OK, my votes are in...  Let me know if it doesn't show up for any reason.
 

So I just listened to the IHR podcast. Great as always. Thanks to Dave Chick for editing out the parts that made me sound like an idiot.

bitflipper


So I just listened to the IHR podcast. Great as always. Thanks to Dave Chick for editing out the parts that made me sound like an idiot.

It's very cool!  I just had a listen - Really fun to be on that popular podcast.  Dave Chick did a great job - YEAh, especially with that un-idiotizing editing he did.  hehe.

Randy B.

Since Bitflipper and I are famous now from being on Dave Chick's podcast, you Have to vote so you can say you rubbed elbows with us.  Simple as that. 

And if you heard the podcast, you'll have heard Chick mentioning that he entered the contest too.  --Intriguing.  The king of home recording - which entry could be his?--

Randy B.

4 days before the deadline!  Then - Prizes, Fame, Fortune - AND revealing of all info - what library/synth was used for each track, who produced it, and techno details.

Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote

Redundant Randy

Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote Vote

But just once, please.

Finally did it! After getting a top three used a 7 point comparison scoring 3,2, or 1. Ended up a 1 point difference between 1 and 2, and 2 and 3. Really a tie.

Here's my criteria: Be interested to hear how others judged.
1. 0 to 18 sec (Opening)
  A. Trumpet and winds heard.  If no wind sound....cast out.
  B. Triplet reinforcement heard right away.
2. 18 to 36 sec (String lead)
  A. Hear as string lead.
  B. Hear triplet string & horn backing.
  C. Hear counter melodies in right instrument.
  D. Doesn't sound like strings over mush.
3. 36 to 50 sec (Trumpet return)
  A. Trumpet solo clear.
  B. Trumpet triplet heralds dominate. (Some versions I couldn't even hear the trumpets.)
  C. Seems to build to something
4. 50 sec to end.
  A. Wind trills. ( Apparently no one but me took those seriously. None of my picks had them).
  B. Climbing line heard distinctly.
  C. Some attention to dynamics of the finish.
5. Percussion
  A. Hear timp AND snare AND bass drum AND cymbal. Anything else a big plus.. But none of my picks had a cymbal sound I could hear.
  B. Big plus for hearing the glock.
  C. Snare sounds like an orchestral snare not a tenor drum with loose change on it.
  D. Percussion sounds constantly as scored.
6. Dynamics
  A. Hey... some change in dynamics. At least string section sounds a little softer.
7. Overall Sound
  A. Consistent.
  B. I like it

John

John6528


Finally did it! After getting a top three used a 7 point comparison scoring 3,2, or 1. Ended up a 1 point difference between 1 and 2, and 2 and 3. Really a tie...
5. Percussion
A. Hear timp AND snare AND bass drum AND cymbal. Anything else a big plus.. But none of my picks had a cymbal sound I could hear.
B. Big plus for hearing the glock.
C. Snare sounds like an orchestral snare not a tenor drum with loose change on it.
D. Percussion sounds constantly as scored.
6. Dynamics
A. Hey... some change in dynamics. At least string section sounds a little softer.
7. Overall Sound
A. Consistent.
B. I like it

John

Really nice going, John-- What a great post.  This is the most thorough comparison criteria chart I've seen so far for this event.

With only a few days left in the voting period, and with votes now having slowed down to the sloooowest of trickles, I don't think more detailed discussion is likely to influence too many people - So I want to give back some discussion to one of the points you brought up.

Going backwards through your post to #5, percussion:

"...D. Percussion sounds constantly as scored..."

This is a perfect example of how different people are apt to have different expectations.  Concerning the percussion, my criteria was exactly the opposite.  If people left the dynamics of the percussion constant and unchanging as in the MIDI file, I held it against them. 

The percussion track is the most problematic part of this file for several reasons.  But most important to remember is that this Isn't the score - this isn't the way the Star Trek movie theme was actually written.  This MIDI file was worked up by ear, and rather inaccurately. 

Regardless of how this isn't the real score, for me, music always needs to be interpreted, not reproduced in some theoretically "correct" way - meaning that to me there's no such thing as one definitive version of anything ever written.  So I Don't want to hear what I've already heard - I want to hear what somebody can do with a piece of music.

This percussion tracks, because of the primitive nature of the MIDI sequencing, not only needs the most work, but is the part of the sequence most open to interpretation.  We can see/hear that rolls were intended, but the entries which left the literal, robotic notes as they are in the sequence got demerits from me because the point was to make a given piece of software sound as good as we're capable of making it sound--and no soft synth/instrument library can sound good playing quantized 32 notes. 

A tympani roll is indicated, as well as a bass drum roll and snare drum roll.  All of those needed to be re-recorded from scratch to make the most out of the music's intentions.  For me, entries that did more with the cymbal in these final measures got bonus points because the single crash at the beginning of the final sequence is inadequate. 

And while it's classical and proper to have those rolling measures flat line out until the end, I find it more interesting, more modern, and exciting for those rolls to have a crescendo to them - so I gave bonus points to entrants who took the initiative and made those final measures swell. 

So there are several points here - This isn't the real, authentic Trek score - Music should be interpreted and not merely parroted back the way it's been heard before - The percussion tracks in this sequence needed to be heavily edited to work well, and people who used their own sensibilities to re-do them garnered extra credit from me, especially to those who did Not present merely what was in the sequence.

How's that for a start on discussion!

Thanks for the launching pad.

Looking forward to more people weighing in on the various aspects of this contest.

Randy B.

Hi John,

Although I agree in principal with much of your criteria, a real orchestra wouldn't necessarily score 100%.  The separation isn't going sound like a Steely Dan record.  Certain instruments in certain ranges blend together, or cover up each other...it's the wonderful sloppy reality of acoustic instruments played by human beings in a hall. 

In loud passages the brass overpowers the woodwinds, but the woodwinds blend into brass texture and makes it feel more 'legato'.  Woodwind in forte passages are about half as loud as the horns, but in softer passages they are about the same. 

There's a lot to simulating an orchestra and even with the best MIDI mockups the illusion is only about 40% there.  With MIDI mockups my basic criteria is "did it take me there?" 

I've been holding back on these discussions until the vote is over. There are a lot of things about all the entries that are good as well as out of place (imo).

with the best MIDI mockups the illusion is only about 40% there

Dare I say that often it's only 20 - 40 percent?

I approached the thing from the point of view of demonstrating the various synths used. So would have been nice to hear a little of all the sections of the orchestra. Unfortunately the layout of the piece was such that there was no way to show off everything and be left with any kind of artistic unity or quality. After all my analysis paralysis non of my choices had even most of the things I was looking for. I agree that trying to make the winds hearable sounded a little silly given the nature of the piece. Also noticed most people paid no attention to the piano.



John

Even though I agreed that we probably jumped the gun on some of this discussion, I've seen the new posts come in and have to add something:

"...Also noticed most people paid no attention to the piano..."

I really think that's not an accurate way to assess the results, John.  We know the piano was a questionable instrument to even have in this file, well actually there's no question that it really shouldn't be in there.  But there it was, so everyone had to deal with it.  It's only proper position in this is as a percussion instrument adding a bit of bite and ring, but to bring it up to the level of being distinguishable as a piano - then it would have been out of proportion to the nature of the piece. 

To re-phrase what you said, I would say that in the tracks where you can't really hear the piano, that's very likely because the producers of those tracks Did pay attention to it - They very well could have realized the piano's proper position in this was sublimated.

Arrrrrrgh, I can't get the genie back in the bottle!  I said we were probably discussing things prematurely - but I can't stoooooooop myself--heeelllllllp I'm being a compulsive poster!!!! 

Randy B.

Bofff!!!  Let's see that like a spaghetti sauce.  Some will like the spices, others the vegetables, with carrots, without carrots, that meat and etc...
The beauty of the thing is when we will know witch synth was mix with this and that kind of effects...
Just my 2¢
Nice weather here in Montreal
Have a good day, it's 12 o'clock diner time...
G.

Votes are still coming in, but the count spread is still surprisingly narrow. It would appear that there is merit to Muzock's assertion that everybody has their own criteria for judging spaghetti sauce and orchestral movie themes.

Just a reminder: your emailed votes must include your real name and/or forum handle or they will not be counted. (If any of you know "Kowboy" or "Reek Havok", please have them contact me.) Names and email addresses will be kept strictly confidential. This requirement is merely to help assure that the voting is kept above-board.