it's better just to embrace the ol' curmudgeon badge and wear it with pride

Oh I do...... I do! ;-)

John T


I can scarcely think of anything duller and less creative than an obsession with "real" instruments. 

Define "real".  I wouldn't want you discounting my comb and tissue paper combo without a proper critical listen first.

I dunno. Plenty of educated people seem to like taking drugs. 

Bit of a dodgy analogy in all sorts of ways, this. 

....how did drug trade get into this.....?? 

John T


I can scarcely think of anything duller and less creative than an obsession with "real" instruments. 

This I just can't agree with. It goes against any sensibility. Creativity belongs to the creator and not the instrument.  What I think Amour013 is getting at is the fact that much(most) of Hip Hop is based around loops and sampling music that already exists. One might take this as riding on the coat tails of someone elses talent, which it is to an extent. There are artists out there than manage to legitimize their art by using a real band but that is a small exception.
 
The same thing with much of Dance music. I would not pay to watch a guy "spin" records. He's really not spinning anything is he? He's just dropping a needle and pressing play, for the most part at least. I know that there are some "DJs" who are much more than that and that actually play keys and samples via an MPC type controller. But again, these are the exception.  Most DJ's don't do much more than press play. I wouldn't pay to be in their presence.  That's like going to an art museum to look at paint by numbers paintings.
 
It all comes down to what you value more, Norman Rockwell or the kid next door who got a new set of crayons and a Spider Man colouring book. Sure the kid might be great at colouring and hey, there is even work for skilled colourists but do you value him as you would Mr. Rockwell? I wouldn't.
 
Now, I'm not saying that all Hip Hop is bad. I don't beleive that. I'm just saying that I would appreciate a rapper with a live band more than a rapper with a guy pressing play.

John T


I dunno. Plenty of educated people seem to like taking drugs. 

Being exposed to an education.... and actually getting educated are entirely two different things. Your analogy is even more distorted...... it's as if those who are "educated" are justified in their choice that they "like" to poison themselves.

Let's discuss music.....  LOL!

Well, I didn't bring up drug use. But the argument is a hopeless one. What are we saying here? That Thomas de Quincey: ignoramus. Coleridge? Thicko. I mean come on. 

I love that "I wouldn't pay to be in a dj's presence" thing. You must have some smokin' nights out. 

I don't think I'm proposing anything too radical to suggest that going to a place where records get played for the purposes of entertainment is, you know, fun, and that the people who are involved in making such events happen might reasonably expect to get paid for their time and effort. 

John T


Well, I think someone found themselves comparing urban and mainly black musical artists to criminals. Bit crass I thought. 

Your assumption is entirely wrong regarding this....... if in fact that someone was me.
It appears that it's you who is stereotyping and compartmentalizing individuals....  not me. You have no idea if I'm white, brown, black or green. You have no idea what neighborhoods I'm exposed to. You have no idea if I associate with criminals or not. So, please.... don't jump to these harsh conclusions. If anything here has been crass..... it's been your own reply.

PEACE

Hip hop is everywhere , it goes from Madonna , to black eyes pies , from M.I.A to Taylor the creator , impacted and still all the arts , impacted designners , dance, clothes , ect ....

Speak with any REAL ingeeners and you will see that one of the most reponsible genre of music that made mixing reach new limits , that make mixing go out of known limits ...is hip hop ...

A lot of styles have developped traditions in mixings (jazz , big band, country ect ...) and you have to fallow strict rules to make a mix considered like good ....but hip hop give the engineer an unlimited margin ...that's why it was a fresh air for the engineers .... and the fact that people that makes hip hop are everybody , engineers have to deal with an infinite type of mixing possibilities ....

To the OP , like in all kinda stuff :

1) Listen
2) Reproduce
3) Developpe
4) Create 

Have fun ....

Yeah, it does always somewhat amuse me, this blinking in befuddlement at these lumpen supposedly new forms of music. I've got an LP by a guy called Lightnin' Rod from 1971, which is basically prototype gangster rap. 

hueseph


Well, I can go t a club and pay a cover fee or buy the minimum drink and hear music. I can stay home and listen to music. I can wear headphones and walk around town listening to music. I will not pay to see some dude with a bad haircut dropping needles the same amount that I would pay to see a band perform their songs or a DJ performing songs for that matter. If I pay for a performance, I expect to see one. I don't know. Maybe I'm way off here but I expect an artist to earn his living the same way anyone else would.

i'm totally agree with you ...but this is not hip hop this is some artists /studio rappers ...not mc's....i never seens so wak scenes as in USA ....the first country where i hear  artists singing on their instrumental + lyrics lol ....

Oh yeah and those who are judging hip hop , base their thought on the crap they hear the radios ...
if i will judge pop according to what i'm hearing , it's gonna be super deep ....same for rock ect .....

it's like assimilating latina music to reggaeton (this is what's on radio there) !

my point is only....the ear of the beholder desides what is pleasurable

I personally have no use for Hip Hop, but how can people be so shallow as to dismiss it entirely and not respect others who like it? Everyone wants their freedom of speech, but they want to squash their neighbor's freedom of speech. Its always all about them, just like with politics and religion. Its absolutely disgusting what many people are. Some of you are so very shallow, so close minded, and generally just sad human beings. This forum and the world would be a better place without people who cannot be tolerant of others. Unfortunately this forum seems to protect a lot of close-minded thinking. Why do I come here again?