ORIGINAL: tazman

Which K*W are you using? 2885 or 2875?

Thanks,

I was using the 2875. I liked it a lot, but my UAD-1's didn't. I'm now using an MSI K8T Master2-FAR.

This is a review and specs of the RAM I'm using. No problems with it.

I have had a few problems with the MSI motherboard. Initially I had a few random lockups while running Sonar. After I uninstalled the Core Center Pro software (allows you to monitor CPU temps, fan speeds, voltage and adjust clock multipliers) that was bundled with it, the lockups went away. Occasionally it hangs on boot also. I'm praying for a BIOS upgrade that will address this soon. When it hangs and I do a cold boot, it fails to switch on my Delta 1010 breakout unit. Clearing CMOS is the only thing that fixes it.

Once I get it booted (the problem happens probably one of every 15-20 times I boot it and seems to be happening with less frequency lately) the machine runs great!

EDIT: I found that these problems were caused by a bad IDE ribbon cable, of all things. This machine boots and runs like a dream now. Solid throughout...

Your link goes back to this post.

Doh. Sorry HERE is the right link.

Okay, thanks to everyone's help here, I just built a machine whose price and performance so far I'm very happy with.

Athlon64 3200+ ($279)

Chaintech VNF3-250 mobo w/ the new nForce3 250 Chipset ($77) (I would have got the Gigabyte K8NS Pro, but it was not in stock anywhere, and the chaintech one has been getting pretty kickass reviews on the nerd forums for a little more than half the price, but a little less functionality).

1 Gb Corsair ValueSelect RAM, PC3200 DDR400, ($180) (matched kit of two 512 sticks)

Win XP home ($90)

Floppy drive from Staples ($12)

Antec case w/ 350 temperature-controlled power supply and rubber-gasketed drive bays for quiet ($66, including shipping)

Already had a dual-monitor video card and monitors.

Already had two fast ATA hard drives and a DVD R/W.

Already had cables, mouse, keyboard.

Call it yep's 80/20 rule DAW.

So all told, for about $700, I got a system that can handle practically as many plugins as I can think of using (so far) at the lowest possible latency without coming close to the redline on the CPU. Pretty good stuff, and I tip my hat to you fine folk for the help. For another $200-$300, I could've bought disk space, mouse/keyboard, cables, and a dual-monitor video card (CompUSA currently has a pretty good one for $50, after rebates), and come away with a pretty killer DAW for less than a grand.

Here's the funny thing- I tried the sonar test, and I cannot get my CPU meter to go below 18%, nor above 44%, no matter how I adjust the latency/buffer settings. Like, the 18% is with about TEN SECONDS of latency- doesn't matter. In almost the entire useable range I'm averaging about 35%.

This is all very preliminary- I'm not hooked up to my regular soundcard(s)-- so far, this is all with a Tascam US-428 that I have in my room near the interweb, and the tascam is USB 1.0, so the latency slider bottoms out at 5.8 ms. this is not an "audio engine won't engage" thing, it's just that 5.8ms is what the setting is when slid all the way down when this soundcard is hooked up. I will post more when I can check it out with the Delta or aardvark.

You didnt say what your numbers were at 1.5 ms with this system. Since we have the same proc and memory, I would be curiuous to know,

Thanks,
Steve / Featherlight Studios

" I would glady pay you Tuesday, for the datails today"

Athlon64 3400
Gigabyte K8N Pro
1gb (2x512) Corsair TwinX 3200 DDR
Lynx 2 in ASIO
Sonar 3.1.1
Win XP

THIS IS THE EXACT MACHINE I PLAN TO BUILD

HAVE YOU CRANKED DOWN HARD ON IT WITH ANYTHING OTHER THAN THE TEST FILE?

ARE THERE ANY MOBO PROBLEMS HANGS ECT?

ORIGINAL: ScottS

Another data point:

Athlon64 3400
Gigabyte K8N Pro
1gb (2x512) Corsair TwinX 3200 DDR
Lynx 2 in ASIO
Sonar 3.1.1
Win XP


23.2 - 26%
11.6 - 29%
5.8 - 32%
2.9 - 41%
1.5 - 58%
.7 - 93% (although the engine ran you can't really do anything at this rate or the engine will dropout)


Scott

ORIGINAL: ScottS

Another data point:

Athlon64 3400
Gigabyte K8N Pro
1gb (2x512) Corsair TwinX 3200 DDR
Lynx 2 in ASIO
Sonar 3.1.1
Win XP


23.2 - 26%
11.6 - 29%
5.8 - 32%
2.9 - 41%
1.5 - 58%
.7 - 93% (although the engine ran you can't really do anything at this rate or the engine will dropout)

We have this exact system and I have to say that I am becomming somewhat suspicious of some of these reported specs. We have tried this system with 3 different sound cards ( MOTU 2408, Layla24, RME Multiface ) and in none of these setups have we been able to even come close to these numbers. 10-20% higher in all setups. With Audio Windows XP Pro with all Viper tweaks and NO other apps running. This leads me to belive that must be a HUGE difference between sound cards and their respective drivers. We just finished building Scott's Gigabyte system with a Athlon 64 3200+ and Corsair TwinX3200llpt and could even come close to those numbers he reported. 15% or higher on the exact same system build. The only factors that we can see that are responsible for that much difference is either the sound card or the monitor setup. Most here have shown dual setup with either CRT or LCD. Either way thats a sizeable difference in numbers from just those two factors.
Finished Sid Vicious's build two days ago with a Layla and the gigabyte board and we were 20 points higher!

Its an Athlon 3200+ right now ( Set in Bios to default clock speed and voltage )
Abit KV8-Maxx3 mobo
1 gig Corsair XMS Twin X PC3200LLPT at CAS 2.0 2-3-2-6 At 1T ( default voltage 2.6v ) ( increasing to 2.7+ had no effect )
Previously Had Muskin running CAS 2.0 2-3-2-5 At 1T ( No Difference )
System Drive WD 80 gig 8 mg cache 7200rpm IDE 1 UDMA 133
Audio drive Maxtor 120 gig 8meg cache 7200 rpm IDE 2 UDMA 133
Zalman Ultra Quite Fan
500 watt Ultra Q-Platinum Series Enlight Power Supply
4 U Space Rack Case w/4 fan industrial pack.
Windows XP Pro all tweaks+Black Viper
Sonar Producer 3.1.1. No LAN, No Raid, No Internet, No Firewire ( all disabled in Bios & Windows )
I/O buffer size 256 ( smaller numbers produce slightly poorer scores )
No Dither / Full Chase Lock ( trigger and free wheel produce indentical scores )
Sound Forge 7.0a
Waves Gold 4.
No other apps.
NVidia GForce 2MX Twin View 32 MG ( Had ATI 9600 128 Mg DDR..No Difference in Test )
Motu 2408 MK1 ( Test Scores Shown )
RME Multiface ( Test Scores were .05-1 point lower cross the board..newer drivers no doubt )

WDM

1.5 84-86% Plays for 1-2 minutes & Dropsout
2.9 55-57%
4.4 45-46%
5.8 40-42%
7.3 36-38%
8.7 34-36%
10.2 33-35%

ASIO Panel scores the same (+ or - .05 point either way)

Have tried 5 different Memory types all very Low latency 2-3-2-6 or lower
Have tried the Gigabyte K8N PRO
Have tried the Asus KV8-SE
Have tried Intel Pearl w/ 3.0gig P4

All, except the Intel P-4 gave VERY similar results accross the board. Changing only a point or two from configuration to configuration.
From this I can assume that either Displaying two monitors while testing chews up a lot of CPU or Driver compatibility is a HUGE factor.
Though strangely enough, the difference between the New RME Multiface ( fantastic drivers ) and the older MOTU 2408 MK1 was slight at best.
I would be curious to know EXACTLY was memory and CAS settings were used in the faster tests and what mobo configurations as well.
Some of the settings displayed here seem pretty amazing to say the least.

I would be curious to know EXACTLY was memory and CAS settings were used in the faster tests and what mobo configurations as well.

You may be on to something there. Your setup matches both other A64 3200+ desktops posted at 5.8ms latency but curves a little higher as the latency is drawn down.

--------Paul--CP----Featherlight
5.8ms-41%--40%--41%
2.9ms-51%--50%--56%
1.5ms--------72%--85%

Paul posted:
Gigabyte GA-K8NNXP with 1 gig corsair 3200LLPRO

CP posted:
GIgabyte K8NPro with 1 Gig matched Corsair TwinX PC3200

No timings were listed. I suspect a small change in timing is making a large difference at low latencies. However I can't imagine any faster timings than what you've already got.

In either case the chart is not reflecting the reality of those posted A64 3200+ numbers above.

On the bright side, you're matching the P4EE at 3.2GHz for $594 cheaper. Doesn't that feel good?

I'm in the market for a laptop and would like to know if there's any point in getting one with the new processor.

I think it'll be between an Athlon64 notebook and a Pentium-M notebook... although I'd be surprised to see the new Pentium-M overtaking the A64s in this test.

-S

Sorry, forgot to post the real numbers- I'll have them up a little later tonight. But as a teaser- for the money I spent, this system rocks!

Cheers.

ORIGINAL: Featherlight

Okay, thanks to everyone's help here, I just built a machine whose price and performance so far I'm very happy with.

Athlon64 3200+ ($279)

Chaintech VNF3-250 mobo w/ the new nForce3 250 Chipset ($77) (I would have got the Gigabyte K8NS Pro, but it was not in stock anywhere, and the chaintech one has been getting pretty kickass reviews on the nerd forums for a little more than half the price, but a little less functionality).

1 Gb Corsair ValueSelect RAM, PC3200 DDR400, ($180) (matched kit of two 512 sticks)

Win XP home ($90)

Floppy drive from Staples ($12)

Antec case w/ 350 temperature-controlled power supply and rubber-gasketed drive bays for quiet ($66, including shipping)

Already had a dual-monitor video card and monitors.

Already had two fast ATA hard drives and a DVD R/W.

Already had cables, mouse, keyboard.

Call it yep's 80/20 rule DAW.

You didnt say what your numbers were at 1.5 ms with this system. Since we have the same proc and memory, I would be curiuous to know,

Thanks,
Steve / Featherlight Studios

Okay... I'm using a MOTU 828mkII which is a firewire interface that uses WDM drivers, so the latency slider settings are not the same as PCI-based ASIO soundcards, so I can't give an exact apples-to-apples comparison, but I used some latency settings that are close to The Test ones (I have a Q10 that would probably work with the regular settings, but it's set up on my old PC in the drum room and I don't want to deal with loading Aardvark's finicky drivers onto the new machine).

45.7ms--28/29%
23.9ms--30/31%
10.9ms--34/36%
6.5ms--38/42%
2.2ms--55/62%


The slider won't go any lower than that (I think maybe because firewire is a little slower than PCI and has a built-in latency?).
I've been using this system for probably 5-6 hours a day average the past two weeks or so and it's a rock. No overclocking or timing adjustments of any kind, very minimal tweaking (disable onboard souncard and network card, adjust system settings to "background services" and "best performance.") I'm happy. Thanks to all who posted and especially Scott.

Cheers.

Has Anyone had luck with the Newer Nvidia 250 chipset on other boards? If so, with what memory / timmings and soundcard?I fear that the older drivers are really going to suffer with these new A64 systems. Hoping Echo releases some new ones for the Layla24 so we can jump off our aging 2408 Mk1!
Wont be able to try any new boards for a while cause its off to New Orleans for a week for some computer 'de-tox' !!

am wondering why my system is so slow. I figured I would get a bit better performance especially at 5.8ms... Anyone any thoughts?

P4's don't really start shining without the 800MHz FSB or a large cache. The lenghty pipeline creates a huge penalty when a branch is mis-predicted so the larger bandwidth and lower latency involved in getting to cache or RAM, the better the chip can deal with having to re-fill it's pipe.

That also makes them picky on platforms. The 845 chipset for example has only one channel of DDR RAM and can't fill the FSB with the bandwidth it needs, so performance suffers.