol SPS-660: PCR-500 MIDI controller: Korg PadKontrol: Fender / Gibson / Yamaha / Ibanez guitars:Guitar Rig 5: Dual 22" Monitors: Mapex Drums, Sabian AAX cymbals: Alesis DM5 Pro Kit: SE Electronics and Shure Mics: Mathmos Lava Lamp (40W)
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nprime
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Re:Simple questions for Noel and Brandon
2010/12/13 12:45:51
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I think the (now infamous) narrow channel strip is possibly the most fascinating aspect of the response to this release.
We know that they beta tested this software, no doubt quite extensively.
We know that the very people who communicate with us here on the forum would have used X1 before release.
The fact that the narrow console view limitations were accepted as satisfactory, and subsequently released as is, makes me wonder if maybe the reason is that the majority of users don't actually use the console view. How else could it have been missed?
I know I almost never used it, narrow or otherwise.
Too bad the Beta testers are bound by their agreement with CW and cannot comment on this (or any other) issue.
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Jose7822
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Re:Simple questions for Noel and Brandon
2010/12/13 12:51:14
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Yes, Robin please take N0rd's design into special consideration cause I think it's about as good as it gets.
There are some other great ideas in his thread too.
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wormser
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Re:Simple questions for Noel and Brandon
2010/12/13 12:53:54
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First off if N0rd isn't involved in the field GUI design, he should be!
Great suggestions!
Second, is the narrow strip problems possibly related to monitor size and resolution?
The reason I ask is I can't believe this wasn't picked up by the beta testers.
It seems to me like kind of a basic flaw that would be caught in 5 minutes of use.
That being said, I use the wide strips anyway :)
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mgh
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Re:Simple questions for Noel and Brandon
2010/12/13 12:59:40
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That Call of Duty dude must have had 12 widescreen monitors if he didn't notice anything whilst mixing...
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Jose7822
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Re:Simple questions for Noel and Brandon
2010/12/13 13:07:56
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nprime
The fact that the narrow console view limitations were accepted as satisfactory, and subsequently released as is, makes me wonder if maybe the reason is that the majority of users don't actually use the console view. How else could it have been missed?
I know I almost never used it, narrow or otherwise.
I don't know if that's the reason why the current narrow strip design of the CV was released, but I doubt it. I can't concieve someone not noticing all the flaws. But I digress. BTW, one of the coolest thing about the pre-SONAR X1 CV is that you could very clearly see where each track was routed to, even in narrow view. You can't do that at a glance in the TV, short of expanding your tracks. The same applies to all my fader levels, trim, panning, EQ plots, etc. It just made things so much easier.
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Jose7822
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Re:Simple questions for Noel and Brandon
2010/12/13 13:10:12
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mgh
That Call of Duty dude must have had 12 widescreen monitors if he didn't notice anything whilst mixing...
He most likely didn't mix in SONAR X1, only composed in it. The mixing part was probably done in Pro Tools.
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mgh
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Re:Simple questions for Noel and Brandon
2010/12/13 13:15:01
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aye you're probably right, or some other post-production setup...
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John T
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Re:Simple questions for Noel and Brandon
2010/12/13 13:15:46
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What do you base that assumption on?
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Jose7822
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Re:Simple questions for Noel and Brandon
2010/12/13 13:20:01
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John T
What do you base that assumption on?
Projects of that caliber end up mixed in BIG studios that have, you've guessed it, Pro Tools. This is a Blockbuster video game soundtrack we're speaking here. Not saying you can't do that in SONAR X1. Just being realistic here.
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mgh
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Re:Simple questions for Noel and Brandon
2010/12/13 13:20:33
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a) cos in the blurb it just says 'composed in x1' and if it was also mixed etc i'm sure they'd post that up
b) cos Sonar isn't set-up to handle that kinda video/audio post-production stuff
c) cos Jose said so
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Jose7822
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Re:Console view narrow strips Sonar 8.5.3 vs. X1
2010/12/13 13:29:31
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rbowser
Jose7822
Randy,
I sure wouldn't give unique names to 80 tracks on a fake project either. N0rd only wanted to give an example of what another vendor is doing with their Console View in the hopes that someone from Cakewalk would see it. I could be wrong, of course.
Hmm, well if tried to demo how much better something else was, I Would make the effort to show it all - I assumed there were only numbers because that's all Reapear could do. With N0rd's screen shot, my only reaction was that YOW there was way too much on the screen, all so tiny, only with numbers, and it looked worse than the already bad console display in X1 - and I rather think he wasn't trying to make that impression. 
RB
Randy, You have the wrong impression about Reaper as it blows SONAR out of the water when it comes to audio (not so on the MIDI side, or at least not yet). In Reaper you have unlimited routing (Bus to Track/Track to Track), ripple editing, much better automation with lanes and extra modes, a functional Console View that shows far more tracks (despite of what you may think of it), Varispeed, etc. Dispite all of this, I still prefer SONAR. But I wished it had all of those functions that Reaper has. Don't knock something you've never tried ;-)
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Jose7822
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Re:Simple questions for Noel and Brandon
2010/12/13 13:34:54
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mgh
c) cos Jose said so
LOL :-P
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gtgarner
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Re:Simple questions for Noel and Brandon
2010/12/13 13:35:40
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Even though there is no level/cap on how harsh a peron can be, we don't have to test the waters.
Big studio? Is that floor space thats being measured?
Or the capability of the engineer?
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rbowser
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Re:Console view narrow strips Sonar 8.5.3 vs. X1
2010/12/13 13:37:10
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Jose7822
...Don't knock something you've never tried...
Hi, Jose - I wasn't knocking Reaper, I was just saying that the screen shot didn't seem to make a positive point because there were no track names and there were so many tracks squeezed on the screen, it looked like a nightmare to me. I'm sure a more impressive example could be made of what that mixer is like. Randy B.
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John T
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Re:Simple questions for Noel and Brandon
2010/12/13 13:40:20
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Jose7822
John T
What do you base that assumption on?
Projects of that caliber end up mixed in BIG studios that have, you've guessed it, Pro Tools.
This is a Blockbuster video game soundtrack we're speaking here. Not saying you can't do that in SONAR X1. Just being realistic here.
Right, so it's a wild guess with no real foundation. Thought so.
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Rothchild
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Re:Simple questions for Noel and Brandon
2010/12/13 13:41:47
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Jose7822
You can't do that at a glance in the TV, short of expanding your tracks. The same applies to all my fader levels, trim, panning, EQ plots, etc. It just made things so much easier.
Are you saying this just in relation to X1? I can see all sorts of stuff in the TV in 8.5 because I use one whole monitor for the track headers and one for the arrange page. I get track i/o MSR, phase, freeze and archive on there. I know they've taken some buttons away but is there a fundamental change in the headers in TV in X1 that means they don't show as much info when made huge (across the screen rather than down)? (Yup I'd have missed the error with the CV cos I never use it, don't get what all the fuss is about ;-)) Cheers Child
post edited by Rothchild - 2010/12/13 13:43:06
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Jose7822
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Re:Console view narrow strips Sonar 8.5.3 vs. X1
2010/12/13 13:46:49
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Well, I was personally impressed with that screenshot. It's 1,000 times better than what we have now, that's for sure. Everything is clearly displayed, color coded (which is something SONAR can't do yet) and easily visible without scrolling. Not sure what more you'd want short of cluttering the screen with more info. Changing track names is something way to basic for any DAW to miss (though X1 kinda did :-P). But, OK, I'll wait for the Bakers to fix this as I'm sure they will.
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Jose7822
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Re:Simple questions for Noel and Brandon
2010/12/13 13:50:48
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gtgarner
Even though there is no level/cap on how harsh a peron can be, we don't have to test the waters.
Big studio? Is that floor space thats being measured?
Or the capability of the engineer?
Both :-)
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Jose7822
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Re:Simple questions for Noel and Brandon
2010/12/13 13:51:28
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John T
Jose7822
John T
What do you base that assumption on?
Projects of that caliber end up mixed in BIG studios that have, you've guessed it, Pro Tools.
This is a Blockbuster video game soundtrack we're speaking here. Not saying you can't do that in SONAR X1. Just being realistic here.
Right, so it's a wild guess with no real foundation. Thought so.
I bet ya I ain't wrong either.
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rbowser
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Re:Console view narrow strips Sonar 8.5.3 vs. X1
2010/12/13 13:53:58
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Jose7822
Well, I was personally impressed with that screenshot...
Maybe my screen resolution is too small for that shot to look good. My monitors are both 1440 X 900. I zoomed and zoomed to get a better idea of what was going on in that cramped looking screen shot, and it still looked so squished and unimpressive to me. I'm sure it would be very different if I actually worked with that mixer. I'm just saying it didn't look very good to me. But you know, the mixer in X1 isn't exactly photogenic either! RB
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Jose7822
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Re:Simple questions for Noel and Brandon
2010/12/13 13:55:24
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Rothchild
(Yup I'd have missed the error with the CV cos I never use it, don't get what all the fuss is about ;-))
Cheers
Child
Well, there you go. I could have a similar setup to yours except I don't like the split between monitors. I work with TV on one and CV on the other. Works better for me :-)
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hugojacquet
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Re:Console view narrow strips Sonar 8.5.3 vs. X1
2010/12/13 14:09:56
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rbowser
Jose7822
...Don't knock something you've never tried...
Hi, Jose - I wasn't knocking Reaper, I was just saying that the screen shot didn't seem to make a positive point because there were no track names and there were so many tracks squeezed on the screen, it looked like a nightmare to me. I'm sure a more impressive example could be made of what that mixer is like.
Randy B.
Hi, And you do not HAVE TO have all these tracks crammed on the screen either. In the case of this screen shot, the poster allowed for the tracks to be stacked upon each other if, and only if the mixer is resized high enough to have them stacked... Now you can turn "off" this feature and just allow raeper to display the tracks/ channels sideways and extend the strips in height at your hearts content...(if that is "English", which I am not)... the mixer is scalable to a certain extend too...
post edited by hugojacquet - 2010/12/13 14:16:27
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Garry Stubbs
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Re:X1 Narrow Console - My Dream
2010/12/13 14:39:54
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n0rd, this is a truly excellent initiative, if X1 had been released with your Console View I think more praise would have been heaped Cakewallks way.
As the evening develops here in Europe and then the USA I have no doubt this thread will take off, in the meantime I am happy to contribute to the additional bump it truly deserves
Garry Kiosk
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yorolpal
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Re:Simple questions for Noel and Brandon
2010/12/13 14:40:40
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I dunno Jose, ol pal. I recently saw some short videos of three or four film/tv scorers who do major network/cable work and at least two of them said while as short as ten years ago the type of work they did was always recorded on a giant soundstage using real orchestras and mixed and mastered at top studios that nowadays most all of it was being done in their own project studios...all of which looked about like mine (I imagine yours too). The paradigm has indeed shifted.
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