I kinda agree with ANNIE... CW worked better when it had fewer features.  I can't get through an entire session without at least one "OFF THE WALL" reboot.

Worse yet, most of the time when I END TASK from SONAR NOT RESPONDING, it requires a complete system REBOOT... so like 5 minutes later, I am back in business... talk about BUZZ KILL.

BUt, on the other hand, if it didn't keep up with the JONES'S, we would all be whining about its lack of features.  I admit, SONAR is one complicated program but trying to be everything to every user isn't working either.

Jim

PS - Bye ANNIE.

Actually reminds me of how I discovered the bit NO NO of flopping around between bit depths back on Nuendo. I couldn't understand why my 32 bit projects all of a sudden had tons of pops and scratches when I exported to 16 bit. An engineering buddy of mine told me to use 24 bit instead but neglected to explain what dithering was. It lessened the pops and stuff but I'd still have to export a couple times to get a clean version. That was years ago. Man... I've learned SO much in that past 5 months from this forum. Even if Sonar was a total piece of crap (which it isn't) this forum makes the purchase WAAAAY worth the money. I've said it a couple times but the sheer reputation of this forum and Cakewalk service that gets talked about online was big deciding factor for me buying... and it's all true. ;-)

backwoods


Hey Beepster- Cubase is 64 bit.

You might be right about Logic Rain but my personal opinion is that it is  probably withering on the vine- like Sony Acid.  I know a few Logic users who are actually quite frustrated with the lack of updates- and yes, some of these guys are professionals.

I know what you mean - there's a 25 thread about Logic X on the Logic Pro forums, and some are indeed pretty frustrated.


On the other hand, in all honesty, the application is running A-1 and still gets maintenance updates - the most recent one last week I think. In terms of feature, it's pretty much on par w/ everything else out there. So it's an old piece of software but it really isn't obsolete. 


One obvious thing I can think of where Logic has to catch up is that it doesn't handle 32 Bit FP files. The audio editor and the sampler may also benefit from a few touch ups - I wouldn't be surprised if the acquisition of Redmatica was linked to that.

But for the rest, unless one considers having the equivalent of Melodyne integration in S1 a must-have standard (and I suspect the above-mentioned patent may very well mean that such a thing is in the works) or joining into the mixing desk emulation, every thing is pretty much on par w/ the current standards.

Most of the sales pitch for other daws I've heard and read in the last 2 years described revolutionary new features which are already in Logic, like swipe comping or a unified GUI (skylight).

Personally, besides for a few refinements, 32 bit FP support and maybe refreshing the all-too-grey GUI, I'm in no hurry to see the new version. I also work w/ Cubase, Studio One and Pro Tools, but w/ the exception of the integrated Melodyne in S1, there really isn't anything that stands out as years ahead - often the opposite. 

A lot if not most of the negative buzz I've read seemed to emanate from people who were simply using the wrong tool for what they wanted to accomplish imho - most of the time, my only answer would be Logic is not Ableton Live and you should be using Ableton Live.

As we say in Florida, "adios amigo."

Hey, I might as well be speaking directly to you John (as well as others posters like yourself). You're the one that first suggested my initial issues might be related to my old PCI based interface. Without info like that where would I be? Not to mention you are the first person that talked to me on here at what? 2 AM? lol... AND gave me tons of welcoming and encouragement to boot. Cheers, bro.

@Rain... Totally and the Techniques tab is off the chain even though I don't mosey down there as often as I should. Still trying to get a handle on the actual software for now I guess but even up here there is just a ton of general technique stuff getting tossed around I had no idea about when I started. Hard to believe it's only been 5 months. Surprised my brain hasn't started leaking out my ears from overload. lulz...

Well that tears it... GROUP HUG!!!

;-)

Linear Phase


IMHO..   Cubase now has, "an awesomely fantastic looking GUI."    What's under the hood, is the same exact program that crashed a lot at Versions SX 1, 2, 3..  and versions, 1, 2, 3, 4...  After 4, I do not know if it crashed a lot, but I am guessing, "it still crashes a lot."

I wouldn't want to be a software developer these days.


I'm always reminded of one of the first - if not THE first product - which NI created, called Generator, back in the late 90's. The ancestor of Reaktor. For a while afterwards, it felt like all of the products NI was selling and becoming famous for, like Pro 5 or B4, were basically stripped from Generator/Reaktor and re-packaged individually w/ a nice GUI. And we all bought in, of course. It made life so much easier.

Incidentally, Cubase was one of the first DAW to offer default compression and EQ on every channel. Cubase VST 3.5 if I'm not mistaken. It wasn't modeled after anything, but the principle was there. Same for Tape Saturation. In Cubase 5, you even had the option to record your audio in either 16, 24 32 bit or True Tape mode. But their mixer looked better back then. ;)

When I saw Cubase 7 announced yesterday, my initial thought was this will hurt the wallet. But after I watched the vids and read about it on the web site, it's almost as if I dodged a bullet. It sure improves on the workflow, but Steinberg had a lot of catching-up to do.

Oddly enough, Logic did the opposite. We used to have EQ controls and compression parameters (IIRC) built into the console. Now it's all plug-ins - but that compression plug-in stand toes to toes w/ the best emulations of FET, Optical, VCA and others...

It would be easy for me to mock this thread and the OP, yet I've been in your shoes being very vocally dissatisfied when X1 came out. I didn't like it so I found a place to go, in my case back to Sonar 8.5.3. I could enumerate the reasons I find Sonar 8.5.3 superior, but that is off point and few ever actually bothered to customize 8.5.3 enough to get it anyway. The bottom line is that you need to find an environment that works for your needs. You don't always need the newest and flashiest application or plugin - find what works for YOU and get to making music. I wish you the best and hope you find your solution.

John


Rain and Beepster this forum is better for you both being on it. You both offer a lot for me. You both have an uplifting way of posting that makes us all better. 


Rain I too have cut my teeth on this forum. I have learned so much that its like an education. I knew MIDI well long ago but when I started with digital audio this forum and the newsgroup before it held my hand and led me to the promised land. 

Sure it was never the only source but its one that holds tons of heavy duty knowledge within it. I only wish one could find it. LOL!!!! 

P.S. I was also on the Emagic newsgroup too. Logic holds a special place for me.

Cubase is a fine program that I gave up on. LOL. Sonar was just so much easier to do stuff with.  

Same here, John. 


I remember turning to the old newsgroup in despair the first time I considered hooking up the old Akai XR-10 to the PC via MIDI when I realized the creative potential this would unleash. I had read the manual - including the very arid parts about SysEx and NRPN - but until then, MIDI was a forbidden land... I knew nothing about that stuff. 


But help was there, and later here on these forums. So much that 90% of my productions are now MIDI based and I get to introduce people to that stuff... And a lot of people had to answer my newbie questions along the way. 


During the last holidays, I helped one of my wife's friend w/ his new PC/Sonar rig, and for every question I answered, I remembered how these forums helped me.


Incidentally, the first time I managed to help someone from the newsgroup w/ Pro Audio and the console's signal flow was a direct result of having read the manual so often. I've kept that first Cakewalk manual nearby in the studio until I moved in 2008. And hooked up many folks w/ Sonar since. 


I'd certainly have X2 installed if it was available on my platform.

I am extremely open minded when it comes to these things...
and you have to be...not everything works the same for everyone.

Seeing as that I still own Cubase 5 I will check out the Trial Version of 7.  (already Trialed 6...while vastly improved, I still had a hard time liking the interface and workflow - and I used Cubase for YEARS prior to the switch to Pro Tools, from which I switched to X1 upon it's release)
I'm also still hoping for a Trial of Digital Performer 8.  I've been checking out the videos and am, thus far, fairly impressed)

But I can tell you this, they're gonna have to kick some serious Bootay...to kick X2 off the throne...
It just "feels right" to me...and THAT is where you have to land.

I rag on the Bakers all the time...but it's only to make the product better.
I keep hoping.

X2 has been rock solid for me on Win 8.  As I stated in another thread, my only issue is that

my IK Multimedia stand alones won't function because they don't see the Win 8 Quad Capture driver (but the VST's work just fine in X2)

Still waiting for the X2 Win 8 patch to come out of the oven.....
hopefully the timer goes off soon!

And hopefully IK get's off the stick and brings their programs up to date...
Oh wait...it's not "i" related...so probably won't happen for a while...

Coming on a software's forum and announcing your departure is a bit like closing your Facebook account, i.e. the adult version of running away from home. You're just doing it for attention, and everyone knows you'll be back. 

Beepster
IIRC Pro Tools is still 32 bit limited so it would be a good selling point considering they are a major competitor. 

I still find it incredible that Pro Tools seems no closer to a 64-bit version, given that it's the *cough* "Industry Standard" *cough*. 


From what I've heard, it's going to require a complete rewrite of their audio engine, so God knows how long that's going to take them. I remember when speculation was rife that Pro Tools 10 would be 64 bit, and yet it wasn't. 


One thing's for sure. If they're going to be releasing a 64-bit version of Pro Tools that's essentially a rewrite from the ground up, I wouldn't like to be an early adopter. 

Beepster


Wow... it destroyed the formatting even more as soon as I hit post. lol

The chart is in the link. If I did end up investing in Steinberg I'd likely use it mostly more for the actual editing phase. That's the one part of Sonar I find to be really annoying and unstable. Particularly slip editing. Mind you maybe Cubase does the same kind of stuff these days as well (I would prefer an option to be able to manually choose my editing tools as opposed to the silly hotspots at the start/ends of clips... the constant zooming is bothersome).

Hi Beepster... I've commented on this elsewhere but just wanted to let you know that the need to zoom in and out to hit hot spots while obviously happening for you and others isn't 'normal', or not here anyway. Therefore I would assume that it is a bug seen with specific setups which is hopefully likely to be fixed rather than a design issue that will need to be re-designed.

Regarding the Cubase 7 mixer 'look' which is obviously very subjective, is it me or does that resemble the old Sonar pre X1 mixer? I never really liked the look of that either.

Craig,

I liked your post.  Made me think of a service someone could offer. A hardware expert that has the skills to determine what is causing the problems.

My newest problem is that when I first load my DAW, there is NO AUDIO.  But by hittimg stop and play a few times, the audio starts up.  There is NO audio drop out message, just NO AUDIO.  And then BINGO, it starts to work.  I am using the OCTA puss audio card (with latest drivers). And a huge user of UAD2 plugs (Running 6.3.0 since UAD admittedly has issues with SONAR now).  I am not assuming that CW is the problem and as you noted, probably the combination of my hardware setup/workflow.

But, it sure would be cool if an expert could provide remote support and shoot the problem(s) to stablize the system.  My DAW was supplied by ADK (same idea as you stated, let the experts do the build). All of my software and plugsin are purchased (NO DEMO mode or Cracked software).

I don't know enough to start changing settings on my DAW.

Not whining, it is just something I have learned to live with and not blaming CW at all.  I mentioned earlier that Sonar has to be one complicated program to be designed to work with all the environmental variables it needs to deal with on top of its core application.