Midi - should it go or should it stay ?

When I first started with Cakewalk, years ago.....I mainly used it for midi, creating backing tracks. It was relatively easy and trouble free, but midi editing was still young, and not very good, and sound cards were at the beginning of their days, pretty basic. These days, even though I have Splat, crazy editing, and sounds that are better than the real thing, I only use it for AD2 and some simple synth/piano tracks. I'm not even sure about that anymore, getting into loops and Elastik 2 this last year. All audio for me now mostly. But I don't really have any issues with production or editing of midi, which probably reflects my simplistic use more than anything. So I feel for the mostly midi guys who are really into it. Everything I've read over the last year points to a lousy midi base, which is surprising because of the heritage. I guess it's the old code, but I know nothing of these things.
 
So, my question is - what do most people use instead of Sonar for midi ? What's the benchmark for the new owners to pursue? Cubase? The other question is, when will midi bite the dust? Why hasn't it already. Is this something the new owners would even want to pursue?
 
I come from an old morse code background. Professional marine radio officer, and technician. I knew morse code, 60k watt transmitters, and clunky old valve radio receivers, would die one day. Satellites and digital technology ensured I was correct. But I also thought, at least 20 years ago, that midi would die too, sooner rather than later. But it's still kicking. How much, and for how long, is what I'm curious about.
 
Should the owners make midi better in Sonar, or kill it off, leaving it for the DAWS that excel in that area, paving the way for better sample and loop control ?
 
Love to hear some thoughts.

For anyone using the countless hardware synths on the market, MIDI support is essential.

For anyone using software synths, including those that come with Somar, MIDI support is essential.

A DAW that does not support MIDI instantly loses most electronic musiicians other than those who just chop up (if that) pre=recorded bought in loops.

In other words, a large part, probably the largest part, of the potential market.

I think it depends on MIDI activity.
For HW synth operations (SysEx banks, (N)RPN, drum maps, instrument definitions, etc) I guess Sonar is still up to the game (since nothing has changed there and it was good), with Cubase as an alternative.
For fast MIDI progressions building, Waveform has nice approach.
For script based processing of MIDI content, Reaper is hard to beat.
 
In general, Sonar has 2 weak points with MIDI: it does not support VST based MIDI processing (at least that is inconvenient and quite buggy) and has some unclear long standing bugs (skipped MIDI events, periodically strange MIDI timing).

Another midi user here. I seldom use anything looped, except from some African/Asian/etc. percussion libraries in Kontakt.
 
While Cubase may do some midi things better than Sonar, there’s one thing important to me it seems to be missing and Sonar has: ability to use .grv groove quantize files.

MIDI test...

Midi needs to stay.

MacFurse
Just like I don't really relate to EDM. VSTi's and lighting aside, why should Sonar pursue midi editing, when there are plenty of DAWS that do not ?

Sonar, Logic, Pro Tools, Cubase, FL Studio, Live, Studio 1, Reaper all support using and editing MIDI.

Off the top of my head the only two DAWs which don’t are Adobe Audition and Audacity plus sample editors like Wavelab.

I suspect the MIDI supporting DAWs combined outsell those that don’t have MIDI by a pretty big margin.

No modern DAW can succeed if it ignores electronic music creation and production, the use of modern electronic instruments or the control protocol, MIDI, most used by control surfaces and things like controller keyboards and pads. That you’re not interested in such things doesn’t alter the commercial reality any more than myself not being very interested in using pre-recorded commercial loops means I think Sonar, or any other DAW, would be wise to drop the features required to use them.

tlw
That you’re not interested in such things doesn’t alter the commercial reality any more than myself not being very interested in using pre-recorded commercial loops means I think Sonar, or any other DAW, would be wise to drop the features required to use them.

I guess I'm tongue in check suggesting it get dropped.. but the reality is that Cake has not put a lot into the midi side of the software for sometime. Is it an area that the new owners should pursue to put it at the forefront of DAWS is more the question? When I say there are DAWS that don't support midi, I mean fully. There are very few that do.
But if they do, will they take it to Cubase? Or indeed even any of the other DAWS in the 'pro' world? Sonar, sadly, has never made it to the 'pro' daws, irrespective of our opinions here on how good it is.
 
I have a feeling BandLab will want Sonar to do something very different in the future to what it does today. Hence the question. Should it go forward with midi, and try again for the pro market, or change direction? If it's the former, then very strong cases need to be put forward now. IMHO..

Without MIDI what would you use Cal for? 

dcumpian
I would rank DAW midi support in this order:
 
1) Cubase
2) Sonar
3) Logic
4) everyone else
 
Cubase has some really advanced midi workflows, but with it comes the burden of a lot of legacy code and workflows. Sonar's midi is actually pretty darn good, but is lacking in a few areas, primarily in regards to how it handles midi routing and keyswitch articulations.
 
All of the other DAWs have decent midi capabilities. Reaper has come a long way in the last few years, as has Studio One. Both are missing some advanced midi editing capabilities, but make up for it in other areas.
 
Killing off midi support in a "workstation" DAW would seriously hinder it, IMO.
 
Regards,
Dan

I suppose I should re-evaluate Cubase for MIDI. I haven't messed with in ages. It's also possible I never dug into the right menus on Cubase AI v6. I find, at least on Cubase AI v6, that the system is a rather confusing mess when I import a MIDI file.

Transform too is my favourite recent midi development. So nice to work with and so flexible, yet s simple. 
 
MIDI is her fr the foreseeable future, in a market flooded and still inundating with new midi synths, the potential for which keep growing, as modelling improves and breaks new ground, memory size becomes insignificant.
 
 
 
 

I use a LOT of MIDI in my projects and to be honest I haven't yet tried a DAW whose basic MIDI editing capabilities were so bad that I couldn't work with them. Even Pro Tools.

MIDI MPE demo with Roli Seaboard Grand.  Some DAWs and VST instruments are beginning to adopt the MPE standard.
 

 

MacFurse
 
I guess I'm tongue in check suggesting it get dropped.. but the reality is that Cake has not put a lot into the midi side of the software for sometime. Is it an area that the new owners should pursue to put it at the forefront of DAWS is more the question? When I say there are DAWS that don't support midi, I mean fully. There are very few that do.
But if they do, will they take it to Cubase? Or indeed even any of the other DAWS in the 'pro' world? Sonar, sadly, has never made it to the 'pro' daws, irrespective of our opinions here on how good it is.
 
I have a feeling BandLab will want Sonar to do something very different in the future to what it does today. Hence the question. Should it go forward with midi, and try again for the pro market, or change direction? If it's the former, then very strong cases need to be put forward now. IMHO..

MIDI is still very relevant, even more in later years with all these new great new hardware synth & stuff ... and even the old CV is back in business  I use both modern & vintage MIDI to CV converters & hardware synths ... Don't think they will drop MIDI support, and hey even the BandLab browser & phone app uses MIDI, it's not just a loop based app like some people think:
https://blog.bandlab.com/...ust-where-you-want-it/
I think the BandLab/Sonar combo has great potential 
 
Regards Thomas