Well .. +2
 
Think I have already said it somewhere in that long thread but here I go again.
 
The big plus for me would be to be able to manipulate midi data with a standard music notation GUI. Examples:

• Articulation marks (legato, staccato, etc.) would trigger appropriate samples in software such as orchestral libraries. Much simpler to use that key switches or different midi channels for each articulation
• Intensity marks such as crescendo and decrescendo, PPP to FFF, etc. would affect velocity, CC11 or CC7, or any combination. Simpler than enveloppes or those panes in the PRV
• Tempo marks would be linked to the tempo track. Idem for accelerando and decelerendo marks

Programs such as Notion, Sibelius, and others do that tpe of stuff but I don't necessarily need all the power of those programs. Just a music notation GUI to manipulate midi data is a manner that is more intuitive for a classically trained musician.
 
For everything else, SONAR is there and is the best. That sounds like a MasterCard ad ... 

Staffpad is very intriguing! Came across it last week.
That it will import/export MIDI and MusicXML is a bit plus.
Michael
 
Other info as to specs here:
http://apps.microsoft.com/windows/en-us/app/staffpad/ce714f58-1113-4c30-a9a3-f14a0fb5d7ed

• 
  Import MIDI/MusicXML
  
• Export to MIDI/MusicXML/MP3/WAV
  

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing, Konrad - keyswitches would be great in SV, but I think there would have to be some type of per-track mapping to support the particular keys used by any given synth.   Similar to INS files for external synth patches.    If a Staccato mark simply shortened the MIDI note duration then I could see something like that working across the board, but I don't think that's what most would want.
 
Now things like velocity on the other hand...
 

In my opinion, there are not enough Sonar users that read music well enough to demand that Cakewalk develope a better notation editor! Until the demand goes up Cakewalk will probably continue to keep notation editing and printing on the backburner! This is one of my biggest complaints about Sonar! I keep Cubase 4, and Logic Pro 8 and even Finale 2008 around for midi and notation!. I even use Print Music 2011 on my laptop and a few other computers to do notation but I actually think if Sonar developed it's staff view more I'd use just Sonar!
 
Boykin

I know for a fact, that Steinberg have made a really valiant attempt addressing the issue. Although it does not exist in Nuendo (it's optional) in Cubase you have tools that mean accessing your library articulations from the same view.
 
Another way I used to do it was use a drum map to trigger each sample type or use a separate track lane to do it. Like said before you could use MIDI FX to trigger certain events also.  

They should at least offer it as an extension if they don't want to include it as a main feature. The beta test would take forever though.  
 
I can read music to a certain point if not fluently. To a certain extent, many people don't exploit CAL and if they somehow combined that with the Notation side of things it would make a Sonar possibly a 1-stop solution.

ronboy1952
In my opinion, there are not enough Sonar users that read music well enough to demand that Cakewalk develope a better notation editor! Until the demand goes up Cakewalk will probably continue to keep notation editing and printing on the backburner!
 

I think you'll find that many musicians that read or score use daws other than Sonar.
That's a valid enough reason to fix or develop it further.

ronboy1952
In my opinion, there are not enough Sonar users that read music well enough to demand that Cakewalk develope a better notation editor! Until the demand goes up Cakewalk will probably continue to keep notation editing and printing on the backburner! This is one of my biggest complaints about Sonar! I keep Cubase 4, and Logic Pro 8 and even Finale 2008 around for midi and notation!. I even use Print Music 2011 on my laptop and a few other computers to do notation but I actually think if Sonar developed it's staff view more I'd use just Sonar!
 
Boykin

 That's because they are now Cubase users.  I wonder for Sonar to have improved staff view they would have to rebuild from scratch and the resources devoted to that are not worth it.

There are some differences between the PRV and the staff view that as a programmer, I see. PRV allows for precise positioning of events along the timeline and for intricate control over CCs. Both of those things have historically been the bane of notation programs. In the PRV I can shift the timing of events so they work better with the library I'm using. Perhaps the attacks are a bit slow so I can shift the notes forward in time until they sound right. In staff view, this can cause the notes to be mis-drawn. This is true of dedicated notation programs as well. 
 
 

interpolated
Most programming is modular, so whenever they are making changes and improvements, they are not rebuilding the entire program from scratch. So surely it would be a case of reinvention of the current score view by creating a new one, if the programmers find the changes causes too many other issues. After all, isn't the Score View just fonts represented values in symbols. The same information can be viewed 3 ways - PRV, List Editor and the current score view.
 
So my school of thought would be to team up with a 3rd party developer who actively designs and codes Score View.
 

Not long after the current Sonar was released Noël Borthwick spoke about Cakewalk having sought expertise outside for work on notation without success. So in the programming world it's a very specialised skill set needed. I think a more reachable set of fixes and updates as posted in this thread by jsg, is what is most likely to be realistically and successfully brought about.
Noël made it very clear that Cakewalk have a deep desire to get to the notation issues in Sonar but desire and ability are 2 different things. Now that Cakewalk is backed by a stable parent perhaps many of the latest Ng standing issues will eventually get fixed. It can't have been an easy road for the employees either over many years of instability at the corporate level and still have a demanding customer base to satisfy..

I would be interested to know how many different posters have contributed to these 440 posts.

vintagevibe

mudgel

Noël made it very clear that Cakewalk have a deep desire to get to the notation issues in Sonar 

Yes.  They have made it very clear for 15 years.  I'm sure it will be very clear in another 15 years.  There might be a fix here or there (history says otherwise) but people who are hoping for a well designed and robust staff view need to look elsewhere.  It will never happen in Sonar.

:-(
been here for 15 years myself so I understand your point.

Hi sorry I took so long to come back to this thread.
 
In reference to the message from Konrad above. I am not a computer programmer so I don't know how it could work but if Notion can do it with Miroslav Philharmonik, Sibelius and Finale with various software I don't see why this would not be feasible for SONAR. Also I don't see this as a pure "classical composer" tool. It is more a question of having a music notation GUI to manipulate midi data. If it requires closer integration with the library why not do it with Dimension Pro. I strongly believe that the details in articulations, dynamics and tempos are more important than the quality of samples for realism. Proper orchestration is even more important. Not just for classical or cinematic stuff but for jazz, big bands, vocal arrangements. EDM is another story. IMO everything there is about sound texture, beat, ambiance, etc. I would like to venture into that eventually.
 
Another approach would be similar to VST Expession maps in the Cubase world. I never used it but from demos on You Tube it looks interesting.

Sidroe
Just for the record, Notion has a sister program called Progression that is all about guitar notation. I have it and it is pretty powerful. Sometimes you can catch a sale on it.

When I bought Notion, I made a call to see what the diff is.  I was told that Notion is a superset of Progression.

But as far as the actual guitar notation is very much geared towards guitar chart work. Progression is very similar to Notion but Notion does not have ALL of the guitar notation tools. Check out some videos on YouTube.
I use Notion quite a bit, standalone and ReWired in to Sonar when I need that capability. It works very well but I still would like to see a full blown integrated notation feature built in to Sonar.

I have Notion and have tried out MuseScore (which is quite nice). I like Notion for the most part and it is easy to use to create a score. But creating instrument maps (rulesets) is very time-consuming, especially when you have many patches. 
 
Michael - I could create 2 versions of each composition, 1 for sound, 1 for the score. Sadly that's just too much effort for me. I tried starting in Notion and then exporting into Sonar for the final tweaking, but I always end up changing something that *should* be updated in Notion. And of course I don't go back and update it. 
 
Cubase-like expression maps would be an awesome addition to Sonar! I watched a video on Groove 3 where expression maps were used to do some pretty cool things. That's something I would love to see.