More guitar making stuff...

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henkejs
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Re: More guitar making stuff... 2014/06/16 10:45:13 (permalink)
Just wanted to tell you how much I've been enjoying all your guitar making threads. Terrific stuff!

A few of my songs
 
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#61
batsbrew
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Re: More guitar making stuff... 2014/06/16 15:37:59 (permalink)
lightweight..
i'm convinced that that's where HALF the mojo is.....
 
 
 
and the reasons why the wood is lightweight to begin with..
if the gods and stars align, the wood fibers will align.
 
then all is right in the universe.
 

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#62
spacey
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Re: More guitar making stuff... 2014/06/16 16:08:06 (permalink)
batsbrew
lightweight..
i'm convinced that that's where HALF the mojo is..... 
and the reasons why the wood is lightweight to begin with..
if the gods and stars align, the wood fibers will align. 
then all is right in the universe.



henkejs- sure glad you're enjoying it and appreciate you letting me know.
 
Bat -
Man I hope the stars align...I sure hope this thing is worth playing some day.
 
I know each piece of tonewood in a build has a frequency and it will absorb those frequencies.
Now trying to predict the best frequency for the pieces in a build is way above my head.
It's really all a guess for me...until I play it. Then I'll plug it in and see if I got close with the pups...if not the cool
thing is that I don't have to spend big bucks to make changes.
I know I grew up playing a heavy LP and it had great tones...so I just don't know.
 
I decided to start on the pups since I'm on hold waiting on tools and materials.
So here's how I get started- right or wrong lol.
I'm building these to pre '70's specs.
 
 
Notice the eyes on the bobbin bottom on right.
The one on the left is after I set them.

I have a little anvil and tool to assure they are set correctly. It's a pain if you don't- they can
grab the wire and really mess things and time up.

I use the same press that I use for pressing frets to set the rods/magnets.
Different pups are sized differently so I use Maple spacers to keep things right.

After all the rods are in place I run a little super-glue around them to help stabilize everything and
then I spray a light coat of urethane. It's suppose to help keep them from shorting out and add some
protection should they get wet.

 
Tomorrow, I'll magnetize them and get to winding.
 
 
 
 
 
#63
michaelhanson
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Re: More guitar making stuff... 2014/06/16 18:12:03 (permalink)
Alright, making pickups.....this is getting even better, Spacey. I am eager to see how you magnetize them. Do you buy the basic components to the pickups cut to shape, or are you making the plates from scratch?

Mike

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#64
spacey
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Re: More guitar making stuff... 2014/06/16 20:56:21 (permalink)
MakeShift
Alright, making pickups.....this is getting even better, Spacey. I am eager to see how you magnetize them. Do you buy the basic components to the pickups cut to shape, or are you making the plates from scratch?



I buy the pieces.
Pretty easy to magnetize. I'll be using Alnico 5 - South up.
They may be to bright but I don't have Alnico 2 on hand but no big deal to change if need be....much cheaper to build them and modify if I want.
 
 
Two good magnets to pass the bobbin through.

Meter showing no charge.

After passing through the magnets. (Alnico 2 would probably max at @25)

 
What I didn't do was bevel the top of the rods like Fender did. I should, it would make it easier to
punch them through the vulcanized fiberboard (flatwork). That stuff is tuff. Easy to by sheets of it but
I don't have a laser cnc .
 
#65
spacey
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Re: More guitar making stuff... 2014/06/18 09:53:33 (permalink)
Completed the Alnico 5's.
Used 42 AWG PE.
(took readings this morning so they have cooled and are at room temp.)
Used 8500 winds for bridge- 6.42k
8400 for middle- 6.25
8300 for neck- 6.15
 
Grey bottom and wrapped.

Potted. ( don't do unless you know about the hazards)

Out of the wax. Readings will be higher- I got a 7.1+ on the bridge while hot.

 
A plastic pup cover can still be used.
 
I'll be building three more for this build.
It's said that the A5's are good for "warmer" woods and A2's are good for "brighter" woods.
I'll find out how true that is for me.
 
A tip;
 
Since many of the Strats have plastic bobbins it's easy to make a major upgrade and much cheaper
than purchasing new pups.
Get Alnico's and replace the steel ones- you can tell if yours have the cheap steel ones because there will be two magnet bars glued to the bottom of the pups.
 
There are two different rod diameters used, .187 and .195 - easy enough to measure and get the right Alnico ones that are @ $2.00 ea. So for about $12.00 per pup you can make a major tone change to the guitar. That sure beats $200.00 for a new set (3).
They are also offered in different lengths. One may be able to use one length and set as preferred it doesn't hurt if some extend out the bottom if there is room in cavity when pup height is determined.
 
The coil wire doesn't contact the magnets/rods with a plastic bobbin so it's hard to damage the pup changing the rods...but I know that some could.
Mojotone is where I like to get pup parts.
Yes you'll need two magnets as they don't arrive charged.
 
So for the price of about one pickup all three can be upgraded. I know many members here talk about making upgrades to their lower end models...this is the first one I'd do. This and knowing how important adjusting them is, is the place to start IMO.
 
Time for more coffee. Hope you enjoyed.
 
 
 
#66
craigb
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Re: More guitar making stuff... 2014/06/18 10:48:16 (permalink)
Cool stuff Michael!
(BTW - I'm hotter when potted too.  )

 
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#67
drewfx1
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Re: More guitar making stuff... 2014/06/18 11:22:26 (permalink)
spaceyThere are two different rod diameters used, .187 and .195 - easy enough to measure and get the right Alnico ones that are @ $2.00 ea. So for about $12.00 per pup you can make a major tone change to the guitar. That sure beats $200.00 for a new set (3).
They are also offered in different lengths. One may be able to use one length and set as preferred it doesn't hurt if some extend out the bottom if there is room in cavity when pup height is determined.
 
The coil wire doesn't contact the magnets/rods with a plastic bobbin so it's hard to damage the pup changing the rods...but I know that some could.
Mojotone is where I like to get pup parts.
Yes you'll need two magnets as they don't arrive charged.
 



Based on some recommendations, I've used a guy on ebay (who's cheaper and sells magnetized stuff) to get different magnets for a PU I wasn't happy with:
 
http://stores.ebay.com/Addiction-FX-Guitar-and-Sound
 
Not sure whether Mojotone has any advantages or not.

 In order, then, to discover the limit of deepest tones, it is necessary not only to produce very violent agitations in the air but to give these the form of simple pendular vibrations. - Hermann von Helmholtz, predicting the role of the electric bassist in 1877.
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batsbrew
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Re: More guitar making stuff... 2014/06/18 17:55:58 (permalink)
i just buy bill lawrence wilde pickups...
it's quicker.
LOL

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#69
spacey
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Re: More guitar making stuff... 2014/06/18 18:51:00 (permalink)
Craig- it's fun. I have a great time making them. Especially when I hook them up to the meter and get a reading! Glad some are enjoying the trip.
 
Drew it's sure great now that we have options to get parts. I wish it would have been that way when I was young.
 
Bat...nothing wrong with that. I turned 59 in May...I'm not in hurry about much of anything anymore.
 
 
 
#70
michaelhanson
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Re: More guitar making stuff... 2014/06/18 20:01:17 (permalink)
Just sitting back and enjoying this thread Spacey.....absorbing it all in.

Mike

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#71
drewfx1
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Re: More guitar making stuff... 2014/06/18 20:25:35 (permalink)
spacey
Drew it's sure great now that we have options to get parts. I wish it would have been that way when I was young. 




Right. You could buy whatever the local guys had or you had to travel a long distance (if it was available at all).
 
The only downside is now we can spend hours and hours looking who has what (and for how much) and sometimes there are 50 different examples of every last little thing. I can't tell you how much time I've spent on stupid things like HB mounting rings. 

 In order, then, to discover the limit of deepest tones, it is necessary not only to produce very violent agitations in the air but to give these the form of simple pendular vibrations. - Hermann von Helmholtz, predicting the role of the electric bassist in 1877.
#72
spacey
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Re: More guitar making stuff... 2014/06/19 00:16:37 (permalink)
This is an attachment I received to today for my fret-slot saw.



One can imagine that cutting the slots before the fretboard has been radiused can
make it hard not to leave an undetermined amount of space under the fret tang that
has to be filled or to shallow of a slot preventing the wire to press in. 
The initial cut made by hand is when the fretboard is flat and squared- not yet with a radius or tapered.  Opposed to something like a CNC machine that can make the cuts after the radius and tapered cuts are made. ( It's late and I'm tired...hope that makes sense.) I know "they" still have to fill-in after the CNC cuts too on unbound fretboards. I think MusicMan has a very cool way of doing it but I'm not sure how all of them handle it.
I wanted to improve how I handled that step. Repeatability with accuracy.
I think I've achieved my goals.
 
Now I can cut the slots and have the right depth. It's not perfect because fretwire isn't but it is
most excellent IMO.
Now I can make the first cuts and the depth is correct in the middle and after the radius taper are  made then
I can set the cutting depth to the edges of the fretboard.
Since the saw cuts on the pull it's just a good, smooth, accurate method now. ( less chance of chipping the edge with cut made on the pull)
This shot was taken right after installing the frets- I filed just enough on the wires edge so I could see how well it worked.
 

Now I know the initial cut is spot on in location(s) and depth is correct from middle to edges of fretboard with minimal fill needed if any at all.
Major milestone in fine tuning one of the processes. Extra cutting steps added but well worth it IMO.
Smart tool attachment...glad I wised up and got it.
 
 
 
 
 
 
#73
Rain
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Re: More guitar making stuff... 2014/06/19 00:45:23 (permalink)
Once again - amazing. Thank you so much for sharing that stuff!

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batsbrew
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Re: More guitar making stuff... 2014/06/19 10:36:14 (permalink)
that tool is bad @ss....
looks like something from the SAW movie franchise....
 
 
 

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#75
spacey
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Re: More guitar making stuff... 2014/06/22 11:05:03 (permalink)
Rain- you're welcome and thank you.
 
Well I can't say that I enjoy doing finish work...and now I'm on hold for about 30 days waiting for
the nitro to dry enough to fine sand and polish.
 
I made the mistake of applying the decal after the sand and sealer coat and then sprayed the amber tint. It wasn't chrome anymore! So had to refinish the front of head and take another go. Won't be doing that again.
Since it's a fretboard that is finished the I spray over the frets too. Nitro doesn't like metal so it won't be that hard to remove when it's time. As the decal they now do not look like the polished chrome that they were lol.
 
FWIW here is how it looks before I hang them up and wait...
 

 
Note: I can use this design because I don't sell guitars and this one is for me....besides, I own many Fenders and they don't make them like this.
 
 
#76
The Maillard Reaction
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2014/06/22 11:28:57 (permalink)

post edited by mister happy - 2018/02/26 13:25:11


#77
spacey
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Re: More guitar making stuff... 2014/06/22 12:37:24 (permalink)
Mike,
It's only on one side of the blade. It's about 1/8" thick so it rides nicely on the fretboard when set depth is reached.
 
Holding the saw 90 to fretboard, not tipping the saw at the edge and not slipping out of the slot are controls not to mess up. Having the shallow fret slot to start with helps but one sure doesn't want to slip out. Slow and deliberate cuts with the right tool and it will work.
I cut from each edge of fretboard to center- when the depth is reached across the board the saw depth guide glides across the board.
After all the cuts are made it's very easy to look down each edge and see if all slots are same depth.
 
It's the first neck I've done that required no fill work at the fret ends.
Since the wood preparation was correct and the frets are pressed in it made leveling go easy with very little metal removed. 
 
Now that I believe I've found an excellent method for this type of installation I can move on to others such as bound fretboards.  
 
 
 
#78
craigb
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Re: More guitar making stuff... 2014/06/22 15:20:35 (permalink)
But it IS greener on the other side of that fence Mike. 
 


 
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#79
batsbrew
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Re: More guitar making stuff... 2014/06/23 11:28:03 (permalink)
it looks awesome.
 
what do you use to take the finish off the frets, just a rub down with some steel wool?
 

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#80
spacey
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Re: More guitar making stuff... 2014/06/23 13:06:22 (permalink)
Thanks Bat.
I know I'll have to redo my method if I inlay anymore pickguards.
Although it did work there are a few areas where the "lines/ woods" don't match perfectly. I did taper the positive (guard) so when I clamped it down it would hopefully fill any little spaces (by the pressure wedging it in) but if that worked it didn't cover all of it.
I don't like filling. It never looks good and no matter how small the area is IMO.
 
 
 
That's a good question. I read Fender use to grind a groove in a nail head and scrape it off.
 
I waited a day and went around the frets with a razor blade. I hope it shrinks and releases from the frets.
I polished them before spraying so maybe that'll help in removing it.
I'll tape of the board, do what I have to and then polish them again while doing the fretboard.
 
I know I liked the way my '57 looked when I finished. It still had finish around the sides of the frets from the Custom Shop. Maybe this one will come out the same. My second one so really just going for it trying to get what I think it should be. I'll post the results and what I had to do...win or lose.
 
I've also read that some tape off the frets...I didn't want to go there. I'd probably blow it and not get finish around the bottom of the frets. Rather do the work polishing it off.
 
 
#81
batsbrew
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Re: More guitar making stuff... 2014/06/23 13:41:59 (permalink)
yea, i've seen older lacquered neck jobs, where the lacquer goes all the way up the sides of the frets.....
which i would think, over time, would chip and become grime grabbers.....
 

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#82
michaelhanson
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Re: More guitar making stuff... 2014/06/23 19:49:55 (permalink)
Rickenbacker basses have a glossy lacquered fret board. I haven't noticed any grime build up on mine yet.

Mike

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#83
michaelhanson
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Re: More guitar making stuff... 2014/06/23 19:59:53 (permalink)
Michael, you have got me started down this road. I took your suggestion on starting small. I have been wanting a Fender Strat again, for a while. I wanted some different tonal textures...so I was looking for single coil pickups and a maple neck, to offset all the rosewood/ humbucker tones I already had. I wanted to find something that I could learn to tweak, by experimenting on it myself.

I ended up finding a MIM Squier Strat at a pawn shop for less than $100. I went for this one because it has a full size Fender neck and body. Most info that I could find on the '91-'93 MIM suggested that many of them where made with left over necks and bodies from the California plant. I think this one has those traits, though I have not had a chance to take the pick guard or back plate off yet.

My plan is to star replacing all of the electronics, pickups, bridge and tuners...maybe even the nut, should I get ambitious. It seems like it is going to be a good platform to mod.

Mike

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#84
spacey
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Re: More guitar making stuff... 2014/07/05 09:25:24 (permalink)
Mike that is great and hope you get as much fun out of it as I.
I can say that winding pickups sure helps make it much more fun.
It's not expensive building the winder and I can wind 3 sets (9 pups) for way under
the cost of 1 set of Fenders (3 pups). I also know that in my life I have never met
one person that can tell what brand of pickup is in a guitar by only listening. The benefit is
that if you wind then you can adjust the pups to fit the guitar.
I now have 3 sets to try out when I get to start assembly- delayed by finish drying time.
 
It also seems that my idea is believed to be original...at least by the many that have seen it. (personally I don't care if it is or not)
There is a luthier in Texas Mike that is building one now using the idea- here is a shot-

 
I've been humbled by many luthiers with their compliments and have really enjoyed seeing where they are taking
the idea.
 
 
 
Here is the last set I wound.

 
All three sets are wound with the same number of turns; 8600, 8400 and 8200.
Two sets are Alnico 2 and one is A5. All readings are very close to the same- Range 6.47 B, 6.32 M, 6.12 N
I also kept polarity the same on all 3 sets- the middle is not RWRP. They are as pre CBS.
 

 
 
Have fun Mike!
#85
davdud101
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Re: More guitar making stuff... 2014/07/05 09:35:18 (permalink)
I've always been interested in building instruments, my friend built a start once... This is looking sweet, spacey!
 

 
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#86
Leadfoot
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Re: More guitar making stuff... 2014/07/05 12:28:06 (permalink)
Man, Spacey, you make my head spin when you start talking about all that technical stuff about winding the pickups. I wish I knew what you were talking about, as it looks so fun!
#87
spacey
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Re: More guitar making stuff... 2014/07/06 08:37:39 (permalink)
Thank you davdud101.
 
LOL Leadfoot!  I know how you feel...99.9% of the threads posted in the CH I don't understand (nor want to) and make my head spin. I'm experienced though so for years only attempt to read .10% of them and I know it's getting less...but my head doesn't spin much and know that there are only a few that I post the info for so it's all good! Very little cerebral collateral damage being done either way.
 
I still find the music doom and gloom threads very funny though.
 
#88
The Maillard Reaction
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2014/07/06 10:57:06 (permalink)

post edited by mister happy - 2018/02/26 13:25:21


#89
spacey
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Re: More guitar making stuff... 2014/07/06 11:59:52 (permalink)
Mike the black wrapped is a tape commonly used on pickups.
The white is string wrapped- black dyed potting wax was also used.
The copper is the wire coil exposed.
I did pot all three sets. They are all nice and tight wraps so wax is really just added protection.
The white and red bobbins I purchased from a new supplier - notice the bevel magnets difference from the other two sets.
 
None of the variations really matter. Most of the time they're covered with plastic covers.
The Tele bridge was exposed -white or black twine wrap or tape would be seen depending on what they were doing at the time.
 
 
#90
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