Royarn, fantastic news that this has helped you, exactly why i started this thread, I hope it continues to be of use to people, and don't forget SledDog's excellent tip as well. I have not personally tried. Finishing up some accounts (boring) before I will allow myself totry, will keep people posted.

Noel, I was jsut wandering if you had an tips for instantly resuming plugins in general. I will contact Focusrite as well. Looking forward to hearing the output from you guys once you have had a Liquid Mix for a bit.

G

a new version of LM manager released.. doesn't look like it fixes our problems,, I tried the beta version of it and it didn't seem to help BUT does side chaining !!!!
LIQUID MIX V2.0 AT MUSIK MESSE 2007
Musik Messe sees the release of Liquid Mix V2.0, a new software release for Liquid Mix, Focusrite’s DSP-powered dynamic convolution mix solution, delivering 32 channels of EQ and Compression simultaneously.

The new software release will be available for free to download early in April 2007 and delivers a number of improvements over the original software. The new release makes Liquid Mix a no-brainer for producers and engineers wanting classic vintage processing, but with the flexibility of the digital world.

Liquid Mix v2.0 now features an EQ side-chain on the compressor, providing an additional one-band EQ to be fed into the side-chain of any classic compressor emulation. Combined with the existing ‘Listen’ feature, this provides the ideal solution for high quality de-essing and more creative compression.

V2.0 also ensures that the Hardware follows the Software GUI functionality in every way. V2.0 also delivers improved stability on both PC and Mac, making Liquid Mix rock-solid, even when operating with all 32 instances simultaneously.

For users struggling with buffer issues, Liquid Mix v2.0 offers variable buffer size as well as supporting large DAW buffer sizes, helping to ensure lower latency operation across all sequencers, and provide compatibility with software packages such as Wavelab, SoundForge and Audition.

These, combined with a host of other improvements, must surely guarantee Liquid Mix’s position at the top of the vintage processing emulation leader-board.

Found the below on teh RME Website, this suggests why SidSpeed is applicable to both 1394a and 1394b

1394a already had the SidSpeed (referred to as Speed Code in the RME articale) setting coded for 3 = 800. The SP2 throttling was completely uneccesary, and changing back to 3 therefore helps both 1394a and b.

Windows XP SP1 did not support FireWire800 (1394b). Nevertheless, it worked, although the full performance of FireWire 800 wasn't achieved in some cases. With the release of Service Pack 2, Microsoft decided to no longer 'ignore' FireWire 800, but to treat it correctly according to the current OHCI specifications (Open Host Controller Interface). For Microsoft, at this time 'correctly' means switching to the slowest transfer mode S100, equalling 100 Mbit per second, for reasons of safety and compatibility.

Microsoft quotes unclear OHCI specifications as the reason for this slow down. Indeed OHCI does not clearly define 1394b. Current FireWire 800 chips send a 2-bit speed code of 0x3 (instead of 0x2 = S400) in the Self-ID-Packet 0. But OHCI only knows this code as 'reserved'. At a second glance, however, it becomes obvious that Microsoft have simply not looked closely enough, because there are additional Self-ID-Packets being sent. Self-ID-packet 8 correctly specifies the speed with the three-bit code 0x3 = S800. Packet 8 had been already defined in the '1394a supplement', and is therefore not an innovation of FireWire 800

ORIGINAL: gordonrussell76

Hey POd

Quick question have you triend the enable tabbing trick on all your isntances of the liquid mix, it seems to really help as well.

Couple of other things to think about, is it on a completely seperate and dedicated PCI firwire card?
Check your PCi latencies vs your video card latencies. Make sure your firwire card is TI chipset.

Check what is sharing the IRQ with that pci card, also consider disabling all network related stuff if you ahve not already. Ethernet uses the 1394 protocol as well, so that coule be causing a resource conflit. Check the IRQ sharing at the BIOS level.

This is all stuff i did, turns out it was all set at optimum and it was the SidSpeed that was my blocker, it might be different for you.

Ain't poota's wonderful.

Since writing my first post i have rough mixed 2 more tunes using the LIquid Mix, and have got upto 18 channels in a project, also several gates and reverb bus, 2 instances of guitar rig (which is a cpu hungry mofo) and a few other bits and bobs.

It all reloaded perfectly, so its definately possible.

I still have not tested it at 32 channels yet, maybe i am old school when it comes to mixing but i jsut can't seem to find a use for more than about 16-18 of them. Still to have 16-18 plug of that quality and not even touch my CPU is great. I only have a 2.4 Ghz P4, and the project i described aboe was running at 70% cpu with no dropouts and with the 64bit engine engaged. Its about a 24 tracks project, and at that point was all audio, (I bounce my synths prior to mixing)
G

Hey Gordon, just catching up with the thread, thanks for all the help, mate. I'll check this out at the weekend.

I may never need 32 instances, but part of the idea of getting LM (ahead of UAD) for me was to feel free to slap 'em on my tracks without having to worry about running out ;)
Also I definitely don't want to find out where the limit lies by discovering that I can't reopen my latest project!!

Its quite interesting have been researching the LM load problem and if you type Liquid Mix Load problems into Google it turns out a lot of people have been experincing these issues in other sequencers, Including Logic and Cubase.

Well, well, well. So perhaps there is more that LM can do. Anyone tackled Focusrite about this? But Sonar is definitely worse for me than P5v2 or EnergyXT which are the only other sequencers I have. So I am sure there is more that can be done at the Sonar end too.

I am very pleased that Noel is contributing to this thread and that Cakewalk are getting a LiquidMix. Surely only a matter of time until a definitive fix is found.

More from the focusrite tech support site Audio tuneup tips for xp and the like they do mention the FW patch

http://www.focusrite.com/answerbase/article.php?id=264

I left a message with the tech support guy at the california distributors number about our problems I will await and see if he returns my call ...
as of this morning WEDNESDAY no call back,no hello , no go away you are bothering me ...

UPDATE
It is FRIDAY the 23rd and the chap at the distributor hasn't called back to inquire how I am doing, how is my LM , can I get you a coke, blah blah ... of course I am trying the American side not the factory side ,,,maybe the difference?

ORIGINAL: Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]

I don't have any suggestions - and without knowing why the plugins behave this way it would be hard to know the reason for your symptoms. Have you been in touch with the vendor yourself - they would be the best ones to ask about this. If they have questions to ask about SONAR they can always get in touch with me.
We currently dont have a LiquidMix inhouse but I heard one is being to be shipped to us soon.

I raised a tech suport request through the Focusrite website a couple of weeks ago after their reponse to my warning about Sonar and Liquid Mix on the Soundonsound PC forum. Haven't heard back at all :(

I had kind of thought the problems were more on the Cakewalk side simply becuase I have colleagues who are running the LM reliably (although noticebly sluggish on startup) with Cubase. I'll chase FR today.

thanks
Adrian

Yes I agree about the lack of knowledge/kudos for Sonar here in the UK, but I think that's changing because (a) Steinberg users getting more and more peed off with the support they are getting and (b) Sonar pricing is pretty keen.

Anyway, back on topic, I got an email from FR yesterday asking for more info, hopefully this is moving in the right direction, I'll post any info I get.

cheers
A

To access the registry simply go to the start menu and click run, a little dialogue box called run will pop, type regedit into this box and hit return, this will open your registry.

Yep its definately changing in Sonar's favour. It was Audiosnap that brought me over the fence, but i can think of a lot more reasons to stay now i have used it. Have successfully converted my guitarist to it, and he is working on a mate of his.

Its makes music on a pc fun again (or at last lol), rather than a chore.

G

ORIGINAL: gordonrussell76

To access the registry simply go to the start menu and click run, a little dialogue box called run will pop, type regedit into this box and hit return, this will open your registry.

If you've never edited the registry b4 you might want to back it up before making changes - use the export function.

cheers
A

Hey Gordon, good to know something might be going on wth this. I've been swapping emails with FR too and they confirmed they had sent a unit to CW for testing. Fingers and everything else is crossed here I can tell you....

For my part, things have got slightly worse rather than better. I paid for the S6 upgrade whch solved the mono plugin problem, but reduced the number of instances I can load without problems to about 3. I was loading 24 in a test project in S5. However, if I do the "reboot computer, restart LM, reload Sonar" routine I can usually load the file. But I'm not getting much work done while I mess about with this, and rebuild the odd file that I can't load.

That email from FR implies they think it might be an LM driver issue - doesn't explain why I can load projects in Reaper using the LM in 2 seconds flat every time. And p0d reported he could use Project 5 fine with the LM.

Ah well - thaks for the update and will let you know if I hear anything.

cheers
Adrian

Just found this on the Focusrite website, be nice if they put v2.0 up on there website rather tahn just show off about it lol.

Fingers crossed it might help us, suggests that there are issues on there side, the bit where it mentions stability with all 32 instances, suggests that that is somethign they know about, and is not specific to Sonar.

G

LIQUID MIX V2.0 AT MUSIK MESSE 2007
Musik Messe sees the release of Liquid Mix V2.0, a new software release for Liquid Mix, Focusrite’s DSP-powered dynamic convolution mix solution, delivering 32 channels of EQ and Compression simultaneously.

The new software release will be available for free to download early in April 2007 and delivers a number of improvements over the original software. The new release makes Liquid Mix a no-brainer for producers and engineers wanting classic vintage processing, but with the flexibility of the digital world.

Liquid Mix v2.0 now features an EQ side-chain on the compressor, providing an additional one-band EQ to be fed into the side-chain of any classic compressor emulation. Combined with the existing ‘Listen’ feature, this provides the ideal solution for high quality de-essing and more creative compression.

V2.0 also ensures that the Hardware follows the Software GUI functionality in every way. V2.0 also delivers improved stability on both PC and Mac, making Liquid Mix rock-solid, even when operating with all 32 instances simultaneously.

For users struggling with buffer issues, Liquid Mix v2.0 offers variable buffer size as well as supporting large DAW buffer sizes, helping to ensure lower latency operation across all sequencers, and provide compatibility with software packages such as Wavelab, SoundForge and Audition.

These, combined with a host of other improvements, must surely guarantee Liquid Mix’s position at the top of the vintage processing emulation leader-board.

Liquid Mix v2.0 is available for Musik Messe attendees to try out for themselves - simply visit the Focusrite booth – Number A50, Hall 5.1

That's good news, and to be fair even though projects take a while to load, and I get the white screen thing, if I re-boot etc every time they do at least load. And when I'm running I have no real problems at all, so it's not all bad. And yep I'm running 6.2.1 now, on a dual core machine with 2GB RAM.

ORIGINAL: gordonrussell76

Have you tried the enable tabbed trick on every instance of LM?

Oh yes

ALso have you checked your Sid Speed on your firewire port?

Oh yes

Basically all the stuff in teh above post, its worth double checking these things, especially after installing 6, just in case.

Oh, yes indeedy. I guess I may have missed something so I'll have a final look. FR also suggested playing with PCI latencies, which I did, no improvement.

take care
Adrian

hey Gordon I tried the latest beta from focusrite as listed in an earlier post and it seems to be working a little better.. I will try to load up a project with LM plug-ins and see how many i can use before it blows up...

I have just downloaded Version 2.0 Beta of the software, will be testing it later this week, will update you as to improvements, instance no and new features.

I have included the Release Notes and the New Features lists, note in the release notes they have done work specific to Sonar. I am well chuffed, we are getting recognition as a community from a UK company (UK is very biased to Cubase on the PC) Full marks to Focusrite and long may it continue.

The release can be found here http://www.focusrite.com/beta/liquid_mix/

Focusrite LiquidMix 2.0 Beta - 24 April 2007

!!! PLEASE SEND BUG REPORTS TO beta@focusrite.com using the guidelines described below!!!

Release Notes

2.0b26 - 24 April 2007

• fixed backwards compatibility issues wuith loading old sessions
• fixed some random crashes in Sonar & Ableton
• stereo link button now defaults to on in Wavelab

Known Issues

• Strange, 'aliasing' like distortion can occur occasionally during normal use.
• Left and right channels of stereo LM plugins sometimes become out of sync.
• The LM sidechain monitor button sometimes does not show/hide the SC section properly.

We are looking into these issues and hope to have them fixed asap.
Please report any new bugs or queries to beta@focusrite.com

Debug Log Files

During beta testing, it is very important to provide logs when reporting bugs and crashes.
To obtain logs of the Liquid Mix activity, you must create the following two blank text files:

C:\Documents and Settings\"Your Username"\Application Data\LiquidMix\LiquidMixManagerLog.txt
C:\Documents and Settings\"Your Username"\Application Data\LiquidMix\LiquidMixVSTLog.txt

When sending a report, please make sure to delete the contents of the file before proceeding ro
reproduce the bug. Clear the text file, then repro the bug, then send the text file with the
steps to repro the bug to beta@focusrite.com

Focusrite LiquidMix 2.0 Beta - 24 April 2007

New Features in Liquid Mix 2.0

Hardware Follows Plugin
There is now an option in the Liquid Mix Manager which allows for the selected hardware plugin to follow the selection in the DAW. When this option is enabled, if you select an LM plugin in the DAW it will automatically be selected on the hardware. If you have two Liquid Mix plugin windows open at the same time, the hardware will display whichever plugin has most recently received 'focus' ; that is, whichever one was clicked/selected most recently.

Sidechain EQ
The Liquid Mix sidechain EQ allows for a single band digital EQ filter to be applied to the input signal to the compressor. This is useful for number of applications such as de-essing a sibilant vocal track, or compressing a particular resonant frequency of a bass guitar. The sidechain monitor button switches between the main output signal and a sidechain input monitor signal.


Variable Latency
Liquid Mix latency is now variable. It depends upon two factors: DAW buffer size and the Liquid Mix Minimum latency setting (described below). You can check the Liquid Mix plugin latency at any time while the plugin is open by clicking the Liquid Mix logo in the top left corner of the plugin window. This displays the current sample delay of Liquid Mix plugins on your system.

Minimum Latency Setting
The Liquid Mix latency is tied to the DAW buffer size in the following way:

LM Latency = 2 x Daw buffer size + 8 samples

For example, if the DAW buffer size is set to 256 samples, the results Liquid Mix plugin latency will be 520 samples (2 x 256 + 8). This rule is true so long as the result is greater than or equal to the Minimum Latency set in the Liquid Mix Manager. In other words, the Liquid Mix latency is tied to the DAW latency down to a set minimum. For example, if the DAW buffer size is set to 128 samples and the Liquid Mix Minimum Latency is set to 520 samples, the resulting latency will be 520 samples. However, if the DAW buffer size is set to 256 samples and the Liquid Mix Minimum Latency is set to 264 samples, the resulting latency will be 520 samples. Remember, if this all sounds too confusing, just check the latency in the plugin window as described above!

Hi Gordon,

I'll be interested to see how you get on. Have heard through another forum of a user having crashes with the mono version. Haven't time this week to try it myself, maybe at the weekend.

The 'hardware follows plugin' feature should make life easier - the number of times I select a track in Sonar, twiddle a few knobs and then wonder why it's not having any effect!

take care
Adrian