Dimension @ 96Khz/24bit - pitch wheel causes meters to shoot up to +99.9

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thx1200
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RE: Dimension @ 96Khz/24bit - pitch wheel causes meters to shoot up to +99.9 2009/05/05 17:25:38 (permalink)
Willy - First, thank you for your appearance in the forums here and addressing this topic. I sent you a PM but it's worth repeating some of what I said here.

The BBB / OCA move was ONLY mentioned as a way to get Cakewalk's attention. Understand that before I suggested this, it had been a YEAR since the bug was first reported, confirmed, replicated, and slated for a "future fix" (date undetermined). A year is a LONG TIME to wait for a product to work after you have already bought it. Also understand that at least half a dozen communications to support had taken place by myself and probably dozens by other users on the forums. That avenue was exhausted, so further action was required. BBB we came.

I'm a bit disappointed that it took 15,000 views on this thread before somebody like yourself appeared, but THANK YOU SO MUCH for joining us.

All I can say is "bygones" and "I HEART CAKEWALK" when this issue is fixed. It's important that Cakewalk understand that although they have good intentions and limited development time, I have purchased Cake products for nearly 15 years now and to see them essentially ignore a very core bug (certainly not obscure) really hurt! Seriously! I want to be a Cake zealot again. I want to be a Cake evangelist! I don't want to have to be an ****.

So, again, bygones, water under bridge. Just fix this bug! PLEASE! Thanks for showing up and opening the line of communication. It is much appreciated.
ChristopherM
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RE: Dimension @ 96Khz/24bit - pitch wheel causes meters to shoot up to +99.9 2009/05/05 19:45:44 (permalink)
While a customer service or tech support rep may not always know when an update will be available I can guarantee you that it is at least 900 times more effective at making the issue known to us than the BBB.
Actually, the reason I posted when I did was because when a company rep says something like I am as frustrated as you are with this issue but it is unfortunately out of our hands as to how/ when a fix might happen it is indicative of a company that is dysfunctional. Said rep should not have to vent to customers, which increases his frustration (I presume) and ours (I know).
thx1200
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RE: Dimension @ 96Khz/24bit - pitch wheel causes meters to shoot up to +99.9 2009/05/05 20:48:53 (permalink)
ChristopherM - I agree. Besides, how are we supposed to know the internal workings of this company? At the company I work, we take BBB complaints very, very seriously. In fact, we've never had a negative one, but when those spam emails went around a few years back pretending to be from BBB but instead were actualling trying to phish your credentials, I had some incredibly worried executives who were asking me to double and triple check that it wasn't real valid BBB complaints because they were ready and prepared to take action. Not to toot our horn too much, but we pride ourselves on excellent customer service.

As a consumer, in the past, I've had action taken almost immediately after a BBB complaint. One such complaint was against an action taken by HSBC to assess a late fee on a term that was not clearly defined in their terms and conditions (I paid "too early" if you can believe that). One letter later, the fee was reversed. Also, a friend of mine got a call from a Microsoft rep about the infamous XBOX 360 overheating/freezing issue after he wrote the BBB. This rep helped him replace his 360 with a new unit, helped him transfer all his apps and points (and whatever else). The BBB can be an effective tool.

So, at Cakewalk, it is perhaps 900x more effective to directly communicate (which I -- and many others -- did indeed do). But at many other companies, BBB complaints are taken very seriously.

Willy Jones [Cakewalk]
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RE: Dimension @ 96Khz/24bit - pitch wheel causes meters to shoot up to +99.9 2009/05/06 21:14:52 (permalink)
To clarify a few things:

But at many other companies, BBB complaints are taken very seriously.

I did not mean to imply that we don't take the complaints seriously. I was simply indicating that the BBB did not bring these to our attention through any form of communication.

it is indicative of a company that is dysfunctional.

I would strongly disagree with this suggestion. Everyone that works in support is a musician and Cakewalk user, the instruments team especially. If a product has an issue it affects everyone at Cakewalk.

how/ when a fix might happen

Dates and release information is not something that support always has access to. Even when we do, we can't always share it directly with end-users.
post edited by Willy Jones [Cakewalk] - 2009/05/06 22:30:09

Willy Jones 
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shang
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RE: Dimension @ 96Khz/24bit - pitch wheel causes meters to shoot up to +99.9 2009/05/06 22:43:50 (permalink)
My only real gripe, besides the initial "it doesn't work" gripe, was that no one from Cakewalk until now ever poked their head up and said "We're working on it." I felt like I had to practically threaten tech support just to get them to acknowledge that the bug existed, and then they wouldn't say anything beyond "It's a known bug." There were no postings that I saw on the forum by Cakewalk about it. I just wanted to know that someday it would work. Even if someone would have said "We're working on it, but it is requiring a very complex solution so it may take up to a year before a patch is available", I would have accepted that. The utter silence is when people start filling in the gap with assumptions.

So long and thanks for all the fish,
Shang
ChristopherM
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RE: Dimension @ 96Khz/24bit - pitch wheel causes meters to shoot up to +99.9 2009/05/07 05:44:37 (permalink)

quote:

it is indicative of a company that is dysfunctional.


I would strongly disagree with this suggestion. Everyone that works in support is a musician and Cakewalk user, the instruments team especially. If a product has an issue it affects everyone at Cakewalk.


Willy - I am speaking of my general experience, not of Cakewalk itself, because, of course, I have no access to the inner workings at Cakewalk. That said, being musicians and Cakewalk users does not bear directly on whether a staffer is "as frustrated as you are with this issue". It was that expression that caught my attention. When insiders are expressing frustration and claim that they can't get anything done about it, that's a sign of a dysfunctional business. Why didn't Seth get hold of whoever is the product manager for Dim Pro and say "Hey, do you know there have been nearly fifteen thousand hits on this issue on the forum? Why don't you make a post to explain what the prognosis is? You don't have to breach any commercial confidences. Just reassure folk that we care and are acting". In other words, just as Shang suggests above. Instead, we get "it is unfortunately out of our hands", which must rank as one of the most ineffective things that a rep can ever say to a customer (or, in this case, nearly fifteen thousand customer).

Just trying to offer helpful criticism.
Marah
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RE: Dimension @ 96Khz/24bit - pitch wheel causes meters to shoot up to +99.9 2009/06/10 04:33:13 (permalink)
Apparently there was a hot fix for Dimension Pro v1.2 that "addresses specific issues when using the instrument at higher sample rates such as 96kHz and 192kHz." Thanks mudgel on the Sonar forum.)

http://www.kvraudio.com/news/11671.html

I don't see any obvious link for on the CW site's Dimension page.

Does anyone know if this will also work for Dimension LE, and where it can be downloaded? Hard to imagine that the fix wouldn't be the same for the Pro and LE versions, or why it wouldn't be made available LE users (which I am.)

(Forgive me if I'm just being dim and the link is right in front of my nose.)

Thank you!
post edited by Marah - 2009/06/10 04:59:03
techead
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RE: Dimension @ 96Khz/24bit - pitch wheel causes meters to shoot up to +99.9 2009/06/10 13:59:31 (permalink)
Just under your nose--top-most sticky thread at the top of this here forum. Here is the direct link: http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.asp?m=1738313
Marah
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RE: Dimension @ 96Khz/24bit - pitch wheel causes meters to shoot up to +99.9 2009/06/10 16:59:25 (permalink)
Doh! Thanks!
DaveClark
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RE: Dimension @ 96Khz/24bit - pitch wheel causes meters to shoot up to +99.9 2009/06/11 15:25:33 (permalink)
Hi all,

Don't be misled by Cakewalk's ambiguous statement regarding whether or not you need to download the default SFZ files.

Chances are you do if you upgraded to version 1.2 because although you may not have modified the "original" files, *they* did. I found that the version 1.2 files caused sound only in the right channel, for example, even though I did not modify the version 1.2 files. Apparently "original" doesn't mean "original version 1.2."

Regards,
Dave Clark

Jeff Sorbo
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RE: Dimension @ 96Khz/24bit - pitch wheel causes meters to shoot up to +99.9 2009/06/11 18:13:52 (permalink)
Anyone had success with the hot fix and working in 96 or 192 khz with certain patches or using pitch wheel?
I tried swapping the dll but didn't see any change in the above issue, but also noticed that in Plugin Manager and looking at properties of the dimension DXi it still shows "C:\Program Files\Cakewalk\Dimension Pro\Dimension Pro64.dll" as the file which is the old dll name (Dimension Pro 64.dll), but I see that the new dll is named "Dimension Pro x64". So not sure if SONAR is really seeing the new dll or if the Plugin manager just ignores the "x" prefix.

Hopefully someone else has tried the fix though it's odd no one has reported on it yet.

All the best,
Jeff
techead
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RE: Dimension @ 96Khz/24bit - pitch wheel causes meters to shoot up to +99.9 2009/06/11 21:05:56 (permalink)
My system could produce the problems described at 96kHz. A couple of months ago Cakewalk made two different fixes available to me to test on my system. The first fix solved one problem, then a bit later the second provided fix solved all the other problems. The second fix did cause a panning issue on my system when used with the original default sfz files but they sent me updated sfz files to match the hotfix and that totally resolved all problems at 96kHz that I had encountered. Dimension Pro works great at all sample rates I've tried on my system.
Marah
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RE: Dimension @ 96Khz/24bit - pitch wheel causes meters to shoot up to +99.9 2009/06/11 21:23:12 (permalink)
Hi.

Does anyone know if the fix works on, and is available to owners of, Dimension LE, which came with Sonar 7, and which had the same problems?

The download page requires a serial number for Dim Pro, which I don't have, as all I have is LE.

Thanks!
Jeff Sorbo
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RE: Dimension @ 96Khz/24bit - pitch wheel causes meters to shoot up to +99.9 2009/06/11 21:27:16 (permalink)
Hi Bob,

That's good news. I think I'm stuck with a CSLID problem or something similar, (or maybe because it's Vista 64 with it's different program data structure) now since I can't get SONAR to see the new dll whether it's in the original hot fix format or renamed to match the old dll name.
But for now I can't get Dimension Pro to open with the hot fix in place.

DaveClark
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RE: Dimension @ 96Khz/24bit - pitch wheel causes meters to shoot up to +99.9 2009/06/11 21:52:05 (permalink)
Hi all,

My results are the same as Bob's (techead's) for what little I've worked with it --- that is no audible distortion at 96 kSamples/sec and no pitch-bend squeal. I would be surprised if they fixed the whacky control and RPN/NRPN problems given that a certain developer once said they were "designed that way" or words to that effect.

WinXP Pro SP3, although I don't think it depends on O/S thanks to extensive problem verification, now so long ago I don't even remember for sure what year it was....

Regards,
Dave Clark



techead
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RE: Dimension @ 96Khz/24bit - pitch wheel causes meters to shoot up to +99.9 2009/06/12 21:36:46 (permalink)
Jeff, you said you've got Vista 64bit, but are you running SONAR 32bit or SONAR 64bit on Vista 64bit? If you have SONAR 32bit then you'll want the Dimension Pro 32bit DLL, but if you've got SONAR 64bit then you'll want the Dimension Pro 64bit DLL.
shang
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RE: Dimension @ 96Khz/24bit - pitch wheel causes meters to shoot up to +99.9 2009/06/24 01:55:46 (permalink)
So, I got the update and finally had a chance to test. These are my findings:
VSTi - works the same. I get the +99 on the "Kinder Place" patch, which I think is hilarious by the way. And the piano still sounds like a toy piano on the upper keys.
DXi - seems to have fixed both problems, but I can't tell for sure because I only get the right channel audio now. I see there are some mysterious "new original" sfz files being talked about. How does one get those? I don't see a link anywhere in the download area.

Edit: I tried some more patches with DXi and I am still getting the +99 on some of them. About half of the ones I knew were bad before are still bad.
post edited by shang - 2009/06/24 02:12:25

So long and thanks for all the fish,
Shang
mabian
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RE: Dimension @ 96Khz/24bit - pitch wheel causes meters to shoot up to +99.9 2009/06/24 09:36:09 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: shang

So, I got the update and finally had a chance to test. These are my findings:
VSTi - works the same. I get the +99 on the "Kinder Place" patch, which I think is hilarious by the way. And the piano still sounds like a toy piano on the upper keys.
DXi - seems to have fixed both problems, but I can't tell for sure because I only get the right channel audio now. I see there are some mysterious "new original" sfz files being talked about. How does one get those? I don't see a link anywhere in the download area.

Edit: I tried some more patches with DXi and I am still getting the +99 on some of them. About half of the ones I knew were bad before are still bad.


I haven't tested at high sample rates, but I also see the right channel only (VST version) on many patches (maybe all...)

Very very strange they haven't noticed this before releasing...

- Mario

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DaveClark
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RE: Dimension @ 96Khz/24bit - pitch wheel causes meters to shoot up to +99.9 2009/06/24 11:43:21 (permalink)
Hi Mario,

Please see my post #130 above about replacing the SFZ files. You probably do need to do that, even if you didn't modify any of the "default" SFZ files. *Cakewalk* modified them by the time version 1.2 came out.

Regards,
Dave Clark

mabian
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RE: Dimension @ 96Khz/24bit - pitch wheel causes meters to shoot up to +99.9 2009/06/24 11:56:11 (permalink)
Hi Dave,

thank you for the hint, so I'll try!

- Mario

Mario Bianchi
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shang
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RE: Dimension @ 96Khz/24bit - pitch wheel causes meters to shoot up to +99.9 2009/06/24 22:56:45 (permalink)
So, where do you get the sfz files?

So long and thanks for all the fish,
Shang
mabian
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RE: Dimension @ 96Khz/24bit - pitch wheel causes meters to shoot up to +99.9 2009/06/25 02:39:32 (permalink)
The files are available for download in the hot fix download page, displayed after entering the Dimension registration details.

I have tried using those files, and indeed the panning problem goes away... BUT... there are heavy differences in volume - I have some tracks with Dimension Pro guitars, for example RGC Mega Marsh Lead (at), that change volume a *lot* between the Dimension 1.2 DLL with its sfz files and the new fix with recommended sfz files.

*Edit* to explain that the difference is such that the patches have lower volume when heard using the new version of the DLL, and I think it's not only a matter of volume - I can hear differences like chorus and else, but maybe it's a side effect of some element being more attenuated than the others.

So, I am not using currently more than 44.1 KHz but I was planning to try higher sample rates soon; it seems I'll have to stick to Dimension 1.2 for the moment.

Not too good...

- Mario
post edited by mabian - 2009/06/25 03:00:26

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shang
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RE: Dimension @ 96Khz/24bit - pitch wheel causes meters to shoot up to +99.9 2009/06/27 18:01:20 (permalink)
mabian, thanks for the tip.

After a few tries it seems like the new sfz files have fixed the panning issue. And the piano patches sound good now. I still get the +99 thing on many patches though. DXi and VSTi are now the same.

I ran into an interesting thing. Even though I renamed the "Dimension Pro.dll" file in my VST folder to "Dimension Pro.dll_SAVE", Sonar was still picking up the old dll file. I had to remove it from the VST folder.

So long and thanks for all the fish,
Shang
shang
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RE: Dimension @ 96Khz/24bit - pitch wheel causes meters to shoot up to +99.9 2009/06/27 19:02:17 (permalink)
This is slightly off topic, but I just won Z3TA+ in a contest. I installed it and I'm going through the sounds and thinking "This sounds pretty cool for a cheap synth". Then a few patches later and I get the +99 thing with that too. When it happens in Z3TA+ it cripples the whole plug-in. I have to close Sonar and restart to get any sound out of it again. I'm glad I didn't pay anything for it. I wonder what the chances are of getting a patch for Z3TA+...

So long and thanks for all the fish,
Shang
mabian
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RE: Dimension @ 96Khz/24bit - pitch wheel causes meters to shoot up to +99.9 2009/06/28 04:52:10 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: shang

I ran into an interesting thing. Even though I renamed the "Dimension Pro.dll" file in my VST folder to "Dimension Pro.dll_SAVE", Sonar was still picking up the old dll file. I had to remove it from the VST folder.


Hi shang, glad to help.

This is *very*strange, I'll try as well moving the unwanted DLL out of its folder; could be a caching problem.

Now that the panning issue seems indeed fixed using the recommended sfz files, I have reported a level difference in same patch, same project, switching from 1.2 DLL and sfz files to the new hot fix ones.

I am using only VST currently.

- Mario
post edited by mabian - 2009/06/28 05:13:52

Mario Bianchi
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