bapu
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Re: Has the Songs Forum died?
2014/02/26 12:16:41
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jamesg1213
Jeff Evans
Maybe the Songs forum had died because Paul McCartney is the greatest composer of all time and really everything else is just nowhere near as good and worth listening to.
Yep, that's what Sting reckons, anyway.
Quantumeffect may choose to differ?
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spacey
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Re: Has the Songs Forum died?
2014/02/26 13:25:00
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It died for me @2010.
Not for right or wrong reasons to be debated....
I wasn't learning about mixing and that is why I was there.
I didn't mind listening to others and offering my take but since
there was no balance achieved, it tipped over.
It became a time/value issue that ended up with my time doing
other things giving greater returns.
Now if I could record and post results and get specifics about the mix from here
at work.......lol.....but I don't imagine the results would change.
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bapu
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Re: Has the Songs Forum died?
2014/02/26 14:53:15
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paulo
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Re: Has the Songs Forum died?
2014/02/26 16:08:40
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bapu
paulo
Yup, there's been a me, me, me culture for some time now. It got particularly silly about year or so ago and it just turned me right off of it. I do look in occasionally in the hope that it's gotten better, but it doesn't seem to. I can't be bothered to post stuff now - seems little point when most are just interested in themselves or keeping themselves at the top of the page. I don't even listen to that much any more as I make a point of not bothering with those who participate only in their own threads, which seems to be the majority. It's quite sad really, there used to be some great songs and some great people in there and it seems that many have become equally fed up with the way it has gone and moved on.
{tongueInCheek}
Ah, so we should demand that
1. Only good songs be posted. Then the reviews will be appropriate.
2. No one should post any songs (especially the bad ones), and only reviews should be done.
3. Musicians should not want recognition for their efforts, WTF were they thinking?
4. The songs forum should just be shut down, it pointless anyway
{/tongueInCheek}
Mae'n rhaid i chi wedi defnyddio google cyfieithu os ydych yn credu bod yr hyn yr oeddwn yn ei ddweud.
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bapu
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Re: Has the Songs Forum died?
2014/02/26 16:10:36
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paulo
bapu
paulo
Yup, there's been a me, me, me culture for some time now. It got particularly silly about year or so ago and it just turned me right off of it. I do look in occasionally in the hope that it's gotten better, but it doesn't seem to. I can't be bothered to post stuff now - seems little point when most are just interested in themselves or keeping themselves at the top of the page. I don't even listen to that much any more as I make a point of not bothering with those who participate only in their own threads, which seems to be the majority. It's quite sad really, there used to be some great songs and some great people in there and it seems that many have become equally fed up with the way it has gone and moved on.
{tongueInCheek}
Ah, so we should demand that
1. Only good songs be posted. Then the reviews will be appropriate.
2. No one should post any songs (especially the bad ones), and only reviews should be done.
3. Musicians should not want recognition for their efforts, WTF were they thinking?
4. The songs forum should just be shut down, it pointless anyway
{/tongueInCheek}
Mae'n rhaid i chi wedi defnyddio google cyfieithu os ydych yn credu bod yr hyn yr oeddwn yn ei ddweud.
ya
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paulo
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Re: Has the Songs Forum died?
2014/02/26 16:18:22
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bapu
paulo
bapu
paulo
Yup, there's been a me, me, me culture for some time now. It got particularly silly about year or so ago and it just turned me right off of it. I do look in occasionally in the hope that it's gotten better, but it doesn't seem to. I can't be bothered to post stuff now - seems little point when most are just interested in themselves or keeping themselves at the top of the page. I don't even listen to that much any more as I make a point of not bothering with those who participate only in their own threads, which seems to be the majority. It's quite sad really, there used to be some great songs and some great people in there and it seems that many have become equally fed up with the way it has gone and moved on.
{tongueInCheek}
Ah, so we should demand that
1. Only good songs be posted. Then the reviews will be appropriate.
2. No one should post any songs (especially the bad ones), and only reviews should be done.
3. Musicians should not want recognition for their efforts, WTF were they thinking?
4. The songs forum should just be shut down, it pointless anyway
{/tongueInCheek}
Mae'n rhaid i chi wedi defnyddio google cyfieithu os ydych yn credu bod yr hyn yr oeddwn yn ei ddweud.
ya
meddwl hynny ....
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craigb
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Re: Has the Songs Forum died?
2014/02/26 18:39:31
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Can I buy a vowel?
(I try to avoid using Google Translator BTW.)
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
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Karyn
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Re: Has the Songs Forum died?
2014/02/26 18:44:03
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Why would you want a vole? Have you seen the mess they can make? (and they attract cats..)
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Mooch4056
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Re: Has the Songs Forum died?
2014/02/26 21:04:22
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☄ Helpfulby bapu 2014/02/26 22:05:53
I think if John Mutt Lange was hired by cake to be in charge of the song forums it would really take off again.
I'd keep Bapu out for sure becuase I don't think Mutt would like him that much anyways.
Even though I like Bapu fine I know a Mutt would not.
Can we make this happen you think? Who does the hiring and start up projects at cake?
From Now On Call Me Conquistador!
Donate to the cure Bapu Foundation Email: mooch4056@gmail.com for more info
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webbs hill studio
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Re: Has the Songs Forum died?
2014/02/26 22:23:13
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maybe not everyone wants their songs "professionally"critiqued.
What is the Techniques forum for if not for discussing recording techniques??
I suspect a lot of people are put off posting their own material because it may not be technically perfect,especially when,IMO,most members here are enthusiasts/hobbyists etc and not Mutt Lange!
I know I am not and my criteria for a good song is if more than one person is dancing to your song,and it`s not your partner,then it`s a good song.
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bapu
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Re: Has the Songs Forum died?
2014/02/26 22:36:59
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When I've participated in a song in the Songs forum I primarily share it for exposure. Secondarily, critiques on the mix is considered (even if not applied) if I did the production. Finally if is an original piece then thoughts on song structure, lyric or melody is welcomed (even if not applied). Since I feel that songs I participate in fall into two classes; 1. Collaboration with serious intent 2. Collaboration with full buffonery in mind On # 1 it's nice to hear if performances were well met by the listener. But given that we are recording and not producing a "live" performance, that's less of a concern to me because I cannot tell you if the collaborators played their parts in one take or comped it all. On #2 it's all about the buffonery, and if that works for at least one person, the job is complete IMO.
post edited by bapu - 2014/02/26 22:41:10
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webbs hill studio
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Re: Has the Songs Forum died?
2014/02/26 22:42:48
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plus 1 for buffonererey-it`s impossible to have too many laughs.
cheers
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bapu
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Re: Has the Songs Forum died?
2014/02/26 22:43:56
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webbs hill studio
plus 1 for buffonererey-it`s impossible to have too many laughs.
cheers
The worry is that the serious stuff will be mistaken for buffonery. 
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webbs hill studio
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Re: Has the Songs Forum died?
2014/02/26 22:49:44
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have a listen to Dread Zeppelin`s first album-musical bufoonery at its best-makes me smile everytime,and it rocks!
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Mooch4056
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Re: Has the Songs Forum died?
2014/02/26 23:57:39
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☄ Helpfulby bapu 2014/02/27 00:17:20
bapu
webbs hill studio
plus 1 for buffonererey-it`s impossible to have too many laughs.
cheers
The worry is that the serious stuff will be mistaken for buffonery.
See?!!! Mutt Langue or however you spell his name does not like buffoonery ..... Which is why I don't think him and Bapu would work well together to save the song forum. Ashame really Mutt could have saved us all .... Oh well
From Now On Call Me Conquistador!
Donate to the cure Bapu Foundation Email: mooch4056@gmail.com for more info
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bitflipper
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Re: Has the Songs Forum died?
2014/02/27 00:58:26
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webbs hill studio
...if more than one person is dancing to your song,and it`s not your partner,then it`s a good song.
Added to my "forum quotes" collection for posterity. Right next to Herb's classic observation... If they had a button "Delete Sucky Mix" this forum would not be big
enough to contain all the whiny, crying commentary about...."oooops...I
pushed the DSM button, now I don't hear anything....what do I do?" threads.
 All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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craigb
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Re: Has the Songs Forum died?
2014/02/27 02:22:24
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bapu
webbs hill studio
plus 1 for buffonererey-it`s impossible to have too many laughs.
cheers
The worry is that the serious stuff will be mistaken for buffonery.
Shirley you can't be serious! 
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
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olemon
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Re: Has the Songs Forum died?
2014/02/27 07:01:01
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I last listened and posted some comments about a month ago. I last posted a song about then too. I want to share songs here - though I've done a couple lately I haven't shared - and I like getting mix suggestions. Giving suggestions is sometimes harder because music outside of my genre is tough to evaluate or even listen to sometimes. But, as a singer/songwriter first, and a recording novice second - not an audio engineer or a professional musician - I am importing pre-recorded samples or loops into Sonar and then editing and mixing there. If I'm going to be criticized here for doing that, then I'll limit my song postings to other sites where that method is accepted.
I like Sonar. I like this site. I've received much great help here. I read posts and offer comments if I think I have something to add. I've cruised the Songs forum a few times of late, I don't see too many new posts there, but I'll probably swing back for some listens soon.
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spacey
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Re: Has the Songs Forum died?
2014/02/27 08:16:40
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webbs hill studio
I know I am not and my criteria for a good song is if more than one person is dancing to your song,and it`s not your partner,then it`s a good song.
Or they're drunk.
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Rimshot
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Re: Has the Songs Forum died?
2014/02/27 08:53:01
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The song forum is a good outlet for anyone who wants to get some kind of feedback on their material. It's better than nothing and is much better than Presonus song forum due to a much smaller participation rate compared to Sonar. I do think that many of those that comment here are being more polite than honest. No one wants their feelings hurt. Those that do make good solid suggestions really can help make the song/production better but there are not a lot of those contributors around IMO. I generally try to give feedback but have been very busy lately with work and my live jazz band. I mean to get back in there on a regular basis but not to just blindly compliment but to try and make a difference where I can. I recall in the old days taking my cassette tapes around to A&R departments in Hollywood. You would sit there while the A&R guy listened to about 10 seconds per section of the song before fast forwarding or stopping. The song, lyrics, vocals, and mix all had to grab him right off the bat or they went to the next song. That is not the same as posting a song on the forum for critiquing but since most are not signed artists, we should expect more honest feedback if we are to grow. Rimshot
post edited by Rimshot - 2014/02/27 08:57:28
Rimshot Sonar Platinum 64 (Lifer), Studio One V3.5, Notion 6, Steinberg UR44, Zoom R24, Purrrfect Audio Pro Studio DAW (Case: Silent Mid Tower, Power Supply: 600w quiet, Haswell CPU: i7 4790k @ 4.4GHz (8 threads), RAM: 16GB DDR3/1600 , OS drive: 1TB HD, Audio drive: 1TB HD), Windows 10 x64 Anniversary, Equator D5 monitors, Faderport, FP8, Akai MPK261
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spacey
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Re: Has the Songs Forum died?
2014/02/27 09:26:44
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If there is lack of participation then there are reasons.
There may be many reasons that nothing can be done about. "Nature of the beast" so to say.
One reason that I believe to be "nature of the beast";
It has a majority of people trying to learn. They get advice from people that are trying to learn.
The advice is generally different - "turn up the bass"...."turn down the bass"....and very often the advice is about something the OP wasn't in question about and made that clear.
It's very troubling when one gets advice from another that has posted demonstrating they have the same issues and are asking for advice IF they are looking for more than just participating with peers.
It's all much different than having an evaluation of ones material by a professional in a professional listening environment. That is something that I just can't see happening in a forum over the internet.
If one truely wants to learn about mixing they'd be better off sending high quality files to a pro, which may be a member, or a song writing forum...specific forum for specific interests.
What does one expect to achieve from Song Forum participation and can that be achieved there?
Lack of participation supports that it doesn't supply what many are looking for. For whatever reasons one may want to believe.
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craigb
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Re: Has the Songs Forum died?
2014/02/27 13:14:48
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As a side note, I'm in several forums including a couple that are not music related and it's been noticed in all of them that participation is down.
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
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jamesg1213
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Re: Has the Songs Forum died?
2014/02/27 13:24:54
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Personally (and I know this may sound a bit trite), I just like listening to what other people are doing.
I don't particularly want to offer mix advice, but will if something leaps out at me. I'm more interested in the writing, the playing or the arrangement really. Likewise I don't really mind if no-one offers me mix advice, but once I've finished a piece of music, I want people to hear and hopefully enjoy it, otherwise, there wasn't much point in doing it.
I just find it a bit curious that a forum which is all about recording music, has (seemingly) so little interest in listening to music created by others with the same software.
At the very least, there's inspiration to be drawn there.
Jyemz Thrombold's Patented Brisk Weather Pantaloonettes with Inclementometer
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bapu
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Re: Has the Songs Forum died?
2014/02/27 14:07:15
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jamesg1213
.... I don't really mind if no-one offers me mix advice, but once I've finished a piece of music, I want people to hear and hopefully enjoy it, otherwise, there wasn't much point in doing it.
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Wookiee
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Re: Has the Songs Forum died?
2014/02/27 14:12:44
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bapu
jamesg1213
.... I don't really mind if no-one offers me mix advice, but once I've finished a piece of music, I want people to hear and hopefully enjoy it, otherwise, there wasn't much point in doing it.
Agreed
Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass, it's about learning to dance in the rain.
Karma has a way of finding its own way home.
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jamesyoyo
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Re: Has the Songs Forum died?
2014/02/27 18:35:23
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☄ Helpfulby SteveStrummerUK 2014/02/28 02:34:58
A lot of you know me. I was a pretty frequent poster and commentator in the songs forum. When I first joined a lot of folks took exception, even umbrage, to the way I was critiquing their tunes. I would really listen closely and point out the spots that irked me sonically and structurally, and offer suggestions. After giving so much advice and seeing it unheeded, it dawned on me that many posters just wanted a pat on the back, and that was really it. But that wasn't what I went there for. My home got hit bad by Hurricane Sandy, and in the last 16 months I have barely participated at all. I actually had plenty of time but little desire. There are a few jerkoffs who end up causing a lot of discord over there, and it really got me bothered to be spending so much time there with so little reward. Along with: - The incessant "Work In Progress" songs that never progress...
- Too many lousy recordings...
- Too many LOUSY songs, where folks are barely trying to get better...
- The lack of real good competent listeners who can provide solid feedback...
- The lack of willingness of the actually good competent listeners to provide solid feedback...myself included...
- Thin-skinned posters who cannot take honest, thoughtful and insightful pointed commentary without going into fits of rage...
- The voluminous and obligatory "sounds great, thanks for sharing" posts...while nice, this gentility, in effect, neuters the dynamic so much. And encourages more of the same.
- Posters who have rather long conversations with themselves. And mostly about themselves.
Maybe things will change...I hope they do. That place used to buzz with great creative energy. Now it is mostly a mausoleum for the stymied dreams of middle-aged men.
post edited by jamesyoyo - 2014/02/27 18:40:23
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webbs hill studio
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Re: Has the Songs Forum died?
2014/02/27 19:22:12
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"Now it is mostly a mausoleum for the stymied dreams of middle-aged men."
thanks for your incredibly insightful comments James-will be interesting to check in on you in 20 years when you are also middle-aged,but then you are probably too talented and successful to end up being "stymied" like us especially with your good looks and apparent prodigious talent.
was almost tempted to post some concert footage or press photos of myself when I was your age but that would be pandering to my own egocentricity and that would be hypocritical as I am now an old man-wouldn`t it?
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jamesyoyo
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Re: Has the Songs Forum died?
2014/02/27 19:28:27
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webbs hill studio
"Now it is mostly a mausoleum for the stymied dreams of middle-aged men."
thanks for your incredibly insightful comments James-will be interesting to check in on you in 20 years when you are also middle-aged,but then you are probably too talented and successful to end up being "stymied" like us especially with your good looks and apparent prodigious talent.
was almost tempted to post some concert footage or press photos of myself when I was your age but that would be pandering to my own egocentricity and that would be hypocritical as I am now an old man-wouldn`t it?
No need to be a jerk about it, Webb...I am most certainly middle aged (48 this year) and place myself in the same mausoleum. Amazing how people mis-interpret universal commentary as private put-downs, but they are gonna read what they wanna read, no?
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spacealf
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Re: Has the Songs Forum died?
2014/02/27 20:01:16
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I just don't feel right about a music environment where I can not actually say what the mix was suppose to be. Perhaps the artist intended it to be that way - say the bass is too loud or some other part that seems not right to me. I just can not tell anymore, so actually I can not add anything that much if at all that would be useful. That is music! I think the performer or artist knows what he intended the song to sound like. I feel useless to try and critique the intent of music I can not know, but just listen to. obviously my comments may mean something but the usual "It sounds fine" just seem to get old to put down on. Obviously I do not like all the music I may hear and think it sound repetitive to other music, but then again, I think that I can not really say anything bad about it, after all if the mix is close, I can not tell how it was intended with the mix, then I feel it is not my place to say anything bad about it. I guess I lack the words to comment any more about any song. ?? And after-all I have made some comments where I thought the mix was wrong but henceforth have changed the way I think about any song - I can not tell what the artist intended so I just have no comment I can give. It would be like asking the person putting up the song: Is that the way you intended it to be? If he states in the first post that it is, or he still working on it, then what?? I am at a loss then as to anything to say. Perhaps I need a speech writer, but then that is not going to happen. All I can say is that the next song and some old songs I have done - you all should love! Well, I will leave now, because actually I feel I could do better with some and probably all of those to have began with.
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bapu
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Re: Has the Songs Forum died?
2014/02/27 20:41:33
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jamesyoyo
webbs hill studio
"Now it is mostly a mausoleum for the stymied dreams of middle-aged men."
thanks for your incredibly insightful comments James-will be interesting to check in on you in 20 years when you are also middle-aged,but then you are probably too talented and successful to end up being "stymied" like us especially with your good looks and apparent prodigious talent.
was almost tempted to post some concert footage or press photos of myself when I was your age but that would be pandering to my own egocentricity and that would be hypocritical as I am now an old man-wouldn`t it?
No need to be a jerk about it, Webb...I am most certainly middle aged (48 this year) and place myself in the same mausoleum. Amazing how people mis-interpret universal commentary as private put-downs, but they are gonna read what they wanna read, no?
I'm ready for this Juan 
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